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Re: [WestMichiganHams] Re: CW Net?

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  • Jason Blakley
    Probably because not all of us have 6 capabilities. I for one only have 10. I think the idea started with 10 in mind because propagation is ever so slowly
    Message 1 of 16 , Nov 29, 2010
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      Probably because not all of us have 6 capabilities. I for one only have 10. I think the idea started with 10 in mind because propagation is ever so slowly improving, and a 10 rig can be acquired relatively cheaply. For a new ham the reduced startup cost can be all the difference in the world. I know some hf rigs include 6 but there are a lot of them that don't, and I don't think a cw or ssb capable 6m rig is nearly as cheap as a 10. 

      Just my 2c

      --
      Jason
      _._   ..   ...._   ..._   .._   _ _ _

       

      Sent from my iPod Touch

      On Nov 29, 2010, at 4:43 PM, Joe Veldhuis <kd8atu@...> wrote:

       

      Why isn't 6M being considered? That would be the best choice for local ops.

      -Joe, N8FQ

      On Mon, 29 Nov 2010 18:04:53 -0000
      "Jim" <jrheyl@...> wrote:

      >
      >
      >
      > Hey Bill,
      >
      > Yeah, our experience on 10M was not so great... We figured we have a choice of 10M, 15M, 40M and 80M frequencies to include all license classes
      >
      > I wonder, would an NVIS type of antenna setup on 40M would yield a reliable local circuit without requiring stringing a lot of wire? NVIS is supposed to have very good short-range coverage out to several hundred miles from the station QTH, and I think 40M is usually below the MUF.
      >
      > Your comments and suggestions are indeed welcome.
      >
      > Jim

    • NA8M
      Joe: Yes, indeed, why not consider 6m? I dunno. I don t play there. But I ll surely give it consideration. That s why I asked. Thanks!! Bill, NA8M
      Message 2 of 16 , Nov 29, 2010
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        Joe:

        Yes, indeed, why not consider 6m? I dunno. I don't play there. But I'll surely give it consideration. That's why I asked. Thanks!!

        Bill, NA8M

        --- In WestMichiganHams@yahoogroups.com, Joe Veldhuis <kd8atu@...> wrote:
        >
        > Why isn't 6M being considered? That would be the best choice for local ops.
        >
        > -Joe, N8FQ
        >
      • Patrick
        Good point Joe!.........Patrick KI8UM
        Message 3 of 16 , Nov 29, 2010
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          Good point Joe!.........Patrick KI8UM

          On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 4:43 PM, Joe Veldhuis <kd8atu@...> wrote:
           

          Why isn't 6M being considered? That would be the best choice for local ops.

          -Joe, N8FQ

          On Mon, 29 Nov 2010 18:04:53 -0000
          "Jim" <jrheyl@...> wrote:

          >
          >
          >
          > Hey Bill,
          >
          > Yeah, our experience on 10M was not so great... We figured we have a choice of 10M, 15M, 40M and 80M frequencies to include all license classes
          >
          > I wonder, would an NVIS type of antenna setup on 40M would yield a reliable local circuit without requiring stringing a lot of wire? NVIS is supposed to have very good short-range coverage out to several hundred miles from the station QTH, and I think 40M is usually below the MUF.
          >
          > Your comments and suggestions are indeed welcome.
          >
          > Jim


        • Mark
          If you check the critical frequency you will find that 40 is too high for the conditons we have been having. 80 and 160 are our best choices right now for
          Message 4 of 16 , Nov 29, 2010
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            If you check the critical frequency you will find that 40 is too high for the conditons we have been having.  80 and 160 are our best choices right now for NVIS.  As I type this the critcal frequency for Michigan is 4 MHz.
             
             
            73
             
            Mark K8MHZ
             
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Jim
            Sent: Monday, November 29, 2010 1:04 PM
            Subject: [WestMichiganHams] Re: CW Net?

             



            Hey Bill,

            Yeah, our experience on 10M was not so great... We figured we have a choice of 10M, 15M, 40M and 80M frequencies to include all license classes

            I wonder, would an NVIS type of antenna setup on 40M would yield a reliable local circuit without requiring stringing a lot of wire? NVIS is supposed to have very good short-range coverage out to several hundred miles from the station QTH, and I think 40M is usually below the MUF.

            Your comments and suggestions are indeed welcome.

            Jim

            --- In WestMichiganHams@yahoogroups.com, "NA8M" <bill_fries@...> wrote:
            >
            > Jim:
            >
            > Thank you for your prompt reply. As you imply in your reply, we are, indeed, beginning to investigate doing a slow CW net from the Muskegon area.
            >
            > I'm sorry to hear that things changed with your net in Holland. Perhaps we can encourage participation from all along the Lake shore.
            >
            > I think you are saying that ten meters isn't so great for a net? Forty meters or eighty instead? We would probably like to encourage the Technicians as well as the other hams. These three bands (10, 40, 80) offer CW privileges for all hams.
            >
            > Any net should probably do some study from the areas, using dipole antennas, low power, and the various times.
            >
            > Your thoughts or observations are encouraged.
            >
            > Bill, NA8M
            >
            >
            >
            > > Hi Bill,
            > >
            > > You are correct, at the present time there is no Holland CW. We had very sparse participation and WD8NHA Mike, who generously volunteered to be our Net Control station, had a change in his work schedule that caused conflicts with the Net. We also found more than a few propagation challenges on our selected 10M frequency.
            > >
            > > So, we decided to suspend the net and are scratching our heads and trying to come up a new frequency, day and time that may accommodate more participants. We still think that a slow speed CW Net, well really a Roundtable format, would be welcome and encourage CW development.
            > >
            > > So, we would welcome any suggestions or 'votes' for the best day, time and frequency to meet and play with CW.
            > >
            > > N8QMD, Jim
            > >
            > >
            >
            > > > All:
            > > >
            > > > Why is there no mention of a slow CW net on the Holland ARC's web site? Did it fold? Why? I was looking at their calendar pages.
            > > >
            > > > Thanks, in advance, for any info.
            > > >
            > > > Bill, NA8M
            > > >
            > >
            >

          • Al Pepping
            OK, when you talk CW, I must confess my creative juices begin to flow...,.. so here s my take on the CW net. Anyone who disagrees with me can pick a frequency
            Message 5 of 16 , Nov 29, 2010
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              Click Me!
              OK, when you talk CW, I must confess my creative juices begin to flow...,...so here's my take on the CW net.  Anyone who disagrees with me can pick a frequency and we will discuss pros and cons.....my only requirement is 35 WPM or better...
               
              So here goes..
               
              1. Any freq above 10 meters is going to require an all mode rig........
              2. Any freq above 10 meters is going to require antenna polarization to be taken into account .
              3. Any freq BELOW 40 meters is going to  "go long" at night, and you can forget a net on any day or night when there is  a       CW contest going.    That's will  take care of just about any weekend, for those who think CW is "dead".... Believe me brothers and sisters......IT AIN"T
              4. Unless you are QRO ( high power) on 80 or 160, it just ain't gonna happen folks.....
               
              So enough digressing on what not to do, let's consider a more plausible option..........30 meters.
               
              First off it's a digital only band plan here in the USA ( yes....CW is a digital mode !!!)  I have copied beacons on 10 mHz from hams running as little as 1/10 of a watt using a ground plane from the East coast to the Pacific.   I have also worked stations all over the world with 10 watts or less, using an dipole antenna.  BUT I have never checked this band out for "local" conditions. 
               
              The only "drawback" is you have to be licensed as a general class or above to  operate there.  I'm making an assumption......and you know what assumptions mean...is that members of a group who wants to form a slow code CW group are already  licensed at general class or above.  If you're there, cool...if not, let's get there.!!!!  No excuses for not upgrading !!!
               
               
              So here's what we need to do..
              , a propagation study.   Since beacons are allowed on 30 meters, we need to put up a low power beacon ( lets be conservative and start at 1 watt)
              Then everyone in our area can tune into the beacons freq day or night, and send signal reports via email to me and determine if this band supports local communication....Remember 30 meters is between 40 and 20 meters......Will it act as a happy in between medium or will it take on other properties.....This is what will be needed to investigate........I don't know, never tried it, so  let's make this a propagation investigation/study.   Ahhhhhh the FUN part of ham radio !!
               
              Some 15 years ago I bought a brand new MFJ CW 5 watt transceiver for 30 meters....It's still brand new in the box.    Lets see here....a currently unused 50 solar panel and deep cycle marine battery, 30 meter vertical dipole hung between a couple trees way out back, one transceiver and a Communication Concepts DB9 repeater Id'er that ain't being used, and behold.....we have a beacon station.......Now to select a frequency, put the package in  a weather proof enclosure, turn it on and wait for YOU to send me reception reports.   What say guys????  I ain't gonna go thru all the effort to put this thing on the air if no one is interested.......I'll be waiting for your reply..................KV8X
               
               
              -------Original Message-------
               
              From: NA8M
              Date: 11/29/2010 5:40:06 PM
              Subject: [WestMichiganHams] Re: CW Net?
               
               

              Joe:

              Yes, indeed, why not consider 6m? I dunno. I don't play there. But I'll surely give it consideration. That's why I asked. Thanks!!

              Bill, NA8M

              --- In WestMichiganHams@yahoogroups.com, Joe Veldhuis <kd8atu@...> wrote:
              >
              > Why isn't 6M being considered? That would be the best choice for local ops.
              >
              > -Joe, N8FQ
              >

               
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            • NA8M
              Al: Thanks for your considered opinions, observations, and generous offer. We should pursue these suggestions. First, CW is certainly viable and a handy tool.
              Message 6 of 16 , Nov 30, 2010
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                Al:

                Thanks for your considered opinions, observations, and generous offer. We should pursue these suggestions.

                First, CW is certainly viable and a handy tool. That's why we need to learn this "language" better.

                Doing this net on the WARC bands is a wonderful idea. There isn't the competition. Especially on a contest weekend.

                The NCDXA, I think, has a world wide beacon network. And I think there are beacon frequencies in all bands. Ten is especially popular with beacons. I think there's a ham with a beacon on ten from Fremont. I don't know all the local hams and this guy isn't active, from my perspective, but he does have a beacon running all the time. And, a few years back, the hams in Holland were discussing beacon construction and deployment. Maybe there are hams around here who would deploy their own beacons for a propagation study.

                Asking hams to upgrade before getting on a CW net is a worthy and attainable goal. Most of the CW on the bands is on HF.

                We might also seek out the nets that are already being run on the bands. It's hard to justify a new venture that duplicates another group's work. Or might even conflict.

                My DX elmer, a wise CW operator, said to have a CW QSO a day with the apple keeping the doctor away. A net a single night a week won't cut it. And the ARRL has a very long and distinguished history of transmitting CW practice at all speeds. I know, it's not the same as a QSO. It is a start, though.

                I, for one, will give this more thought and conversation. It is wonderful that maybe we have enough hams interested in CW to generate the support and participation to make this happen.

                Thank you.

                Bill, NA8M
              • Jason Blakley
                Probably because not all of us have 6 capabilities. I for one only have 10m. I think the idea started with 10 in mind because propagation is ever so slowly
                Message 7 of 16 , Nov 30, 2010
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                  Probably because not all of us have 6 capabilities. I for one only have 10m. I think the idea started with 10 in mind because propagation is ever so slowly improving, and a 10 rig can be acquired relatively cheaply. For a new ham the reduced startup cost can be all the difference in the world. I know some hf rigs include 6 but there are still a lot of them that don't, and I don't think a cw or ssb capable 6m rig is nearly as cheap as a 10. 

                  Just my 2c

                  --
                  Jason
                  _._   ..   ...._   ..._   .._   _ _ _

                   

                  Sent from my iPod Touch


                  On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 4:43 PM, Joe Veldhuis <kd8atu@...> wrote:
                   

                  Why isn't 6M being considered? That would be the best choice for local ops.

                  -Joe, N8FQ



                  On Mon, 29 Nov 2010 18:04:53 -0000
                  "Jim" <jrheyl@...> wrote:

                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Hey Bill,
                  >
                  > Yeah, our experience on 10M was not so great... We figured we have a choice of 10M, 15M, 40M and 80M frequencies to include all license classes
                  >
                  > I wonder, would an NVIS type of antenna setup on 40M would yield a reliable local circuit without requiring stringing a lot of wire? NVIS is supposed to have very good short-range coverage out to several hundred miles from the station QTH, and I think 40M is usually below the MUF.
                  >
                  > Your comments and suggestions are indeed welcome.
                  >
                  > Jim

                • NA8M
                  All: While surfing the net (do we still surf?) I m reminded of Fists. They are folks who encourage CW. They even have nets which are designed to give you
                  Message 8 of 16 , Dec 1, 2010
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                    All:

                    While surfing the 'net (do we still surf?) I'm reminded of Fists. They are folks who encourage CW. They even have nets which are designed to give you some practice. And don't forget their code buddy program. Good stuff.

                    Bill, NA8M
                  • Todd Sprinkmann
                    Hi Bill and the CW ers, Glad you ve got something going on CW every week. Hope it gets legs and takes off -- I ll look forward to updates. I don t have any
                    Message 9 of 16 , Dec 8, 2010
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                      Hi Bill and the CW'ers,

                      Glad you've got something going on CW every week. Hope it
                      gets legs and takes off -- I'll look forward to updates.

                      I don't have any HF gear, but all the same, I'm curious about
                      something. Maybe you can clarify... You say this is a 10m net,
                      but then announce a freq. of 10.058 +/- QRM. What's the scoop?

                      Good luck, 73,
                      Todd KC9BQA

                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: "NA8M" <bill_fries@...>
                      To: <WestMichiganHams@yahoogroups.com>
                      Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 6:27 AM
                      Subject: [WestMichiganHams] Re: CW Net?


                      We're on! The ten meter slow code CW net is a go. Meet us Wednesday
                      evenings, eight o'clock pm local time on 10.058 mHz +/- QRM. Kirk,
                      W8GXT will run the net. Check-ins will swap rst and name the first go
                      through. Then we can rag chew.

                      Fire Up!

                      Bill, NA8M




                      --------------------------------------------------------------------------------



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                      01:34:00
                    • Mark
                      Bill made a typo.... He meant 28.058 Ya think he might be spending a little too much time on 30m ? ... 73 de K8MHZ ... From: Todd Sprinkmann To:
                      Message 10 of 16 , Dec 8, 2010
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                        Bill made a typo....
                         
                        He meant 28.058
                         
                        Ya' think he might be spending a little too much time on 30m ?
                         
                        :)
                         
                        73 de K8MHZ
                         
                        ----- Original Message -----
                        Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 9:43 AM
                        Subject: Re: [WestMichiganHams] Re: CW Net?

                         

                        Hi Bill and the CW'ers,

                        Glad you've got something going on CW every week. Hope it
                        gets legs and takes off -- I'll look forward to updates.

                        I don't have any HF gear, but all the same, I'm curious about
                        something. Maybe you can clarify... You say this is a 10m net,
                        but then announce a freq. of 10.058 +/- QRM. What's the scoop?

                        Good luck, 73,
                        Todd KC9BQA

                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: "NA8M" <bill_fries@...>
                        To: <WestMichiganHams@yahoogroups.com>
                        Sent: Wednesday, December 08, 2010 6:27 AM
                        Subject: [WestMichiganHams] Re: CW Net?

                        We're on! The ten meter slow code CW net is a go. Meet us Wednesday
                        evenings, eight o'clock pm local time on 10.058 mHz +/- QRM. Kirk,
                        W8GXT will run the net. Check-ins will swap rst and name the first go
                        through. Then we can rag chew.

                        Fire Up!

                        Bill, NA8M

                        ----------------------------------------------------------

                        No virus found in this incoming message.
                        Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
                        Version: 9.0.872 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3302 - Release Date: 12/07/10
                        01:34:00

                      • NA8M
                        Oops! Yes, the frequency is 28.058 on ten meters. The net won t start until Next week, Dec. 15. We re working through the net s details. Once the details
                        Message 11 of 16 , Dec 8, 2010
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                          Oops! Yes, the frequency is 28.058 on ten meters.

                          The net won't start until Next week, Dec. 15. We're working through the net's details. Once the details are finalized you'll see a post. Basically you'll learn how the net will be run and what the QSOs looks like. That way you can follow along with the CW.

                          Next week!

                          Bill, NA8M
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