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Re: [WestMichiganHams] Re: USE OF COMMERCIAL EQUIPMENT

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  • Andrew Young
    CONSTRUCTING and SELLING is different than USING. If you modify a commercial amplifier from another service for Amateur use, then you re OK. You re right- you
    Message 1 of 13 , Nov 30, 2006
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      CONSTRUCTING and SELLING is different than USING.  If you modify a commercial amplifier from another service for Amateur use, then you're OK.
       
      You're right- you can't build and sell them commercially without certification.
       
       
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 7:11 PM
      Subject: [WestMichiganHams] Re: USE OF COMMERCIAL EQUIPMENT

      Let me get this straight... The Motrac and Motran and similar GE
      repeaters which are in wide use are illegal? Or the 100 or so
      Motorola VHF police radios which I got from Motorola in Atlanta and
      sold, at cost, to folks during the 70's and early 80's? I personally
      used several of these for at least a dozen years. They're not type
      accepted for Amateur Radio use. Gee, I didn't realize I, and 100's of
      my colleagues were violating the FCC rules, and many repeater groups
      continue to violate these rules.

      Methinks there must be another part of the regs which covers these
      kinds of uses.

      I do know the converse is illegal - i.e. it's not permissable to use
      Ham Gear for commercial uses, either home brew or commercially made,
      even though I know it has been done.

      73 de n8xx Hg

      --- In WestMichiganHams@ yahoogroups. com, <k8mhz@...> wrote:
      >
      > "We do not need type-accepted (FCC Certified) equipment on our
      > bands."
      >
      > Yes we do. No amplifier that operates below 144 MHz may be
      constructed by a non-amateur without certification from the FCC (97.315)
      >
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: k8mhz@...
      > To: WestMichiganHams@ yahoogroups. com
      > Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 15:42
      > Subject: Re: [WestMichiganHams] USE OF COMMERCIAL EQUIPMENT
      >
      > Oh, hey, by the way I got an answer from the FCC about using cell
      > phones as inputs for an ACU repeater:
      >
      > Quote
      >
      > I don't think there's a problem. The repeater is transmitting only
      on Amateur frequencies. It's retransmitting audio, and the source
      doesn't matter.


      No virus found in this incoming message.
      Checked by AVG Free Edition.
      Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.2/559 - Release Date: 11/30/2006
    • k8mhz@k8mhz.com
      Hank, First, only amps working *below* 144 MHz need to be certified. Also, it s doesn t say what certification is needed.... ... From: Hank Greeb To:
      Message 2 of 13 , Dec 1, 2006
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        Hank,
         
        First, only amps working *below* 144 MHz need to be certified.  Also, it's doesn't say what certification is needed....
         
         
        ----- Original Message -----
        Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 19:11
        Subject: [WestMichiganHams] Re: USE OF COMMERCIAL EQUIPMENT

        Let me get this straight... The Motrac and Motran and similar GE
        repeaters which are in wide use are illegal? Or the 100 or so
        Motorola VHF police radios which I got from Motorola in Atlanta and
        sold, at cost, to folks during the 70's and early 80's? I personally
        used several of these for at least a dozen years. They're not type
        accepted for Amateur Radio use. Gee, I didn't realize I, and 100's of
        my colleagues were violating the FCC rules, and many repeater groups
        continue to violate these rules.

        Methinks there must be another part of the regs which covers these
        kinds of uses.

        I do know the converse is illegal - i.e. it's not permissable to use
        Ham Gear for commercial uses, either home brew or commercially made,
        even though I know it has been done.

        73 de n8xx Hg

        --- In WestMichiganHams@ yahoogroups. com, <k8mhz@...> wrote:
        >
        > "We do not need type-accepted (FCC Certified) equipment on our
        > bands."
        >
        > Yes we do. No amplifier that operates below 144 MHz may be
        constructed by a non-amateur without certification from the FCC (97.315)
        >
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: k8mhz@...
        > To: WestMichiganHams@ yahoogroups. com
        > Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 15:42
        > Subject: Re: [WestMichiganHams] USE OF COMMERCIAL EQUIPMENT
        >
        > Oh, hey, by the way I got an answer from the FCC about using cell
        > phones as inputs for an ACU repeater:
        >
        > Quote
        >
        > I don't think there's a problem. The repeater is transmitting only
        on Amateur frequencies. It's retransmitting audio, and the source
        doesn't matter.


        No virus found in this incoming message.
        Checked by AVG Free Edition.
        Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.2/559 - Release Date: 11/30/2006
      • k8mhz@k8mhz.com
        *And* you have to be a ham..... Non-hams can t legally to it. ... From: Andrew Young To: WestMichiganHams@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006
        Message 3 of 13 , Dec 1, 2006
        • 0 Attachment
          *And* you have to be a ham.....
           
          Non-hams can't legally to it.
           
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 21:50
          Subject: Re: [WestMichiganHams] Re: USE OF COMMERCIAL EQUIPMENT

          CONSTRUCTING and SELLING is different than USING.  If you modify a commercial amplifier from another service for Amateur use, then you're OK.
           
          You're right- you can't build and sell them commercially without certification.
           
           
          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 7:11 PM
          Subject: [WestMichiganHams] Re: USE OF COMMERCIAL EQUIPMENT

          Let me get this straight... The Motrac and Motran and similar GE
          repeaters which are in wide use are illegal? Or the 100 or so
          Motorola VHF police radios which I got from Motorola in Atlanta and
          sold, at cost, to folks during the 70's and early 80's? I personally
          used several of these for at least a dozen years. They're not type
          accepted for Amateur Radio use. Gee, I didn't realize I, and 100's of
          my colleagues were violating the FCC rules, and many repeater groups
          continue to violate these rules.

          Methinks there must be another part of the regs which covers these
          kinds of uses.

          I do know the converse is illegal - i.e. it's not permissable to use
          Ham Gear for commercial uses, either home brew or commercially made,
          even though I know it has been done.

          73 de n8xx Hg

          --- In WestMichiganHams@ yahoogroups. com, <k8mhz@...> wrote:
          >
          > "We do not need type-accepted (FCC Certified) equipment on our
          > bands."
          >
          > Yes we do. No amplifier that operates below 144 MHz may be
          constructed by a non-amateur without certification from the FCC (97.315)
          >
          >
          > ----- Original Message -----
          > From: k8mhz@...
          > To: WestMichiganHams@ yahoogroups. com
          > Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 15:42
          > Subject: Re: [WestMichiganHams] USE OF COMMERCIAL EQUIPMENT
          >
          > Oh, hey, by the way I got an answer from the FCC about using cell
          > phones as inputs for an ACU repeater:
          >
          > Quote
          >
          > I don't think there's a problem. The repeater is transmitting only
          on Amateur frequencies. It's retransmitting audio, and the source
          doesn't matter.


          No virus found in this incoming message.
          Checked by AVG Free Edition.
          Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.2/559 - Release Date: 11/30/2006


          No virus found in this incoming message.
          Checked by AVG Free Edition.
          Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.2/559 - Release Date: 11/30/2006
        • k8mhz@k8mhz.com
          I guess it does say they have to be certified for amateur use if not made by an amateur. Here are the sections: §97.315 Certification of external RF power
          Message 4 of 13 , Dec 1, 2006
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            I guess it does say they have to be certified for amateur use if not made by an amateur.  Here are the sections:
             

            §97.315 Certification of external RF power amplifiers.

            (a) No more than 1 unit of 1 model of an external RF power amplifier capable of operation below 144 MHz may be constructed or modified during any calendar year by an amateur operator for use at a station without a grant of certification. No amplifier capable of operation below 144 MHz may be constructed or modified by a non-amateur operator without a grant of certification from the FCC.

            (b) Any external RF power amplifier or external RF power amplifier kit (see §2.815 of the FCC Rules), manufactured, imported or modified for use in a station or attached at any station must be certificated for use in the amateur service in accordance with Subpart J of Part 2 of the FCC Rules. This requirement does not apply if one or more of the following conditions are met:

            (1) The amplifier is not capable of operation on frequencies below 144 MHz. For the purpose of this part, an amplifier will be deemed to be incapable of operation below 144 MHz if it is not capable of being easily modified to increase its amplification characteristics below 120 MHz and either:

            (i) The mean output power of the amplifier decreases, as frequency decreases from 144 MHz, to a point where 0 dB or less gain is exhibited at 120 MHz; or

            (ii) The amplifier is not capable of amplifying signals below 120 MHz even for brief periods without sustaining permanent damage to its amplification circuitry.

            (2) The amplifier was manufactured before April 28, 1978, and has been issued a marketing waiver by the FCC, or the amplifier was purchased before April 28, 1978, by an amateur operator for use at that amateur operator’s station.

            (3) The amplifier was:

            (i) Constructed by the licensee, not from an external RF power amplifier kit, for use at the licensee’s station; or

            (ii) Modified by the licensee for use at the licensee’s station.

            (4) The amplifier is sold by an amateur operator to another amateur operator or to a dealer.

            (5) The amplifier is purchased in used condition by an equipment dealer from an amateur operator and the amplifier is further sold to another amateur operator for use at that operator’s station.

            (c) Any external RF power amplifier appearing in the Commission’s database as certificated for use in the amateur service may be marketed for use in the amateur service.

            §97.317 Standards for certification of external RF power amplifiers.

            (a) To receive a grant of certification, the amplifier must satisfy the spurious emission standards of §97.307(d) or (e) of this Part, as applicable, when the amplifier is:

            (1) Operated at its full output power;

            (2) Placed in the “standby” or “off” positions, but still connected to the transmitter; and

            (3) Driven with at least 50 W mean RF input power (unless higher drive level is specified).

            (b) To receive a grant of certification, the amplifier must not be capable of operation on any frequency or frequencies between 24 MHz and
            35 MHz. The amplifier will be deemed incapable of such
            operation if it:

            (1) Exhibits no more than 6 dB gain between 24 MHz and 26 MHz and between 28 MHz and 35 MHz. (This gain will be determined by the ratio of the input RF driving signal (mean power measurement) to the mean RF output power of the amplifier); and

            (2) Exhibits no amplification (0 dB gain) between 26 MHz and
            28 MHz.

            (c) Certification may be denied when denial would prevent the use of these amplifiers in services other than the amateur service. The following features will result in dismissal or denial of an application for certification:

            (1) Any accessible wiring which, when altered, would permit operation of the amplifier in a manner contrary to the FCC Rules;

            (2) Circuit boards or similar circuitry to facilitate the addition of components to change the amplifier’s operating characteristics in a manner contrary to the FCC Rules;

            (3) Instructions for operation or modification of the amplifier in a manner contrary to the FCC Rules;

            (4) Any internal or external controls or adjustments to facilitate operation of the amplifier in a manner contrary to the FCC Rules;

            (5) Any internal RF sensing circuitry or any external switch, the purpose of which is to place the amplifier in the transmit mode;

            (6) The incorporation of more gain in the amplifier than is necessary to operate in the amateur service; for purposes of this paragraph, the amplifier must:

            (i) Not be capable of achieving designed output power when driven with less than 50 W mean RF input power;

            (ii) Not be capable of amplifying the input RF driving signal by more than 15 dB, unless the amplifier has a designed transmitter power of less than 1.5 kW (in such a case, gain must be reduced by the same number of dB as the transmitter power relationship to 1.5 kW; This gain limitation is determined by the ratio of the input RF driving signal to the RF output power of the amplifier where both signals are expressed in peak envelope power or mean power);

            (iii) Not exhibit more gain than permitted by paragraph (c)(6)(ii) of this Section when driven by an RF input signal of less than 50 W mean power; and

            (iv) Be capable of sustained operation at its designed power level.

            (7) Any attenuation in the input of the amplifier which, when removed or modified, would permit the amplifier to function at its designed transmitter power when driven by an RF frequency input signal of less than 50 W mean power; or

            (8) Any other features designed to facilitate operation in a telecommunication service other than the Amateur Radio Services, such as the Citizens Band (CB) Radio Service.

            ----- Original Message -----
            Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 19:11
            Subject: [WestMichiganHams] Re: USE OF COMMERCIAL EQUIPMENT

            Let me get this straight... The Motrac and Motran and similar GE
            repeaters which are in wide use are illegal? Or the 100 or so
            Motorola VHF police radios which I got from Motorola in Atlanta and
            sold, at cost, to folks during the 70's and early 80's? I personally
            used several of these for at least a dozen years. They're not type
            accepted for Amateur Radio use. Gee, I didn't realize I, and 100's of
            my colleagues were violating the FCC rules, and many repeater groups
            continue to violate these rules.

            Methinks there must be another part of the regs which covers these
            kinds of uses.

            I do know the converse is illegal - i.e. it's not permissable to use
            Ham Gear for commercial uses, either home brew or commercially made,
            even though I know it has been done.

            73 de n8xx Hg

            --- In WestMichiganHams@ yahoogroups. com, <k8mhz@...> wrote:
            >
            > "We do not need type-accepted (FCC Certified) equipment on our
            > bands."
            >
            > Yes we do. No amplifier that operates below 144 MHz may be
            constructed by a non-amateur without certification from the FCC (97.315)
            >
            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: k8mhz@...
            > To: WestMichiganHams@ yahoogroups. com
            > Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 15:42
            > Subject: Re: [WestMichiganHams] USE OF COMMERCIAL EQUIPMENT
            >
            > Oh, hey, by the way I got an answer from the FCC about using cell
            > phones as inputs for an ACU repeater:
            >
            > Quote
            >
            > I don't think there's a problem. The repeater is transmitting only
            on Amateur frequencies. It's retransmitting audio, and the source
            doesn't matter.


            No virus found in this incoming message.
            Checked by AVG Free Edition.
            Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.2/559 - Release Date: 11/30/2006
          • Alan NV8A
            As I read it, the following exception to the certification requirement 3) The amplifier was: ... (ii) Modified by the licensee for use at the licensee s
            Message 5 of 13 , Dec 1, 2006
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              As I read it, the following exception to the certification requirement

              "3) The amplifier was:

              ...

              (ii) Modified by the licensee for use at the licensee's station."

              seems to mean that as long as the licensee changes something (what is
              not specified), it can be used in the amateur service even if it was a
              commercial device.

              73

              Alan NV8A


              On 12/01/06 09:26 am k8mhz@... wrote:

              > I guess it does say they have to be certified for amateur use if not made by an amateur. Here are the sections:
              >
              > §97.315 Certification of external RF power amplifiers.
              >
              > (a) No more than 1 unit of 1 model of an external RF power amplifier capable of operation below 144 MHz may be constructed or modified during any calendar year by an amateur operator for use at a station without a grant of certification. No amplifier capable of operation below 144 MHz may be constructed or modified by a non-amateur operator without a grant of certification from the FCC.
              >
              > (b) Any external RF power amplifier or external RF power amplifier kit (see §2.815 of the FCC Rules), manufactured, imported or modified for use in a station or attached at any station must be certificated for use in the amateur service in accordance with Subpart J of Part 2 of the FCC Rules. This requirement does not apply if one or more of the following conditions are met:
              >
              > (1) The amplifier is not capable of operation on frequencies below 144 MHz. For the purpose of this part, an amplifier will be deemed to be incapable of operation below 144 MHz if it is not capable of being easily modified to increase its amplification characteristics below 120 MHz and either:
              >
              > (i) The mean output power of the amplifier decreases, as frequency decreases from 144 MHz, to a point where 0 dB or less gain is exhibited at 120 MHz; or
              >
              > (ii) The amplifier is not capable of amplifying signals below 120 MHz even for brief periods without sustaining permanent damage to its amplification circuitry.
              >
              > (2) The amplifier was manufactured before April 28, 1978, and has been issued a marketing waiver by the FCC, or the amplifier was purchased before April 28, 1978, by an amateur operator for use at that amateur operator's station.
              >
              > (3) The amplifier was:
              >
              > (i) Constructed by the licensee, not from an external RF power amplifier kit, for use at the licensee's station; or
              >
              > (ii) Modified by the licensee for use at the licensee's station.
              >
              > (4) The amplifier is sold by an amateur operator to another amateur operator or to a dealer.
              >
              > (5) The amplifier is purchased in used condition by an equipment dealer from an amateur operator and the amplifier is further sold to another amateur operator for use at that operator's station.
              >
              > (c) Any external RF power amplifier appearing in the Commission's database as certificated for use in the amateur service may be marketed for use in the amateur service.
              >
              > §97.317 Standards for certification of external RF power amplifiers.
              >
              > (a) To receive a grant of certification, the amplifier must satisfy the spurious emission standards of §97.307(d) or (e) of this Part, as applicable, when the amplifier is:
              >
              > (1) Operated at its full output power;
              >
              > (2) Placed in the "standby" or "off" positions, but still connected to the transmitter; and
              >
              > (3) Driven with at least 50 W mean RF input power (unless higher drive level is specified).
              >
              > (b) To receive a grant of certification, the amplifier must not be capable of operation on any frequency or frequencies between 24 MHz and
              > 35 MHz. The amplifier will be deemed incapable of such
              > operation if it:
              >
              > (1) Exhibits no more than 6 dB gain between 24 MHz and 26 MHz and between 28 MHz and 35 MHz. (This gain will be determined by the ratio of the input RF driving signal (mean power measurement) to the mean RF output power of the amplifier); and
              >
              > (2) Exhibits no amplification (0 dB gain) between 26 MHz and
              > 28 MHz.
              >
              > (c) Certification may be denied when denial would prevent the use of these amplifiers in services other than the amateur service. The following features will result in dismissal or denial of an application for certification:
              >
              > (1) Any accessible wiring which, when altered, would permit operation of the amplifier in a manner contrary to the FCC Rules;
              >
              > (2) Circuit boards or similar circuitry to facilitate the addition of components to change the amplifier's operating characteristics in a manner contrary to the FCC Rules;
              >
              > (3) Instructions for operation or modification of the amplifier in a manner contrary to the FCC Rules;
              >
              > (4) Any internal or external controls or adjustments to facilitate operation of the amplifier in a manner contrary to the FCC Rules;
              >
              > (5) Any internal RF sensing circuitry or any external switch, the purpose of which is to place the amplifier in the transmit mode;
              >
              > (6) The incorporation of more gain in the amplifier than is necessary to operate in the amateur service; for purposes of this paragraph, the amplifier must:
              >
              > (i) Not be capable of achieving designed output power when driven with less than 50 W mean RF input power;
              >
              > (ii) Not be capable of amplifying the input RF driving signal by more than 15 dB, unless the amplifier has a designed transmitter power of less than 1.5 kW (in such a case, gain must be reduced by the same number of dB as the transmitter power relationship to 1.5 kW; This gain limitation is determined by the ratio of the input RF driving signal to the RF output power of the amplifier where both signals are expressed in peak envelope power or mean power);
              >
              > (iii) Not exhibit more gain than permitted by paragraph (c)(6)(ii) of this Section when driven by an RF input signal of less than 50 W mean power; and
              >
              > (iv) Be capable of sustained operation at its designed power level.
              >
              > (7) Any attenuation in the input of the amplifier which, when removed or modified, would permit the amplifier to function at its designed transmitter power when driven by an RF frequency input signal of less than 50 W mean power; or
              >
              > (8) Any other features designed to facilitate operation in a telecommunication service other than the Amateur Radio Services, such as the Citizens Band (CB) Radio Service.
            • Andrew Young
              The only thing I know of that is restricted in this manner is an external amplifier for HF. It is not really against Amateurs, but to prevent other services
              Message 6 of 13 , Dec 1, 2006
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                The only thing I know of that is restricted in this manner is an external amplifier for HF.  It is not really against Amateurs, but to prevent other services from using ours illegally or manufacturing them under the guise of Amateur Radio.
                 
                My original point was mostly directed at a recent question about using some cheap UHF radios someone found from China or somewhere.
                 
                 
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: Alan NV8A
                Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 1:48 PM
                Subject: Re: [WestMichiganHams] Re: USE OF COMMERCIAL EQUIPMENT

                As I read it, the following exception to the certification requirement

                "3) The amplifier was:

                ...

                (ii) Modified by the licensee for use at the licensee's station."

                seems to mean that as long as the licensee changes something (what is
                not specified), it can be used in the amateur service even if it was a
                commercial device.

                73

                Alan NV8A

                On 12/01/06 09:26 am k8mhz@k8mhz. com wrote:

                > I guess it does say they have to be certified for amateur use if not made by an amateur. Here are the sections:
                >
                > §97.315 Certification of external RF power amplifiers.
                >
                > (a) No more than 1 unit of 1 model of an external RF power amplifier capable of operation below 144 MHz may be constructed or modified during any calendar year by an amateur operator for use at a station without a grant of certification. No amplifier capable of operation below 144 MHz may be constructed or modified by a non-amateur operator without a grant of certification from the FCC.
                >
                > (b) Any external RF power amplifier or external RF power amplifier kit (see §2.815 of the FCC Rules), manufactured, imported or modified for use in a station or attached at any station must be certificated for use in the amateur service in accordance with Subpart J of Part 2 of the FCC Rules. This requirement does not apply if one or more of the following conditions are met:
                >
                > (1) The amplifier is not capable of operation on frequencies below 144 MHz. For the purpose of this part, an amplifier will be deemed to be incapable of operation below 144 MHz if it is not capable of being easily modified to increase its amplification characteristics below 120 MHz and either:
                >
                > (i) The mean output power of the amplifier decreases, as frequency decreases from 144 MHz, to a point where 0 dB or less gain is exhibited at 120 MHz; or
                >
                > (ii) The amplifier is not capable of amplifying signals below 120 MHz even for brief periods without sustaining permanent damage to its amplification circuitry.
                >
                > (2) The amplifier was manufactured before April 28, 1978, and has been issued a marketing waiver by the FCC, or the amplifier was purchased before April 28, 1978, by an amateur operator for use at that amateur operator's station.
                >
                > (3) The amplifier was:
                >
                > (i) Constructed by the licensee, not from an external RF power amplifier kit, for use at the licensee's station; or
                >
                > (ii) Modified by the licensee for use at the licensee's station.
                >
                > (4) The amplifier is sold by an amateur operator to another amateur operator or to a dealer.
                >
                > (5) The amplifier is purchased in used condition by an equipment dealer from an amateur operator and the amplifier is further sold to another amateur operator for use at that operator's station.
                >
                > (c) Any external RF power amplifier appearing in the Commission's database as certificated for use in the amateur service may be marketed for use in the amateur service.
                >
                > §97.317 Standards for certification of external RF power amplifiers.
                >
                > (a) To receive a grant of certification, the amplifier must satisfy the spurious emission standards of §97.307(d) or (e) of this Part, as applicable, when the amplifier is:
                >
                > (1) Operated at its full output power;
                >
                > (2) Placed in the "standby" or "off" positions, but still connected to the transmitter; and
                >
                > (3) Driven with at least 50 W mean RF input power (unless higher drive level is specified).
                >
                > (b) To receive a grant of certification, the amplifier must not be capable of operation on any frequency or frequencies between 24 MHz and
                > 35 MHz. The amplifier will be deemed incapable of such
                > operation if it:
                >
                > (1) Exhibits no more than 6 dB gain between 24 MHz and 26 MHz and between 28 MHz and 35 MHz. (This gain will be determined by the ratio of the input RF driving signal (mean power measurement) to the mean RF output power of the amplifier); and
                >
                > (2) Exhibits no amplification (0 dB gain) between 26 MHz and
                > 28 MHz.
                >
                > (c) Certification may be denied when denial would prevent the use of these amplifiers in services other than the amateur service. The following features will result in dismissal or denial of an application for certification:
                >
                > (1) Any accessible wiring which, when altered, would permit operation of the amplifier in a manner contrary to the FCC Rules;
                >
                > (2) Circuit boards or similar circuitry to facilitate the addition of components to change the amplifier's operating characteristics in a manner contrary to the FCC Rules;
                >
                > (3) Instructions for operation or modification of the amplifier in a manner contrary to the FCC Rules;
                >
                > (4) Any internal or external controls or adjustments to facilitate operation of the amplifier in a manner contrary to the FCC Rules;
                >
                > (5) Any internal RF sensing circuitry or any external switch, the purpose of which is to place the amplifier in the transmit mode;
                >
                > (6) The incorporation of more gain in the amplifier than is necessary to operate in the amateur service; for purposes of this paragraph, the amplifier must:
                >
                > (i) Not be capable of achieving designed output power when driven with less than 50 W mean RF input power;
                >
                > (ii) Not be capable of amplifying the input RF driving signal by more than 15 dB, unless the amplifier has a designed transmitter power of less than 1.5 kW (in such a case, gain must be reduced by the same number of dB as the transmitter power relationship to 1.5 kW; This gain limitation is determined by the ratio of the input RF driving signal to the RF output power of the amplifier where both signals are expressed in peak envelope power or mean power);
                >
                > (iii) Not exhibit more gain than permitted by paragraph (c)(6)(ii) of this Section when driven by an RF input signal of less than 50 W mean power; and
                >
                > (iv) Be capable of sustained operation at its designed power level.
                >
                > (7) Any attenuation in the input of the amplifier which, when removed or modified, would permit the amplifier to function at its designed transmitter power when driven by an RF frequency input signal of less than 50 W mean power; or
                >
                > (8) Any other features designed to facilitate operation in a telecommunication service other than the Amateur Radio Services, such as the Citizens Band (CB) Radio Service.


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                Checked by AVG Free Edition.
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              • k8mhz@k8mhz.com
                Unless specifically excluded by Part 97 we can use anything that transmits on our band. We MUST be certain that rig does not violate other rules and are held
                Message 7 of 13 , Dec 1, 2006
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                  Unless specifically excluded by Part 97 we can use anything that transmits on our band.  We MUST be certain that rig does not violate other rules and are held accountable.  Bandwidth and spurious signals are one concern.   Some of the VHF radios sold on eBay which are manufactured in China are NOT legal to own because they are able to transmit on public service frequencies.  The ones I saw were TX from 138 - 174 MHz.  They are not legal to own in the US.  The UHF rigs transmitted on FRS/GMRS as well as the 440 amateur band and are not type accepted for FRS/GMRS use.  Possesion of the UHF rigs is questionable but use on FRS/GMRS is not legal in the US.
                   
                  Even modification of an amateur radio is illegal if it enables the ability to transmit on public service frequencies.  A while ago a ham was fined by the FCC for using his HT to help an injured cop.  The ham used his opened up 2 meter rig to call dispatch for help.  The FCC fined him 8 grand and took his rig.  Why?  We can use any form of communication needed in an emergency, right?  Correct.  He was not fined for that.  He was fined for making the modification which was done when there was no emergency.  Having radios that can transmit on police frequencies is a big no-no unless you are a cop.
                   
                  Having a marine station on land is also a no-no.  It's OK to listen, but having a 2-way marine radio in a vehicle or as a fixed station, with just a couple exceptions, is illegal.  That is why the microphones for the marine radios need to be removed in our EmComm installations.  If an emergency arises they can be made useable *after the onset* of the emergency if they are the only means of communications quickly available.
                   
                  Amps that can be used on 11 meters are also illegal and are also sold on the Internet.  Very slowly the FCC is clamping down, but they are.  Another front they are now hitting is having a correct mailing address.  If they send you a letter and it comes back undeliverable you license gets suspended.  You won't know your license is suspended because you didn't get the mail.  If you then transmit on a suspended license you get a hefty fine.
                   
                  It's hard to keep track of what is legal and what is not when the FCC is so slack on their enforcement and considerable numbers of people get away with breaking the rules.
                   
                   
                  ----- Original Message -----

                  The only thing I know of that is restricted in this manner is an external amplifier for HF.  It is not really against Amateurs, but to prevent other services from using ours illegally or manufacturing them under the guise of Amateur Radio.
                   
                  My original point was mostly directed at a recent question about using some cheap UHF radios someone found from China or somewhere.
                   
                   
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