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Re: [WestKingdomEQ] Rights and Responsibilities for Horse Owners and RIders: PLEASE READ

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  • Henrik Olsgaard
    I think it might be better to not include either of these wordings under the rights of a rider, about availability or the level a horse may be that a rider
    Message 1 of 4 , Mar 17, 2003
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      I think it might be better to not include either of these wordings under the
      rights of a rider, about availability or the level a horse may be that a
      rider will be given to ride. It seems to be too much specificity that could
      cause a problem in interpretation and application.

      As I read the original line #2 , it seems to be indicating that a beginning
      or intermediate rider has the right to not be issued or required to ride a
      horse that is only suited for a higher level rider. I presume that was the
      intent , however it could also be interpreted otherwise as Collett suggests,
      and perhaps in even other ways too.

      I think Collett's #2 means something entirely different, and I think trying
      to codify who gets to ride and what level a horse is that will be made
      available, etc. is likely to be awfully complicated at times.
      This would be complicated even more for a horse that isn't behaving in it's
      usual manner and decides to get ornery enough that only an advanced rider
      should be allowed to ride it , even though it had been suitable for
      beginners earlier in the day or event.

      As I see it, horse and rider combinations should be checked at each event
      for compatability , and if a horse and rider don't work safely together then
      the rider should not ride that horse that day , period!
      Stating rights more than that seem unwise, especially if any specific grant
      or guarantee is used as a lever to cause an unsafe condition to develop or
      continue with a resulting injury or destruction of property (or the threat
      of, or perception of eminent injury or destruction of property ).

      Henrik of Havn










      >From: Autumn Cardone <autumn_cardone@...>
      >Reply-To: autumn_cardone@...
      >To: dcamville <dcamville@...>, gizzell@...
      >CC: WestKingdomEQ@yahoogroups.com
      >Subject: Re: [WestKingdomEQ] Rights and Responsibilities for Horse Owners
      >and RIders: PLEASE READ
      >Date: Sun, 16 Mar 2003 22:38:21 -0800
      >
      >This is a nice document. I can see it being useful to us for a long time
      >in the future.
      >
      >I do have a question, though:
      >
      >Horse RIDER Rights and Responsibilities
      >
      >RIGHTS:
      >
      >2) To be provided with a mount appropriate to your riding level,
      >
      >
      >I realize that this is meant for March Crown an Mists Spring Coronet,
      >but...
      >
      >This kind of sounds like we promise that we will always have the perfect
      >horse available for anyone who would like to ride, when they want it (i.e.
      >what if there are no beginning/intermediate/advanced horses available at
      >one of the events, or there are no horses/loaner horses at an event, or
      >something happens -- horse goes lame, ... ). I am sure that this is not
      >really what you meant. Perhaps this one Rider Right should be rephrased.
      >For example something like:
      >
      > 2.) If there is a mount, appropriate to your riding level and skills,
      >available for loan,
      > and you have signed up during the sign up time, then a reasonable
      >effort will be
      > made to allow you to ride said mount during the activities you signed
      >up for.
      >
      >
      >I know, it's wordy, but...
      >
      >We also need to keep in mind that the SCA laws state that the SCA (and
      >those acting as representatives of the SCA) are not allowed to loan out
      >horses or equipment. The original statement looks like it is an official
      >declaration from the Kingdom/Principality promising to provide loaner
      >horses, rather than from the individuals who own the horses, who, through
      >their extreme generosity, are letting people borrow their horses to ride.
      >
      >
      >Hum... Perhaps more emphasis on the extreme generosity of those who are
      >loaning out their horses for others to ride would be appropriate, too...
      >:-) How about the following:
      >
      > We would like to thank those people who have gone to the extra effort to
      >bring horses
      > to this event to share with those who are interested in participating. It
      >is through
      > the extreme generosity of these horse owners that we are all able to
      >participate in
      > these equestrian activities. Please remember to thank the owners of the
      >horses you
      > work with. Your thanks may make the difference as to whether these horses
      >remain
      > available to be ridden by the populace at future events.
      >
      >
      >Just my two cents worth,
      >
      >-- Collett
      >
      >---------------------------------------------------
      >dcamville wrote:
      >
      > >Greetings...
      > >
      > >Viscountess Elisabeth de Champagne asked me to post the Rights and
      > >Responsibilities for Horse Owners and Riders which will be in effect
      > >at Crown and Coronet. Please use these standards when working with
      > >the horses. Take a momment to review this document to avoid any
      > >confusdion once the event begins. If yu hav ANY QUESTIONS please
      > >email her at gizzell@... or call her at 510-886-1526. You can
      > >DOWNLOAD a copy of this document (which is HIGHLY RECOMMENDED) from
      > >the Files section of the web group. Thanks! RdC
      > >
      > >Horse OWNERS' Rights and Responsibilities
      > >
      > >RIGHTS:
      > >1) To have a safe environment in which to participate and horse to be
      > >kept.
      > >2) To restrict who rides your horse and for how long.
      > >3) To have your horse treated with respect and kindness while at an
      > >event.
      > >4) To be able to ride your own mount.
      > >5) To expect whomever rides to have some horsemanship skills prior to
      > >riding.
      > >
      > >RESPONSIBILITIES:
      > >1) To make sure your horse has a clean, safe environment while at an
      > >event.
      > >2) To make sure your horse has enough food and water to last the
      > >duration of the event.
      > >3) To make sure those riding your horse have and are using the
      > >appropriate skills to handle the horse.
      > >4) To help set up and tear down authorization and games equipment
      > >(THIS IS A MUST).
      > >5) To have all the proper gear and equipment for activities and that
      > >the horse is prepared physically and mentally for all activities
      > >(THIS IS A MUST).
      > >
      > >Horse RIDER Rights and Responsibilities
      > >
      > >RIGHTS:
      > >
      > >1) To have a safe environment in which to participate.
      > >2)To be provided with a mount appropriate to your riding level,
      > >3) To be given special instruction if the mount has training or
      > >behaviors which differ from the norm.(Example: Special cues)
      > >4) To be given instruction on how to properly complete the
      > >authorization or competition course (not a riding lessoon) to be used.
      > >
      > >RESPONSIBILITIES:
      > >
      > >1)To make sure you are comfortable with the situation you will be
      > >facing. Your safety is your resposibility first and foremost.
      > >2) To make sure that you have some horsemanship skill is present,
      > >prior to riding in authorizations and games.
      > >3) To treat owner and mount with respect and kindness.
      > >4) To have any special gear needed for you to participate.
      > >5) To keep your temper if your horse is or seems uncooperative.
      > >6) To help set up and tear down games and authorization equipment
      > >(THIS IS A MUST).
      > >7) To have appropriate garb/ clothing on while participating in horse
      > >related activities.
      > >
      > >Please read this document carefully. If you have any questions please
      > >ask the marshal in Charge for clarification.
      > >
      > >Thank you!
      > >
      > >Lady ELisabeth, Viscountess de Camville
      > >Equstrian marsahl in Charge-march Crown
      > >Mists Equestrian Marshal
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >-------------------------------------------------
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      > >
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      > >
      > >Shortcut URL to this page:
      > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WestKingdomEQ/
      > >
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      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      >
      >


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    • tlwhyte17
      It seems to me like the answer is to go ahead and publish the Rights and Responsiblities for Owners handout, but to separate out the Rider s section and
      Message 2 of 4 , Mar 17, 2003
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        It seems to me like the answer is to go ahead and publish the Rights
        and Responsiblities for Owners handout, but to separate out the
        Rider's section and possibly get rid of it all together. Personally,
        I think the Rider Responsiblites part is OK, but I'm not comfortable
        with the potential implications of "Rights". Frankly, I think for
        riders without their own horses we are not talking about "rights" so
        much as we are talking about "privledges". I understand the point of
        trying to communicate our group's intention to run a safe event in
        accordance with the rules and regs of the SCA and mundane law, but to
        state this intention as stated *probably* makes us vulnerable to
        lawsuits (as per Henrik's post).

        My two cents,
        Genevieve
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