Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: Fwd: [SCA_KEO] Draft rewrite

Expand Messages
  • Else Hunrvogt
    ... review a ... I don t ... rules changes ... of time ... Revisions to ... do, ... I believe the Dec 1 deadline is for the version that will be submitted from
    Message 1 of 5 , Nov 30, 2006
      --- In WestKingdomEQ@yahoogroups.com, "Rachael Keish" <rachaelo@...>
      wrote:
      > With all due respect, one day is absolutely not enough time to peer
      review a
      > document that will have this kind of impacts to the EQ community.
      I don't
      > know what the huge rush is, but the BoD always prints proposed
      rules changes
      > in Kingdom newsletters, soliciting input for a _reasonable_ amount
      of time
      > (a month or so, I think?) before closing out the review period.
      Revisions to
      > our Society EQ manual, which are the basic rules that govern all we
      do,
      > should follow a similar protocol.

      I believe the Dec 1 deadline is for the version that will be
      submitted from the marshallate to the BOD. The BOD may still ask for
      comments on whatever version they get.

      In my experience giving the fighters (in this case the riders) a
      chance to comment on proposed rules prior to submission to the BOD is
      novel. If you have time to take advantage of it with constructive
      comments (it's only ten pages of rules, the rest is explanation),
      more power to you. If you don't, than you are no worse off than if
      Gwen hadn't sent them out at all.

      I think Yaasmina has been very open in the process bringing in riders
      and marshals from across the known world in addition to the KEOs.
      The current set as written allows for a great deal of flexibilty and
      tailoring to suit the needs of the individual kingdoms and the
      individual.



      Else
    • dkarp@juno.com
      The rewrite committee, of which I am a member, has been discussing and revising and discussing and revising for about 3 weeks - We were not given much time to
      Message 2 of 5 , Dec 1, 2006

        The rewrite committee, of which I am a member, has been discussing and revising and discussing and revising for about 3 weeks - We were not given much time to get this done in time for the Jan BOD meeting.  All this is is a _draft_ proposal so the BOD has something to look at.  You should SEE what the BOD sent back to Isolde earlier this year.  YIKES!!! We decided that rather than try to address each and every one of the multitude of BOD concerns over the old rules, we would write a wholely new document as a draft so they could then tell us what they thought before we dove in whole hog, as it were.

        All we are asking for is a 'this seems like the right/wrong direction'.  It should not take all that long to read, actually.
        Siobhan n S

        Am I the Siobhan you are looking for>


        Hello all-
        Wow - I may not be able to read this by tomorrow, much less review and formulate constructive input.

        With all due respect, one day is absolutely not enough time to peer review a document that will have this kind of impacts to the EQ community.  I don't know what the huge rush is, but the BoD always prints proposed rules changes in Kingdom newsletters, soliciting input for a _reasonable_ amount of time (a month or so, I think?) before closing out the review period. Revisions to our Society EQ manual, which are the basic rules that govern all we do, should follow a similar protocol.

        I *strongly* urge that the the deadline for the EQ community to review the draft document be extended at least one month (or one Board meeting) to allow sufficient time for all to comment.  With a solid document, there should be no rush! Please copy this note to Yasmina, and please ask why the delay in posting for review (or rush in putting before the Board) is.

        In service,
        Marguerite

        On 11/30/06, bulotki@... < bulotki@...> wrote:
        I received permission to send the document to the West Kingdom group. Please see the file
        recently posted for the Draft of proposed revisions to the Society Handbook, Nov 28, 2006.
        Your feedback on the changes is important!
         
        We have limited time to offer comments on the proposal before it is sent to the BoD. 
        I will collect your comments and forward them to the Society EQ Officer.  Note the Dec 1
        deadline is tomorrow.  All additional comments I receive after that date will still be sent,
        but may not be reviewed in time for the current draft, look for them in future versions.
         
        In Service,
         
        Gwendwyn the Silent,
        West Kingdom Equestrian Officer
         
         
        -----Original Message-----
        From: drwise@...
        To: SCA_KEO@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 7:44 AM
        Subject: [SCA_KEO] Draft rewrite

        Greetings all,
        For those I haven't met in person or online, I would like to introduce
        myself, since I am not currently a KEO. I have been assisting
        Yaasamiin with the rewrite of the Society Equestrian handbook, which
        is why I have been allowed on this list to answer questions. By
        background, I served as KEO for Ansteorra for over 4 years and have
        served as our kingdom legal officer for the last six years or so. I
        also helped draft both the mounted crest combat program, as well as
        the jousting program. Besides the drafting, I have been actively
        competing at SCA equestrian events for the last ten years, including
        mounted combat and jousting most recently. Off a horse, I've been
        fighting chivalric for 20+ years and have been a marshal in three
        different kingdoms.

        As we approach the rewrite of the society handbook, we are looking to
        address liability and management issues that arise from equestrian
        activities. These are similar, but different, from those arising from
        other activities within the society due to the unique nature of
        equines. While the previous rules gave us a base, there were
        artificial distinctions created that had the potential to increase
        liability by the perception that we were 'rating' riders. This could
        give rise to the claim that we were endorsing or guaranteeing a
        rider's ability to handle a particular horse or engage 'safely' in
        particular events. The new approach to authorizations requires the
        rider to demonstrate knowledge and skills, but leaves it to them to
        determine how they are going to ride. The check on this self
        determination is a more active role for the equestrian marshals who
        shall have clear authority to limit a rider who is attempting more
        than they appear to be able to handle (either by their limited skills
        or lack of a suitable horse) or who chooses to bring horses to an
        event and keep them in such a way as to create risks. The advantage
        of this approach is that it allows much more flexibility to adjust to
        the field conditions of the event. When conditions allow, we might
        have a much more visible horse 'presence', when field conditions
        require it, the EqMIC can tailor site specific rules to allow for the
        existing conditions.
        Of course, kingdoms are free to adjust these rules to suit the nature
        of equestrian activities within their kingdom; these are simply
        intended to provide a framework.
        Please take a moment to review the draft and share your thoughts. I
        will be happy to answer your questions and explain the reasoning
        behind the changes. To let everyone know, there is a December 1st
        deadline to get the proposal to the Society Earl Marshal, so time is
        of the essence. Please feel free to share with your senior
        equestrians, if Yaas has no objections, since the more eyes that look
        at it the more thorough vetting it receives. The caveat is that there
        will probably be some minor changes along the way, so be sure to keep
        up with those changes. I will be posting them by date to track which
        is the latest version.

        I look forward to hearing from everyone as we get a chance to tailor
        our rules to our unique program.

        With regards,
        Alexis

        Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection.

      • Ruth Ann
        Hi Siobhan, A resounding Yes - right direction! Thank you! - Aurora Basilissa _____ From: WestKingdomEQ@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WestKingdomEQ@yahoogroups.com]
        Message 3 of 5 , Dec 4, 2006
          Hi Siobhan,
           
          A resounding Yes - right direction!
           
          Thank you!
           
           - Aurora
          Basilissa


          From: WestKingdomEQ@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WestKingdomEQ@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of dkarp@...
          Sent: Friday, December 01, 2006 10:29 AM
          To: rachaelo@...
          Cc: bulotki@...; WestKingdomEQ@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [WestKingdomEQ] Fwd: [SCA_KEO] Draft rewrite

          The rewrite committee, of which I am a member, has been discussing and revising and discussing and revising for about 3 weeks - We were not given much time to get this done in time for the Jan BOD meeting.  All this is is a _draft_ proposal so the BOD has something to look at.  You should SEE what the BOD sent back to Isolde earlier this year.  YIKES!!! We decided that rather than try to address each and every one of the multitude of BOD concerns over the old rules, we would write a wholely new document as a draft so they could then tell us what they thought before we dove in whole hog, as it were.

          All we are asking for is a 'this seems like the right/wrong direction'.  It should not take all that long to read, actually.
          Siobhan n S

          Am I the Siobhan you are looking for>


          Hello all-
          Wow - I may not be able to read this by tomorrow, much less review and formulate constructive input.

          With all due respect, one day is absolutely not enough time to peer review a document that will have this kind of impacts to the EQ community.  I don't know what the huge rush is, but the BoD always prints proposed rules changes in Kingdom newsletters, soliciting input for a _reasonable_ amount of time (a month or so, I think?) before closing out the review period. Revisions to our Society EQ manual, which are the basic rules that govern all we do, should follow a similar protocol.

          I *strongly* urge that the the deadline for the EQ community to review the draft document be extended at least one month (or one Board meeting) to allow sufficient time for all to comment.  With a solid document, there should be no rush! Please copy this note to Yasmina, and please ask why the delay in posting for review (or rush in putting before the Board) is.

          In service,
          Marguerite

          On 11/30/06, bulotki@netscape. net < bulotki@netscape. net> wrote:
          I received permission to send the document to the West Kingdom group. Please see the file
          recently posted for the Draft of proposed revisions to the Society Handbook, Nov 28, 2006.
          Your feedback on the changes is important!
          We have limited time to offer comments on the proposal before it is sent to the BoD. 
          I will collect your comments and forward them to the Society EQ Officer.  Note the Dec 1
          deadline is tomorrow.  All additional comments I receive after that date will still be sent,
          but may not be reviewed in time for the current draft, look for them in future versions.
           
          In Service,
           
          Gwendwyn the Silent,
          West Kingdom Equestrian Officer
           
           
          -----Original Message-----
          From: drwise@houston. rr.com
          To: SCA_KEO@yahoogroups .com
          Sent: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 7:44 AM
          Subject: [SCA_KEO] Draft rewrite

          Greetings all,
          For those I haven't met in person or online, I would like to introduce
          myself, since I am not currently a KEO. I have been assisting
          Yaasamiin with the rewrite of the Society Equestrian handbook, which
          is why I have been allowed on this list to answer questions. By
          background, I served as KEO for Ansteorra for over 4 years and have
          served as our kingdom legal officer for the last six years or so. I
          also helped draft both the mounted crest combat program, as well as
          the jousting program. Besides the drafting, I have been actively
          competing at SCA equestrian events for the last ten years, including
          mounted combat and jousting most recently. Off a horse, I've been
          fighting chivalric for 20+ years and have been a marshal in three
          different kingdoms.

          As we approach the rewrite of the society handbook, we are looking to
          address liability and management issues that arise from equestrian
          activities. These are similar, but different, from those arising from
          other activities within the society due to the unique nature of
          equines. While the previous rules gave us a base, there were
          artificial distinctions created that had the potential to increase
          liability by the perception that we were 'rating' riders. This could
          give rise to the claim that we were endorsing or guaranteeing a
          rider's ability to handle a particular horse or engage 'safely' in
          particular events. The new approach to authorizations requires the
          rider to demonstrate knowledge and skills, but leaves it to them to
          determine how they are going to ride. The check on this self
          determination is a more active role for the equestrian marshals who
          shall have clear authority to limit a rider who is attempting more
          than they appear to be able to handle (either by their limited skills
          or lack of a suitable horse) or who chooses to bring horses to an
          event and keep them in such a way as to create risks. The advantage
          of this approach is that it allows much more flexibility to adjust to
          the field conditions of the event. When conditions allow, we might
          have a much more visible horse 'presence', when field conditions
          require it, the EqMIC can tailor site specific rules to allow for the
          existing conditions.
          Of course, kingdoms are free to adjust these rules to suit the nature
          of equestrian activities within their kingdom; these are simply
          intended to provide a framework.
          Please take a moment to review the draft and share your thoughts. I
          will be happy to answer your questions and explain the reasoning
          behind the changes. To let everyone know, there is a December 1st
          deadline to get the proposal to the Society Earl Marshal, so time is
          of the essence. Please feel free to share with your senior
          equestrians, if Yaas has no objections, since the more eyes that look
          at it the more thorough vetting it receives. The caveat is that there
          will probably be some minor changes along the way, so be sure to keep
          up with those changes. I will be posting them by date to track which
          is the latest version.

          I look forward to hearing from everyone as we get a chance to tailor
          our rules to our unique program.

          With regards,
          Alexis

          Check Out the new free AIM(R) Mail -- 2 GB of storage and industry-leading spam and email virus protection.

        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.