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Fwd: [SCA Equestrian] Experimental Mounted Combat rules

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  • bulotki@netscape.net
    More from Isolde on Proposed Mounted Combat. Gwen ... From: Jude Kensington To: sca-equine@midrealm.org Sent: Tue, 28 Mar 2006
    Message 1 of 3 , Mar 29, 2006
      More from Isolde on Proposed Mounted Combat.
       
      Gwen
       
      -----Original Message-----
      From: Jude Kensington <hawksholme@...>
      To: sca-equine@...
      Sent: Tue, 28 Mar 2006 19:21:53 -0800
      Subject: [SCA Equestrian] Experimental Mounted Combat rules

      Greetings, 
      
      A couple of things I forgot to mention. This activity does not replace
      and is not intended to replace the mounted crest boffer.  Those that
      wish to do only the crest are encouraged to keep playing!  This activity
      is for those who want to take the mounted combat a step further.
      The other thing is that this is going to require active marshalling. 
      Keep a good watch on what is going on and remember, if you are going to
      be an authorizing marshal,  that just because someone wants to do this
      doesn't mean that they should.
      
      Go forth and play.
      
      
      
      Proposed SCA Mounted Combat Rules
      
      Limits:  This activity requires a special authorization.  Only the
      kingdom equestrian officer or marshals expressly designated by them for
      this activity may approve riders to participate.  Authorization is a
      two-step process.  Mounted combat candidates must be authorized Advanced
      Riders.  Horses must be deemed "authorized" for mounted combat by the
      marshallate.  Only single combat is allowed.  No Melees.
      Safety: Safety for both the rider and the mount must be maintained at
      all times.  All activities must be stopped at the first indication of an
      unsafe situation.  Equipment failure on fighter or horse is cause for
      stopping all activity. 
      
      
      Equipment: Marshal may fail any piece of equipment that is deemed unsafe
      for participants, equine or human.
      Weapons: swords are the only allowed weapons for mounted combat. 
      Sword construction: Schedule ¾" PVC plastic pipe 1/16" wall thickness)
      or 7/8" diameter shaved rattan is the base material for mounted combat
      swords.  All swords whether PVC or rattan shall be padded with ½ inch of
      closed cell foam. Padding shall entirely cover the striking surface. 
      Swords shall be a minimum if 1.25 inches in diameter.  Sword shall have
      cutting edge marked with contrasting tape. Swords shall have a mass
      weight limit of 5 lbs. 
      Sword Fittings: Any acceptable heavy combat sword fittings  (sword
      hilts, pommels, basket hilts) may be used on mounted combat swords.
      PVC Swords: PVC shall be capped at both ends.  PVC swords may be filled
      with expanding foam to create a more realistically weighted weapon.
      Thrusting tips: Thrusting is not allowed in mounted combat.
      
      
      Armor: Little armor is required to engage safely in mounted combat with
      the enclosed weapon standards due to the padded blades.  The exceptions
      are head and throat protection;
      
      Fighter:
      Head: Marshallate-approved helm with face protection.  Helmets must be
      constructed of metal of no less than 18 gauge.  Face guards must prevent
      a 1-inch diameter dowel from entering into any of the face guard
      openings.  There is no maximum width of the openings; however, the
      materials used around the opening must be of sufficient strength to
      prevent a full force blow from collapsing the opening.  A chinstrap is
      required.  All parts of the helm that might come into contact with the
      wearer's head shall be padded or suspended in such a way as to prevent
      injurious contact with the wearer.  Similarly, parts of the helm that
      might come in contact with the wearer's neck or body should be padded.
      Throat/Neck: Mounted combat requires Gorget of rigid material or Maille
      Drape of significant weight to prevent lifting by prescribed weapons. 
      Hands: No hand protection is required. Leather gloves are suggested to
      prevent abrasion to the hands.
      Shields:  Shields are not required.  If carried they will be constructed
      of wood of at least ½" thickness. Edges of the shield should be covered
      or designed to minimize damage to weapons. Plastic shields and metal
      shields are expressly forbidden.  Metal shields present a hazard to
      riders falling on a very thin edge.
      
      
      1.      Horse: In testing we have found that an occasional but rare
      strike to a horse is inevitable. The parts of the horse most sensitive
      to injury must be protected.  Eyes and poll being the most sensitive the
      following armor standards are requirements. 
      a.      Eyes: two types of eye protection are acceptable for horses;
      full-faced police riot protection or Racetrack eye protection of the
      blinker type.
      1.      Police Riot gear. Full-faced riot protection made of 1/8 lexan
      attached to the bridle of the horse. The protection must clear the
      horse's eye in all directions by ¾ of an inch. 
      2.      Blinker style. The lexan/acrylic eye protection used by jockeys
      and trainers at the racetrack.  This consists of individual eyecups of
      approximately 3.5-inch diameter. The blinker must use transparent full
      eyecups. Partial eyecups are not an acceptable substitute. Eye
      protection of this sort may be incorporated into a period horse garment
      providing the garment ensures proper placement of the eyecups at all
      times. 
      b.      Poll. Poll protection traditionally used for trailering is
      adequate to protect the horse from injury. In lieu of commercially
      produced poll protection rigid material (10 oz leather or equivalent)
      with ½ inch of close cell foam must protect the poll of the horse. 
      
      4.      Scoring:  In order to minimize contact with the horse legal
      target areas are head, arms and torso above the solar plexus. Neck shots
      are counted lethal but discouraged. In trying to both protect the horse
      and maintain a period perspective on the value of a trained mount this
      system of scoring represents attempting to kill rider and capture horse. 
      
      Head- One hit is a kill 
      Neck-One hit is a kill
      Torso- Above Solar plexus one hit target is killed. 
      Below Solar Plexus Two hits striker is killed 
      Arms- Two hits target is killed (blows are counted equipment is not
      dropped)
      Horse/ Saddle- Striker is killed
      5.      Unintentional contact: Unintentional contact with the opponent's
      horse by a combatants shield is inevitable. At the marshal's discretion
      a combatant may be removed from combat for excessive contact by shield
      with the opponent's horse. 
      6.      General Conventions: Where not clearly delineated the rules of
      mounted combat defer to kingdom heavy combat rules.
      a.       Holds- All holds are general, meaning any hold called on the
      field ceases all activity riders will place weapons across the tops of
      helm to quickly identify all have heard. 
      b.      Charges- All mounted combat is conducted at the walk. Any gate
      may be used to close for combat but the riders must be at a walk for two
      strides to engage. 
      c.      Engagement-Single combat -After lay on is called fighters are
      considered engaged until one is eliminated or a hold is called.
      Prohibited Activity:
      
      No intentional striking or kicking the opponent's horse.
      No grappling of any sort. 
      No handling opponents Tack, harness bridle etc.
      Rider striking any horse whether horse of opponent or self is killed.
      Shields will not be used as an offensive weapon (no striking with any
      shield surface)
      Striking an opponent with excessive force.
      
      =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
      From:  "Jude Kensington" <hawksholme@...>
      =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
      To unsubscribe, send 'unsubscribe sca-equine' to majordomo@...
      

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    • juliana_of_avon
      No Melees??? DRAT!!!! ;-) This new activity sounds like tremendous fun. I am assuming the combatants are blocking with swords as shields are not required.
      Message 2 of 3 , Mar 29, 2006
        No Melees??? DRAT!!!! ;-)

        This new activity sounds like tremendous fun. I am assuming the
        combatants are blocking with swords as shields are "not required."
        Sine I am a visual person I'd have to see a demo of it. Anyone got
        video blips they've created?

        Juliana
      • Rachael Keish
        Passing along this note from Isolde on SCA-Equine list - anyone with a proposal for longer jousting lances should contact her. ;-), Marguerite ... From: Jude
        Message 3 of 3 , Mar 31, 2006
          Passing along this note from Isolde on SCA-Equine list - anyone with a
          proposal for longer jousting lances should contact her.
          ;-), Marguerite

          ---------- Forwarded message ----------
          From: Jude Kensington <hawksholme@...>
          Date: Mar 30, 2006 6:24 PM
          Subject: Re: [SCA Equestrian] Experimental Mounted Combat rules
          To: sca-equine@...


          Greetings Alexis,

          I have no problem with original equipment as long as the eyes are
          covered with something solid. If you can work the hard plastic eye
          protection into it, there shouldn't be a problem. Some sort of barwork
          that will not allow anything to penetrate should work also. The eye
          protection needs to be something that cannot be crushed so mesh or
          something of the sort is not going to work unless you can jump up and
          down on it with out bending it. See what you can come up with.

          On another note, on the jousting lance lengths, I am pretty sure when
          this came up some time ago I said that I had no problem with making the
          lances longer. The only problem I have is in using the cardboard tube
          to do so. There are a couple of ideas running around out there that
          would take two tubes and section them together so that they would break
          farther back (in the middle) if they were struck. Again come up with
          something and let me know. I happen to think that the lances are too
          short also.
          And while I am on the subject, everyone needs to pay attention to the
          sort of tubes being used. I have seen a couple of carpet cardboard
          tubes which are much thicker than the minimum allowed. If you are (that
          is a general 'you') please stop.

          Isolde
          On Wed, 29 Mar 2006 10:11:19 -0600, "Dave Wise" <drwise@...>
          said:
          > Hi Isolde (and everyone else):
          >
          > Glad to see that we are continuing to develop new things to do with our
          > horses. I have one question though, regarding the required protection
          > for the horse, can 'original equipment' be used as well? In other words,
          > if you have a properly padded and fitted chanfron, including poll and
          > ear protection, would that be considered acceptable? For the eyes,
          > either a raised ridge or even a barwork cup are both period. In
          > addition, a crinet could then be added for additional protection along
          > the top of the neck. Please let us know if that could be used as an
          > alternative.
          > With regards,
          > Alexis
          >
          > Greetings,
          >
          > >A couple of things I forgot to mention. This activity does not replace
          > >and is not intended to replace the mounted crest boffer. Those that
          > >wish to do only the crest are encouraged to keep playing! This activity
          > >is for those who want to take the mounted combat a step further.
          > >The other thing is that this is going to require active marshalling.
          > >Keep a good watch on what is going on and remember, if you are going to
          > >be an authorizing marshal, that just because someone wants to do this
          > >doesn't mean that they should.
          > >
          > >Go forth and play.
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >Proposed SCA Mounted Combat Rules
          > >
          > >Limits: This activity requires a special authorization. Only the
          > >kingdom equestrian officer or marshals expressly designated by them for
          > >this activity may approve riders to participate. Authorization is a
          > >two-step process. Mounted combat candidates must be authorized Advanced
          > >Riders. Horses must be deemed “authorized” for mounted combat by the
          > >marshallate. Only single combat is allowed. No Melees.
          > >Safety: Safety for both the rider and the mount must be maintained at
          > >all times. All activities must be stopped at the first indication of an
          > >unsafe situation. Equipment failure on fighter or horse is cause for
          > >stopping all activity.
          > >
          > >
          > >Equipment: Marshal may fail any piece of equipment that is deemed unsafe
          > >for participants, equine or human.
          > >Weapons: swords are the only allowed weapons for mounted combat.
          > >Sword construction: Schedule ¾” PVC plastic pipe 1/16” wall thickness)
          > >or 7/8” diameter shaved rattan is the base material for mounted combat
          > >swords. All swords whether PVC or rattan shall be padded with ½ inch of
          > >closed cell foam. Padding shall entirely cover the striking surface.
          > >Swords shall be a minimum if 1.25 inches in diameter. Sword shall have
          > >cutting edge marked with contrasting tape. Swords shall have a mass
          > >weight limit of 5 lbs.
          > >Sword Fittings: Any acceptable heavy combat sword fittings (sword
          > >hilts, pommels, basket hilts) may be used on mounted combat swords.
          > >PVC Swords: PVC shall be capped at both ends. PVC swords may be filled
          > >with expanding foam to create a more realistically weighted weapon.
          > >Thrusting tips: Thrusting is not allowed in mounted combat.
          > >
          > >
          > >Armor: Little armor is required to engage safely in mounted combat with
          > >the enclosed weapon standards due to the padded blades. The exceptions
          > >are head and throat protection;
          > >
          > >Fighter:
          > >Head: Marshallate-approved helm with face protection. Helmets must be
          > >constructed of metal of no less than 18 gauge. Face guards must prevent
          > >a 1-inch diameter dowel from entering into any of the face guard
          > >openings. There is no maximum width of the openings; however, the
          > >materials used around the opening must be of sufficient strength to
          > >prevent a full force blow from collapsing the opening. A chinstrap is
          > >required. All parts of the helm that might come into contact with the
          > >wearer’s head shall be padded or suspended in such a way as to prevent
          > >injurious contact with the wearer. Similarly, parts of the helm that
          > >might come in contact with the wearer’s neck or body should be padded.
          > >Throat/Neck: Mounted combat requires Gorget of rigid material or Maille
          > >Drape of significant weight to prevent lifting by prescribed weapons.
          > >Hands: No hand protection is required. Leather gloves are suggested to
          > >prevent abrasion to the hands.
          > >Shields: Shields are not required. If carried they will be constructed
          > >of wood of at least ½” thickness. Edges of the shield should be covered
          > >or designed to minimize damage to weapons. Plastic shields and metal
          > >shields are expressly forbidden. Metal shields present a hazard to
          > >riders falling on a very thin edge.
          > >
          > >
          > >1. Horse: In testing we have found that an occasional but rare
          > >strike to a horse is inevitable. The parts of the horse most sensitive
          > >to injury must be protected. Eyes and poll being the most sensitive the
          > >following armor standards are requirements.
          > >a. Eyes: two types of eye protection are acceptable for horses;
          > >full-faced police riot protection or Racetrack eye protection of the
          > >blinker type.
          > >1. Police Riot gear. Full-faced riot protection made of 1/8 lexan
          > >attached to the bridle of the horse. The protection must clear the
          > >horse’s eye in all directions by ¾ of an inch.
          > >2. Blinker style. The lexan/acrylic eye protection used by jockeys
          > >and trainers at the racetrack. This consists of individual eyecups of
          > >approximately 3.5-inch diameter. The blinker must use transparent full
          > >eyecups. Partial eyecups are not an acceptable substitute. Eye
          > >protection of this sort may be incorporated into a period horse garment
          > >providing the garment ensures proper placement of the eyecups at all
          > >times.
          > >b. Poll. Poll protection traditionally used for trailering is
          > >adequate to protect the horse from injury. In lieu of commercially
          > >produced poll protection rigid material (10 oz leather or equivalent)
          > >with ½ inch of close cell foam must protect the poll of the horse.
          > >
          > >4. Scoring: In order to minimize contact with the horse legal
          > >target areas are head, arms and torso above the solar plexus. Neck shots
          > >are counted lethal but discouraged. In trying to both protect the horse
          > >and maintain a period perspective on the value of a trained mount this
          > >system of scoring represents attempting to kill rider and capture horse.
          > >
          > >Head- One hit is a kill
          > >Neck-One hit is a kill
          > >Torso- Above Solar plexus one hit target is killed.
          > >Below Solar Plexus Two hits striker is killed
          > >Arms- Two hits target is killed (blows are counted equipment is not
          > >dropped)
          > >Horse/ Saddle- Striker is killed
          > >5. Unintentional contact: Unintentional contact with the opponent’s
          > >horse by a combatants shield is inevitable. At the marshal’s discretion
          > >a combatant may be removed from combat for excessive contact by shield
          > >with the opponent’s horse.
          > >6. General Conventions: Where not clearly delineated the rules of
          > >mounted combat defer to kingdom heavy combat rules.
          > >a. Holds- All holds are general, meaning any hold called on the
          > >field ceases all activity riders will place weapons across the tops of
          > >helm to quickly identify all have heard.
          > >b. Charges- All mounted combat is conducted at the walk. Any gate
          > >may be used to close for combat but the riders must be at a walk for two
          > >strides to engage.
          > >c. Engagement-Single combat –After lay on is called fighters are
          > >considered engaged until one is eliminated or a hold is called.
          > >Prohibited Activity:
          > >
          > >No intentional striking or kicking the opponent’s horse.
          > >No grappling of any sort.
          > >No handling opponents Tack, harness bridle etc.
          > >Rider striking any horse whether horse of opponent or self is killed.
          > >Shields will not be used as an offensive weapon (no striking with any
          > >shield surface)
          > >Striking an opponent with excessive force.
          > >
          > >=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
          > >From: "Jude Kensington" <hawksholme@...>
          > >=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
          > >To unsubscribe, send 'unsubscribe sca-equine' to majordomo@...
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
          > From: Dave Wise <drwise@...>
          > =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
          > To unsubscribe, send 'unsubscribe sca-equine' to majordomo@...

          ---------------------------------
          From: "Jude Kensington" <hawksholme@...>
          ---------------------------------
          To unsubscribe, send 'unsubscribe sca-equine' to majordomo@...
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