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Re: Horses in the Mists and future possible developments

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  • henrikofhavn
    Elsie, As for who to contact on any committee about horse rentals and associated costs, that is a good question. What I know is that two seperate groups ( and
    Message 1 of 28 , Jul 13, 2011
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      Elsie,

      As for who to contact on any committee about horse rentals and associated costs, that is a good question. What I know is that two seperate groups ( and there may even be more out there that I don't know about) decided at some time in the past ( in May of 2007 for one of them ) to get together to begin planning for holding 50th year here in the West. AS you may know the last official BOD sanctioned anniversary gathering was 30th year held in AnTir. Due to lack of bids 35th, 40th and 45th years wereignored by the Corporation and only 40th had a local Kingdom celebrate it on any largeish scale at all. I never really heard about it till after it was over. Pennsic and Estrella were way bigger in comparison.

      I for one, was pissed that nothing big has happened since 30th year and began seeking information if anyone here in the west was doing anything about 50th year, over a year ago. Ultimately I found that the group that began thinking about it in 2007 had formed a Yahoo group and immediately joined it. Since then some discussions have occurred on it about possible sites and their later removal from consideration due to State Budget cuts and closing of parks and such that might have worked. I proposed Casa De Fruta ( since they have held the Renn Faire there for several years with daily attendence of 30K or so at times, and have had jousting shows there too. I've never seen the place so my suggestion was based on heresay information.

      I sent them an e-mail inquiry and was told don't bother us till a year or so in advance since they wouldn't discuss costs or what they would or wouldn't allow. They also said they were mostly pre booked for other commitments from other users who have been there annually and wouldn't discuss what time they had free. Since I wasn't anyones representative I had no way of assuring them we would pay their fees or make any guarantees to elicit a response. I tried phoning and got a similar brush off.

      In any case that was not conducive to generating a proposal if availability dates and costs and amenities were not available to incorporate in it. So the group I've joined hasn't come up with anything positive so far. Well as I mentioned I heard at the Kingdom officers meeting that a proposal was sent to the BOD from the other group here. I asked around and found out Brocc's name, but nothing more. So I went to the meeting and was aboe to speak to those members of the other group, there. I've invited as many as I have addresses for to join the group I'm with and at least one has just joi9ned yesterday, but only as a professed observer , to see if we come up with useful information for them to use in their planning and bid generation.

      So we now have one group working in private and another with less product at present, wishing to either help or do it themselves and a modest level of contact between them. If others outside these two groups are also doing the samem I don't know about it right now.

      So getting back to your question, who to send information to and work with? Beats me. My recommendation is ask a sympathetic Crown to make that determination for the Kingdom, and see where it leads.

      As for the Equestrian community - that is, us - I think simply doing what we currently are doing, but with the concious goal of doing it to make 50th year better, IF THE WEST GETS BOD APPROVAL TO HOLD IT HERE, and doing it so the bidding croup is able to consider a comprehensive Equestrian proposal of what we, The Equestrian Community can and wish to do at 50th, so it can be pl;anned for and be incorporated in the BID proposal.

      For instance, if we could say that we can provide:
      a) an Equestrrian Autocrat individual or Autocrat team to organise and or run the Equestrian event(s)
      b) provide a selection of event equipment and helpers
      c) provide events and competitions that either The West or other Kingdoms set up and run as the event schedule and member participation and interest allows
      d)are able to provide any needed set up funding, to later be reimbursed from participant fees
      e)have adequate designated space and facilities set aside and approval of scheduled activiteies from the site owner and overall event Autocrat
      f) Have adequate supplies of horses and equipment lined up and available as may be needed by the participants who wish to do so.

      and any other pertenant requirements that may be determined. Then we could tell the bidders what they need to put in theor bid and what they need to get from the site and they in turn could tell us what limitations we would need to accept if the chosen site to use in the bid were used.

      I was told that Pleasanton has a race track ( but I have never seen it or what if any stalls or other associated structures there may be on site and possibly available to an equestrian group using that site) and that Thoroughbed horses train on it daily till 10 AM. Is this true during the expected time ( May 1 thru May 10 or possibly May 16, 2016) or can we negotiate some other schedule then? Or, if it is true can we work around it, especially if night illumination is available or if only afternoon activities is all the time we might need?

      The people in the bidding group who were asking about the horse use at the Pleasanton Fair Grounds were not experienced Equestrian event holders or participants, nor were they concerned about horse use at all, other than as almost an afterthought.

      That is why I think we need to develop ourselves into a coherant body that not only knows what it wants at 50th but knows what it can provide for SCA members to lure them here to "come play with us". Then we will be able to tell the bidding group what that is, so the bidding group can understand what they need to select the bid site to be able to provide. And they will then be able to tell the BOD what their bid can give the event if held here in The West Kingdom.


      I completely agree that on site stabling would be great and plan to inspect the place when I go there the next time.

      Henrik

      ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

      --- In WestKingdomEQ@yahoogroups.com, Nancy Reimers <nancyreimers@...> wrote:
      >
      > Henrik,
      >
      > I completely hear you on "if you don't build it, they can't come"
      >
      > I actually spent a little time googling for horse wranglers in CA and came
      > up with a list (which is at home, I'm on an airplane).
      >
      > I do think a rental string of 10 horses would potentially cover us for most
      > days.
      >
      > The question becomes who would like to make some phone calls and get some
      > estimates?
      >
      > And
      >
      > Who is on the committee that we should send information to?
      >
      > Unless feed and fuel prices reverse their trend. I suspect average rental
      > cost will probably be around $120 to $150 per day in a few years. The only
      > limitation I see on rentals is folks willingness to pay for them. Stock
      > contractors should be able to state the minimum number of rentals they are
      > willing to travel for.
      >
      > It also would be good to know what stabling is available on site and what
      > the approximate cost would be. At some point stabling becomes cheaper and
      > easier than hauling especially if you need to add multiple trucks and
      > trailers.
      >
      > No more wifi. Type at you later.
      >
      > Else
      >
    • Tori
      Hi.   I have some information for you regarding the Pleasanton fairgrounds.  Yes, there is a racetrack there.  Yes, there will be training during the time
      Message 2 of 28 , Jul 14, 2011
      • 0 Attachment
        Hi.
         
        I have some information for you regarding the Pleasanton fairgrounds.  Yes, there is a racetrack there.  Yes, there will be training during the time you are asking unless something catastrophic happens to the racing industry before that time.  Yes, there is onsite stabling but we will most likely not have access to it, as the stalls are for the racehorses.  The trainers will get really touchy about having to share space (and the likelihood of there being much open stabling is slim.)
         
        I attend a yearly TB sale there and the last 4 years, we haven't had access to the stabling so we've had to set up portable canvas stalls which quite frankly cost a lot and were not the best answer.  Possibly we could find portable pens for less.  To the best of my knowledge, there isn't a lot of horse friendly equipment there (arena etc.) so we would have to set that up as well since the track would be off limits.
         
        I guess my thought would be that from what I know of the area, it isn't really the best place for a horse friendly SCA event, though I could certainly be wrong as I am only familiar with the track area.
         
        Arianwen

         
        Neca Eos Omnes.  Deus Suos Agnoset.


        --- On Wed, 7/13/11, henrikofhavn <henriksd5@...> wrote:

        From: henrikofhavn <henriksd5@...>
        Subject: [WestKingdomEQ] Re: Horses in the Mists and future possible developments
        To: WestKingdomEQ@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Wednesday, July 13, 2011, 11:20 PM

         
        Elsie,

        As for who to contact on any committee about horse rentals and associated costs, that is a good question. What I know is that two seperate groups ( and there may even be more out there that I don't know about) decided at some time in the past ( in May of 2007 for one of them ) to get together to begin planning for holding 50th year here in the West. AS you may know the last official BOD sanctioned anniversary gathering was 30th year held in AnTir. Due to lack of bids 35th, 40th and 45th years wereignored by the Corporation and only 40th had a local Kingdom celebrate it on any largeish scale at all. I never really heard about it till after it was over. Pennsic and Estrella were way bigger in comparison.

        I for one, was pissed that nothing big has happened since 30th year and began seeking information if anyone here in the west was doing anything about 50th year, over a year ago. Ultimately I found that the group that began thinking about it in 2007 had formed a Yahoo group and immediately joined it. Since then some discussions have occurred on it about possible sites and their later removal from consideration due to State Budget cuts and closing of parks and such that might have worked. I proposed Casa De Fruta ( since they have held the Renn Faire there for several years with daily attendence of 30K or so at times, and have had jousting shows there too. I've never seen the place so my suggestion was based on heresay information.

        I sent them an e-mail inquiry and was told don't bother us till a year or so in advance since they wouldn't discuss costs or what they would or wouldn't allow. They also said they were mostly pre booked for other commitments from other users who have been there annually and wouldn't discuss what time they had free. Since I wasn't anyones representative I had no way of assuring them we would pay their fees or make any guarantees to elicit a response. I tried phoning and got a similar brush off.

        In any case that was not conducive to generating a proposal if availability dates and costs and amenities were not available to incorporate in it. So the group I've joined hasn't come up with anything positive so far. Well as I mentioned I heard at the Kingdom officers meeting that a proposal was sent to the BOD from the other group here. I asked around and found out Brocc's name, but nothing more. So I went to the meeting and was aboe to speak to those members of the other group, there. I've invited as many as I have addresses for to join the group I'm with and at least one has just joi9ned yesterday, but only as a professed observer , to see if we come up with useful information for them to use in their planning and bid generation.

        So we now have one group working in private and another with less product at present, wishing to either help or do it themselves and a modest level of contact between them. If others outside these two groups are also doing the samem I don't know about it right now.

        So getting back to your question, who to send information to and work with? Beats me. My recommendation is ask a sympathetic Crown to make that determination for the Kingdom, and see where it leads.

        As for the Equestrian community - that is, us - I think simply doing what we currently are doing, but with the concious goal of doing it to make 50th year better, IF THE WEST GETS BOD APPROVAL TO HOLD IT HERE, and doing it so the bidding croup is able to consider a comprehensive Equestrian proposal of what we, The Equestrian Community can and wish to do at 50th, so it can be pl;anned for and be incorporated in the BID proposal.

        For instance, if we could say that we can provide:
        a) an Equestrrian Autocrat individual or Autocrat team to organise and or run the Equestrian event(s)
        b) provide a selection of event equipment and helpers
        c) provide events and competitions that either The West or other Kingdoms set up and run as the event schedule and member participation and interest allows
        d)are able to provide any needed set up funding, to later be reimbursed from participant fees
        e)have adequate designated space and facilities set aside and approval of scheduled activiteies from the site owner and overall event Autocrat
        f) Have adequate supplies of horses and equipment lined up and available as may be needed by the participants who wish to do so.

        and any other pertenant requirements that may be determined. Then we could tell the bidders what they need to put in theor bid and what they need to get from the site and they in turn could tell us what limitations we would need to accept if the chosen site to use in the bid were used.

        I was told that Pleasanton has a race track ( but I have never seen it or what if any stalls or other associated structures there may be on site and possibly available to an equestrian group using that site) and that Thoroughbed horses train on it daily till 10 AM. Is this true during the expected time ( May 1 thru May 10 or possibly May 16, 2016) or can we negotiate some other schedule then? Or, if it is true can we work around it, especially if night illumination is available or if only afternoon activities is all the time we might need?

        The people in the bidding group who were asking about the horse use at the Pleasanton Fair Grounds were not experienced Equestrian event holders or participants, nor were they concerned about horse use at all, other than as almost an afterthought.

        That is why I think we need to develop ourselves into a coherant body that not only knows what it wants at 50th but knows what it can provide for SCA members to lure them here to "come play with us". Then we will be able to tell the bidding group what that is, so the bidding group can understand what they need to select the bid site to be able to provide. And they will then be able to tell the BOD what their bid can give the event if held here in The West Kingdom.

        I completely agree that on site stabling would be great and plan to inspect the place when I go there the next time.

        Henrik

        ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

        --- In WestKingdomEQ@yahoogroups.com, Nancy Reimers <nancyreimers@...> wrote:
        >
        > Henrik,
        >
        > I completely hear you on "if you don't build it, they can't come"
        >
        > I actually spent a little time googling for horse wranglers in CA and came
        > up with a list (which is at home, I'm on an airplane).
        >
        > I do think a rental string of 10 horses would potentially cover us for most
        > days.
        >
        > The question becomes who would like to make some phone calls and get some
        > estimates?
        >
        > And
        >
        > Who is on the committee that we should send information to?
        >
        > Unless feed and fuel prices reverse their trend. I suspect average rental
        > cost will probably be around $120 to $150 per day in a few years. The only
        > limitation I see on rentals is folks willingness to pay for them. Stock
        > contractors should be able to state the minimum number of rentals they are
        > willing to travel for.
        >
        > It also would be good to know what stabling is available on site and what
        > the approximate cost would be. At some point stabling becomes cheaper and
        > easier than hauling especially if you need to add multiple trucks and
        > trailers.
        >
        > No more wifi. Type at you later.
        >
        > Else
        >

      • henrikofhavn
        Thank you for the additional information. The only thing I can add is that at 20th year , we had conditions that were somewhat similar, We had only a race
        Message 3 of 28 , Jul 14, 2011
        • 0 Attachment
          Thank you for the additional information. The only thing I can add is that at 20th year , we had conditions that were somewhat similar, We had only a race track to use and the primary source of horses came in each morning and left each end of day so no on site stabling was used , except one horse stayed in a small padoc, as I recall and one other was tied to it's trailer some place else.

          This lack of easy access to suitable facilities is precisely the sort of thing that comes from a bidding comittee which dosen't have any member who is concerned with having horses at the event. They seem to have been concerned with location and perhaps capacity for people amd the idea of horse use was at most a casual afterthought of little importance. That is why I've brought the topic here, to discuss and perhaps be able to encourage a change in the process, now when there is still time to make a significant impact in the outcome.

          Of course the BOD may ultimately choose another Kingdom to hold the event and if so what we do here will be immaterial. But if the BOD does select the West Kingdom bid, I'd like it to include ample Equestrian activity and at least some sort of facility for doing so.

          If the West Kingdom bid is to adequately address Equestrian concerns then we, as a community, need to make that possible by working towards providing adequate information to the biddiing comittee and demonstrating ample willingness to support such activity in any way we can manage. If we can do that, then it will be up to whatever authority is ultimately in charge to make the best use of our efforts to create a superior bid that is accepted by the BOD. And this in turn will permit The West Kingdom to host a great event that we can hold an Equestrian track of activity within and make the best of the available resources.

          In reality, I think we can manage to work in plain open space and set up what we can gather, and make it work anyway. It may mean costs rise, but that will just have to be bourn by all participants and if we make it popular enough there will be many who do, and so costs can be rather small, in spite of it all - if it comes to that.

          One posibility that comes to mind for instance, is if we begin today to set a dimensional standard in portable corrals. Then everyone who has thought of buying some for themselves anyway, starts looking for bargin sales that meet that standard, and buy as many as they want, when they can. Then at some tilme in the future, there may be sufficient numbers of corall units , collectively owned by our members, that could be combined to create a suitable enclosure to work within.

          At Estrella War, all they had was such an enclosed arena and some stalls along one side of it and it has worked fine for years. Do the math, how many fence units would we need to combine to make an arena? A 200 to 300 foot long by 50 to 100 foot wide arena?

          I don't know what the unit sizes are , but if West Kingdom members own some and we rent more that are the same size and will fit together with them, and combine them all to make what we need, it may be cheap anough to be able to do. I don't know what they cost, but am willing to chip in and donate cash to buy a few panels myself (even though I have no other use for them) if someone can store them and transport them to and from whatever event - like 50th year- they are need and used for. If half of the 197 members on this list do the same and buy one or more panels each, we could be well on our way to building such an arena out of them and we could use it at all major equestrian events here in the West, not just 50th year.

          But doing this or anything else takes commitment and coordination and working as a group for common goals, not just individual ones. If all we do is for ourselves individually with no effort beyond that, then I fear we won't achieve grand results. It's that simple.

          Henrik


          +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++



          --- In WestKingdomEQ@yahoogroups.com, Tori <jessimare@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi.
          >  
          > I have some information for you regarding the Pleasanton fairgrounds.  Yes, there is a racetrack there.  Yes, there will be training during the time you are asking unless something catastrophic happens to the racing industry before that time.  Yes, there is onsite stabling but we will most likely not have access to it, as the stalls are for the racehorses.  The trainers will get really touchy about having to share space (and the likelihood of there being much open stabling is slim.)
          >  
          > I attend a yearly TB sale there and the last 4 years, we haven't had access to the stabling so we've had to set up portable canvas stalls which quite frankly cost a lot and were not the best answer.  Possibly we could find portable pens for less.  To the best of my knowledge, there isn't a lot of horse friendly equipment there (arena etc.) so we would have to set that up as well since the track would be off limits.
          >  
          > I guess my thought would be that from what I know of the area, it isn't really the best place for a horse friendly SCA event, though I could certainly be wrong as I am only familiar with the track area.
          >  
          > Arianwen
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >  
          > Neca Eos Omnes.  Deus Suos Agnoset.
          >
          >
          > --- On Wed, 7/13/11, henrikofhavn <henriksd5@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > From: henrikofhavn <henriksd5@...>
          > Subject: [WestKingdomEQ] Re: Horses in the Mists and future possible developments
          > To: WestKingdomEQ@yahoogroups.com
          > Date: Wednesday, July 13, 2011, 11:20 PM
          >
          >
          >  
          >
          >
          >
          > Elsie,
          >
          > As for who to contact on any committee about horse rentals and associated costs, that is a good question. What I know is that two seperate groups ( and there may even be more out there that I don't know about) decided at some time in the past ( in May of 2007 for one of them ) to get together to begin planning for holding 50th year here in the West. AS you may know the last official BOD sanctioned anniversary gathering was 30th year held in AnTir. Due to lack of bids 35th, 40th and 45th years wereignored by the Corporation and only 40th had a local Kingdom celebrate it on any largeish scale at all. I never really heard about it till after it was over. Pennsic and Estrella were way bigger in comparison.
          >
          > I for one, was pissed that nothing big has happened since 30th year and began seeking information if anyone here in the west was doing anything about 50th year, over a year ago. Ultimately I found that the group that began thinking about it in 2007 had formed a Yahoo group and immediately joined it. Since then some discussions have occurred on it about possible sites and their later removal from consideration due to State Budget cuts and closing of parks and such that might have worked. I proposed Casa De Fruta ( since they have held the Renn Faire there for several years with daily attendence of 30K or so at times, and have had jousting shows there too. I've never seen the place so my suggestion was based on heresay information.
          >
          > I sent them an e-mail inquiry and was told don't bother us till a year or so in advance since they wouldn't discuss costs or what they would or wouldn't allow. They also said they were mostly pre booked for other commitments from other users who have been there annually and wouldn't discuss what time they had free. Since I wasn't anyones representative I had no way of assuring them we would pay their fees or make any guarantees to elicit a response. I tried phoning and got a similar brush off.
          >
          > In any case that was not conducive to generating a proposal if availability dates and costs and amenities were not available to incorporate in it. So the group I've joined hasn't come up with anything positive so far. Well as I mentioned I heard at the Kingdom officers meeting that a proposal was sent to the BOD from the other group here. I asked around and found out Brocc's name, but nothing more. So I went to the meeting and was aboe to speak to those members of the other group, there. I've invited as many as I have addresses for to join the group I'm with and at least one has just joi9ned yesterday, but only as a professed observer , to see if we come up with useful information for them to use in their planning and bid generation.
          >
          > So we now have one group working in private and another with less product at present, wishing to either help or do it themselves and a modest level of contact between them. If others outside these two groups are also doing the samem I don't know about it right now.
          >
          > So getting back to your question, who to send information to and work with? Beats me. My recommendation is ask a sympathetic Crown to make that determination for the Kingdom, and see where it leads.
          >
          > As for the Equestrian community - that is, us - I think simply doing what we currently are doing, but with the concious goal of doing it to make 50th year better, IF THE WEST GETS BOD APPROVAL TO HOLD IT HERE, and doing it so the bidding croup is able to consider a comprehensive Equestrian proposal of what we, The Equestrian Community can and wish to do at 50th, so it can be pl;anned for and be incorporated in the BID proposal.
          >
          > For instance, if we could say that we can provide:
          > a) an Equestrrian Autocrat individual or Autocrat team to organise and or run the Equestrian event(s)
          > b) provide a selection of event equipment and helpers
          > c) provide events and competitions that either The West or other Kingdoms set up and run as the event schedule and member participation and interest allows
          > d)are able to provide any needed set up funding, to later be reimbursed from participant fees
          > e)have adequate designated space and facilities set aside and approval of scheduled activiteies from the site owner and overall event Autocrat
          > f) Have adequate supplies of horses and equipment lined up and available as may be needed by the participants who wish to do so.
          >
          > and any other pertenant requirements that may be determined. Then we could tell the bidders what they need to put in theor bid and what they need to get from the site and they in turn could tell us what limitations we would need to accept if the chosen site to use in the bid were used.
          >
          > I was told that Pleasanton has a race track ( but I have never seen it or what if any stalls or other associated structures there may be on site and possibly available to an equestrian group using that site) and that Thoroughbed horses train on it daily till 10 AM. Is this true during the expected time ( May 1 thru May 10 or possibly May 16, 2016) or can we negotiate some other schedule then? Or, if it is true can we work around it, especially if night illumination is available or if only afternoon activities is all the time we might need?
          >
          > The people in the bidding group who were asking about the horse use at the Pleasanton Fair Grounds were not experienced Equestrian event holders or participants, nor were they concerned about horse use at all, other than as almost an afterthought.
          >
          > That is why I think we need to develop ourselves into a coherant body that not only knows what it wants at 50th but knows what it can provide for SCA members to lure them here to "come play with us". Then we will be able to tell the bidding group what that is, so the bidding group can understand what they need to select the bid site to be able to provide. And they will then be able to tell the BOD what their bid can give the event if held here in The West Kingdom.
          >
          > I completely agree that on site stabling would be great and plan to inspect the place when I go there the next time.
          >
          > Henrik
          >
          > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
          >
          > --- In WestKingdomEQ@yahoogroups.com, Nancy Reimers <nancyreimers@> wrote:
          > >
          > > Henrik,
          > >
          > > I completely hear you on "if you don't build it, they can't come"
          > >
          > > I actually spent a little time googling for horse wranglers in CA and came
          > > up with a list (which is at home, I'm on an airplane).
          > >
          > > I do think a rental string of 10 horses would potentially cover us for most
          > > days.
          > >
          > > The question becomes who would like to make some phone calls and get some
          > > estimates?
          > >
          > > And
          > >
          > > Who is on the committee that we should send information to?
          > >
          > > Unless feed and fuel prices reverse their trend. I suspect average rental
          > > cost will probably be around $120 to $150 per day in a few years. The only
          > > limitation I see on rentals is folks willingness to pay for them. Stock
          > > contractors should be able to state the minimum number of rentals they are
          > > willing to travel for.
          > >
          > > It also would be good to know what stabling is available on site and what
          > > the approximate cost would be. At some point stabling becomes cheaper and
          > > easier than hauling especially if you need to add multiple trucks and
          > > trailers.
          > >
          > > No more wifi. Type at you later.
          > >
          > > Else
          > >
          >
        • Nancy Reimers
          ... Yes, there is a racetrack there. Yes, there will be training during the time you are asking unless something catastrophic happens to the racing industry
          Message 4 of 28 , Jul 15, 2011
          • 0 Attachment


            On Jul 14, 2011 11:41 AM, "Tori" <jessimare@...> wrote:
            >
            >  
            >
            > Hi.
            >  
            > I have some information for you regarding the Pleasanton fairgrounds.  Yes, there is a racetrack there.  Yes, there will be training during the time you are asking unless something catastrophic happens to the racing industry before that time.  Yes, there is onsite stabling but we will most likely not have access to it, as the stalls are for the racehorses.  The trainers will get really touchy about having to share space (and the likelihood of there being much open stabling is slim.)
            >  
            > I attend a yearly TB sale there and the last 4 years, we haven't had access to the stabling so we've had to set up portable canvas stalls which quite frankly cost a lot and were not the best answer.  Possibly we could find portable pens for less. 

            Arianwen or Genevieve,

            From looking at the building specs it looked like Building J was. 220 by 220 covered livestock area and that the fair could provide livestock panels. Depending on cost and what other plans the committee had for the building, that might work

            Have either of you seen the building I am thinking of?

            Thoughts, opinions?

            Else

          • Dianne Karp
            YOur Grace, If I were still the KEO, I would say to you.... You feel strongly about this - please go gather the data and bring it back to me . Sounds like you
            Message 5 of 28 , Jul 15, 2011
            • 0 Attachment
              YOur Grace,

              If I were still the KEO, I would say to you...."You feel strongly about this - please go gather the data and bring it back to me".  Sounds like you are volunteering to be the eqMiC!

              Just sayin'

              Siobhan

              On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 11:20 PM, henrikofhavn <henriksd5@...> wrote:


              I for one, was pissed that nothing big has happened since 30th year and began seeking information if anyone here in the west was doing anything about 50th year, over a year ago. Ultimately I found that the group that began thinking about it in 2007 had formed a

              So getting back to your question, who to send information to and work with? Beats me. My recommendation is ask a sympathetic Crown to make that determination for the Kingdom, and see where it leads.

              As for the Equestrian community - that is, us - I think simply doing what we currently are doing, but with the concious goal of doing it to make 50th year better, IF THE WEST GETS BOD APPROVAL TO HOLD IT HERE, and doing it so the bidding croup is able to consider a comprehensive Equestrian proposal of what we, The Equestrian Community can and wish to do at 50th, so it can be pl;anned for and be incorporated in the BID proposal.

              For instance, if we could say that we can provide:
              a) an Equestrrian Autocrat individual or Autocrat team to organise and or run the Equestrian event(s)
              b) provide a selection of event equipment and helpers
              c) provide events and competitions that either The West or other Kingdoms set up and run as the event schedule and member participation and interest allows
              d)are able to provide any needed set up funding, to later be reimbursed from participant fees
              e)have adequate designated space and facilities set aside and approval of scheduled activiteies from the site owner and overall event Autocrat
              f) Have adequate supplies of horses and equipment lined up and available as may be needed by the participants who wish to do so.

              a


            • Cliveden Chew Haas
              Henrik-- This is the 50-year celebration in 2016 we are talking about, right? I will be very glad to help with planning and running the equestrian events. It
              Message 6 of 28 , Jul 15, 2011
              • 0 Attachment
                Henrik--

                This is the 50-year celebration in 2016 we are talking about, right? I
                will be very glad to help with planning and running the equestrian
                events. It will be a blast!! It's been a long time since I hauled
                horses to an SCA event . . . .

                I think you are right in terms of interest, but many people who are
                interested and who mean to be there will not actually come through.
                Things happen, funds don't materialize, the planned savings never
                happen, they have to watch the kids, etc., etc. Rental availability in
                the 10-20 horse range will probably be plenty for even a very large
                event, especially if rentals are broken down into half-day and full-day
                pricing. Depending on the grounds, a lot of people may just want a
                chance to go for a trail ride in garb. Ealasaid nicChlurain and I had a
                lot of fun wandering around the Texas event on our horses and watching
                what was going on. A great way to spend a pleasant couple of hours on
                horseback. We might want to organize a couple of "medieval trail rides"
                at specified times for folks (own horses or rentals) with some
                experienced horse people on hand to keep an eye on things.

                A site a bit further out from town would give us more room and more
                ability to set up a believable medieval encampment, of course.

                Pipe pens work well for horses hauling in, as long as they are
                reasonably sized. That was all we had in Burnet, as I recall. The
                worst problem is strange horses arguing over the fences, which is where
                stalls have a big advantage. Finding some way to break them up into
                sections or leave empties at intervals can help keep things a lot calmer.

                Cliveden

                On 7/15/2011 9:21 AM, Dianne Karp wrote:
                > YOur Grace,
                >
                > If I were still the KEO, I would say to you...."You feel strongly about
                > this - please go gather the data and bring it back to me". Sounds like
                > you are volunteering to be the eqMiC!
                >
                > Just sayin'
                >
                > Siobhan
                >
                > On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 11:20 PM, henrikofhavn <henriksd5@...
                > <mailto:henriksd5@...>> wrote:
                >
                > __
                >
                >
                > I for one, was pissed that nothing big has happened since 30th year
                > and began seeking information if anyone here in the west was doing
                > anything about 50th year, over a year ago. Ultimately I found that
                > the group that began thinking about it in 2007 had formed a
                >
                > So getting back to your question, who to send information to and
                > work with? Beats me. My recommendation is ask a sympathetic Crown to
                > make that determination for the Kingdom, and see where it leads.
                >
                > As for the Equestrian community - that is, us - I think simply doing
                > what we currently are doing, but with the concious goal of doing it
                > to make 50th year better, IF THE WEST GETS BOD APPROVAL TO HOLD IT
                > HERE, and doing it so the bidding croup is able to consider a
                > comprehensive Equestrian proposal of what we, The Equestrian
                > Community can and wish to do at 50th, so it can be pl;anned for and
                > be incorporated in the BID proposal.
                >
                > For instance, if we could say that we can provide:
                > a) an Equestrrian Autocrat individual or Autocrat team to organise
                > and or run the Equestrian event(s)
                > b) provide a selection of event equipment and helpers
                > c) provide events and competitions that either The West or other
                > Kingdoms set up and run as the event schedule and member
                > participation and interest allows
                > d)are able to provide any needed set up funding, to later be
                > reimbursed from participant fees
                > e)have adequate designated space and facilities set aside and
                > approval of scheduled activiteies from the site owner and overall
                > event Autocrat
                > f) Have adequate supplies of horses and equipment lined up and
                > available as may be needed by the participants who wish to do so.
                >
                > a
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > __________ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus
                > signature database 6292 (20110713) __________
                >
                > The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus.
                >
                > http://www.eset.com
              • Tori
                I *believe,* and I could be wrong here, that is either the building where they have typically housed the goats/etc. which could work for setting up pens, or
                Message 7 of 28 , Jul 15, 2011
                • 0 Attachment
                  I *believe,* and I could be wrong here, that is either the building where they have typically housed the goats/etc. which could work for setting up pens, or that is the area where they typically put us with our canvas stalls.  Not perfect but both would be workable for pens.  If it is where we are usually at, it is really far away from everything else.  Which could be good or bad.  The likelihood of people just wandering over to check things out is much less.
                   
                  Now the question is, where do we ride?  I haven't seen anything standing that would work in my trips there, but if the fairgrounds would be willing to set up panels that would help a lot.  If they are willing to work with us as far as getting a workable arena up (they might be, I know our yearling sales group doesn't bring them a whole lot of revenue, which is possibly one of the reasons they are such a pain in the @ss to work with!  If they were getting paid a bit more it might sweeten their "try."
                   
                   
                  ~Arianwen

                   
                  Neca Eos Omnes.  Deus Suos Agnoset.


                  --- On Fri, 7/15/11, Nancy Reimers <nancyreimers@...> wrote:

                  From: Nancy Reimers <nancyreimers@...>
                  Subject: Re: [WestKingdomEQ] Re: Horses in the Mists and future possible developments
                  To: "Tori" <jessimare@...>
                  Cc: WestKingdomEQ@yahoogroups.com, "henrikofhavn" <henriksd5@...>
                  Date: Friday, July 15, 2011, 8:21 AM


                  On Jul 14, 2011 11:41 AM, "Tori" <jessimare@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >  
                  >
                  > Hi.
                  >  
                  > I have some information for you regarding the Pleasanton fairgrounds.  Yes, there is a racetrack there.  Yes, there will be training during the time you are asking unless something catastrophic happens to the racing industry before that time.  Yes, there is onsite stabling but we will most likely not have access to it, as the stalls are for the racehorses.  The trainers will get really touchy about having to share space (and the likelihood of there being much open stabling is slim.)
                  >  
                  > I attend a yearly TB sale there and the last 4 years, we haven't had access to the stabling so we've had to set up portable canvas stalls which quite frankly cost a lot and were not the best answer.  Possibly we could find portable pens for less. 
                  Arianwen or Genevieve,
                  From looking at the building specs it looked like Building J was. 220 by 220 covered livestock area and that the fair could provide livestock panels. Depending on cost and what other plans the committee had for the building, that might work
                  Have either of you seen the building I am thinking of?
                  Thoughts, opinions?
                  Else
                • Dianne Karp
                  This PDF has a map - scroll down http://www.alamedacountyfair.com/pdf/Buiding_layouts/Building_Sheets_All.pdf The building Arianwyn is talking about is, most
                  Message 8 of 28 , Jul 15, 2011
                  • 0 Attachment
                    This PDF has a map - scroll down

                    http://www.alamedacountyfair.com/pdf/Buiding_layouts/Building_Sheets_All.pdf

                    The building Arianwyn is talking about is, most likely Building J.  If you are looking at the map, it is to the 'left' of the grandstand near a 'paddock'.

                    It is unlikely we would have anywhere to ride.

                    S

                    On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 6:53 PM, Tori <jessimare@...> wrote:
                     

                    I *believe,* and I could be wrong here, that is either the building where they have typically housed the goats/etc. which could work for setting up pens, or that is the area where they typically put us with our canvas stalls.  Not perfect but both would be workable for pens.  If it is where we are usually at, it is really far away from everything else.  Which could be good or bad.  The likelihood of people just wandering over to check things out is much less.
                     
                    Now the question is, where do we ride?  I haven't seen anything standing that would work in my trips there, but if the fairgrounds would be willing to set up panels that would help a lot.  If they are willing to work with us as far as getting a workable arena up (they might be, I know our yearling sales group doesn't bring them a whole lot of revenue, which is possibly one of the reasons they are such a pain in the @ss to work with!  If they were getting paid a bit more it might sweeten their "try."
                     
                     
                    ~Arianwen

                     
                    Neca Eos Omnes.  Deus Suos Agnoset.


                    --- On Fri, 7/15/11, Nancy Reimers <nancyreimers@...> wrote:

                    From: Nancy Reimers <nancyreimers@...>
                    Subject: Re: [WestKingdomEQ] Re: Horses in the Mists and future possible developments
                    To: "Tori" <jessimare@...>
                    Cc: WestKingdomEQ@yahoogroups.com, "henrikofhavn" <henriksd5@...>
                    Date: Friday, July 15, 2011, 8:21 AM


                    On Jul 14, 2011 11:41 AM, "Tori" <jessimare@...> wrote:
                    >
                    >  
                    >
                    > Hi.
                    >  
                    > I have some information for you regarding the Pleasanton fairgrounds.  Yes, there is a racetrack there.  Yes, there will be training during the time you are asking unless something catastrophic happens to the racing industry before that time.  Yes, there is onsite stabling but we will most likely not have access to it, as the stalls are for the racehorses.  The trainers will get really touchy about having to share space (and the likelihood of there being much open stabling is slim.)
                    >  
                    > I attend a yearly TB sale there and the last 4 years, we haven't had access to the stabling so we've had to set up portable canvas stalls which quite frankly cost a lot and were not the best answer.  Possibly we could find portable pens for less. 
                    Arianwen or Genevieve,
                    From looking at the building specs it looked like Building J was. 220 by 220 covered livestock area and that the fair could provide livestock panels. Depending on cost and what other plans the committee had for the building, that might work
                    Have either of you seen the building I am thinking of?
                    Thoughts, opinions?
                    Else




                    --
                    Siobhan ni Seaghdha, OP
                    Dianne Karp

                  • henrikofhavn
                    I suppose I am volunteering. I ll need help, and Cliveden, I ll be happy to have your help, along with a few others. Henrik
                    Message 9 of 28 , Jul 16, 2011
                    • 0 Attachment
                      I suppose I am volunteering. I'll need help, and Cliveden, I'll be happy to have your help, along with a few others.

                      Henrik

                      ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

                      --- In WestKingdomEQ@yahoogroups.com, Dianne Karp <diannekarp@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > YOur Grace,
                      >
                      > If I were still the KEO, I would say to you...."You feel strongly about this
                      > - please go gather the data and bring it back to me". Sounds like you are
                      > volunteering to be the eqMiC!
                      >
                      > Just sayin'
                      >
                      > Siobhan
                      >
                      > On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 11:20 PM, henrikofhavn <henriksd5@...>wrote:
                      >
                      > > **
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > I for one, was pissed that nothing big has happened since 30th year and
                      > > began seeking information if anyone here in the west was doing anything
                      > > about 50th year, over a year ago. Ultimately I found that the group that
                      > > began thinking about it in 2007 had formed a
                      > >
                      > > So getting back to your question, who to send information to and work with?
                      > > Beats me. My recommendation is ask a sympathetic Crown to make that
                      > > determination for the Kingdom, and see where it leads.
                      > >
                      > > As for the Equestrian community - that is, us - I think simply doing what
                      > > we currently are doing, but with the concious goal of doing it to make 50th
                      > > year better, IF THE WEST GETS BOD APPROVAL TO HOLD IT HERE, and doing it so
                      > > the bidding croup is able to consider a comprehensive Equestrian proposal of
                      > > what we, The Equestrian Community can and wish to do at 50th, so it can be
                      > > pl;anned for and be incorporated in the BID proposal.
                      > >
                      > > For instance, if we could say that we can provide:
                      > > a) an Equestrrian Autocrat individual or Autocrat team to organise and or
                      > > run the Equestrian event(s)
                      > > b) provide a selection of event equipment and helpers
                      > > c) provide events and competitions that either The West or other Kingdoms
                      > > set up and run as the event schedule and member participation and interest
                      > > allows
                      > > d)are able to provide any needed set up funding, to later be reimbursed
                      > > from participant fees
                      > > e)have adequate designated space and facilities set aside and approval of
                      > > scheduled activiteies from the site owner and overall event Autocrat
                      > > f) Have adequate supplies of horses and equipment lined up and available as
                      > > may be needed by the participants who wish to do so.
                      > >
                      > > a
                      > >
                      >
                    • henrikofhavn
                      One of the things about the Pleasanton Fairgrounds location, that was mentioned at the BOD meeting , is that accross the street( somewhere) is some currently
                      Message 10 of 28 , Jul 16, 2011
                      • 0 Attachment
                        One of the things about the Pleasanton Fairgrounds location, that was mentioned at the BOD meeting , is that accross the street( somewhere) is some currently vacant land that is being reserved for some sort of development in the future. I understand that there is some sort of contention between the owners and other powers over future development and use this land, and that in a few years ( 2 perhaps ?) a resolution may have been reached.

                        Depending on what , if any, resolution is arrived at, it may stay vacant thru May of 2016. If this occurs it may be possible to rent access for either overflow camping there( if needed) or conceivably some sort of equestrian activity, be it simple trail riding ( around possibly a vacant lot or some larger area? I havn't seen it yet to be able to know what posibilities exist.), or possibly setting up an entire Equestrian activity area independent of any Fair Ground horse facilities - if this proves more desirable to us. Right now it's just a big questionmark, but one with potential benefit to us, if it seems needed.

                        As I said before , in 1986 we only had a racetrack to set up our equestrian activity on. We used a part of the straight section and simply set up our equipment and had the riders ride onto the track from the infield ( where our table and shade was set up) and go over to the game they were making their entry into and either practice or compete as needed. All non participants remained off the track - usually in the infield and ground crew worked on and off the track as needed. The infield railing had gaps, as I recall so access was not difficult and we stayed as close to a convenient one as possible.

                        It's not necessary to have an enclosure around the games area for the activity to take place. Mainly a flat and sufficiently large area with good footing is all we minimally need, pretty much anywhere. We can bring fencing or ropes and stakes to cordon off a suitable area for the horse activity and if needed another for spectators. The infleid area would be a great location to set up pavillionms for spectators to sit in, especially for a Gallery viewing area - all of course assuming permission to do so were provided to us.

                        So if the only thing we can get horses on, is the race track after 10:00 Am daily, I believe we can work with that, and still have a great event. And at this stage , other posibilities haven't been ruled out.

                        Henrik


                        ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


                        --- In WestKingdomEQ@yahoogroups.com, Dianne Karp <diannekarp@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > This PDF has a map - scroll down
                        >
                        > http://www.alamedacountyfair.com/pdf/Buiding_layouts/Building_Sheets_All.pdf
                        >
                        > The building Arianwyn is talking about is, most likely Building J. If you
                        > are looking at the map, it is to the 'left' of the grandstand near a
                        > 'paddock'.
                        >
                        > It is unlikely we would have anywhere to ride.
                        >
                        > S
                        >
                        > On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 6:53 PM, Tori <jessimare@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > > **
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > I *believe,* and I could be wrong here, that is either the building where
                        > > they have typically housed the goats/etc. which could work for setting up
                        > > pens, or that is the area where they typically put us with our canvas
                        > > stalls. Not perfect but both would be workable for pens. If it is where we
                        > > are usually at, it is really far away from everything else. Which could be
                        > > good or bad. The likelihood of people just wandering over to check things
                        > > out is much less.
                        > >
                        > > Now the question is, where do we ride? I haven't seen anything standing
                        > > that would work in my trips there, but if the fairgrounds would be willing
                        > > to set up panels that would help a lot. If they are willing to work with us
                        > > as far as getting a workable arena up (they might be, I know our yearling
                        > > sales group doesn't bring them a whole lot of revenue, which is possibly one
                        > > of the reasons they are such a pain in the @ss to work with! If they were
                        > > getting paid a bit more it might sweeten their "try."
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > ~Arianwen
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > *Neca Eos Omnes. Deus Suos Agnoset.*
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > --- On *Fri, 7/15/11, Nancy Reimers <nancyreimers@...>* wrote:
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > From: Nancy Reimers <nancyreimers@...>
                        > > Subject: Re: [WestKingdomEQ] Re: Horses in the Mists and future possible
                        > > developments
                        > > To: "Tori" <jessimare@...>
                        > > Cc: WestKingdomEQ@yahoogroups.com, "henrikofhavn" <henriksd5@...>
                        > > Date: Friday, July 15, 2011, 8:21 AM
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > On Jul 14, 2011 11:41 AM, "Tori" <jessimare@...<http://us.mc1117.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=jessimare@...>>
                        > > wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > >
                        > > > Hi.
                        > > >
                        > > > I have some information for you regarding the Pleasanton fairgrounds.
                        > > Yes, there is a racetrack there. Yes, there will be training during the
                        > > time you are asking unless something catastrophic happens to the racing
                        > > industry before that time. Yes, there is onsite stabling but we will most
                        > > likely not have access to it, as the stalls are for the racehorses. The
                        > > trainers will get really touchy about having to share space (and the
                        > > likelihood of there being much open stabling is slim.)
                        > > >
                        > > > I attend a yearly TB sale there and the last 4 years, we haven't had
                        > > access to the stabling so we've had to set up portable canvas stalls which
                        > > quite frankly cost a lot and were not the best answer. Possibly we could
                        > > find portable pens for less.
                        > > Arianwen or Genevieve,
                        > > From looking at the building specs it looked like Building J was. 220 by
                        > > 220 covered livestock area and that the fair could provide livestock panels.
                        > > Depending on cost and what other plans the committee had for the building,
                        > > that might work
                        > > Have either of you seen the building I am thinking of?
                        > > Thoughts, opinions?
                        > > Else
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > --
                        > Siobhan ni Seaghdha, OP
                        > Dianne Karp
                        >
                      • Tori
                        Your Grace;   I am 99% sure they will not allow us any access to the track.  This is one of the main training tracks in Northern California, the sheer amount
                        Message 11 of 28 , Jul 17, 2011
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Your Grace;
                           
                          I am 99% sure they will not allow us any access to the track.  This is one of the main training tracks in Northern California, the sheer amount of grooming that happens to keep this track in shape for the vast quantity of horses training over it every morning at 5am makes it highly unlikely they'll let us tromp all over it. They would have to tidy it up again each evening when we are done.  Again, I'm not positive.
                           
                          Perhaps it would be a good idea to get together a set of questions regarding the facility and call the fairgrounds?
                           
                          ~Arianwen

                           
                          Neca Eos Omnes.  Deus Suos Agnoset.


                          --- On Sat, 7/16/11, henrikofhavn <henriksd5@...> wrote:

                          From: henrikofhavn <henriksd5@...>
                          Subject: [WestKingdomEQ] Re: Horses in the Mists and future possible developments
                          To: WestKingdomEQ@yahoogroups.com
                          Date: Saturday, July 16, 2011, 12:33 AM

                           
                          One of the things about the Pleasanton Fairgrounds location, that was mentioned at the BOD meeting , is that accross the street( somewhere) is some currently vacant land that is being reserved for some sort of development in the future. I understand that there is some sort of contention between the owners and other powers over future development and use this land, and that in a few years ( 2 perhaps ?) a resolution may have been reached.

                          Depending on what , if any, resolution is arrived at, it may stay vacant thru May of 2016. If this occurs it may be possible to rent access for either overflow camping there( if needed) or conceivably some sort of equestrian activity, be it simple trail riding ( around possibly a vacant lot or some larger area? I havn't seen it yet to be able to know what posibilities exist.), or possibly setting up an entire Equestrian activity area independent of any Fair Ground horse facilities - if this proves more desirable to us. Right now it's just a big questionmark, but one with potential benefit to us, if it seems needed.

                          As I said before , in 1986 we only had a racetrack to set up our equestrian activity on. We used a part of the straight section and simply set up our equipment and had the riders ride onto the track from the infield ( where our table and shade was set up) and go over to the game they were making their entry into and either practice or compete as needed. All non participants remained off the track - usually in the infield and ground crew worked on and off the track as needed. The infield railing had gaps, as I recall so access was not difficult and we stayed as close to a convenient one as possible.

                          It's not necessary to have an enclosure around the games area for the activity to take place. Mainly a flat and sufficiently large area with good footing is all we minimally need, pretty much anywhere. We can bring fencing or ropes and stakes to cordon off a suitable area for the horse activity and if needed another for spectators. The infleid area would be a great location to set up pavillionms for spectators to sit in, especially for a Gallery viewing area - all of course assuming permission to do so were provided to us.

                          So if the only thing we can get horses on, is the race track after 10:00 Am daily, I believe we can work with that, and still have a great event. And at this stage , other posibilities haven't been ruled out.

                          Henrik

                          ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

                          --- In WestKingdomEQ@yahoogroups.com, Dianne Karp <diannekarp@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > This PDF has a map - scroll down
                          >
                          > http://www.alamedacountyfair.com/pdf/Buiding_layouts/Building_Sheets_All.pdf
                          >
                          > The building Arianwyn is talking about is, most likely Building J. If you
                          > are looking at the map, it is to the 'left' of the grandstand near a
                          > 'paddock'.
                          >
                          > It is unlikely we would have anywhere to ride.
                          >
                          > S
                          >
                          > On Fri, Jul 15, 2011 at 6:53 PM, Tori <jessimare@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > > **
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > I *believe,* and I could be wrong here, that is either the building where
                          > > they have typically housed the goats/etc. which could work for setting up
                          > > pens, or that is the area where they typically put us with our canvas
                          > > stalls. Not perfect but both would be workable for pens. If it is where we
                          > > are usually at, it is really far away from everything else. Which could be
                          > > good or bad. The likelihood of people just wandering over to check things
                          > > out is much less.
                          > >
                          > > Now the question is, where do we ride? I haven't seen anything standing
                          > > that would work in my trips there, but if the fairgrounds would be willing
                          > > to set up panels that would help a lot. If they are willing to work with us
                          > > as far as getting a workable arena up (they might be, I know our yearling
                          > > sales group doesn't bring them a whole lot of revenue, which is possibly one
                          > > of the reasons they are such a pain in the @ss to work with! If they were
                          > > getting paid a bit more it might sweeten their "try."
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > ~Arianwen
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > *Neca Eos Omnes. Deus Suos Agnoset.*
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > --- On *Fri, 7/15/11, Nancy Reimers <nancyreimers@...>* wrote:
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > From: Nancy Reimers <nancyreimers@...>
                          > > Subject: Re: [WestKingdomEQ] Re: Horses in the Mists and future possible
                          > > developments
                          > > To: "Tori" <jessimare@...>
                          > > Cc: WestKingdomEQ@yahoogroups.com, "henrikofhavn" <henriksd5@...>
                          > > Date: Friday, July 15, 2011, 8:21 AM
                          > >
                          > >
                          > > On Jul 14, 2011 11:41 AM, "Tori" <jessimare@...<http://us.mc1117.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=jessimare@...>>
                          > > wrote:
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > >
                          > > > Hi.
                          > > >
                          > > > I have some information for you regarding the Pleasanton fairgrounds.
                          > > Yes, there is a racetrack there. Yes, there will be training during the
                          > > time you are asking unless something catastrophic happens to the racing
                          > > industry before that time. Yes, there is onsite stabling but we will most
                          > > likely not have access to it, as the stalls are for the racehorses. The
                          > > trainers will get really touchy about having to share space (and the
                          > > likelihood of there being much open stabling is slim.)
                          > > >
                          > > > I attend a yearly TB sale there and the last 4 years, we haven't had
                          > > access to the stabling so we've had to set up portable canvas stalls which
                          > > quite frankly cost a lot and were not the best answer. Possibly we could
                          > > find portable pens for less.
                          > > Arianwen or Genevieve,
                          > > From looking at the building specs it looked like Building J was. 220 by
                          > > 220 covered livestock area and that the fair could provide livestock panels.
                          > > Depending on cost and what other plans the committee had for the building,
                          > > that might work
                          > > Have either of you seen the building I am thinking of?
                          > > Thoughts, opinions?
                          > > Else
                          > >
                          > >
                          > >
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > --
                          > Siobhan ni Seaghdha, OP
                          > Dianne Karp
                          >

                        • henrikofhavn
                          Thank you, My Lady for bringing this up. Well, the group that produced the bid for the West was doing so on their own initiative, as far as I can determine,
                          Message 12 of 28 , Jul 17, 2011
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Thank you, My Lady for bringing this up.

                            Well, the group that produced the bid for the West was doing so on their own initiative, as far as I can determine, and aparently didn't have much , if any discussion with the Fairgrounds managers/owners , or whoever they were in contact with, about horses at this event. I suspect horses were only spoken of during the conversations at the BOD meeting and may not be included in their bid document itself. All I do know is one of the bid committee representives said to me that he thought the track could be used after 10 AM, when the thoroughbreds were done with it for the day. If this was his interpretation or the Fair's declaration is not known.

                            In any case, I feel this shows that any committee working on behalf of the Kingdom, should be doing so under the direction of some sort of authority such as the Crown, and not simply their own assumption of what needs to be done and their desire to act. The Crown should direct them in what activities to plan for and this should include all the Kingdom's and Society's major kinds of activity - includig equestrian activities.

                            The sites being investigated and considrered for use in the bid document that is drafted on behalf of the Kingdom, should be evaluated on the basis of several considerations. Among these should be location, cost, availability, size, facilities and amenities, access to transportation capabilities - local, regional and international - and any other qualities that may be deemed important.

                            Local special interest parties and groups should be informewd as the potential sites are being investigated and evaluated , so they can add their input and recommendations for further inquiries and considerations of the suitability of particular sites ( such as can we use the track at Pleasanton, and if not, what other options are possible instead?).

                            Henrik

                            ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

                            --- In WestKingdomEQ@yahoogroups.com, Tori <jessimare@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Your Grace;
                            >  
                            > I am 99% sure they will not allow us any access to the track.  This is one of the main training tracks in Northern California, the sheer amount of grooming that happens to keep this track in shape for the vast quantity of horses training over it every morning at 5am makes it highly unlikely they'll let us tromp all over it. They would have to tidy it up again each evening when we are done.  Again, I'm not positive.
                            >  
                            > Perhaps it would be a good idea to get together a set of questions regarding the facility and call the fairgrounds?
                            >  
                            > ~Arianwen
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >  
                            > Neca Eos Omnes.  Deus Suos Agnoset.
                            >
                          • Rachael Keish
                            My kids will be 6 and 9 by then, so I should be able to help if we can manage to find a place to ride sat the fairgrounds and get in with the people putting
                            Message 13 of 28 , Jul 19, 2011
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                              My kids will be 6 and 9 by then, so I should be able to help if we can manage to find a place to ride sat the fairgrounds and get in with the people putting the bid together. 

                              I can understand why they don't open up the bid process - frankly, its next to impossible to do anything by committee, and sometimes you just have to get your staff of motivated people together, do your best, and put it out there with what you can.  I won't knock others' volunteer efforts - heck, *I* didn't step forward to try and do a bid, now, did I?  If they hadn't put a bid together, we wouldn't have the potential option to have 50-year nearby, so no complaints here!  If they were to ask, however, my constructive feedback would be to discreetly ping the Kingdom officers to ask for input in the future when planning endeavors of this magnitude. :-)

                              :-), Marguerite

                              On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 12:00 AM, henrikofhavn <henriksd5@...> wrote:
                              I suppose I am volunteering. I'll need help, and Cliveden, I'll be happy to have your help, along with a few others.

                              Henrik

                              ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

                              --- In WestKingdomEQ@yahoogroups.com, Dianne Karp <diannekarp@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > YOur Grace,
                              >
                              > If I were still the KEO, I would say to you...."You feel strongly about this
                              > - please go gather the data and bring it back to me".  Sounds like you are
                              > volunteering to be the eqMiC!
                              >
                              > Just sayin'
                              >
                              > Siobhan
                              >
                              > On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 11:20 PM, henrikofhavn <henriksd5@...>wrote:
                              >
                              > > **
                              > >
                              > >
                              > > I for one, was pissed that nothing big has happened since 30th year and
                              > > began seeking information if anyone here in the west was doing anything
                              > > about 50th year, over a year ago. Ultimately I found that the group that
                              > > began thinking about it in 2007 had formed a
                              > >
                              > > So getting back to your question, who to send information to and work with?
                              > > Beats me. My recommendation is ask a sympathetic Crown to make that
                              > > determination for the Kingdom, and see where it leads.
                              > >
                              > > As for the Equestrian community - that is, us - I think simply doing what
                              > > we currently are doing, but with the concious goal of doing it to make 50th
                              > > year better, IF THE WEST GETS BOD APPROVAL TO HOLD IT HERE, and doing it so
                              > > the bidding croup is able to consider a comprehensive Equestrian proposal of
                              > > what we, The Equestrian Community can and wish to do at 50th, so it can be
                              > > pl;anned for and be incorporated in the BID proposal.
                              > >
                              > > For instance, if we could say that we can provide:
                              > > a) an Equestrrian Autocrat individual or Autocrat team to organise and or
                              > > run the Equestrian event(s)
                              > > b) provide a selection of event equipment and helpers
                              > > c) provide events and competitions that either The West or other Kingdoms
                              > > set up and run as the event schedule and member participation and interest
                              > > allows
                              > > d)are able to provide any needed set up funding, to later be reimbursed
                              > > from participant fees
                              > > e)have adequate designated space and facilities set aside and approval of
                              > > scheduled activiteies from the site owner and overall event Autocrat
                              > > f) Have adequate supplies of horses and equipment lined up and available as
                              > > may be needed by the participants who wish to do so.
                              > >
                              > > a
                              > >
                              >




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                            • Dianne Karp
                              The committee members have been actively searching for a site for 2 years now. I know because they asked me about potential sites in Reno two years ago. A
                              Message 14 of 28 , Jul 19, 2011
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                                The committee members have been actively searching for a site for 2 years now.  I know because they asked me about potential sites in Reno two years ago.  A site big enough with easy access to an international airport is not easy to find.  If they find one, but we can not have horses, we may need to simply sincerely thank them for their efforts.

                                Given that Kingdom officers change every 2 years and royalty more often, it is not reasonable to expect this to be orchestrated at the kingdom officer level.

                                Siobhan

                                On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 9:35 PM, Rachael Keish <rachaelo@...> wrote:
                                 

                                My kids will be 6 and 9 by then, so I should be able to help if we can manage to find a place to ride sat the fairgrounds and get in with the people putting the bid together. 

                                I can understand why they don't open up the bid process - frankly, its next to impossible to do anything by committee, and sometimes you just have to get your staff of motivated people together, do your best, and put it out there with what you can.  I won't knock others' volunteer efforts - heck, *I* didn't step forward to try and do a bid, now, did I?  If they hadn't put a bid together, we wouldn't have the potential option to have 50-year nearby, so no complaints here!  If they were to ask, however, my constructive feedback would be to discreetly ping the Kingdom officers to ask for input in the future when planning endeavors of this magnitude. :-)

                                :-), Marguerite

                                On Sat, Jul 16, 2011 at 12:00 AM, henrikofhavn <henriksd5@...> wrote:
                                I suppose I am volunteering. I'll need help, and Cliveden, I'll be happy to have your help, along with a few others.

                                Henrik

                                ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

                                --- In WestKingdomEQ@yahoogroups.com, Dianne Karp <diannekarp@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > YOur Grace,
                                >
                                > If I were still the KEO, I would say to you...."You feel strongly about this
                                > - please go gather the data and bring it back to me".  Sounds like you are
                                > volunteering to be the eqMiC!
                                >
                                > Just sayin'
                                >
                                > Siobhan
                                >
                                > On Wed, Jul 13, 2011 at 11:20 PM, henrikofhavn <henriksd5@...>wrote:
                                >
                                > > **
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > I for one, was pissed that nothing big has happened since 30th year and
                                > > began seeking information if anyone here in the west was doing anything
                                > > about 50th year, over a year ago. Ultimately I found that the group that
                                > > began thinking about it in 2007 had formed a
                                > >
                                > > So getting back to your question, who to send information to and work with?
                                > > Beats me. My recommendation is ask a sympathetic Crown to make that
                                > > determination for the Kingdom, and see where it leads.
                                > >
                                > > As for the Equestrian community - that is, us - I think simply doing what
                                > > we currently are doing, but with the concious goal of doing it to make 50th
                                > > year better, IF THE WEST GETS BOD APPROVAL TO HOLD IT HERE, and doing it so
                                > > the bidding croup is able to consider a comprehensive Equestrian proposal of
                                > > what we, The Equestrian Community can and wish to do at 50th, so it can be
                                > > pl;anned for and be incorporated in the BID proposal.
                                > >
                                > > For instance, if we could say that we can provide:
                                > > a) an Equestrrian Autocrat individual or Autocrat team to organise and or
                                > > run the Equestrian event(s)
                                > > b) provide a selection of event equipment and helpers
                                > > c) provide events and competitions that either The West or other Kingdoms
                                > > set up and run as the event schedule and member participation and interest
                                > > allows
                                > > d)are able to provide any needed set up funding, to later be reimbursed
                                > > from participant fees
                                > > e)have adequate designated space and facilities set aside and approval of
                                > > scheduled activiteies from the site owner and overall event Autocrat
                                > > f) Have adequate supplies of horses and equipment lined up and available as
                                > > may be needed by the participants who wish to do so.
                                > >
                                > > a
                                > >
                                >




                                ------------------------------------

                                -------------------------------------------------
                                This is not an official SCA email list.

                                -----------------------------------------
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                                ----------------------------------------
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                                --
                                Siobhan ni Seaghdha, OP
                                Dianne Karp

                              • Elsie
                                ... I can be a helper! Websites for various stock contractors: http://www.bayarearidgeriders.com/ http://www.coppervalleytrail.com/rates__packages
                                Message 15 of 28 , Jul 20, 2011
                                • 0 Attachment
                                  --- In WestKingdomEQ@yahoogroups.com, "henrikofhavn" <henriksd5@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > I suppose I am volunteering. I'll need help, and Cliveden, I'll be happy to have your help, along with a few others.
                                  >
                                  > Henrik
                                  >
                                  > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

                                  I can be a helper!

                                  Websites for various stock contractors:

                                  http://www.bayarearidgeriders.com/
                                  http://www.coppervalleytrail.com/rates__packages
                                  http://www.horsenaroundtrailrides.com/Meet_Our_Horses.html
                                  http://www.horserentals.com/seahorse.html
                                  http://www.tlc-stables.com/id3.html
                                  http://www.chaparralcorporation.com/main.html
                                  http://www.jbranch.com/
                                  http://www.philsanimalrentals.com/horses.html
                                  http://www.movielivestock.com/
                                  http://www.laneranch.net/belgiandrafthorses.htm

                                  Some of these are a bit far from Pleasanton, but if there is on site stabling and a guarentee of X numbers of horses rented of Y number of days, there may be interest. Never hurts to ask.

                                  Else
                                • henrikofhavn
                                  Well, it looks like I m being given my head, and when I get back from Comicon, I ll just take the bit in my teeth and start running towards the finish line,
                                  Message 16 of 28 , Jul 21, 2011
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Well, it looks like I'm being given my head, and when I get back from Comicon, I'll just take the bit in my teeth and start running towards the finish line, and see how far I get. I can be a bit of a mudder and I have a lot of heart, perserverance and endurance, which should make up for any lack of speed that I may have. It'l be along journey, but that's what I'm good at.

                                    Elsie, I'll be glad to have you aboard, too. Perhaps we can even fit in buildiing a chariot too, along the way. ( In that regard, I recently met Mike Loades who now resides in Oakland. He's a Brit who has been on a Bunch of History Channel sorts of programs that include horses and weapons and armor. He has a new book out titled "Swords and Swordsmen" that I got from Amazon at a good price. I highly recommend it to everyone interested in both swords and horses, since he illustrates much of his historical accounts with some of his personal experiences doing historical film projects - which include riding in a chariot and engaging in combat from it.)

                                    Henrik

                                    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

                                    --- In WestKingdomEQ@yahoogroups.com, "Elsie" <nancyreimers@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > --- In WestKingdomEQ@yahoogroups.com, "henrikofhavn" <henriksd5@> wrote:
                                    > >
                                    > > I suppose I am volunteering. I'll need help, and Cliveden, I'll be happy to have your help, along with a few others.
                                    > >
                                    > > Henrik
                                    > >
                                    > > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
                                    >
                                    > I can be a helper!
                                    >
                                    > Websites for various stock contractors:
                                    >
                                    > http://www.bayarearidgeriders.com/
                                    > http://www.coppervalleytrail.com/rates__packages
                                    > http://www.horsenaroundtrailrides.com/Meet_Our_Horses.html
                                    > http://www.horserentals.com/seahorse.html
                                    > http://www.tlc-stables.com/id3.html
                                    > http://www.chaparralcorporation.com/main.html
                                    > http://www.jbranch.com/
                                    > http://www.philsanimalrentals.com/horses.html
                                    > http://www.movielivestock.com/
                                    > http://www.laneranch.net/belgiandrafthorses.htm
                                    >
                                    > Some of these are a bit far from Pleasanton, but if there is on site stabling and a guarentee of X numbers of horses rented of Y number of days, there may be interest. Never hurts to ask.
                                    >
                                    > Else
                                    >
                                  • Nancy Reimers
                                    2016? If she is still with us, Crystal will be 29. though if we get something done, I can probably borrow one of her nieces or nephews. Else
                                    Message 17 of 28 , Jul 21, 2011
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                                      2016?  If she is still with us, Crystal will be 29.  'though if we get something done, I can probably borrow one of her nieces or nephews.
                                       
                                      Else

                                      On Thu, Jul 21, 2011 at 4:36 PM, henrikofhavn <henriksd5@...> wrote:
                                       Elsie,  Perhaps we can even fit in buildiing a chariot too, along the way.
                                       
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