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Re: Citizen Disarmament

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  • ANC J. Moheyer (1-a-06)
    Happy Sunday, Dominic, Joshua, and other neighbors, I am so sorry to hear about Alicia. My own household had a personal brush with attempted armed robbery,
    Message 1 of 7 , Feb 1, 2004
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      Happy Sunday,  Dominic, Joshua, and other neighbors,  

      I am so sorry to hear about Alicia.  My own household had a personal "brush" with attempted armed robbery,  so I thought I'd retell it ... and present some interesting points (based upon my own personal experiences)  for contemplation... 

      My own personal experience #1:

      My first year in Ward 1 was awful,  because we used to get break-in attempts at my house EVERY month.    Then last summer,  my housemate (who is an armed Federal Agent) was confronted on our street by an armed assailant who demanded money ... as my housemate obediently reached for his wallet,  his gunholster was revealed, the thug freaked-out and yelped  "Oh $#%@ !!  I didn't know man .... I ain't think you was carrying, " and immediately scampered away.   It's interesting because, ever since that day,  the "shady-elements" of the neighborhood cross the street whenever we/he/I walk by.   Word-is-out that we are armed,   and we've not had ONE attempted break-in since!   It seems that criminals don't like the idea that we can shoot back!!     (Hmph ... Go figure.)

      I offer that as an intriguing example of how "bad guys" back-off when they're not certain who is an easy target.    

      My own personal experience #2:

      I've interviewed many felons guilty of aggravated crimes (armed robbery, assault with a deadly weapon,  etc.),  and they all say the same thing:  .... Criminals try to choose "easy targets" ... (like the lady with the baby buggy this winter) .....  and that IF there's a chance that the "easy target" might NOT be so easy,  criminals TEND TO REFRAIN.

      I agree with Joshua,  no one fancies the idea of "poorly trained citizens shooting wildly at perps".   But as evidenced from my particular experience,   shooting isn't necessary to deter crime.   Again, I'm merely presenting my own personal experiences,  but just to play "devil's advocate" ...  doesn't it seem to suggest that citizen armament (ownership/ carrying, without shooting) could be a passive way to deter crime?

      My own personal experience #3:

      Based on my own conversations with Ward 1 residents,  it's very interesting to note that more of Ward 1 is "pro-armament", than you'd think.  Off-hand, I can name between 65 to 70 people within my ANC alone, who are pro-armament.  Some of them actually have firearms within their homes, with licenses from other states.  (Note:  I do not condone violating D.C. law).  To date, they have not  "shot wildly at suspected perps" ... and they don't plan to  (I've actually asked).    They assure that along with their training and licensing,  they also learned responsible-handling, and a reliance on actual police officers (who have workers-comp insurance and body armor).

      Anyway,  I just thought I'd share some interesting observations of mine,  and conversations I've had over the past year. 

      Thanks again for the opportunity to briefly share my personal experiences .... I appreciate neighbors like you who encourage community-discourse, and also respect the varying opinions that appear.

      Happy February, and have a good week!

      Jenna

    • dcrealtornw@aol.com
      I think we should trust the government to protect us from crime and from our own misuse of guns. Citizens are not competent to handle lead. We must let the
      Message 2 of 7 , Feb 1, 2004
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        I think we should trust the government to protect us from crime and from our own misuse of guns.
         
        Citizens are not competent to handle lead.
         
        We must let the government do it.  They have much more experience with it.  They provide us all the lead we need in our water.
      • Dominic Sale
        Jenna, thanks for sharing your stories.In researching my robbery clearance rate resolution to present at our ANC meeting tomorrow night, I came across these
        Message 3 of 7 , Feb 1, 2004
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          Jenna, thanks for sharing your stories.

          In researching my robbery clearance rate resolution to present at our ANC meeting tomorrow night, I came across these tables from the FBI's Uniform Crime Reports.  I'm interested to know of the most recent justifiable homicide in DC.  This may be one area in which we don't lead the nation.  Do we even have a justifiable homicide provision in DC Code?

          Justifiable Homicide

          by Weapon, Law Enforcement,1 1998-2002

          Year
          Total
          Total
          firearms
          Handguns
          Rifles
          Shotguns
          Firearms,
          type not
          stated
          Knives or
          cutting
          instruments
          Other
          dangerous
          weapons
          Personal
          weapons
          1998369367322151812002
          199930830527411155012
          200030930827414137010
          2001378375318251121030
          200233933529418716130

          1 The killing of a felon by a law enforcement officer in the line of duty.



          Back to Top

          Table 2.17

          Justifiable Homicide

          by Weapon, Private Citizen,1 1998-2002

          Year
          Total
          Total
          firearms
          Handguns
          Rifles
          Shotguns
          Firearms,
          type not
          stated
          Knives or
          cutting
          instruments
          Other
          dangerous
          weapons
          Personal
          weapons
          199819617015061401754
          199919215813751061897
          20001641381234741583
          20012221831431013172667
          2002225184154111362696

          1 The killing of a felon, during the commission of a felony, by a private citizen.


          ----- Original Message -----
          Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 10:54 AM
          Subject: [WardOneDC] Re: Citizen Disarmament

          Happy Sunday,  Dominic, Joshua, and other neighbors,  

          I am so sorry to hear about Alicia.  My own household had a personal "brush" with attempted armed robbery,  so I thought I'd retell it ... and present some interesting points (based upon my own personal experiences)  for contemplation... 

          My own personal experience #1:

          My first year in Ward 1 was awful,  because we used to get break-in attempts at my house EVERY month.    Then last summer,  my housemate (who is an armed Federal Agent) was confronted on our street by an armed assailant who demanded money ... as my housemate obediently reached for his wallet,  his gunholster was revealed, the thug freaked-out and yelped  "Oh $#%@ !!  I didn't know man .... I ain't think you was carrying, " and immediately scampered away.   It's interesting because, ever since that day,  the "shady-elements" of the neighborhood cross the street whenever we/he/I walk by.   Word-is-out that we are armed,   and we've not had ONE attempted break-in since!   It seems that criminals don't like the idea that we can shoot back!!     (Hmph ... Go figure.)

          I offer that as an intriguing example of how "bad guys" back-off when they're not certain who is an easy target.    

          My own personal experience #2:

          I've interviewed many felons guilty of aggravated crimes (armed robbery, assault with a deadly weapon,  etc.),  and they all say the same thing:  .... Criminals try to choose "easy targets" ... (like the lady with the baby buggy this winter) .....  and that IF there's a chance that the "easy target" might NOT be so easy,  criminals TEND TO REFRAIN.

          I agree with Joshua,  no one fancies the idea of "poorly trained citizens shooting wildly at perps".   But as evidenced from my particular experience,   shooting isn't necessary to deter crime.   Again, I'm merely presenting my own personal experiences,  but just to play "devil's advocate" ...  doesn't it seem to suggest that citizen armament (ownership/ carrying, without shooting) could be a passive way to deter crime?

          My own personal experience #3:

          Based on my own conversations with Ward 1 residents,  it's very interesting to note that more of Ward 1 is "pro-armament", than you'd think.  Off-hand, I can name between 65 to 70 people within my ANC alone, who are pro-armament.  Some of them actually have firearms within their homes, with licenses from other states.  (Note:  I do not condone violating D.C. law).  To date, they have not  "shot wildly at suspected perps" ... and they don't plan to  (I've actually asked).    They assure that along with their training and licensing,  they also learned responsible-handling, and a reliance on actual police officers (who have workers-comp insurance and body armor).

          Anyway,  I just thought I'd share some interesting observations of mine,  and conversations I've had over the past year. 

          Thanks again for the opportunity to briefly share my personal experiences .... I appreciate neighbors like you who encourage community-discourse, and also respect the varying opinions that appear.

          Happy February, and have a good week!

          Jenna



          To unsubscribe, email WardOneDC-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com






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        • richardhertz88
          I would also like to thank Jenna and share a story of my own. One night, I heard a rattle at my kitchen window. As I crept downstairs with my loaded colt 45
          Message 4 of 7 , Feb 2, 2004
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            I would also like to thank Jenna and share a story of my own. One
            night, I heard a rattle at my kitchen window. As I crept downstairs
            with my loaded colt 45 APC, I noticed a young fellow climbing
            halfway into my house through the window. At that point, I cocked
            the hammer and put the barrel right up his nose, asking him calmly
            what he was doing in my house?

            I think he wet his pants as he tried to stutter a response and
            slipped back to the ground outside. That was 2 years ago and I've
            not had another uninvited visitor since - but I'm ever vigilant
            living in this concrete jungle. Sometimes I feel like my only
            friends are my colt and my good neighbors on this web site.
            --- In WardOneDC@yahoogroups.com, "Dominic Sale" <dominicsale@y...>
            wrote:
            > Jenna, thanks for sharing your stories.In researching my robbery
            clearance rate resolution to present at our ANC meeting tomorrow
            night, I came across these tables from the FBI's Uniform Crime
            Reports. I'm interested to know of the most recent justifiable
            homicide in DC. This may be one area in which we don't lead the
            nation. Do we even have a justifiable homicide provision in DC Code?
            > Justifiable Homicide
            > by Weapon, Law Enforcement,1 1998-2002
            > Year Total Total
            > firearms Handguns Rifles Shotguns Firearms,
            > type not
            > stated Knives or
            > cutting
            > instruments Other
            > dangerous
            > weapons Personal
            > weapons
            >
            > 1998 369 367 322 15 18 12 0 0 2
            > 1999 308 305 274 11 15 5 0 1 2
            > 2000 309 308 274 14 13 7 0 1 0
            > 2001 378 375 318 25 11 21 0 3 0
            > 2002 339 335 294 18 7 16 1 3 0
            >
            >
            > 1 The killing of a felon by a law enforcement officer in the line
            of duty.
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Back to Top
            >
            > Table 2.17
            > Justifiable Homicide
            > by Weapon, Private Citizen,1 1998-2002
            > Year Total Total
            > firearms Handguns Rifles Shotguns Firearms,
            > type not
            > stated Knives or
            > cutting
            > instruments Other
            > dangerous
            > weapons Personal
            > weapons
            >
            > 1998 196 170 150 6 14 0 17 5 4
            > 1999 192 158 137 5 10 6 18 9 7
            > 2000 164 138 123 4 7 4 15 8 3
            > 2001 222 183 143 10 13 17 26 6 7
            > 2002 225 184 154 11 13 6 26 9 6
            >
            >
            > 1 The killing of a felon, during the commission of a felony, by a
            private citizen.
            >
            >
            >
            > ----- Original Message -----
            > From: ANC J. Moheyer (1-a-06)
            > To: WardOneDC@yahoogroups.com
            > Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 10:54 AM
            > Subject: [WardOneDC] Re: Citizen Disarmament
            >
            >
            > Happy Sunday, Dominic, Joshua, and other neighbors,
            >
            > I am so sorry to hear about Alicia. My own household had a
            personal "brush" with attempted armed robbery, so I thought I'd
            retell it ... and present some interesting points (based upon my own
            personal experiences) for contemplation...
            >
            > My own personal experience #1:
            >
            > My first year in Ward 1 was awful, because we used to get break-
            in attempts at my house EVERY month. Then last summer, my
            housemate (who is an armed Federal Agent) was confronted on our
            street by an armed assailant who demanded money ... as my housemate
            obediently reached for his wallet, his gunholster was revealed, the
            thug freaked-out and yelped "Oh $#%@ !! I didn't know man .... I
            ain't think you was carrying, " and immediately scampered away.
            It's interesting because, ever since that day, the "shady-elements"
            of the neighborhood cross the street whenever we/he/I walk by.
            Word-is-out that we are armed, and we've not had ONE attempted
            break-in since! It seems that criminals don't like the idea that
            we can shoot back!! (Hmph ... Go figure.)
            >
            > I offer that as an intriguing example of how "bad guys" back-off
            when they're not certain who is an easy target.
            >
            > My own personal experience #2:
            >
            > I've interviewed many felons guilty of aggravated crimes (armed
            robbery, assault with a deadly weapon, etc.), and they all say the
            same thing: .... Criminals try to choose "easy targets" ... (like
            the lady with the baby buggy this winter) ..... and that IF there's
            a chance that the "easy target" might NOT be so easy, criminals
            TEND TO REFRAIN.
            >
            > I agree with Joshua, no one fancies the idea of "poorly trained
            citizens shooting wildly at perps". But as evidenced from my
            particular experience, shooting isn't necessary to deter crime.
            Again, I'm merely presenting my own personal experiences, but just
            to play "devil's advocate" ... doesn't it seem to suggest that
            citizen armament (ownership/ carrying, without shooting) could be a
            passive way to deter crime?
            >
            > My own personal experience #3:
            >
            > Based on my own conversations with Ward 1 residents, it's very
            interesting to note that more of Ward 1 is "pro-armament", than
            you'd think. Off-hand, I can name between 65 to 70 people within my
            ANC alone, who are pro-armament. Some of them actually have
            firearms within their homes, with licenses from other states.
            (Note: I do not condone violating D.C. law). To date, they have
            not "shot wildly at suspected perps" ... and they don't plan to
            (I've actually asked). They assure that along with their training
            and licensing, they also learned responsible-handling, and a
            reliance on actual police officers (who have workers-comp insurance
            and body armor).
            >
            > Anyway, I just thought I'd share some interesting observations
            of mine, and conversations I've had over the past year.
            >
            > Thanks again for the opportunity to briefly share my personal
            experiences .... I appreciate neighbors like you who encourage
            community-discourse, and also respect the varying opinions that
            appear.
            >
            > Happy February, and have a good week!
            >
            > Jenna
            >
            >
            >
            > To unsubscribe, email WardOneDC-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
            > ADVERTISEMENT
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > -------------------------------------------------------------------
            -----------
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
            > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WardOneDC/
            >
            > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
            > WardOneDC-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
            >
            > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms
            of Service.
          • richardhertz88
            Good point partner. Next time you re attacked or caught in drive-by cross fire on the 16th street, throw a glass of nasty, lead tainted, DC H20 in thier face.
            Message 5 of 7 , Feb 2, 2004
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              Good point partner. Next time you're attacked or caught in drive-by
              cross fire on the 16th street, throw a glass of nasty, lead tainted,
              DC H20 in thier face. Those punks will thank you for the car wash
              while I prefer to leave a more lasting impression by putting a cap
              in their ass.
              --- In WardOneDC@yahoogroups.com, dcrealtornw@a... wrote:
              > I think we should trust the government to protect us from crime
              and from our
              > own misuse of guns.
              > Citizens are not competent to handle lead.
              > We must let the government do it. They have much more experience
              with it.
              > They provide us all the lead we need in our water.
            • chadwickr
              Does anyone know where to get a Stun Gun or other weapon for protection.? Since reading that only 29% of DC Officers even live in the city I understand why I
              Message 6 of 7 , Feb 13, 2004
              • 0 Attachment
                Does anyone know where to get a Stun Gun or other weapon for
                protection.?

                Since reading that only 29% of DC Officers even live in the city I
                understand why I only see them driving around talking on cell phones
                (isn't that illegal?) and not really paying attention to all manner
                of things going on in our neighborhoods.

                Recent newspaper article and some citizens won an important PR battle
                recently when they took hold of 'WardOneDC''s cry for a resolution to
                our violent crime situation, and turned it into a "zero tolerance"
                issue. Made Dominic and everyone else look like Orange Hat Patrolers
                that wanted those that Litter punished.

                So, there has been one more murder on my street and two more people I
                know have been robbed at gunpoint.

                And they want to get another 100,000 citizens to move into the
                District. why? so they can be target practice for drug pushers?

                After the Control Board is reinstated and Congress deposes the Chief
                of Police, and then once the city requires each Police Officer to be
                a citizen of the city, then maybe my neighbors will quit getting
                attacked.




                --- In WardOneDC@yahoogroups.com, "Dominic Sale" <dominicsale@y...>
                wrote:
                > Jenna, thanks for sharing your stories.In researching my robbery
                clearance rate resolution to present at our ANC meeting tomorrow
                night, I came across these tables from the FBI's Uniform Crime
                Reports. I'm interested to know of the most recent justifiable
                homicide in DC. This may be one area in which we don't lead the
                nation. Do we even have a justifiable homicide provision in DC Code?
                > Justifiable Homicide
                > by Weapon, Law Enforcement,1 1998-2002
                > Year Total Total
                > firearms Handguns Rifles Shotguns Firearms,
                > type not
                > stated Knives or
                > cutting
                > instruments Other
                > dangerous
                > weapons Personal
                > weapons
                >
                > 1998 369 367 322 15 18 12 0 0 2
                > 1999 308 305 274 11 15 5 0 1 2
                > 2000 309 308 274 14 13 7 0 1 0
                > 2001 378 375 318 25 11 21 0 3 0
                > 2002 339 335 294 18 7 16 1 3 0
                >
                >
                > 1 The killing of a felon by a law enforcement officer in the line
                of duty.
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Back to Top
                >
                > Table 2.17
                > Justifiable Homicide
                > by Weapon, Private Citizen,1 1998-2002
                > Year Total Total
                > firearms Handguns Rifles Shotguns Firearms,
                > type not
                > stated Knives or
                > cutting
                > instruments Other
                > dangerous
                > weapons Personal
                > weapons
                >
                > 1998 196 170 150 6 14 0 17 5 4
                > 1999 192 158 137 5 10 6 18 9 7
                > 2000 164 138 123 4 7 4 15 8 3
                > 2001 222 183 143 10 13 17 26 6 7
                > 2002 225 184 154 11 13 6 26 9 6
                >
                >
                > 1 The killing of a felon, during the commission of a felony, by a
                private citizen.
                >
                >
                >
                > ----- Original Message -----
                > From: ANC J. Moheyer (1-a-06)
                > To: WardOneDC@yahoogroups.com
                > Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 10:54 AM
                > Subject: [WardOneDC] Re: Citizen Disarmament
                >
                >
                > Happy Sunday, Dominic, Joshua, and other neighbors,
                >
                > I am so sorry to hear about Alicia. My own household had a
                personal "brush" with attempted armed robbery, so I thought I'd
                retell it ... and present some interesting points (based upon my own
                personal experiences) for contemplation...
                >
                > My own personal experience #1:
                >
                > My first year in Ward 1 was awful, because we used to get break-
                in attempts at my house EVERY month. Then last summer, my
                housemate (who is an armed Federal Agent) was confronted on our
                street by an armed assailant who demanded money ... as my housemate
                obediently reached for his wallet, his gunholster was revealed, the
                thug freaked-out and yelped "Oh $#%@ !! I didn't know man .... I
                ain't think you was carrying, " and immediately scampered away.
                It's interesting because, ever since that day, the "shady-elements"
                of the neighborhood cross the street whenever we/he/I walk by. Word-
                is-out that we are armed, and we've not had ONE attempted break-in
                since! It seems that criminals don't like the idea that we can
                shoot back!! (Hmph ... Go figure.)
                >
                > I offer that as an intriguing example of how "bad guys" back-off
                when they're not certain who is an easy target.
                >
                > My own personal experience #2:
                >
                > I've interviewed many felons guilty of aggravated crimes (armed
                robbery, assault with a deadly weapon, etc.), and they all say the
                same thing: .... Criminals try to choose "easy targets" ... (like
                the lady with the baby buggy this winter) ..... and that IF there's
                a chance that the "easy target" might NOT be so easy, criminals TEND
                TO REFRAIN.
                >
                > I agree with Joshua, no one fancies the idea of "poorly trained
                citizens shooting wildly at perps". But as evidenced from my
                particular experience, shooting isn't necessary to deter crime.
                Again, I'm merely presenting my own personal experiences, but just
                to play "devil's advocate" ... doesn't it seem to suggest that
                citizen armament (ownership/ carrying, without shooting) could be a
                passive way to deter crime?
                >
                > My own personal experience #3:
                >
                > Based on my own conversations with Ward 1 residents, it's very
                interesting to note that more of Ward 1 is "pro-armament", than you'd
                think. Off-hand, I can name between 65 to 70 people within my ANC
                alone, who are pro-armament. Some of them actually have firearms
                within their homes, with licenses from other states. (Note: I do
                not condone violating D.C. law). To date, they have not "shot
                wildly at suspected perps" ... and they don't plan to (I've actually
                asked). They assure that along with their training and licensing,
                they also learned responsible-handling, and a reliance on actual
                police officers (who have workers-comp insurance and body armor).
                >
                > Anyway, I just thought I'd share some interesting observations
                of mine, and conversations I've had over the past year.
                >
                > Thanks again for the opportunity to briefly share my personal
                experiences .... I appreciate neighbors like you who encourage
                community-discourse, and also respect the varying opinions that
                appear.
                >
                > Happy February, and have a good week!
                >
                > Jenna
                >
                >
                >
                > To unsubscribe, email WardOneDC-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
                > ADVERTISEMENT
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > --------------------------------------------------------------------
                ----------
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                > a.. To visit your group on the web, go to:
                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WardOneDC/
                >
                > b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                > WardOneDC-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
                >
                > c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of
                Service.
              • James Treworgy
                Stun guns and tasers are illegal in DC, but I expect your question was rhetorical. I am not sure what your point is about the # of cops who live in DC versus
                Message 7 of 7 , Feb 14, 2004
                • 0 Attachment
                  Stun guns and tasers are illegal in DC, but I expect your question was
                  rhetorical. I am not sure what your point is about the # of cops who
                  live in DC versus work here.. do you find that your performance at
                  work has anything to do with its relative proximity to your home? I
                  actually think its just fine that we hire cops from wherever the come
                  from. To have a policy against this would dramtically limit the number
                  of potential job applicants and certainly result in a lower quality
                  police force.
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