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Re: Officers from the ranks....

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  • Col Sjt Jones
    How true Terry! In my time as line sjt and CO of IMUC I also used full volume. Let s face it we are not silent drill squads. Commanders should be confident
    Message 1 of 16 , Dec 31, 2000
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      How true Terry! In my time as line sjt and CO of IMUC I also used
      full volume. Let's face it we are not silent drill squads.
      Commanders should be confident in their commands and not keep them a
      semi-secret.

      In addition to being heard by your people, it is an auditory
      experience for the spectators.

      As a person undergoing CF officer training many years ago, we were
      taught that we were in competition to be heard against the adjacent
      unit commanders and the bands.

      We were taught voice of command/projection under strenuous training
      circumstances, with punishment if you couldn't be heard.

      Perhaps the people who will be running the officer/NCO courses could
      include training in enunciating from the diaphragm rather than the
      throat, so that a commander's voice is not lost to a hoarse gargle
      half way through a battle.

      Doug



      --- In WarOf1812@egroups.com, "Terry Lubka" <tlubka@p...> wrote:
      > Big sigh.....
      And finally officers from the ranks know how to yell commands. How
      many
      > times have I experienced being in the ranks and not heard an
      officier's
      > commands!!! Case in point. I came up the ranks in the IMUC. as a
      private we
      > on the left of the line sometimes couldn't hear the commands. When I
      > eventually made Sgt. I remembered this and bellowed out my orders.
      No one
      > complained about not hearing me. The result was a line of men that
      moved on
      > time and a snappier drill.
      >
    • Kevin Windsor
      Terry I agree with many of your points. I think safety and knowing what it is like to carry a musket and how damned heavy those things get is an important
      Message 2 of 16 , Jan 1, 2001
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        Terry I agree with many of your points. I think safety and knowing what it is like to carry a musket and how damned heavy those things get is an important thing for
        officers to remember. However, I don't think that an officer should be excluded from the field because he wants to partray himself (herself. DUCK INCOMMING!!)as a
        dandy. I think that if an officer knows the drill than strut all you want! It would be good to see the officers as upperclasses instead of the serjeant with a really
        expensive uniform that we often see.

        Terry Lubka wrote:

        > For those "officers" who prance on the field with know rank experience
        > please stay off the field. Better yet if you want to be a peacock then strut
        > your stuff behind the lines, that's the audience lines....
        >
        > Now let the fireworks begin!
        >
        > Terry. (taking cover, naw to hell with it. Standing front and center)
      • HQ93rd@aol.com
        In a message dated 12/31/00 5:01:42 PM, chimera1@sympatico.ca writes:
        Message 3 of 16 , Jan 1, 2001
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          In a message dated 12/31/00 5:01:42 PM, chimera1@... writes:

          << We were taught voice of command/projection under strenuous training
          circumstances, with punishment if you couldn't be heard.

          Perhaps the people who will be running the officer/NCO courses could
          include training in enunciating from the diaphragm rather than the
          throat, so that a commander's voice is not lost to a hoarse gargle
          half way through a battle. >>

          Amen to that!

          B
          93rd SHRoFLHU
          THE Thin Red Line
          www.93rdhighlanders.com
        • Col Sjt Jones
          An individual unit can decide itself if it wants to have an officer from within its ranks or an outsider. If the officer wishes to portray himself as a dandy
          Message 4 of 16 , Jan 1, 2001
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            An individual unit can decide itself if it wants to have an officer
            from within its ranks or an outsider. If the officer wishes to
            portray himself as a dandy - fine.

            But an individual unaffiliated "officer" who shows up at an event
            even with a proper uniform and officer-like attitude has no role. In
            our area (and I suppose we have the largest 1812 events in North
            America) we have seen them. They kind of wander aimlessly around the
            battlefield behind the lines. Since they are unaffiliated they may
            also be rather lonely in camp. We have respected, efficient and
            knowledgeable officers as field and general commanders, all who have
            come up through their units. There is no need for more officers.

            Within the 1812 movement, there seems to be a trend to diverse micro
            units. The IMUC attended an "event" at Gananoque a few years ago
            (and we enjoyed ourselves). There was a three person unit doing the
            King's 8th. Their uniforms were OK. The colour sjt was the wife -
            she came up to my shoulder and carried a dinky union jack. Her
            husband was the officer. Their uncle was the private. They were
            very nice people, but there are no larger formed units in their area
            which they could have joined, or which could have provided advice.

            Would you want that officer, even after a 2 day course, commanding
            you in a field grade at an event?

            A training course may upgrade the portrayal skills of existing or
            potential officers within units, but I submit it will fail in
            producing acceptable field grade officers.

            Doug


            --- In WarOf1812@egroups.com, Kevin Windsor <kevin.windsor@s...>
            wrote:
            However, I don't think that an officer should be excluded from the
            field because he wants to partray himself ----- as a
            > dandy. I think that if an officer knows the drill than strut all
            you want! It would be good to see the officers as upperclasses
            instead of the serjeant with a really
            > expensive uniform that we often see.
            >
            > Terry Lubka wrote:
            >
            > > For those "officers" who prance on the field with know rank
            experience
            > > please stay off the field. Better yet if you want to be a peacock
            then strut
            > > your stuff behind the lines, that's the audience lines....
            > >
            > > Now let the fireworks begin!
            > >
            > > Terry. (taking cover, naw to hell with it. Standing front and
            center)
          • BritcomHMP@aol.com
            In a message dated 1/1/2001 4:40:16 PM Central Standard Time, HQ93rd@aol.com writes:
            Message 5 of 16 , Jan 1, 2001
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              In a message dated 1/1/2001 4:40:16 PM Central Standard Time, HQ93rd@...
              writes:

              << Perhaps the people who will be running the officer/NCO courses could
              include training in enunciating from the diaphragm rather than the
              throat, so that a commander's voice is not lost to a hoarse gargle
              half way through a battle. >>

              Amen to that!
              >>

              Yes, its called singing! A (long) while ago there was a programe about the
              preparations for Trooping the Colour for the Queens Birthday Parade. It was
              pointed out that the Brigade Major (the chap who sits on his horse shouting
              out all the orders) go 6 months of singing lessons to teach him how to
              project from the diaphragm and not wreck his throat in a few minuets.
              I can also just remember when all the regiments of Foot Guards had slightly
              different notes to the orders so that, if more than one unit was on parade at
              the same time, it was obvious which officer was giving the orders.

              Cheers

              Tim
            • Kevin Windsor
              So Tim if you set your orders to Julie Andrews from the sound of music we will know it s you okay!! ;-) Leave the guitar at home though wouldn t want to be
              Message 6 of 16 , Jan 1, 2001
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                So Tim if you set your orders to Julie Andrews from the sound of music we will know it's you okay!!
                ;-)
                Leave the guitar at home though wouldn't want to be accused of being a farb! ;-)

                BritcomHMP@... wrote:

                >
                > I can also just remember when all the regiments of Foot Guards had slightly
                > different notes to the orders so that, if more than one unit was on parade at
                > the same time, it was obvious which officer was giving the orders.
                >
                > Cheers
                >
                > Tim
                >
              • Col Sjt Jones
                ... HQ93rd@a... ... could ... about the ... Parade. It was ... shouting ... to ... minuets. ... slightly ... parade at ... In my early days as commanding sjt
                Message 7 of 16 , Jan 1, 2001
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                  --- In WarOf1812@egroups.com, BritcomHMP@a... wrote:
                  > In a message dated 1/1/2001 4:40:16 PM Central Standard Time,
                  HQ93rd@a...
                  > writes:
                  >
                  > << Perhaps the people who will be running the officer/NCO courses
                  could
                  > include training in enunciating from the diaphragm rather than the
                  > throat, so that a commander's voice is not lost to a hoarse gargle
                  > half way through a battle. >>
                  >
                  > Amen to that!
                  > >>
                  >
                  > Yes, its called singing! A (long) while ago there was a programe
                  about the
                  > preparations for Trooping the Colour for the Queens Birthday
                  Parade. It was
                  > pointed out that the Brigade Major (the chap who sits on his horse
                  shouting
                  > out all the orders) go 6 months of singing lessons to teach him how
                  to
                  > project from the diaphragm and not wreck his throat in a few
                  minuets.
                  > I can also just remember when all the regiments of Foot Guards had
                  slightly
                  > different notes to the orders so that, if more than one unit was on
                  parade at
                  > the same time, it was obvious which officer was giving the orders.
                  >
                  > Cheers
                  >
                  > Tim

                  In my early days as commanding sjt of the Imuc I was apparently known
                  as the "singing serjeant". I suppose both for my elevated voice of
                  command and the fact that my commands were usually attenuated in
                  modern fashion - and that my singing voice is high. Doug
                • JGIL1812@aol.com
                  In a message dated 12/31/00 11:41:05 AM Pacific Standard Time, tlubka@pathcom.com writes:
                  Message 8 of 16 , Jan 1, 2001
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                    In a message dated 12/31/00 11:41:05 AM Pacific Standard Time,
                    tlubka@... writes:

                    << Now let the fireworks begin!

                    Terry. (taking cover, naw to hell with it. Standing front and center)
                    >>

                    Terry,

                    Suicide would've been cheaper and a whole lot easier!

                    JG/RE
                  • HQ93rd@aol.com
                    In a message dated 1/1/01 4:56:22 PM, chimera1@sympatico.ca writes:
                    Message 9 of 16 , Jan 2, 2001
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                      In a message dated 1/1/01 4:56:22 PM, chimera1@... writes:

                      << An individual unit can decide itself if it wants to have an officer
                      from within its ranks or an outsider. If the officer wishes to
                      portray himself as a dandy - fine. >>

                      As in "fine and dandy"....?

                      B
                      93rd SHRoFLHU
                      THE Thin Red Line
                      www.93rdhighlanders.com
                    • BritcomHMP@aol.com
                      In a message dated 1/1/2001 10:53:04 PM Central Standard Time, kevin.windsor@sympatico.ca writes:
                      Message 10 of 16 , Jan 2, 2001
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                        In a message dated 1/1/2001 10:53:04 PM Central Standard Time,
                        kevin.windsor@... writes:

                        << So Tim if you set your orders to Julie Andrews from the sound of music we
                        will know it's you okay!!
                        ;-)
                        Leave the guitar at home though wouldn't want to be accused of being a farb!
                        ;-)
                        >>

                        He storms a trench, gives his leg a wrench,
                        His uniform has a rent,
                        He ambles when he should quick march,
                        He cannot pitch a tent,
                        And when it comes to drinking then his cash has all been spent.
                        I even heard him singing after lights out!

                        High on a hill is a lonely Staff Officer
                        Lay hodalady yodelady ho!

                        Sorry, pardon! Did someone say something? :-)
                      • Col Sjt Jones
                        Further to the hopefully humorous remarks I made at the bottom of this, I would like to re-emphasize that the voice of command training to which I referred was
                        Message 11 of 16 , Jan 2, 2001
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                          Further to the hopefully humorous remarks I made at the bottom of
                          this, I would like to re-emphasize that the voice of command training
                          to which I referred was for junior officers. It wasn't intended to
                          be elegant or to resemble singing - simply the ability to be heard
                          and not to lose one's voice. Doug



                          --- In WarOf1812@egroups.com, "Col Sjt Jones" <chimera1@s...> wrote:
                          > --- In WarOf1812@egroups.com, BritcomHMP@a... wrote:
                          > > In a message dated 1/1/2001 4:40:16 PM Central Standard Time,
                          > HQ93rd@a...
                          > > writes:
                          > >
                          > > << Perhaps the people who will be running the officer/NCO courses
                          > could
                          > > include training in enunciating from the diaphragm rather than
                          the
                          > > throat, so that a commander's voice is not lost to a hoarse
                          gargle
                          > > half way through a battle. >>
                          > >
                          > > Amen to that!
                          > > >>
                          > >
                          > > Yes, its called singing! A (long) while ago there was a programe
                          > about the
                          > > preparations for Trooping the Colour for the Queens Birthday
                          > Parade. It was
                          > > pointed out that the Brigade Major (the chap who sits on his
                          horse
                          > shouting
                          > > out all the orders) go 6 months of singing lessons to teach him
                          how
                          > to
                          > > project from the diaphragm and not wreck his throat in a few
                          > minuets.
                          > > I can also just remember when all the regiments of Foot Guards
                          had
                          > slightly
                          > > different notes to the orders so that, if more than one unit was
                          on
                          > parade at
                          > > the same time, it was obvious which officer was giving the orders.
                          > >
                          > > Cheers
                          > >
                          > > Tim
                          >
                          > In my early days as commanding sjt of the Imuc I was apparently
                          known
                          > as the "singing serjeant". I suppose both for my elevated voice of
                          > command and the fact that my commands were usually attenuated in
                          > modern fashion - and that my singing voice is high. Doug
                        • HQ93rd@aol.com
                          In a message dated 1/2/01 4:40:30 PM, chimera1@sympatico.ca writes:
                          Message 12 of 16 , Jan 2, 2001
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                            In a message dated 1/2/01 4:40:30 PM, chimera1@... writes:

                            << Further to the hopefully humorous remarks I made at the bottom of
                            this, I would like to re-emphasize that the voice of command training
                            to which I referred was for junior officers. It wasn't intended to
                            be elegant or to resemble singing - simply the ability to be heard
                            and not to lose one's voice. >>

                            Yes, but the thing is, even after the jokes, Tim is quite correct. It is
                            indeed "singing" as it is the same basic techniques. (Trust me...)

                            B
                            93rd SHRoFLHU
                            THE Thin Red Line
                            www.93rdhighlanders.com
                          • BritcomHMP@aol.com
                            In a message dated 1/3/2001 9:07:20 AM Central Standard Time, sgtwarnr@idirect.ca writes:
                            Message 13 of 16 , Jan 3, 2001
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                              In a message dated 1/3/2001 9:07:20 AM Central Standard Time,
                              sgtwarnr@... writes:

                              << What's that I hear? is that you Tim?

                              ....I am the very model of a modern Major General...

                              Sooner or later we all do a little G&S!
                              >>

                              Well Craig, having been a member of the Harrogate Gilbert and Sullivan
                              Society, and having done lots of chorus stuff and various principal parts in
                              concert (Lord Tolloler's 'When Britain Really Ruled the Waves' was a
                              specialty at one time) your ON!

                              Cheers

                              Tim
                            • Craig Williams
                              What s that I hear? is that you Tim? ....I am the very model of a modern Major General... Sooner or later we all do a little G&S! Tuppence Craig
                              Message 14 of 16 , Jan 3, 2001
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                                What's that I hear? is that you Tim?

                                ....I am the very model of a modern Major General...

                                Sooner or later we all do a little G&S!

                                Tuppence
                                Craig
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