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Re: [WarOf1812] Chalmette/Sir Harry/Other Ranks/Bloody Officers#@%!!

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  • james barnwell
    ... members,regardless of rank ,How would the list suggest that a better presentation to the general public be made? Eliminate a Officer,or just go with an
    Message 1 of 14 , Dec 2, 2000
      > I regards to units that only have a few
      members,regardless of "rank",How would the list
      suggest that a better presentation to the general
      public be made?
      Eliminate a Officer,or just go with an NCO? Yes
      it would be nice to get more people involved in our
      hobby,at least to fill ranks.
      Drilling takes a lot of practice.Perhaps
      knowledge of the drills,could be a requirement for
      advancement? Firearm safety,as well.
      Someone said something about Officers having two
      uniforms.What about having British/U.S. coatees and
      Shako plates, and or Militia rifle frocks,so
      perhaps,Our opposing lines could be better filled in
      at larger events?
      perhaps the extra uniforms could be loaned to
      anyone who wanted to "try" their hand at an
      event.Being drilled like a new recruit?
      >
      Regards
      James Barnwell

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    • easeufe@aol.com
      In a message dated 12/2/00 9:19:29 AM Eastern Standard Time, ... forgive ... Tim et al, My remarks to Roger s email were simply to say that the Royal Marines
      Message 2 of 14 , Dec 3, 2000
        In a message dated 12/2/00 9:19:29 AM Eastern Standard Time,
        BritcomHMP@... writes:
        > Because Nap/1812 need lots more of them, the only real rank worth
        > having in this hobby is private- or Rifleman.
        > ..........or Marine!

        > ONLY officers originated and gave orders on the field during our period.
        > Whiteness the 93rd at New Orleans standing 'like a brick wall' because the
        > officer in command had been shot, until an officer of a senior enough rank
        > came to order them to move. I am as opposed to people just dressing up as
        > officers as anyone (perhaps more than most) but the idea that officers are
        > not nesasary in what is supposed to be an historical re-creation is,
        forgive
        > me, laughable. If anyone sincerely believes that, they know very little
        > about the period.
        >
        Tim et al,

        My remarks to Roger's email were simply to say that the Royal Marines were
        also here during the war. Nothing more.

        But to get on the bandwagon, one of the banes of re-enacting is that there
        will
        always be units that come into the hobby with the officer, NCO then private
        mentality. These groups come into being usually structured from the top down
        versus bottom up and do nothing for the hobby but create awkward moments and
        festering unfulfilled egos. In Maryland, we have a Lt-Col of Royal Horse
        Artillery
        (No Gun and No Horse) and a Captain of the 95th, neither of which I or my men
        will follow or take orders from. (In fact, when the local 95th attends an
        event, the officer takes commands from me.)

        Competent and learned officers are indeed important and necessary to the
        hobby and to the general overall impression that we give to the public. We
        recognize this and its one of the underlying reasons that we do not go to the
        Ft McHenry event.
        The British line should not be commanded by a Corporal or a Boatswain's Mate
        as
        it was two years ago; it is an incorrect impression and translates a falsity
        to the
        public. Fortunately, this does not affect most other events in the area
        which are more fluid and akin to raids than stand-up battles and having NCOs
        in charge
        works well.

        On our yearly trip to Canada, we usually find ourselves brigaded with other
        units under an officer and have never had a problem (Larry, Craig?). In
        fact,
        we appreciate this and always use it as a learning experience.

        Ed Seufert, LCpl
        1812 Royal Marines
      • mike dollinger
        ... _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download :
        Message 3 of 14 , Dec 4, 2000
          >From: james barnwell <barnlll@...>
          >Reply-To: WarOf1812@egroups.com
          >To: WarOf1812@egroups.com
          >Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Chalmette/Sir Harry/Other Ranks/Bloody
          >Officers#@%!!
          >Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 19:02:14 -0800 (PST)
          >
          >
          > > I regards to units that only have a few
          >members,regardless of "rank",How would the list
          >suggest that a better presentation to the general
          >public be made?
          > Eliminate a Officer,or just go with an NCO? Yes
          >it would be nice to get more people involved in our
          >hobby,at least to fill ranks.
          > Drilling takes a lot of practice.Perhaps
          >knowledge of the drills,could be a requirement for
          >advancement? Firearm safety,as well.
          > Someone said something about Officers having two
          >uniforms.What about having British/U.S. coatees and
          >Shako plates, and or Militia rifle frocks,so
          >perhaps,Our opposing lines could be better filled in
          >at larger events?
          > perhaps the extra uniforms could be loaned to
          >anyone who wanted to "try" their hand at an
          >event.Being drilled like a new recruit?
          > >
          > Regards
          > James Barnwell
          >THE NWTA REV WAR GROUP HAS A SYSTEM FOR PEAPLE WHO ARE JUST GETTING STARTED
          >IN THE HOBBY. THERE IS A SUPPLY OF TENTS AND CLOTHINING THAT IS LENT OUT
          >WITHOUT CHARGE SO PEAPLE CAN CAMP WITH DIFFERENT UNITS TO LEARN ABOUT THOSE
          >UNITS AND CHOOSE THE UNIT THAT FITS THERE INTEREST AND NEEDS.THIS WAY
          >WITHOUT SPENDING A BUNCH THEY CAN TEST THE WATERS FIND A UNIT LEARN A LOT
          >AND NOT BECOME A SAFETY HAZARD OR NUISENCE.
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          >Do You Yahoo!?
          >Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.
          >http://shopping.yahoo.com/

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        • BritcomHMP@aol.com
          In a message dated 12/3/2000 11:49:57 PM Central Standard Time, easeufe@aol.com writes:
          Message 4 of 14 , Dec 4, 2000
            In a message dated 12/3/2000 11:49:57 PM Central Standard Time,
            easeufe@... writes:

            << In Maryland, we have a Lt-Col of Royal Horse
            Artillery
            (No Gun and No Horse) and a Captain of the 95th, neither of which I or my
            men
            will follow or take orders from. (In fact, when the local 95th attends an
            event, the officer takes commands from me.) >>

            This may be the origin of some confusion Ed. I personaly am fully aware of
            these individuals but I have never considered them anything but
            clotheshorses. Certainly not re-enactment officers. They hold no position in
            any group that I am aware of so I don't see that they count at all. They
            could be dressed as Capt. Kirk & Mr. Spock for all I care they are never
            going to give any order on a field that I am charge of.

            Cheers

            Tim
          • Kevin Windsor
            This is an interesting statement Tim and I am not going to challenge your validity to lead because I would have to be daft!! However what does a person do if
            Message 5 of 14 , Dec 5, 2000
              This is an interesting statement Tim and I am not going to challenge
              your validity to lead because I would have to be daft!! However what
              does a person do if he wishes
              to portray an officer? There is such an "in group" of those the
              re-enactment community feels are officers and everyone else is just
              playing. Is there any way a new
              officer can get "respect"? I know it would happen differently with the
              NABB, but not everyone subscribes to their tenants.

              Fire away ladies and gents

              BritcomHMP@... wrote:

              > Certainly not re-enactment officers. They hold no position in
              > any group that I am aware of so I don't see that they count at all. They
              > could be dressed as Capt. Kirk & Mr. Spock for all I care they are never
              > going to give any order on a field that I am charge of.
            • BritcomHMP@aol.com
              In a message dated 12/5/2000 9:15:17 PM Central Standard Time, kevin.windsor@sympatico.ca writes:
              Message 6 of 14 , Dec 6, 2000
                In a message dated 12/5/2000 9:15:17 PM Central Standard Time,
                kevin.windsor@... writes:

                << This is an interesting statement Tim (about people who just put on
                uniforms not realy being re-enactment officers) and I am not going to
                challenge
                your validity to lead because I would have to be daft!! However what
                does a person do if he wishes
                to portray an officer?>>

                The usual method is indeed by joining a re-created regiment and working your
                way through it. However in the UK we found that with a large unified body, as
                the NA became 18 or so years ago, it was necessary to have people who devoted
                their time to staff work both on an off the field. The big difference over
                there is that re-enactment is Society run NOT site run. A site engages a
                group to put on a display for them but has NO say in who commands, it is up
                to the society to provide the best commanders. There were some people who
                only wanted to command their unit and there were others who wanted to
                exercise higher command, though the legal responsibility that came with it in
                more recent years put a few off the idea.

                Basically there agreed accreditation rules and if you are approved by the
                societies accreditation board you can exercise field command as an officer.
                (Part of the accreditation test for field and staff officer includes basic
                horsemanship)

                << There is such an "in group" of those the
                re-enactment community feels are officers and everyone else is just
                playing. Is there any way a new
                officer can get "respect"? I know it would happen differently with the
                NABB, but not everyone subscribes to their tenants.
                >>

                That's fine, the one idea is to have an event as safe and as much fun as
                possible there are certainly people who are not in the NABB who are competent
                officers and NCOs, but if I have to command on the field, I always feel a lot
                happier if I have the likes of Steve Hartwick, Peter Twist and Benton
                Jennings with me, not to mention John Gilmour.

                John is a great example of a chap who came along as an officer and has shown
                himself worthy of 'respect' on the field. He never pushes himself forward but
                is always ready to serve in any capacity on the field and carry out orders
                efficiently. In this way he has justified his position as an officer to all
                in the hobby.

                In the end of course you are right, the individual must be accepted by the
                re-enactment community in order to function as an officer, and right again if
                you are implying (as you seem to be) that without any formal set up it can be
                a bit difficult for a newcomer to tell who these people are. The only thing I
                can say is you know 'em when you see 'em.

                Cheers

                Tim
              • JGIL1812@aol.com
                In a message dated 12/5/00 7:15:20 PM Pacific Standard Time, kevin.windsor@sympatico.ca writes:
                Message 7 of 14 , Dec 6, 2000
                  In a message dated 12/5/00 7:15:20 PM Pacific Standard Time,
                  kevin.windsor@... writes:

                  << There is such an "in group" of those the
                  re-enactment community feels are officers and everyone else is just
                  playing. >>

                  Kevin,

                  I hope I am not misreading what you are saying here? There is a "in group"
                  both at the officer level and below. It is not just a question of how an
                  officer would be received by the OR's but also how a new recruit is perceived
                  by other groups. I have read may times on the list how seasoned re-enactors
                  have had an issue standing in line with "newbies." Especially, from another
                  group and the conversation always revolves around drill.

                  Bottom line ... we all know who can and who can't. I know many seasoned
                  re-enactors that chock on the thought of giving an order. To make the hobby
                  grow we need to encourage participation in whatever means we can: ordinary
                  ranker, ensign or God forbid another Colour Sergeant.
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