Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [WarOf1812] Re: Not Enough Other Ranks/Too Many Officers

Expand Messages
  • John-Paul Johnson
    ... On the other hand, some actually do have that piece of paper that starts ... Canada and Her other Realms and Territories, Queen... and just play at being
    Message 1 of 14 , Dec 2, 2000
    • 0 Attachment
      BritcomHMP@... wrote:

      >For a Brit if you
      > haven't got a piece of paper signed by the lady who lives at the end of the
      > Mall, your playing at it. And that includes me!
      > Cheers
      > Tim
      >

      On the other hand, some actually do have that piece of paper that starts
      :"Elizabeth the Second, by the Grace of God of the United Kingdom,
      Canada and Her other Realms and Territories, Queen..." and just play at
      being privates...and THAT includes me! <laugh>

      J-P Johnson
      Royal Nfld Reg't
      --------------
      J-P's Homepage: http://members.home.net/jpjohnsn/

      Battle of Georgian Bay Website:
      http://www.battleofgeorgianbay.huronia.com/

      102 Squadron Website: http://www.bconnex.net/~co7351/102sqn.html
    • james barnwell
      ... members,regardless of rank ,How would the list suggest that a better presentation to the general public be made? Eliminate a Officer,or just go with an
      Message 2 of 14 , Dec 2, 2000
      • 0 Attachment
        > I regards to units that only have a few
        members,regardless of "rank",How would the list
        suggest that a better presentation to the general
        public be made?
        Eliminate a Officer,or just go with an NCO? Yes
        it would be nice to get more people involved in our
        hobby,at least to fill ranks.
        Drilling takes a lot of practice.Perhaps
        knowledge of the drills,could be a requirement for
        advancement? Firearm safety,as well.
        Someone said something about Officers having two
        uniforms.What about having British/U.S. coatees and
        Shako plates, and or Militia rifle frocks,so
        perhaps,Our opposing lines could be better filled in
        at larger events?
        perhaps the extra uniforms could be loaned to
        anyone who wanted to "try" their hand at an
        event.Being drilled like a new recruit?
        >
        Regards
        James Barnwell

        __________________________________________________
        Do You Yahoo!?
        Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.
        http://shopping.yahoo.com/
      • easeufe@aol.com
        In a message dated 12/2/00 9:19:29 AM Eastern Standard Time, ... forgive ... Tim et al, My remarks to Roger s email were simply to say that the Royal Marines
        Message 3 of 14 , Dec 3, 2000
        • 0 Attachment
          In a message dated 12/2/00 9:19:29 AM Eastern Standard Time,
          BritcomHMP@... writes:
          > Because Nap/1812 need lots more of them, the only real rank worth
          > having in this hobby is private- or Rifleman.
          > ..........or Marine!

          > ONLY officers originated and gave orders on the field during our period.
          > Whiteness the 93rd at New Orleans standing 'like a brick wall' because the
          > officer in command had been shot, until an officer of a senior enough rank
          > came to order them to move. I am as opposed to people just dressing up as
          > officers as anyone (perhaps more than most) but the idea that officers are
          > not nesasary in what is supposed to be an historical re-creation is,
          forgive
          > me, laughable. If anyone sincerely believes that, they know very little
          > about the period.
          >
          Tim et al,

          My remarks to Roger's email were simply to say that the Royal Marines were
          also here during the war. Nothing more.

          But to get on the bandwagon, one of the banes of re-enacting is that there
          will
          always be units that come into the hobby with the officer, NCO then private
          mentality. These groups come into being usually structured from the top down
          versus bottom up and do nothing for the hobby but create awkward moments and
          festering unfulfilled egos. In Maryland, we have a Lt-Col of Royal Horse
          Artillery
          (No Gun and No Horse) and a Captain of the 95th, neither of which I or my men
          will follow or take orders from. (In fact, when the local 95th attends an
          event, the officer takes commands from me.)

          Competent and learned officers are indeed important and necessary to the
          hobby and to the general overall impression that we give to the public. We
          recognize this and its one of the underlying reasons that we do not go to the
          Ft McHenry event.
          The British line should not be commanded by a Corporal or a Boatswain's Mate
          as
          it was two years ago; it is an incorrect impression and translates a falsity
          to the
          public. Fortunately, this does not affect most other events in the area
          which are more fluid and akin to raids than stand-up battles and having NCOs
          in charge
          works well.

          On our yearly trip to Canada, we usually find ourselves brigaded with other
          units under an officer and have never had a problem (Larry, Craig?). In
          fact,
          we appreciate this and always use it as a learning experience.

          Ed Seufert, LCpl
          1812 Royal Marines
        • mike dollinger
          ... _____________________________________________________________________________________ Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download :
          Message 4 of 14 , Dec 4, 2000
          • 0 Attachment
            >From: james barnwell <barnlll@...>
            >Reply-To: WarOf1812@egroups.com
            >To: WarOf1812@egroups.com
            >Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Chalmette/Sir Harry/Other Ranks/Bloody
            >Officers#@%!!
            >Date: Sat, 2 Dec 2000 19:02:14 -0800 (PST)
            >
            >
            > > I regards to units that only have a few
            >members,regardless of "rank",How would the list
            >suggest that a better presentation to the general
            >public be made?
            > Eliminate a Officer,or just go with an NCO? Yes
            >it would be nice to get more people involved in our
            >hobby,at least to fill ranks.
            > Drilling takes a lot of practice.Perhaps
            >knowledge of the drills,could be a requirement for
            >advancement? Firearm safety,as well.
            > Someone said something about Officers having two
            >uniforms.What about having British/U.S. coatees and
            >Shako plates, and or Militia rifle frocks,so
            >perhaps,Our opposing lines could be better filled in
            >at larger events?
            > perhaps the extra uniforms could be loaned to
            >anyone who wanted to "try" their hand at an
            >event.Being drilled like a new recruit?
            > >
            > Regards
            > James Barnwell
            >THE NWTA REV WAR GROUP HAS A SYSTEM FOR PEAPLE WHO ARE JUST GETTING STARTED
            >IN THE HOBBY. THERE IS A SUPPLY OF TENTS AND CLOTHINING THAT IS LENT OUT
            >WITHOUT CHARGE SO PEAPLE CAN CAMP WITH DIFFERENT UNITS TO LEARN ABOUT THOSE
            >UNITS AND CHOOSE THE UNIT THAT FITS THERE INTEREST AND NEEDS.THIS WAY
            >WITHOUT SPENDING A BUNCH THEY CAN TEST THE WATERS FIND A UNIT LEARN A LOT
            >AND NOT BECOME A SAFETY HAZARD OR NUISENCE.
            >__________________________________________________
            >Do You Yahoo!?
            >Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.
            >http://shopping.yahoo.com/

            _____________________________________________________________________________________
            Get more from the Web. FREE MSN Explorer download : http://explorer.msn.com
          • BritcomHMP@aol.com
            In a message dated 12/3/2000 11:49:57 PM Central Standard Time, easeufe@aol.com writes:
            Message 5 of 14 , Dec 4, 2000
            • 0 Attachment
              In a message dated 12/3/2000 11:49:57 PM Central Standard Time,
              easeufe@... writes:

              << In Maryland, we have a Lt-Col of Royal Horse
              Artillery
              (No Gun and No Horse) and a Captain of the 95th, neither of which I or my
              men
              will follow or take orders from. (In fact, when the local 95th attends an
              event, the officer takes commands from me.) >>

              This may be the origin of some confusion Ed. I personaly am fully aware of
              these individuals but I have never considered them anything but
              clotheshorses. Certainly not re-enactment officers. They hold no position in
              any group that I am aware of so I don't see that they count at all. They
              could be dressed as Capt. Kirk & Mr. Spock for all I care they are never
              going to give any order on a field that I am charge of.

              Cheers

              Tim
            • Kevin Windsor
              This is an interesting statement Tim and I am not going to challenge your validity to lead because I would have to be daft!! However what does a person do if
              Message 6 of 14 , Dec 5, 2000
              • 0 Attachment
                This is an interesting statement Tim and I am not going to challenge
                your validity to lead because I would have to be daft!! However what
                does a person do if he wishes
                to portray an officer? There is such an "in group" of those the
                re-enactment community feels are officers and everyone else is just
                playing. Is there any way a new
                officer can get "respect"? I know it would happen differently with the
                NABB, but not everyone subscribes to their tenants.

                Fire away ladies and gents

                BritcomHMP@... wrote:

                > Certainly not re-enactment officers. They hold no position in
                > any group that I am aware of so I don't see that they count at all. They
                > could be dressed as Capt. Kirk & Mr. Spock for all I care they are never
                > going to give any order on a field that I am charge of.
              • BritcomHMP@aol.com
                In a message dated 12/5/2000 9:15:17 PM Central Standard Time, kevin.windsor@sympatico.ca writes:
                Message 7 of 14 , Dec 6, 2000
                • 0 Attachment
                  In a message dated 12/5/2000 9:15:17 PM Central Standard Time,
                  kevin.windsor@... writes:

                  << This is an interesting statement Tim (about people who just put on
                  uniforms not realy being re-enactment officers) and I am not going to
                  challenge
                  your validity to lead because I would have to be daft!! However what
                  does a person do if he wishes
                  to portray an officer?>>

                  The usual method is indeed by joining a re-created regiment and working your
                  way through it. However in the UK we found that with a large unified body, as
                  the NA became 18 or so years ago, it was necessary to have people who devoted
                  their time to staff work both on an off the field. The big difference over
                  there is that re-enactment is Society run NOT site run. A site engages a
                  group to put on a display for them but has NO say in who commands, it is up
                  to the society to provide the best commanders. There were some people who
                  only wanted to command their unit and there were others who wanted to
                  exercise higher command, though the legal responsibility that came with it in
                  more recent years put a few off the idea.

                  Basically there agreed accreditation rules and if you are approved by the
                  societies accreditation board you can exercise field command as an officer.
                  (Part of the accreditation test for field and staff officer includes basic
                  horsemanship)

                  << There is such an "in group" of those the
                  re-enactment community feels are officers and everyone else is just
                  playing. Is there any way a new
                  officer can get "respect"? I know it would happen differently with the
                  NABB, but not everyone subscribes to their tenants.
                  >>

                  That's fine, the one idea is to have an event as safe and as much fun as
                  possible there are certainly people who are not in the NABB who are competent
                  officers and NCOs, but if I have to command on the field, I always feel a lot
                  happier if I have the likes of Steve Hartwick, Peter Twist and Benton
                  Jennings with me, not to mention John Gilmour.

                  John is a great example of a chap who came along as an officer and has shown
                  himself worthy of 'respect' on the field. He never pushes himself forward but
                  is always ready to serve in any capacity on the field and carry out orders
                  efficiently. In this way he has justified his position as an officer to all
                  in the hobby.

                  In the end of course you are right, the individual must be accepted by the
                  re-enactment community in order to function as an officer, and right again if
                  you are implying (as you seem to be) that without any formal set up it can be
                  a bit difficult for a newcomer to tell who these people are. The only thing I
                  can say is you know 'em when you see 'em.

                  Cheers

                  Tim
                • JGIL1812@aol.com
                  In a message dated 12/5/00 7:15:20 PM Pacific Standard Time, kevin.windsor@sympatico.ca writes:
                  Message 8 of 14 , Dec 6, 2000
                  • 0 Attachment
                    In a message dated 12/5/00 7:15:20 PM Pacific Standard Time,
                    kevin.windsor@... writes:

                    << There is such an "in group" of those the
                    re-enactment community feels are officers and everyone else is just
                    playing. >>

                    Kevin,

                    I hope I am not misreading what you are saying here? There is a "in group"
                    both at the officer level and below. It is not just a question of how an
                    officer would be received by the OR's but also how a new recruit is perceived
                    by other groups. I have read may times on the list how seasoned re-enactors
                    have had an issue standing in line with "newbies." Especially, from another
                    group and the conversation always revolves around drill.

                    Bottom line ... we all know who can and who can't. I know many seasoned
                    re-enactors that chock on the thought of giving an order. To make the hobby
                    grow we need to encourage participation in whatever means we can: ordinary
                    ranker, ensign or God forbid another Colour Sergeant.
                  Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.