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Re: [WarOf1812] Naval battles

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  • Rob Taylor
    ... wrote: Also you could back up my theory that a lot of the U.S crews were British deserters, that goes for U.S land forces also. The
    Message 1 of 4 , Sep 1, 2000
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      --- "Ibbotson, Mark [LSS]"
      <m.ibbotson@...> wrote:
      Also you could back up
      my theory that a lot of the U.S crews were British
      deserters, that goes for U.S land forces also.

      The book by Roosevelt, says something to this effect.
      In it he says James makes this assumption, Roosevelt
      disagrees. This is why I want to find other books on
      the subject. Each side seams to be accusing the other
      of exaggerating. At least that's what I read in this
      one book.

      <m.ibbotson@...> wrote:
      You have to remember the
      states only had those bloody frigates and 1 v 1
      against a british frigate showed who had superior
      designs.

      That's what I have learned so far. That and the better
      trained crews made the world of difference.

      --- "Ibbotson, Mark [LSS]"
      <m.ibbotson@...> wrote:
      If only Yeo had the
      balls of Nelson eh.


      It would have made the world of difference I suspect.
      But it seems on Lake Ontario, both were content to do
      almost nothing, while blaming the other for not
      initiating the battles.



      > Rob I do not know if Jame's book is still in print
      > but i have seen the book you refer too but never
      > bothered to read it. perhaps now i will.
      >
      > Superior frigates on the U.S side showed Britain a
      > thing or two. Even some spectacular defeats "Perry"
      > & constitution for a start.
      >
      > Britian did manage a successfull blockade in the
      > end, 74 gun + men o war saw to that.
      > You have to remember the states only had those
      > bloody frigates and 1 v 1 against a british frigate
      > showed who had superior designs.
      >
      > Also you could back up my theory that a lot of the
      > U.S crews were British deserters, that goes for U.S
      > land forces also.
      >
      > If only Yeo had the balls of Nelson eh.
      >
      > Ibbo
      >


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    • Fitzhugh MacCrae
      ... When scott Surrendered at Queenston Hts, there were 700-odd prisoners taken, of whom the British claimed about 100 were deserters, because they were Irish.
      Message 2 of 4 , Sep 1, 2000
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        --- Rob Taylor <niagara_falls_98@...> wrote:

        > >
        > > Also you could back up my theory that a lot of the
        > > U.S crews were British deserters, that goes for
        > U.S
        > > land forces also.
        > >
        > > If only Yeo had the balls of Nelson eh.
        > >
        > > Ibbo
        > >

        When scott Surrendered at Queenston Hts, there were
        700-odd prisoners taken, of whom the British claimed
        about 100 were deserters, because they were Irish.
        After the war, they were released, the British
        Government admiting that just because they had been
        born in Ireland didn't make them deserters.

        You need to keep in mind that England's position was
        "Born an Englishman, always an Englishman" - since it
        had been only 36 years since the declaration of
        Independence, most adult Americans (including the
        entire government) would stiill be considered
        Englishmen under that attitude.
        Now, I don't know if there was any significant numbeer
        of British deserters in the land forces, but I have
        compared the list of names of local boys who went out
        and joined the regulars in sufficient numbers to
        provide an entire company, and compared it to the
        company lists for that regiment, and it matches.

        If there were a lot of deserters in the army in 1812,
        they seem to have mostly dissappeared by early 1814 -
        perhaps this is one of the reasons for the army's
        greatly improved capabilities? After all, as the
        British found out with the Chasseurs Brittanique,
        turncoats who have somewhere to run don't fight well.


        Fitz

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      • Scott Jeznach
        ... slightly trained for the job of seamen against Perry and his mob, this mob been full of RN deserters. Does anyone have any real figures on this ... From
        Message 3 of 4 , Sep 1, 2000
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          >I assumed that the battle of lake Eire was fought with british soldier
          slightly trained for the job of seamen against Perry and his mob, this mob
          been full of RN deserters. Does anyone have any real figures on this
          >
          >Ibbo
          >52 NIAGARA fld battery
          >


          From what I read, the British ships were originally manned by the
          "Provincial Marine," local seamen in HM's Service. Their lack of success
          prodded the Royal Navy to start shipping officers, petty officers, and
          seamen over to Lake Erie. Many of whom were marched overland from New
          Foundland and other Atlantic and North Sea ports.

          Scott J.
          Royal Marines
        • Rob Taylor
          Thanks Patrick I ll order it Rob Taylor ... ===== War of 1812 Website: war1812.tripod.com __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!?
          Message 4 of 4 , Sep 1, 2000
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            Thanks Patrick I'll order it

            Rob Taylor
            --- "Schifferdecker, Patrick"
            <patrick.schifferdecker@...> wrote:
            > Rob,
            > This book seems to give a balanced account & nice
            > pictures too!
            > Gardiner, Robert - Editor
            > 1998 The Naval War of 1812. Chatham. London
            >
            >


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