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Re: [WarOf1812]

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  • crttop7311@aol.com
    The 14th Light Dragoons are listed as an American unit, I note that has been changed as previously, and correctly, they were listed on the British roster. E
    Message 1 of 26 , Aug 1, 2000
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      The 14th Light Dragoons are listed as an American unit, I note that has been changed as previously, and correctly, they were listed on the British roster.

      E Matthews,
      XIV L.D.
    • Walt Dubbeld
      Jeez. Ratpick Mess with the order of things all you want, but the 1st. U.S. Light Artillery really did exist in 1812 Walt----- Original Message ----- From:
      Message 2 of 26 , Aug 1, 2000
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        Jeez. Ratpick
        Mess with the order of things all you want, but the 1st. U.S. Light
        Artillery really did exist in 1812
        Walt----- Original Message -----
        From: "Schifferdecker, Patrick" <patrick.schifferdecker@...>
        To: <WarOf1812@egroups.com>
        Sent: Tuesday, August 01, 2000 12:29 PM
        Subject: [WarOf1812]


        > Now that its been analyzed to death, I thought I'd change it!
        > Cheers
        > Patrick Schifferdecker, Lieut. RN
        >
        > Recreated Military Units that are represented
        > on the 1812 Onelist
        >
        > British
        >
        > Royal Navy
        > British Staff
        > Royal Marines
        > 1st Foot Guards
        >
        > Royal Engineers
        > 19th Light Dragoons
        > 10th Royal Veteran Battalion
        >
        > 1st (Royal Scots) Regt of Foot
        > 8th (King's) Regt. of Foot
        > 9th (East Norfolk) Regt. of Foot,
        > 21th (RNBF/Scots Fusiliers)Regt of Foot
        > 23rd Regt of Foot
        > 37th (North Hampshire) Regt of Foot
        > 41st Regt. of Foot
        > 49th Regt. of Foot
        > 73rd Regt of Foot
        > 89th Regt of Foot
        > 93rd (Sutherland Highlanders) Regt of Foot
        > 95th (Rifles) Regt of Foot
        > ________________________
        >
        > Foreign Regt's in British Service
        >
        > De Meruon's (Swiss) Regt
        > De Watteville's (Swiss) Regt
        > _____________________
        >
        > British North American Regulars
        >
        > Royal Newfoundland Fencibles
        > Canadian Fencibles
        > Glengarry Light Infantry Fencibles
        > __________________
        >
        > Provinical Corps
        >
        > Canadian Voltiguers
        > Michigan Fencibles
        >
        > __________________
        > Canadian Embodied and Sedentary Militia
        >
        > The Incoporated Militia of Upper Canada
        > 1st Regt. Kent Militia
        > The Forces of Lord Selkirk
        > Corps of Canadian Voyageurs
        >
        >
        > U.S.A.
        > _______________________
        > American Army
        >
        > 1ST Regt. of Rifles
        >
        > 1st US Inf
        > 4th US Inf
        > 7th US Inf
        > 8th US Inf
        > 17th US Inf
        > 19th US Inf.
        > 25th US Inf.
        > _______________
        >
        > 2nd U.S. Artillery
        > _______________
        > American Militia
        >
        > Jackson's Lifeguards
        > Missouri Rangers
        > Tennessee Volunteers
        > West Tennessee Militia
        > Plauché's Bttn. of Uniformed Militia
        > __________________
        > American Cavalry
        >
        > 14th Light Dragoons
        > US Light Dragoons
        > _______________________
        > US Navy
        >
        > Ship's Company
        > _______________________
        > French Army
        >
        > 21e Régiment de Ligne
        > Régiment Irlandais
        > _____________________________
        > Non 1812 Units
        >
        > 1st Queensland (Moreton) Regt 1887-1891
        > Queensland Scottish Volunteer Corps 1888
        > Queensland Permanent Force 1896
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
        square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
        square miles...
        >
        >
      • JGIL1812@aol.com
        In a message dated 8/7/00 1:57:31 PM Pacific Daylight Time, bigdad@freeway.net writes:
        Message 3 of 26 , Aug 7, 2000
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          In a message dated 8/7/00 1:57:31 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
          bigdad@... writes:

          << I may be wrong but I have thought of the War of 1812 as North America's
          first civil war. >>

          Please, while relations from families did fight for both sides during the
          war, this was anything but a civil war! It was plain American aggression.
          Nothing more. Nothing less.

          JG/RE
        • BritcomHMP@aol.com
          In a message dated 8/7/2000 3:57:32 PM Central Daylight Time, bigdad@freeway.net writes:
          Message 4 of 26 , Aug 7, 2000
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            In a message dated 8/7/2000 3:57:32 PM Central Daylight Time,
            bigdad@... writes:

            << How did the War of 1812 maintain Canada's independence? My Canadian
            history is a little fuzzy but didn't Canada become a nation around 1867?>>

            Because had Britain and the colonists not been able to throw out the US
            invasion Canada would not have had the opportunity to become independent in
            1867. They would have been 'merkins!

            << I may be wrong but I have thought of the War of 1812 as North America's
            first civil war. A brother against brother affair.>>

            No, that was the Revolutionary War, very much a civil war.


            << The US stood in Great Britons way.>>

            How? And you do know that the US declared the war don't you? (Just checking).

            << The British Empire was not built by anything but military might. >>

            Oh yes it was. It was built on trade, military actions were solely dictated
            on how much cash could be brought back to Britain. America was not brining in
            cash to Britain, in fact the war was draining it, that's why Britain had no
            interest in conquering the US, but the US had a GREAT interest in conquering
            the Canadas.

            << As I've said, these are opinions and not scientific fact. Kind of a
            reading between the lines. Could be right, could be wrong. >>

            Everyone is entitled to an opinion!

            Cheers

            Tim
          • Dave&Monica Bosse
            Dude, Take a pill. You guys were still a jewel in the english crown at 1812. Rember we do this for fun right? If you got to deep at looking into any conflict
            Message 5 of 26 , Aug 7, 2000
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              Dude,
              Take a pill. You guys were still a jewel in the english crown at 1812. Rember we do this for fun right? If you got to deep at looking into any conflict you would not want to dress in sweaty wool humping a musket and eating bad food. What ever you think about the war I think we all one. Where else do you have the longest unguarded boarder in the world?

              Dave Bosse
              (Americas Friend)
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: JGIL1812@...
              To: WarOf1812@egroups.com
              Sent: Monday, August 07, 2000 4:36 PM
              Subject: Re: [WarOf1812]


              In a message dated 8/7/00 1:57:31 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
              bigdad@... writes:

              << I may be wrong but I have thought of the War of 1812 as North America's
              first civil war. >>

              Please, while relations from families did fight for both sides during the
              war, this was anything but a civil war! It was plain American aggression.
              Nothing more. Nothing less.

              JG/RE

              ------------------------------------------------------------------------------



              ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
              The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of square miles...



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Fitzhugh MacCrae
              ... Interesting - that s what a lot of westerners thought of Hudson s bay Company for stirring up the local native population as a way to counter the inroads
              Message 6 of 26 , Aug 7, 2000
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                --- JGIL1812@... wrote:
                > In a message dated 8/7/00 1:57:31 PM Pacific
                > Daylight Time,
                > bigdad@... writes:
                >
                > << I may be wrong but I have thought of the War of
                > 1812 as North America's
                > first civil war. >>
                >
                > Please, while relations from families did fight for
                > both sides during the
                > war, this was anything but a civil war! It was plain
                > American aggression.
                > Nothing more. Nothing less.
                >
                > JG/RE
                >
                Interesting - that's what a lot of westerners thought
                of Hudson's bay Company for stirring up the local
                native population as a way to counter the inroads made
                by Astor's fur traders. . . .

                Fitz

                =====
                Founder, Pagan Liberation Antique Twinkies Collectors Front and Marching Chorale

                "Fluff Bunnies - The OTHER White Meat"

                "Come back, Guy Faulkes - all's forgiven. We'll leave a light on in the Capitol basement for you. . . ."

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              • JGIL1812@aol.com
                In a message dated 8/7/00 6:04:00 PM Pacific Daylight Time, alaidh@yahoo.com writes:
                Message 7 of 26 , Aug 7, 2000
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                  In a message dated 8/7/00 6:04:00 PM Pacific Daylight Time, alaidh@...
                  writes:

                  << that's what a lot of westerners thought
                  of Hudson's bay Company for stirring up the local
                  native population as a way to counter the inroads made
                  by Astor's fur traders. . . . >>

                  Ah but Fritz... the HBC basically owed most of the west at one point. The
                  Northwest Co. was just a poor imitation.

                  JG/RE
                • Fitzhugh MacCrae
                  ... Ah - so you re saying that HBC s inciting the natives was not done because they thought that Astor was a threat trade-wise. Okay, I give up. Why did they
                  Message 8 of 26 , Aug 7, 2000
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                    --- JGIL1812@... wrote:
                    > In a message dated 8/7/00 6:04:00 PM Pacific
                    > Daylight Time, alaidh@...
                    > writes:
                    >
                    > << that's what a lot of westerners thought
                    > of Hudson's bay Company for stirring up the local
                    > native population as a way to counter the inroads
                    > made
                    > by Astor's fur traders. . . . >>
                    >
                    > Ah but Fritz... the HBC basically owed most of the
                    > west at one point. The
                    > Northwest Co. was just a poor imitation.
                    >
                    > JG/RE

                    Ah - so you're saying that HBC's inciting the natives
                    was not done because they thought that Astor was a
                    threat trade-wise.
                    Okay, I give up.
                    Why did they do it, then?
                    I've never seen any substantiation that there was an
                    actual British government approved conspiricy behind
                    all the border unrest - I just thought that it was HBC
                    taking advantage of an unstable situation to protect
                    the future of their market slice.
                    If I am thus incorrect, what was the real reason HBC
                    was stirring up the redskins?


                    Fitz

                    =====
                    Founder, Pagan Liberation Antique Twinkies Collectors Front and Marching Chorale

                    "Fluff Bunnies - The OTHER White Meat"

                    "Come back, Guy Faulkes - all's forgiven. We'll leave a light on in the Capitol basement for you. . . ."

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                  • Rob Taylor
                    this was written by John R. Elting United States Army ... __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Kick off your party with Yahoo!
                    Message 9 of 26 , Aug 8, 2000
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                      this was written by John R. Elting United States Army
                      (Ret.) not me. He was an American historian:

                      ><Snip>
                      >Some Americans
                      >> have
                      >> seen it as a war of barefaced aggression
                      >> incompetently
                      >> directed, and too often stained by cowardice,
                      >> stupidity, and treason. Something of a national
                      >> disgrace, redeemed only by half-mythical deeds of
                      >> valour. Only the Canadians, who saw it as a
                      >> successful
                      >> war to maintain their independence, could write of
                      >> it
                      >> with pride.
                      >> Rob Taylor


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                    • Fitzhugh MacCrae
                      ... I m familiar with the late Col. Elting s work. Please note that the operative word there is some . Like in some Americans think that Bill Clinton is a
                      Message 10 of 26 , Aug 8, 2000
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                        --- Rob Taylor <niagara_falls_98@...> wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        > this was written by John R. Elting United States
                        > Army
                        > (Ret.) not me. He was an American historian:
                        >
                        > ><Snip>
                        > >Some Americans
                        > >> have
                        > >> seen it as a war of barefaced aggression
                        > >> incompetently
                        > >> directed, and too often stained by cowardice,
                        > >> stupidity, and treason. Something of a national
                        > >> disgrace, redeemed only by half-mythical deeds of
                        > >> valour. Only the Canadians, who saw it as a
                        > >> successful
                        > >> war to maintain their independence, could write
                        > of
                        > >> it
                        > >> with pride.
                        > >> Rob Taylor

                        I'm familiar with the late Col. Elting's work.
                        Please note that the operative word there is "some".

                        Like in "some" Americans think that Bill Clinton is a
                        decent, honest man who has been victemized by a vast
                        right-wing conspiricy;
                        Or, "some' Canadians think Maggie Trudeau is a shining
                        example of a practicing celibate;
                        Or, "some' people think that Elvis is still alive and
                        living in Edmonton under an assumed name.

                        "some". not all.


                        Fitz

                        =====
                        Founder, Pagan Liberation Antique Twinkies Collectors Front and Marching Chorale

                        "Fluff Bunnies - The OTHER White Meat"

                        "Come back, Guy Faulkes - all's forgiven. We'll leave a light on in the Capitol basement for you. . . ."

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                      • Dave&Monica Bosse
                        Rob I think you need some help, ... From: Rob Taylor To: WarOf1812@egroups.com Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2000 8:24 PM Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] this was written
                        Message 11 of 26 , Aug 8, 2000
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                          Rob I think you need some help,

                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: Rob Taylor
                          To: WarOf1812@egroups.com
                          Sent: Tuesday, August 08, 2000 8:24 PM
                          Subject: Re: [WarOf1812]




                          this was written by John R. Elting United States Army
                          (Ret.) not me. He was an American historian:

                          ><Snip>
                          >Some Americans
                          >> have
                          >> seen it as a war of barefaced aggression
                          >> incompetently
                          >> directed, and too often stained by cowardice,
                          >> stupidity, and treason. Something of a national
                          >> disgrace, redeemed only by half-mythical deeds of
                          >> valour. Only the Canadians, who saw it as a
                          >> successful
                          >> war to maintain their independence, could write of
                          >> it
                          >> with pride.
                          >> Rob Taylor


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                          ------------------------------------------------------------------------------



                          ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                          The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of square miles...



                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Rob Taylor
                          Well Fitz I was just replying to an e:mail saying that I wrote that. As far as Maggie goes I don t know of ANY that thought that. Rob ... ===== War of 1812
                          Message 12 of 26 , Aug 9, 2000
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                            Well Fitz I was just replying to an e:mail saying that
                            I wrote that. As far as Maggie goes I don't know of
                            ANY that thought that.

                            Rob
                            --- Fitzhugh MacCrae <alaidh@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > --- Rob Taylor <niagara_falls_98@...> wrote:
                            > >
                            > >
                            > > this was written by John R. Elting United States
                            > > Army
                            > > (Ret.) not me. He was an American historian:
                            > >
                            > > ><Snip>
                            > > >Some Americans
                            > > >> have
                            > > >> seen it as a war of barefaced aggression
                            > > >> incompetently
                            > > >> directed, and too often stained by cowardice,
                            > > >> stupidity, and treason. Something of a national
                            > > >> disgrace, redeemed only by half-mythical deeds
                            > of
                            > > >> valour. Only the Canadians, who saw it as a
                            > > >> successful
                            > > >> war to maintain their independence, could write
                            > > of
                            > > >> it
                            > > >> with pride.
                            > > >> Rob Taylor
                            >
                            > I'm familiar with the late Col. Elting's work.
                            > Please note that the operative word there is "some".
                            >
                            > Like in "some" Americans think that Bill Clinton is
                            > a
                            > decent, honest man who has been victemized by a vast
                            > right-wing conspiricy;
                            > Or, "some' Canadians think Maggie Trudeau is a
                            > shining
                            > example of a practicing celibate;
                            > Or, "some' people think that Elvis is still alive
                            > and
                            > living in Edmonton under an assumed name.
                            >
                            > "some". not all.
                            >
                            >
                            > Fitz
                            >
                            > =====
                            > Founder, Pagan Liberation Antique Twinkies
                            > Collectors Front and Marching Chorale
                            >
                            > "Fluff Bunnies - The OTHER White Meat"
                            >
                            > "Come back, Guy Faulkes - all's forgiven. We'll
                            > leave a light on in the Capitol basement for you. .
                            > . ."
                            >
                            > __________________________________________________
                            > Do You Yahoo!?
                            > Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.
                            > http://invites.yahoo.com/
                            >
                            > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over
                            > the fate of hundreds of square miles: in North
                            > America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS
                            > of square miles...
                            >


                            =====
                            War of 1812 Website: war1812.tripod.com

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                          • Rob Taylor
                            Well Fitz, I was only saying that I did not write that, Elting did. And I am aware of the word some . As far as Maggie, Bill and Elvis go, I imagine some do.
                            Message 13 of 26 , Aug 9, 2000
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                              Well Fitz, I was only saying that I did not write
                              that, Elting did. And I am aware of the word "some".
                              As far as Maggie, Bill and Elvis go, I imagine some
                              do.

                              Rob Taylor

                              --- Fitzhugh MacCrae <alaidh@...> wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              > I'm familiar with the late Col. Elting's work.
                              > Please note that the operative word there is "some".
                              >
                              > Like in "some" Americans think that Bill Clinton is
                              > a
                              > decent, honest man who has been victemized by a vast
                              > right-wing conspiricy;
                              > Or, "some' Canadians think Maggie Trudeau is a
                              > shining
                              > example of a practicing celibate;
                              > Or, "some' people think that Elvis is still alive
                              > and
                              > living in Edmonton under an assumed name.
                              >
                              > "some". not all.
                              >
                              >
                              > Fitz
                              >
                              > =====
                              > Founder, Pagan Liberation Antique Twinkies
                              > Collectors Front and Marching Chorale
                              >
                              > "Fluff Bunnies - The OTHER White Meat"
                              >
                              > "Come back, Guy Faulkes - all's forgiven. We'll
                              > leave a light on in the Capitol basement for you. .
                              > . ."
                              >
                              > __________________________________________________
                              > Do You Yahoo!?
                              > Kick off your party with Yahoo! Invites.
                              > http://invites.yahoo.com/
                              >
                              > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over
                              > the fate of hundreds of square miles: in North
                              > America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS
                              > of square miles...
                              >


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                            • Annette and Lloyd Gower
                              wow steve I make you a brit in a couple of battles and out comes the agression . what did you eat for breakfast today . Thank you for your help thias weekend.
                              Message 14 of 26 , Aug 9, 2000
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                                wow steve I make you a brit in a couple of battles and out comes the
                                agression . what did you eat for breakfast today .
                                Thank you for your help thias weekend.
                                Will you be at mississinewa ?
                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: Steve Detmer <bigdad@...>
                                To: WarOf1812@egroups.com <WarOf1812@egroups.com>
                                Date: Monday, August 07, 2000 4:56 PM
                                Subject: [WarOf1812]


                                ><Snip>
                                >Some Americans
                                >> have
                                >> seen it as a war of barefaced aggression
                                >> incompetently
                                >> directed, and too often stained by cowardice,
                                >> stupidity, and treason. Something of a national
                                >> disgrace, redeemed only by half-mythical deeds of
                                >> valour. Only the Canadians, who saw it as a
                                >> successful
                                >> war to maintain their independence, could write of
                                >> it
                                >> with pride.
                                >> Rob Taylor
                                ><Snip>
                                >>
                                >How did the War of 1812 maintain Canada's independence? My Canadian history
                                is a little fuzzy but didn't Canada become a nation around 1867? I may be
                                wrong but I have thought of the War of 1812 as North America's first civil
                                war. A brother against brother affair. I believe there were Canadians
                                fighting on the US side as well as Americans on the British side. I think
                                the Americans might have believed that once the war started the Canadians
                                would join in to overthrow what they believed (right or wrong) to be
                                Canada's oppressors.
                                >The US stood in Great Britons way. They coveted the west and there was a
                                big rush to explore and claim that country. I am not saying this is right or
                                wrong. It is the way it was back then. Strong nations sought to conquer. The
                                British Empire was not built by anything but military might. They used their
                                muscle all around the world, Africa, India, China, America... it didn't
                                matter. It was the way of the world then. Strong nations of every race
                                sought more land.
                                >America, Canada, and Great Britain remind me of some families I've seen.
                                They usually get along, sometimes they fight and call names but, NO ONE ELSE
                                HAD BETTER TOUCH THEM!! As I've said, these are opinions and not scientific
                                fact. Kind of a reading between the lines. Could be right, could be wrong.
                                >Peace Brothers.
                                >God Bless the Mackinac Rifles.
                                >Steve Detmer
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
                                square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
                                square miles...
                                >
                                >
                              • Rob Taylor
                                ... Well it s in the back of his book Amateur to Arms and I quoted him because Fitz had mentioned Mr. Elting on a different issue. thanks for the help Dave
                                Message 15 of 26 , Aug 9, 2000
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                                  --- Dave&Monica Bosse <monga589@...> wrote:
                                  > Rob I think you need some help,
                                  >
                                  Well it's in the back of his book "Amateur to Arms"
                                  and I quoted him because Fitz had mentioned Mr. Elting
                                  on a different issue.

                                  thanks for the help Dave and or Monica

                                  Rob Taylor
                                  this was written by John R. Elting United States
                                  Army (Ret.) not me. He was an American historian:

                                  ><Snip>
                                  >Some Americans have seen it as a war of barefaced
                                  aggression incompetently directed, and too often
                                  stained by cowardice, stupidity, and treason.
                                  Something of a national disgrace, redeemed only by
                                  half-mythical deeds of valour. Only the Canadians, who
                                  saw it as a successful war to maintain their
                                  independence, could write of it with pride.


                                  Rob Taylor
                                  __________________________________________________

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                                • JGIL1812@aol.com
                                  In a message dated 8/8/00 9:07:47 PM Pacific Daylight Time, alaidh@yahoo.com writes:
                                  Message 16 of 26 , Aug 9, 2000
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                                    In a message dated 8/8/00 9:07:47 PM Pacific Daylight Time, alaidh@...
                                    writes:

                                    << Like in "some" Americans think that Bill Clinton is a
                                    decent, honest man who has been victemized by a vast
                                    right-wing conspiricy;
                                    Or, "some' Canadians think Maggie Trudeau is a shining
                                    example of a practicing celibate;
                                    Or, "some' people think that Elvis is still alive and
                                    living in Edmonton under an assumed name.
                                    >>

                                    Fritz,

                                    The good Colonel "is" a military man and quite a good writer and historian.
                                    Nice to see someone south of the border realize the truth has many faces.

                                    Your humble servant,

                                    JG/RE
                                  • Fitzhugh MacCrae
                                    ... Um, was , I m afraid - newsgroups day he died about seven weeks ago. Fitz ===== Founder, Pagan Liberation Antique Twinkies Collectors Front and Marching
                                    Message 17 of 26 , Aug 9, 2000
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                                      --- JGIL1812@... wrote:
                                      > In a message dated 8/8/00 9:07:47 PM Pacific
                                      > Daylight Time, alaidh@...
                                      > writes:
                                      >
                                      > << Like in "some" Americans think that Bill Clinton
                                      > is a
                                      > decent, honest man who has been victemized by a
                                      > vast
                                      > right-wing conspiricy;
                                      > Or, "some' Canadians think Maggie Trudeau is a
                                      > shining
                                      > example of a practicing celibate;
                                      > Or, "some' people think that Elvis is still alive
                                      > and
                                      > living in Edmonton under an assumed name.
                                      > >>
                                      >
                                      > Fritz,
                                      >
                                      > The good Colonel "is" a military man and quite a
                                      > good writer and historian.
                                      >

                                      Um, 'was', I'm afraid - newsgroups day he died about
                                      seven weeks ago.

                                      Fitz

                                      =====
                                      Founder, Pagan Liberation Antique Twinkies Collectors Front and Marching Chorale

                                      "Fluff Bunnies - The OTHER White Meat"

                                      "Come back, Guy Faulkes - all's forgiven. We'll leave a light on in the Capitol basement for you. . . ."

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                                    • Fitzhugh MacCrae
                                      ... Sigh. Hull marched about a dozen miles into Ontario, made a speech, and left. Best evidence indicates York was burned by Canadian turncoats. Newark was
                                      Message 18 of 26 , Sep 4, 2000
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        --- "Ibbotson, Mark [LSS]"
                                        <m.ibbotson@...> wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2000 16:34:04 -0700 (PDT)
                                        > From: james barnwell <barnlll@...>
                                        > Subject: Re: Re: Lake Erie squadron complements
                                        >
                                        > I do not think the Battle of Lake Erie diverted many
                                        > American "resourses". If we could of cut Canada in
                                        > two,The Battle of Lake Erie would of been
                                        > unnecessary,as british troops would of had a supply
                                        > problen.Had our northeast not supplied the british
                                        > with foodstuffs,Canada would of not been able to
                                        > feed
                                        > a large army.
                                        > Thank goodness McArthur burned a lot
                                        > of
                                        > mills and farms.
                                        > I am happy that the war turned out to be
                                        > a
                                        > draw.I do like to wonder about "What if", like a
                                        > full
                                        > blown invasion of the United States from Canada,or
                                        > Cockburn continuing to rape and plunder.
                                        >
                                        > Hey Hey who started the plunder in the first place?
                                        > Who invaded who first? who burned York, Newark ect.
                                        > Don't go barking about rape and plunder when it was
                                        > the U.S forces who initiated it all in the first
                                        > place. Washington was sacked to show you guys what
                                        > it really is like. A lesson to be learned by a new
                                        > nation with big ambitions.
                                        >
                                        > Ibbo
                                        >
                                        Sigh.
                                        Hull marched about a dozen miles into Ontario, made a
                                        speech, and left.
                                        Best evidence indicates York was burned by Canadian
                                        turncoats.
                                        Newark was burned against orders, the locals were
                                        given a day to get their belongings out, and the
                                        officer responsible, McClure resigned in disgrace for
                                        his actions.
                                        You want to talk rape and pillage? Read Lt.Col
                                        Napier's account of the rape of Hampton, after the
                                        town surrendered on terms. The army and the RN were
                                        completely embarrassed by what happened (over a
                                        hundred documented rapes, six documented murders,
                                        widespread looting and arson). Napier called the whole
                                        thing disgraceful and took pride in the fact that his
                                        regiment, the 102nd, stood in ranks and did not
                                        participate.
                                        The main culprits were the Chasseurs Brittanique
                                        (French turncoats) and the RN.
                                        The RN was so determined that this never happened
                                        again that when Washington was taken, Cochrane offered
                                        to hang a sailor on the spot if the distrought woman
                                        claiming rape would identify her assailant.
                                        The Chasseurs Brittanique were declared to be "worse
                                        than useless" and were ordered to be sent where they
                                        "might be of some value".
                                        They were sent to Canada.

                                        Fitz


                                        >


                                        =====
                                        Founder, Pagan Liberation Antique Twinkies Collectors Front and Marching Chorale

                                        "Fluff Bunnies - The OTHER White Meat"

                                        "Come back, Guy Faulkes - all's forgiven. We'll leave a light on in the Capitol basement for you. . . ."

                                        __________________________________________________
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                                      • Rob Taylor
                                        ... Best evidence indicates York was burned by Canadian turncoats. And U.S. sailors Fitz, don t leave them out. ... Hull marched about a dozen miles into
                                        Message 19 of 26 , Sep 4, 2000
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                                          --- Fitzhugh MacCrae <alaidh@...> wrote:
                                          Best evidence indicates York was burned by Canadian
                                          turncoats.

                                          And U.S. sailors Fitz, don't leave them out.

                                          --- Fitzhugh MacCrae <alaidh@...> wrote:
                                          Hull marched about a dozen miles into Ontario, made
                                          a speech, and left.

                                          The speech you refer too was a written ploclaimation
                                          handed out and posted everywhere. Hull left because he
                                          feared the Indians that were flowing over the border
                                          to help Tecumseh and the British, had there been no
                                          resistance like he had expected he would have stayed.
                                          Nope they were not afraid of him. But he did scoop up
                                          a few turncoats .... better off rid of them anyways
                                          eh?

                                          --- Fitzhugh MacCrae <alaidh@...> wrote:
                                          Newark was burned against orders, the locals were
                                          given a day to get their belongings out, and the
                                          officer responsible, McClure resigned in disgrace for
                                          his actions.

                                          So that makes it alright? It was December the middle
                                          of winter, one of the coldest on record. Driving
                                          Civilians out of their homes into the freezing cold.
                                          Then burning everything. One kindly old woman froze to
                                          death, and all suffered greatly. In the Niagara
                                          campaign there were not many buildings that were not
                                          torched, and it was not the British that did this.
                                          Interesting gloss over, while depicting the British
                                          as the evil ones, in detail.
                                          Rob Taylor



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                                        • Sue Draper
                                          Best evidence most certainly does not indicate that turncoats burned York. If you re interested in getting the full account of it, please contact Carl Benn,
                                          Message 20 of 26 , Sep 4, 2000
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                                            Best evidence most certainly does not indicate that turncoats burned York. If you're interested in getting the full account of it, please contact Carl Benn, the curator at Historic Fort York in Toronto. He can be emailed via the City of Toronto's webpage.

                                            -T.Mac

                                            -----Original Message-----
                                            From: Rob Taylor <niagara_falls_98@...>
                                            To: WarOf1812@egroups.com <WarOf1812@egroups.com>
                                            Date: September 4, 2000 11:11 AM
                                            Subject: Re: [WarOf1812]




                                            My Groups | WarOf1812 Main Page | Start a new group!



                                            --- Fitzhugh MacCrae <alaidh@...> wrote:
                                            Best evidence indicates York was burned by Canadian
                                            turncoats.

                                            And U.S. sailors Fitz, don't leave them out.

                                            --- Fitzhugh MacCrae <alaidh@...> wrote:
                                            Hull marched about a dozen miles into Ontario, made
                                            a speech, and left.

                                            The speech you refer too was a written ploclaimation
                                            handed out and posted everywhere. Hull left because he
                                            feared the Indians that were flowing over the border
                                            to help Tecumseh and the British, had there been no
                                            resistance like he had expected he would have stayed.
                                            Nope they were not afraid of him. But he did scoop up
                                            a few turncoats .... better off rid of them anyways
                                            eh?

                                            --- Fitzhugh MacCrae <alaidh@...> wrote:
                                            Newark was burned against orders, the locals were
                                            given a day to get their belongings out, and the
                                            officer responsible, McClure resigned in disgrace for
                                            his actions.

                                            So that makes it alright? It was December the middle
                                            of winter, one of the coldest on record. Driving
                                            Civilians out of their homes into the freezing cold.
                                            Then burning everything. One kindly old woman froze to
                                            death, and all suffered greatly. In the Niagara
                                            campaign there were not many buildings that were not
                                            torched, and it was not the British that did this.
                                            Interesting gloss over, while depicting the British
                                            as the evil ones, in detail.
                                            Rob Taylor



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                                            The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of square miles...




                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • Fitzhugh MacCrae
                                            ... Well, I COULD have mentioned what happened at Buffalo - the accounts that I ve read say that they were able to find the bodies under the snow and ashes
                                            Message 21 of 26 , Sep 4, 2000
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              --- Rob Taylor <niagara_falls_98@...> wrote:
                                              >
                                              > --- Fitzhugh MacCrae <alaidh@...> wrote:
                                              > Best evidence indicates York was burned by Canadian
                                              > turncoats.
                                              >
                                              > And U.S. sailors Fitz, don't leave them out.
                                              >
                                              > --- Fitzhugh MacCrae <alaidh@...> wrote:
                                              > Hull marched about a dozen miles into Ontario,
                                              > made
                                              > a speech, and left.
                                              >
                                              > The speech you refer too was a written ploclaimation
                                              > handed out and posted everywhere. Hull left because
                                              > he
                                              > feared the Indians that were flowing over the border
                                              > to help Tecumseh and the British, had there been no
                                              > resistance like he had expected he would have
                                              > stayed.
                                              > Nope they were not afraid of him. But he did scoop
                                              > up
                                              > a few turncoats .... better off rid of them anyways
                                              > eh?
                                              >
                                              > --- Fitzhugh MacCrae <alaidh@...> wrote:
                                              > Newark was burned against orders, the locals
                                              > were
                                              > given a day to get their belongings out, and the
                                              > officer responsible, McClure resigned in disgrace
                                              > for
                                              > his actions.
                                              >
                                              > So that makes it alright? It was December the middle
                                              > of winter, one of the coldest on record. Driving
                                              > Civilians out of their homes into the freezing cold.
                                              >
                                              > Then burning everything. One kindly old woman froze
                                              > to
                                              > death, and all suffered greatly. In the Niagara
                                              > campaign there were not many buildings that were not
                                              > torched, and it was not the British that did this.
                                              > Interesting gloss over, while depicting the British
                                              > as the evil ones, in detail.
                                              > Rob Taylor
                                              >

                                              Well, I COULD have mentioned what happened at Buffalo
                                              - the accounts that I've read say that they were able
                                              to find the bodies under the snow and ashes because
                                              that was where the pigs were rooting around.
                                              Please note that I mentioned that the acts at Hampton
                                              were primarily the actions of the Chasseurs
                                              Brittanique, who were French, not English, and how the
                                              British troops of the 102nd stood to ranks and refused
                                              to participate.
                                              This does not depict the British as evil, but it
                                              certainly shows a breakdown in the command structure
                                              that it happened at all.

                                              Fitz

                                              =====
                                              Founder, Pagan Liberation Antique Twinkies Collectors Front and Marching Chorale

                                              "Fluff Bunnies - The OTHER White Meat"

                                              "Come back, Guy Faulkes - all's forgiven. We'll leave a light on in the Capitol basement for you. . . ."

                                              __________________________________________________
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                                            • Rob Taylor
                                              ... Well, I COULD have mentioned what happened at Buffalo ... You should have Fitz. Then I would have mentioned that this was done in retaliation for the
                                              Message 22 of 26 , Sep 4, 2000
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                                                --- Fitzhugh MacCrae <alaidh@...> wrote:
                                                Well, I COULD have mentioned what happened at Buffalo

                                                --- Rob Taylor <niagara_falls_98@...> wrote:
                                                You should have Fitz. Then I would have mentioned
                                                that this was done in retaliation for the burning of
                                                Newark, then there were the raids on Port Dover and
                                                communities on Lake Erie by the Americans burning
                                                mills and homes, killing cattle. It was said that this
                                                was in retaliation for the burning of Buffalo. And so
                                                it goes.

                                                Rob Taylor

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                                              • Fitzhugh MacCrae
                                                ... ===== Founder, Pagan Liberation Antique Twinkies Collectors Front and Marching Chorale Fluff Bunnies - The OTHER White Meat Come back, Guy Faulkes -
                                                Message 23 of 26 , Sep 4, 2000
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                                                  --- Rob Taylor <niagara_falls_98@...> wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > --- Fitzhugh MacCrae <alaidh@...> wrote:
                                                  > Well, I COULD have mentioned what happened at
                                                  > Buffalo
                                                  >
                                                  > --- Rob Taylor <niagara_falls_98@...> wrote:
                                                  > You should have Fitz. Then I would have mentioned
                                                  > that this was done in retaliation for the burning of
                                                  > Newark, then there were the raids on Port Dover and
                                                  > communities on Lake Erie by the Americans burning
                                                  > mills and homes, killing cattle. It was said that
                                                  > this
                                                  > was in retaliation for the burning of Buffalo. And
                                                  > so
                                                  > it goes.
                                                  >
                                                  > Rob Taylor
                                                  >
                                                  > __________________________________________________
                                                  > Do You Yahoo!?
                                                  > Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from
                                                  > anywhere!
                                                  > http://mail.yahoo.com/
                                                  >


                                                  =====
                                                  Founder, Pagan Liberation Antique Twinkies Collectors Front and Marching Chorale

                                                  "Fluff Bunnies - The OTHER White Meat"

                                                  "Come back, Guy Faulkes - all's forgiven. We'll leave a light on in the Capitol basement for you. . . ."

                                                  __________________________________________________
                                                  Do You Yahoo!?
                                                  Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from anywhere!
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                                                • james barnwell
                                                  From What I have read,it was us,(US)that started the burning.I said what I said about Mcarthur because it was difficult to feed both the British troops,Indian
                                                  Message 24 of 26 , Sep 4, 2000
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                                                    From What I have read,it was us,(US)that started the
                                                    burning.I said what I said about Mcarthur because it
                                                    was difficult to feed both the British troops,Indian
                                                    allies and their familys here along the Detroit River.
                                                    I believe that Hull's adventure into what
                                                    is now Windsor was the first entry into Canada by US
                                                    forces....But The British had already taken Mackinac.
                                                    I believe that the burning of Washington,and
                                                    other areas in our southeast,was in retaliation for
                                                    our burning of york and other areas of Canada.Tit for
                                                    Tat?
                                                    Jim Barnwell
                                                    --- Fitzhugh MacCrae <alaidh@...> wrote:
                                                    >
                                                    > --- "Ibbotson, Mark [LSS]"
                                                    > <m.ibbotson@...> wrote:
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Date: Sat, 2 Sep 2000 16:34:04 -0700 (PDT)
                                                    > > From: james barnwell <barnlll@...>
                                                    > > Subject: Re: Re: Lake Erie squadron complements
                                                    > >
                                                    > > I do not think the Battle of Lake Erie diverted
                                                    > many
                                                    > > American "resourses". If we could of cut Canada in
                                                    > > two,The Battle of Lake Erie would of been
                                                    > > unnecessary,as british troops would of had a
                                                    > supply
                                                    > > problen.Had our northeast not supplied the british
                                                    > > with foodstuffs,Canada would of not been able to
                                                    > > feed
                                                    > > a large army.
                                                    > > Thank goodness McArthur burned a lot
                                                    > > of
                                                    > > mills and farms.
                                                    > > I am happy that the war turned out to
                                                    > be
                                                    > > a
                                                    > > draw.I do like to wonder about "What if", like a
                                                    > > full
                                                    > > blown invasion of the United States from Canada,or
                                                    > > Cockburn continuing to rape and plunder.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Hey Hey who started the plunder in the first
                                                    > place?
                                                    > > Who invaded who first? who burned York, Newark
                                                    > ect.
                                                    > > Don't go barking about rape and plunder when it
                                                    > was
                                                    > > the U.S forces who initiated it all in the first
                                                    > > place. Washington was sacked to show you guys what
                                                    > > it really is like. A lesson to be learned by a new
                                                    > > nation with big ambitions.
                                                    > >
                                                    > > Ibbo
                                                    > >
                                                    > Sigh.
                                                    > Hull marched about a dozen miles into Ontario, made
                                                    > a
                                                    > speech, and left.
                                                    > Best evidence indicates York was burned by Canadian
                                                    > turncoats.
                                                    > Newark was burned against orders, the locals were
                                                    > given a day to get their belongings out, and the
                                                    > officer responsible, McClure resigned in disgrace
                                                    > for
                                                    > his actions.
                                                    > You want to talk rape and pillage? Read Lt.Col
                                                    > Napier's account of the rape of Hampton, after the
                                                    > town surrendered on terms. The army and the RN were
                                                    > completely embarrassed by what happened (over a
                                                    > hundred documented rapes, six documented murders,
                                                    > widespread looting and arson). Napier called the
                                                    > whole
                                                    > thing disgraceful and took pride in the fact that
                                                    > his
                                                    > regiment, the 102nd, stood in ranks and did not
                                                    > participate.
                                                    > The main culprits were the Chasseurs Brittanique
                                                    > (French turncoats) and the RN.
                                                    > The RN was so determined that this never happened
                                                    > again that when Washington was taken, Cochrane
                                                    > offered
                                                    > to hang a sailor on the spot if the distrought woman
                                                    > claiming rape would identify her assailant.
                                                    > The Chasseurs Brittanique were declared to be "worse
                                                    > than useless" and were ordered to be sent where they
                                                    > "might be of some value".
                                                    > They were sent to Canada.
                                                    >
                                                    > Fitz
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > >
                                                    >
                                                    >
                                                    > =====
                                                    > Founder, Pagan Liberation Antique Twinkies
                                                    > Collectors Front and Marching Chorale
                                                    >
                                                    > "Fluff Bunnies - The OTHER White Meat"
                                                    >
                                                    > "Come back, Guy Faulkes - all's forgiven. We'll
                                                    > leave a light on in the Capitol basement for you. .
                                                    > . ."
                                                    >
                                                    > __________________________________________________
                                                    > Do You Yahoo!?
                                                    > Yahoo! Mail - Free email you can access from
                                                    > anywhere!
                                                    > http://mail.yahoo.com/
                                                    >


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