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Re: [WarOf1812] Port Dover

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  • lee caripidis
    Thanks Larry. Got that one the first time around, but am I to assume that the event was cancelled due to the mud? ( I was to attend but at the last moment our
    Message 1 of 10 , May 22, 2000
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      Thanks Larry. Got that one the first time around, but am I to assume that
      the event was cancelled due to the mud? ( I was to attend but at the
      last moment our ride fell through.
      I wanted to know if the event actually took place or was cancelled).

      On Mon, 22 May 2000 17:17:29 -0400 "Larry Lozon" <lalozon@...>
      writes:
      >Question
      >From: lee caripidis <ditlegrec@...>
      >
      >Could someone give us a report on Port Dover?
      >------------------------------
      >
      >Answer From: Five Rivers <lgsteph@...>
      >Date: Saturday, May 20, 2000 1:49 PM
      >Subject: [WarOf1812] Port Dover
      >
      >
      > Gary and I just wanted to take a moment to commend Bob Blakely and
      >his
      >crew for putting together a marvelous organizational effort for the
      >Port
      >Dover event. Although we couldn't get into the site because of so much
      >rain
      >and soggy ground, and had to turn around and come home, the package
      >with
      >which Bob sent us has made for extremely informative and fascinating
      >reading. It is plain this has been an enormous organizational
      >enterprise on
      >Bob and his crew's part, and we just wanted to say thank you, well
      >done.
      >----------------------------
      >
      >From the grapevine:
      >( my niece: .......even tractors were stuck in the mud!
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      >THOUSANDS of square miles...
      >
    • Kevin Windsor
      I wasn t there for the whole weekend but let me put in my two cents anyway. The field was MUD!!! I even heard a camparison to Mississinamud (Mr Feltoe)The
      Message 2 of 10 , May 22, 2000
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        I wasn't there for the whole weekend but let me put in my two cents anyway.
        The field was MUD!!! I even heard a camparison to Mississinamud (Mr
        Feltoe)The first thing that shocked my was the lack of organisation of the
        camp. The British site consisted of 4 or 5 tents and 5 suttlers. The rest
        were up on top of the hill because of the mud. The American camp was about
        a five minute walk away from that at the back of the camp. I did not make
        it down there, but my cousin who wishes to join a unit because of this
        weekend said he saw someones car parked back there, a blue plastic tarp and
        someone had a spray can of something sitting on their table. The battle
        was good, but many times the public decided to walk through the different
        units that were marching. The horse and wagon for the loot didn't show up
        and Bob was forced to use a car that followed behind the Americans. The
        buckskinners were always in the way of every group doing a left wheel to
        get out of the way. My unit was almost shot by them while wheeling.

        All in all many things went wrong with the Saturday that were caused by
        weather and reliance on other people. Bob did a great job or organising
        this event, but the fates were conspiring...
        I am looking forward to next year though to see if the bugs have been
        worked out.

        Kevin Windsor
        Cpl. 89th Grenadiers

        ----------
        Question
        > From: lee caripidis <ditlegrec@...>
        >
        > Could someone give us a report on Port Dover?
      • Wattie, Chris
        The mud and the rain made it less than enjoyable, certainly. But no fault to the organizers: can t do nothin bout the weather! Because of that, we all bugged
        Message 3 of 10 , May 22, 2000
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          The mud and the rain made it less than enjoyable, certainly. But no fault to
          the organizers: can't do nothin' bout the weather! Because of that, we all
          bugged out Saturday afternoon unfortunately: does anyone know how Sunday
          went?
          The street battle was fun, although I wish we'd gotten to do more looting :)
          But you're dead right about those buckskinners: they were bloody menaces!
          Firing from behind a line of infantry, firing what had to be double powder
          charges, firing from the hip fergawd's sake, etc.
          Chris Wattie

          > ----------
          > From: Kevin Windsor
          > Reply To: WarOf1812@egroups.com
          > Sent: Monday, May 22, 2000 23:48
          > To: WarOf1812@egroups.com
          > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Port Dover
          >
          > I wasn't there for the whole weekend but let me put in my two cents
          > anyway.
          > The field was MUD!!! I even heard a camparison to Mississinamud (Mr
          > Feltoe)The first thing that shocked my was the lack of organisation of the
          > camp. The British site consisted of 4 or 5 tents and 5 suttlers. The
          > rest
          > were up on top of the hill because of the mud. The American camp was
          > about
          > a five minute walk away from that at the back of the camp. I did not make
          > it down there, but my cousin who wishes to join a unit because of this
          > weekend said he saw someones car parked back there, a blue plastic tarp
          > and
          > someone had a spray can of something sitting on their table. The battle
          > was good, but many times the public decided to walk through the different
          > units that were marching. The horse and wagon for the loot didn't show up
          > and Bob was forced to use a car that followed behind the Americans. The
          > buckskinners were always in the way of every group doing a left wheel to
          > get out of the way. My unit was almost shot by them while wheeling.
          >
          > All in all many things went wrong with the Saturday that were caused by
          > weather and reliance on other people. Bob did a great job or organising
          > this event, but the fates were conspiring...
          > I am looking forward to next year though to see if the bugs have been
          > worked out.
          >
          > Kevin Windsor
          > Cpl. 89th Grenadiers
          >
          > ----------
          > Question
          > > From: lee caripidis <ditlegrec@...>
          > >
          > > Could someone give us a report on Port Dover?
          >
          >
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          > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
          > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS
          > of square miles...
          >
        • lee caripidis
          May I ask an obvious question? What are buckskinners doing at a War of 1812 event ? On Mon, 22 May 2000 21:35:33 -0500 The Bosse Family
          Message 4 of 10 , May 22, 2000
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            May I ask an obvious question? What are buckskinners doing at a War of
            1812 event ?

            On Mon, 22 May 2000 21:35:33 -0500 "The Bosse Family" <monga589@...>
            writes:
            >I thought the buckskinners were the heavy weapond section! All of our
            >guys
            >bugged out saturday around lunch. But I thought it was a great weekend
            >the
            >Canadians were some of the nicest guys I have met (even those who did
            >British impressions heh heh). We managed to see Chipawa, Lunys Lane,
            >Queenston Heights, Forts Eirie, George and Niagra. And I have been in
            >alot
            >worst weather than Port Dover.
            >
            >Dave Bosse
            >(Americas Friend)
            >
            >
            >
            >
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            >The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds
            >of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of
            >THOUSANDS of square miles...
            >
          • Susanne Draper
            Hi Richard, We d like to read more about this...could you provide the reference please? Thanks! -sue ... From: R. Feltoe To:
            Message 5 of 10 , Jun 29, 2000
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              Hi Richard,

              We'd like to read more about this...could you provide the reference please?

              Thanks!
              -sue
              -----Original Message-----
              From: R. Feltoe <feltoe@...>
              To: WarOf1812@egroups.com <WarOf1812@egroups.com>
              Date: June 29, 2000 8:02 PM
              Subject: [WarOf1812] Port Dover


              >Ron,
              >In answer to your question on the events at that time, I hope the following
              >segment might help. It follows a series of paragraphs talking about
              >Winfield Scott's work in creating the 1814 American Army at Buffalo
              >
              >"...On the other side of the Niagara River, General Drummond was also
              >attempting to improve the state of his forces in the face of the continued
              >reluctance of General Prevost to push forward either supplies or manpower
              >into Upper Canada as long as a large body of American troops remained
              >encamped south of Montreal. Eventually, however, the improving military
              >situation in Europe and the news that reinforcements were being sent to
              >North America, persuaded Prevost to release the 103rd Regiment and some
              >vitally needed supplies for use in Upper Canada. Nor was this a moment too
              >soon, as the improving weather gave rise to an increase in American raids
              >and incursions across the Western end of Upper Canada throughout the months
              >of March, April and May.
              >
              >In scenes reminiscent of the events of the previous December at Newark
              >(Niagara on the Lake), the communities at Patterson's Creek, Charlotteville
              >(Turkey Point), Port Talbot, Long Point, and Port Dover, all saw the
              >destruction of their public buildings, grain mills, distilleries and
              private
              >homes and barns at the hands of American troops and the hated 'Canadian
              >Volunteers'. These raiding parties moved relatively unopposed inland from
              >Detroit or used the American control of Lake Erie to cross the lake and
              >attack from that quarter. Even the crops in the fields and cattle were
              >deliberately destroyed in order to reduce the availability of the region to
              >support the British army in the field.
              >
              >These repeated incursions on his lines of communication and supply bases,
              so
              >alarmed General Riall that he requested permission of General Drummond to
              >withdraw most of his troops from their forward positions along the Niagara
              >River and concentrate them at Burlington, where they could be used to
              >counter any future American advance from the South, West, or East.
              >Determined to maintain the line of the Niagara and protect those
              inhabitants
              >still attempting to scratch out a living and grow the crops that could feed
              >his troops, however, General Drummond turned down this request. Instead he
              >ordered Riall to maintain and strengthen his positions as much as possible,
              >in the hopes of slowing down any possible American attack until
              >reinforcements could be concentrated from their scattered positions
              >elsewhere or brought up from York and Kingston.
              >
              >At the same time, General Drummond sought to take some of the pressure off
              >Riall's forces on the Niagara by planning yet another attack on Sackets
              >Harbor; with the aim of destroying the American fleet and crippling the
              Army
              >by eliminating the immense stockpiles of supplies maintained in the
              >warehouses surrounding the harbour..."
              >
              >Hope this assists,
              >Richard Feltoe
              >
              >
              >
              >
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              >The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
              square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
              square miles...
              >
              >
            • R. Feltoe
              Dear Susanne Sorry dear but I can t give you an official reference for the quote as it ain t been published yet. Actually its simply a snippet from my current
              Message 6 of 10 , Jun 30, 2000
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                Dear Susanne
                Sorry dear but I can't give you an official reference for the quote as
                it ain't been published yet. Actually its simply a snippet from my current
                work on the war that's scheduled for publication next year. The original
                documentation is well detailed in Cruikshank's 9 volume work, " Documentary
                History of the War of 1812 on the Niagara Frontier " published back in the
                early 1900's. Since its kind of hard to find, I got myself a complete
                microfiche copy and would be happy to try to make copies for you of the
                relevant pages if I can find a microfiche reader with a photocopy
                attachment.

                Regards Richard.
              • Fitzhugh MacCrae
                ... I was under thhe impression that thre were some serious errors in Cruikshank, such as his fantasy charge of british infantry that retook the hill at
                Message 7 of 10 , Jul 1, 2000
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                  --- "R. Feltoe" <feltoe@...> wrote:
                  > Dear Susanne
                  > Sorry dear but I can't give you an official
                  > reference for the quote as
                  > it ain't been published yet. Actually its simply a
                  > snippet from my current
                  > work on the war that's scheduled for publication
                  > next year. The original
                  > documentation is well detailed in Cruikshank's 9
                  > volume work, " Documentary
                  > History of the War of 1812 on the Niagara Frontier "
                  > published back in the
                  > early 1900's. Since its kind of hard to find, I got
                  > myself a complete
                  > microfiche copy and would be happy to try to make
                  > copies for you of the
                  > relevant pages if I can find a microfiche reader
                  > with a photocopy
                  > attachment.
                  >
                  > Regards Richard.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  I was under thhe impression that thre were some
                  serious errors in Cruikshank, such as his fantasy
                  charge of british infantry that retook the hill at
                  Lundy's lane with the bayonet. . .

                  FMaccrae

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                • R. Feltoe
                  Dear Fitzhugh, You are entirely correct in questioning the reference to Cruikshank as he certainly wrote some biased accounts (based upon the time period he
                  Message 8 of 10 , Jul 1, 2000
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                    Dear Fitzhugh,
                    You are entirely correct in questioning the reference to Cruikshank as he
                    certainly wrote some biased accounts (based upon the time period he wrote in
                    and his natural pride in Canada) of events during the war. But I'm afraid
                    the Documentary History is not one of them. It consists entirely of
                    transcriptions of Official Orders, Regimental rolls, Official and private
                    letters from almost everyone connected with the war, journals, newspaper
                    publications and a whole lot more. I have checked a large number of these
                    transcriptions against the original documents and apart from a few typos and
                    misinterpretations of poor handwriting in the original documents is a fairly
                    faithful and comprehensive record of the war from a multitude of sources. I
                    would be happy to bang out a few of the more interesting and otherwise
                    unpublished documents on this list if anyone wants to see them.

                    Regards Richard Feltoe
                  • Rob Taylor
                    Hi Richard: I would be interested in seeing them. Rob I just got back from viewing the reenactment at Fort York or at least the first part of it, traffic was
                    Message 9 of 10 , Jul 1, 2000
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                      Hi Richard:
                      I would be interested in seeing them.

                      Rob
                      I just got back from viewing the reenactment at Fort
                      York or at least the first part of it, traffic was
                      nuts, stuck for ages not moving. Missed the actual
                      landing of Americans at the beach couldn't get to it.


                      --- "R. Feltoe" <feltoe@...> wrote:
                      > Dear Fitzhugh,
                      > You are entirely correct in questioning the
                      > reference to Cruikshank as he
                      > certainly wrote some biased accounts (based upon the
                      > time period he wrote in
                      > and his natural pride in Canada) of events during
                      > the war. But I'm afraid
                      > the Documentary History is not one of them. It
                      > consists entirely of
                      > transcriptions of Official Orders, Regimental rolls,
                      > Official and private
                      > letters from almost everyone connected with the war,
                      > journals, newspaper
                      > publications and a whole lot more. I have checked a
                      > large number of these
                      > transcriptions against the original documents and
                      > apart from a few typos and
                      > misinterpretations of poor handwriting in the
                      > original documents is a fairly
                      > faithful and comprehensive record of the war from a
                      > multitude of sources. I
                      > would be happy to bang out a few of the more
                      > interesting and otherwise
                      > unpublished documents on this list if anyone wants
                      > to see them.
                      >
                      > Regards Richard Feltoe
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >


                      =====
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                    • Fitzhugh MacCrae
                      ... You would have been amused to hear my inhtroductory lecture on the War of 1812 at the local university; The War of 18112 was fought between England and
                      Message 10 of 10 , Jul 2, 2000
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                        --- "R. Feltoe" <feltoe@...> wrote:
                        > Dear Fitzhugh,
                        > You are entirely correct in questioning the
                        > reference to Cruikshank as he
                        > certainly wrote some biased accounts (based upon the
                        > time period he wrote in
                        > and his natural pride in Canada) of events during
                        > the war. But I'm afraid
                        > the Documentary History is not one of them. It
                        > consists entirely of
                        > transcriptions of Official Orders, Regimental rolls,
                        > Official and private
                        > letters from almost everyone connected with the war,
                        > journals, newspaper
                        > publications and a whole lot more. I have checked a
                        > large number of these
                        > transcriptions against the original documents and
                        > apart from a few typos and
                        > misinterpretations of poor handwriting in the
                        > original documents is a fairly
                        > faithful and comprehensive record of the war from a
                        > multitude of sources. I
                        > would be happy to bang out a few of the more
                        > interesting and otherwise
                        > unpublished documents on this list if anyone wants
                        > to see them.
                        >
                        > Regards Richard Feltoe
                        >

                        You would have been amused to hear my inhtroductory
                        lecture on the War of 1812 at the local university;

                        "The War of 18112 was fought between England and the
                        United States. The winner was Canada: the loser was
                        Spain.
                        Any questions?"



                        FR Maccrae

                        =====
                        Founder, Pagan Liberation Antique Twinkies Collectors Front and Marching Chorale

                        "Fluff Bunnies - The OTHER White Meat"

                        "Come back, Guy Faulkes - all's forgiven. We'll leave a light on in the Capitol basement for you. . . ."

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