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Re: Who won, etc.

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  • JESSE PUDWELL
    Thanks Richard!! By the way...CHEERS!!! and happy New Year old Friend!! I have all my literary sources sitting on the bookshelf next to my computer...ready for
    Message 1 of 2 , Feb 26, 1999
      Thanks Richard!!
      By the way...CHEERS!!! and happy New Year old Friend!!

      I have all my literary sources sitting on the bookshelf next to my
      computer...ready for action in defence of Lundys Lane....however, I
      don't think It'll be necessary.

      You see, I really don't think there was a clear-cut winner...but the
      evidence weighs more toward the Americans losing it and the evidence
      weighs weakly toward the Brits/Canadians winning it. So,...it's one of
      those battles that each should hold their own SILENT opinion about
      because it was such a bloodbath for both armies, it was hot, it was
      mostly dark, it was a beautiful day/night turned horrific!!!and the
      water that could have wet the lips of the dying and the exhausted
      literally "thundered" just a little ways away!!!

      However...you brought up one of only a few excellent quotations about
      the Battle that can be found in "the Diary" which clearly inflicts
      wounds upon the idea that the American Army won the Battle.

      Till next we meet on the fields of glory,...

      JESSE
      Sgt GLI




      om bounce-WarOf1812--1218-SGTPUDGLI Thu Feb 25 22:45:55 1999
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      >From: "R. Feltoe" <feltoe@...>
      >To: <warof1812@onelist.com>
      >Date: Fri, 26 Feb 1999 01:45:17 -0500
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      >Subject: [WarOf1812] Who won, etc.
      >
      >From: "R. Feltoe" <feltoe@...>
      >
      >Jessie.
      >Your fervor for the 'cause' of Lundys Lane does you credit me lad. But
      I
      >fear your zealotry will raise more than a little dust. We all have our
      >favourite armchair General hats on when we look back over the ages to
      assess
      >who did or did not win. I think it more advantageous to look at what
      the
      >people on the spot, at the time, have to say. Now lets get it straight,
      I do
      >not mean the official whitewashed reports sent in by the commanders of
      both
      >sides, but rather the side comments and views of the men on the front
      line.
      >Their attitudes give perhaps the clearest indication of what each side
      >thought the result of the battle was and who had control of the field.
      >
      >For example, (1) In Le Couteur (104th Foot) following your previous
      >reference to the use of dead artillery horses ( therefore directly at
      the
      >crest of the hill as is stated in the book) for a defense line, he
      continues
      >"I was on duty that night... there were three hundred dead on the
      Niagara
      >side of the hillock and about a hundred of ours, besides several
      hundred
      >wounded. ...Our mens heads and those of the Americans were within a
      few
      >yards of each other at this spot... the scene of the morning...we had
      to
      >wait on our slaughterhouse till 11" ( He and his men were obviously in
      >possession of that part of the field after the battle!)
      >Likewise,(2) Lt Henry Ruttan (5th coy IMUC) wrote in his unpublished
      memoir
      >"... Before sunrise on the morning of the {26} July... I had the
      >satisfaction of seeing our men mustering on the battlefield..."
      >(3) Lt Duncan Clark (7th coy IMUC) wrote in his journal "... The
      victory was
      >complete. The enemy had,in the majesty of his pride disappeared from
      Lundys
      >lane when the writer of this sketch looked at his watch, which told him
      by
      >the light of the moon it was 11 o'clock [lets remember folks that no
      >standard time zones existed yet and quoted times can vary by over an
      hour
      >between regimental accounts] ...The British troops now in possession of
      the
      >battlefield the remainder of the night and the whole of the next day
      engaged
      >in burying..."
      >(4) Testimony from the US Court of Enquiry into the conduct of General
      >Ripley (March 1815) stated that following the 3rd British assault to
      >recapture the guns the US 2nd Brigade remained on the hilltop for about
      >30-40 minutes, following which they were ordered to retire abandoning
      their
      >guns and many of their wounded, arriving back at Chippawa after
      midnight.
      >(5)Private John Castello (104th Rgt) "...we arrived [at the
      battlefield] at
      >half past 9 oclock in the evening. After the action was closed, the
      British
      >Army lay during the remainder of the night in Lundys Lane, about a
      quarter
      >mile [aprox. 450 yards] from the heights towards the river..." {i.e
      about
      >where the Lundys Lane Museum now sits RIGHT ON THE BATTLEFIELD}.
      >(6) Brevet Major Murill Marston (US 21st Infantry) wrote in March 1815
      that
      >while his detachment was stationed at the rear of the battlefield he
      was
      >ordered around 11pm by General Brown to wait with his force until the
      rest
      >of the retreating army had passed and then follow them back to camp.
      >
      >But by far and away the best evidence of what the result of Lundys Lane
      was
      >to the men of the US army AT THAT TIME comes from the direct statements
      of
      >Colonel H. Leavenworth (9th US Infantry) writing in Jan 1815. on that
      >officers opinion of receiving General Ripley's order to return to the
      hill
      >of Lundys Lane the morning of the 26th. "... from what I saw of our
      >forces...and from what I had seen of the enemys force the preceeding
      >evening, I did think it the most consumate folly to attempt to regain
      >possession of the field of battle and every officer with whom I
      conversed,
      >among whom were many of the first distinction, expressed their
      astonishment
      >at such an attempt and that every exertion was not made immediately to
      take
      >up the line of march for Fort Erie..."
      >
      >I may be biased in my own views on the battle (being British by birth,
      >Canadian by citizenship and reenacting a Canadian regiment) but it
      would
      >appear to me that the words "Folly to attempt to regain" and "every
      >exertion...to take up the line of march for Fort Erie" suggest that
      this was
      >not just an Army that had experienced a temporary halt in its single
      goal of
      >sweeping the British and Canadian troops from the Niagara. Nor does it
      leave
      >me feeling that they wanted to go on the defensive from their secure
      >encampment. Rather that this was an Army that KNEW it was beaten in
      this
      >battle and wanted to put as much distance between themselves and the
      enemy
      >as possible. Evidenced by their subsequent abandonment of vast amounts
      of
      >supplies and tentage,( which were put to very good use by the supply-
      >starved British over the following weeks) and their desperate
      activities in
      >throwing up defensive works at Fort Erie before the British arrived.
      >
      >Hope this clears the air
      > regards Richard Feltoe
      >
      >
      >
      >
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      >The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds
      of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of
      THOUSANDS of square miles...
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