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RE: 1812 Your "CHRYSTLER'S FARM" medal

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  • Ray Hobbs
    Fascinating and informative, PeterThanks for this summary.It is amazing how many errors you list - just goes to show how delicately one must deal with
    Message 1 of 7 , Jul 15, 2013
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      Fascinating and informative, PeterThanks for this summary.It is amazing how many errors you list - just goes to show how delicately one must deal with "primary" sources. We have all seen the errors.How did this sudden rush to award medals to individual soldiers in the British army come about?The Romans usually gave insignia and titles to legions - the term "Fides" was granted to legions who had survived particularly rough campaigns during the time of the empire. I recall [with no notes at hand] that Caracalla granted the title to his British-based legions for not mutinying!!!
      I sniff an imperial motivation with the British army in Victorian times. Many such medals bore an image of Britannia.Thanks againRay
      To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
      From: petemonahan@...
      Date: Mon, 15 Jul 2013 18:42:37 +0000
      Subject: 1812 Your "CHRYSTLER'S FARM" medal


























      Well done all! The medals were well earned and, as someone who saw the Sunday battle from the spectators' side, you give great battle!



      IN another life I collected medals and thought some people might be interested in some background on the medals.



      The Military General Service Medal [MGS] was authorized in 1847 and struck in 1848 - hence Queen Victoria's head - and was meant to commemorate battles which took place between 1793 and 1814. Those included many Peninsular actions, but also Egypt, Martinique, "FORT DETROIT", "CHATEAUGUAY" and "CHRYSTLER'S FARM". Yes, that is the 'correct' spelling, as originally issued, not a mistake by a Chines engraver with a poor command of English spelling!



      The MGS was only awarded to those who both qualified for one or more bars AND applied for it. Given the fact that some battles were fought 60 years before the medal was authorized, the numbers issued are often far fewer than the soldiers present at a given action. There are 29 official bars to the MGS and a number of unoffical, often self-awarded bars. Unofficial bars exist for Stoney Creek, Fort George and Queenston. There are examples of the MGS with 14 & 15 bars for the Peninsular campaigns and a single award to a member of the "Canadian Militia" with the three bars for Fort Detroit,Chateauguay and Chrysler's Farm.



      The Naval General Service Medal, also issued in 1848, commemorated actions between 1793 and 1840 and had 231 bars. However, as some of these marked single ship and small boat actions, there were no claimants at all for some bars and a number were awarded to single claimants, usually officers, who read the London Gazette, heard of the medal and applied. Lieutenant Andrew Bulger, Royal Newfoundland Regiment, was the sole recipient of the NGS bar "3rd and 6th September,1814' for his part in the capture of the American schooners Tigress and Scorpion.



      Here are the numbers of MGS bar "CHRYSTLER'S FARM" as listed in Major L.L. Gordon's book "British Battles and Medals" [4th edition, 1971]. Remember that these represent bars only to claimants, not the number of men who fought.



      "25th Regt" - 1 [a transcription error for the 27th Regt]

      49th Regt - 61

      "88th Reg't" - 80 [Clearly, this is in error for the 89th]

      Chaplains - 1

      Medical Staff -1

      Newfoundland Regt - none recorded

      "Canadian Militia" - 76

      Royal Artillery - 6

      [Gordon lists them as John Boyle, Thomas Gosling, Dennis Martin,

      Samuel Nuttal, Joseph Sterling and Joseph Wells, presumably all

      with the rank of Gunner.]



















      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Art Neilands
      Good stuff! Archives Canada has a number of lists of those entitled to / applied/ received a medal  in our case for 1812-15 and a list of the number
      Message 2 of 7 , Jul 15, 2013
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        Good stuff! Archives Canada has a number of lists of those entitled to / applied/ received a medal  in our case for 1812-15 and a list of the number undelivered,,,,, in no particular order you can find   " Chateauguay Medal List, Chryslers Farm, Upper Canada Militia 1812-1815, Militia Officers entitled to medals Capture of Detroit, Regulations for Distribution, Militia Officers Lower Canada, and a few other interesting refer. to Medals. I beleive the list for medals presented to 1st Nations can be found in the RG 10 files although I have some on hand, and if I recall, 1st Nations Veterans applied through their Indian Agent(?) As well, I'm almost positive the Veterans name, military info was engraved along the outside edge of the medal.
         
        For anyone that may be interested in looking at a list can contact me and I'd be happy to help them out.


        ________________________________
        From: petemonahan <petemonahan@...>
        To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Monday, July 15, 2013 2:42:37 PM
        Subject: 1812 Your "CHRYSTLER'S FARM" medal
         
         





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • petemonahan
        Ray Thank you for the kind words. Yes, though Gordon was for years THE source on British medals, both his book and the original rolls are rife with errors,
        Message 3 of 7 , Jul 15, 2013
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          Ray

          Thank you for the kind words. Yes, though Gordon was for years THE source on British medals, both his book and the original rolls are rife with errors, especially when he refers to such second class soldiers as the Indian Army and the various colonial corps of the empire. And the fact that the rolls for the MGS simply lump all the Canadian local units together as "Canadian Militia" suggests a similar attitude among the powers that were at the time the awards were made.

          Prior to the Napoleonic wars there were virtually no medals awarded by the British government, and those which were often went only to officers of some rank, though occasionally individual commanders paid themselves for awards to their troops. There were, however, private groups and individuals who paid for and presented medals, most notable a Scot named Davidson who gave medals to all ranks on board Lord Nelson's fleets at The Nile and Trafalgar. I also believe that it is largely after Waterloo, for which the government DID strike a medal for all ranks, that the British public began its long love affair with 'our gallant soldiers and sailors'. So perhaps the government was embarrassed into official recognition of the men who won the Empire. Or perhaps, as you say, it was a reflection of Whitehall's expanding imperial urges. There's probably a PHd thesis in that for someone!

          Peter
        • Andre Reed
          Peter Thanks for a GREAT job setting up the camp and putting up with us. Andre ________________________________ From: petemonahan
          Message 4 of 7 , Jul 16, 2013
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            Peter Thanks for a GREAT job setting up the camp and putting up with us.
            Andre




            ________________________________
            From: petemonahan <petemonahan@...>
            To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Monday, July 15, 2013 2:42:37 PM
            Subject: 1812 Your "CHRYSTLER'S FARM" medal



             
            Well done all! The medals were well earned and, as someone who saw the Sunday battle from the spectators' side, you give great battle!

            IN another life I collected medals and thought some people might be interested in some background on the medals.

            The Military General Service Medal [MGS] was authorized in 1847 and struck in 1848 - hence Queen Victoria's head - and was meant to commemorate battles which took place between 1793 and 1814. Those included many Peninsular actions, but also Egypt, Martinique, "FORT DETROIT", "CHATEAUGUAY" and "CHRYSTLER'S FARM". Yes, that is the 'correct' spelling, as originally issued, not a mistake by a Chines engraver with a poor command of English spelling!

            The MGS was only awarded to those who both qualified for one or more bars AND applied for it. Given the fact that some battles were fought 60 years before the medal was authorized, the numbers issued are often far fewer than the soldiers present at a given action. There are 29 official bars to the MGS and a number of unoffical, often self-awarded bars. Unofficial bars exist for Stoney Creek, Fort George and Queenston. There are examples of the MGS with 14 & 15 bars for the Peninsular campaigns and a single award to a member of the "Canadian Militia" with the three bars for Fort Detroit,Chateauguay and Chrysler's Farm.

            The Naval General Service Medal, also issued in 1848, commemorated actions between 1793 and 1840 and had 231 bars. However, as some of these marked single ship and small boat actions, there were no claimants at all for some bars and a number were awarded to single claimants, usually officers, who read the London Gazette, heard of the medal and applied. Lieutenant Andrew Bulger, Royal Newfoundland Regiment, was the sole recipient of the NGS bar "3rd and 6th September,1814' for his part in the capture of the American schooners Tigress and Scorpion.

            Here are the numbers of MGS bar "CHRYSTLER'S FARM" as listed in Major L.L. Gordon's book "British Battles and Medals" [4th edition, 1971]. Remember that these represent bars only to claimants, not the number of men who fought.

            "25th Regt" - 1 [a transcription error for the 27th Regt]
            49th Regt - 61
            "88th Reg't" - 80 [Clearly, this is in error for the 89th]
            Chaplains - 1
            Medical Staff -1
            Newfoundland Regt - none recorded
            "Canadian Militia" - 76
            Royal Artillery - 6
            [Gordon lists them as John Boyle, Thomas Gosling, Dennis Martin,
            Samuel Nuttal, Joseph Sterling and Joseph Wells, presumably all
            with the rank of Gunner.]




            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • petemonahan
            Thanks, Andre. Art You re correct that the MGS medals had the recipient s name, rank and unit on the rim, though at times the unit names can be confusing or,
            Message 5 of 7 , Jul 16, 2013
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              Thanks, Andre.

              Art

              You're correct that the MGS medals had the recipient's name, rank and unit on the rim, though at times the unit names can be confusing or, in the case of 'Canadian Militia', less than completely helpful.
            • petemonahan
              Art If you could send me a PM at petemonahan@sympatico.ca, I d appreciate it. Thanks. Peter
              Message 6 of 7 , Jul 16, 2013
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                Art

                If you could send me a PM at petemonahan@..., I'd appreciate it. Thanks.

                Peter
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