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Re: Reminder - Make plans to attend the 200th Anniversary Massacre at Fort Mims

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  • tom
    How much time do you have? There is no short answer.
    Message 1 of 11 , Apr 22 10:20 AM
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      How much time do you have? There is no short answer.

      --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Dickerson" <mdickerson1@...> wrote:
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      > What provoked the Red Stick to attack Fort Mims? Wouldn’t that be the spark?
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      > Mark Dickerson
    • westhouse03
      The Battle of Burnt Corn Creek, 27 July, 1813 is what sparked the attack on Fort Mims, although the fire was smoldering for some time as American settlers were
      Message 2 of 11 , Apr 22 5:44 PM
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        The Battle of Burnt Corn Creek, 27 July, 1813 is what sparked the attack on Fort Mims, although the fire was smoldering for some time as American settlers were moving through Creek territory along the 'Federal Road'.


        The Battle of Burnt Corn, 27 July 1813, a smaller conflict within the War of 1812, is often considered to be the opening battle of the war between the Creek Indians and the United States.

        The Creek nation occupied a huge swath of land in the territory of Mississippi, between Georgia and the newly created state of Louisiana in what is now the state of Alabama. With Georgia pressing for expansion westward and the constant push of settlers into the area, tensions were on the rise and conditions were ripe for a major conflict. A visit by Shawnee warrior Tecumseh in the fall of 1811, urging a unified Indian nation and a casting aside of the white man's ways, also led to confrontation that divided the Creek nation into two factions, friendly Creeks and those who opposed the white man's ways, the Red Sticks.

        Mixed-blood chief Peter McQueen led some 300 Red Stick Creeks to Pensacola to acquire arms and ammunition from the Spanish. News of the Red Stick expedition soon spread and a force of about 180 men of the Mississippi Territorial militia was organized under the command of Colonel James Caller. Travelling south toward Pensacola, Caller's men came upon a small portion of McQueen's warriors in a camp along Burnt Corn Creek on 27 July. McQueen's men seemed to be few and were, at the time, occupied with cooking and other activities. Without waiting to further analyze the situation, Caller's men launched a spirited attack that sent the Creeks fleeing toward the creek. After a brief struggle, Caller's men were called back from the pursuit. In the process of going through and redistributing the captured goods, the inattentive Americans were attacked by the remainder of the Creek warriors, numbering about one hundred, who had been hidden some distance away. A fierce battle erupted and, engaged by overwhelming numbers, the Americans were forced to retreat, having lost two killed and fifteen wounded. The Creeks lost two killed and five wounded. The outcome was a victory for the Red Stick Creeks which put the whole area in a state of alarm.

        Following the attack at Burnt Corn Creek, Creek warriors were ripe for revenge and soon met to plan retaliation. Settlers throughout the area had begun to gather at forts for protection as news of native unrest and the attack at Burnt Corn spread. About 500 men, women and children, including many who had been involved in the Battle of Burnt Corn, gathered at Fort Mims, about fifty miles northeast of Mobile. The fort was a crude stockade that had been erected around the house of Samuel Mims. The interior area also contained several other buildings and an unfinished blockhouse. In command was Major Daniel Beasley of the First Regiment of Mississippi Infantry.


        Dave Westhouse



        --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Dickerson" <mdickerson1@...> wrote:
        What provoked the Red Stick to attack Fort Mims? Wouldn't that be the spark?


        Mark Dickerson


        Original message:



        The massacre at Fort Mims was the spark that ignited the Red Stick War.
        In a surprise attack on the outpost fort, more than 1000 Red Stick
        Warriors surprised approximately 550 unsuspecting settlers and militia.
      • peter monahan
        I m surprised that the event Dave describes was referred to as the Battle of Burnt Corn Creek. I thought they were only Battles if the white guys won and
        Message 3 of 11 , Apr 23 6:12 AM
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          I'm surprised that the event Dave describes was referred to as the Battle of Burnt Corn Creek. I thought they were only 'Battles' if the white guys won and 'Massacres' if the Natives won. Sort of like the Fort Mims 'Massacre'. And yes, I do know that civilian settlers, probably including women and children, were killed at Mims. It's called 'total war' and, again, while they practiced it, the Natives weren't the only ones or even always the first ones to employ that style of warfare. To quote a proverb usually attributed to General Philip Sheridan, a noted Indian fighter, 'The only good Indian is a dead Indian.' Also, 'Nits breed lice.' Both used on many occasions to justify attacks on Native women, children and the aged. Perhaps if US forces, regular and local militia, applied the same rules of warfare to the 'Indians' as they did to other whites, the Red Sticks would have been more discriminating too in their choice of targets. Just sayin'!

          Peter Monahan

          petemonahan@...
          705-435-0953 home / 705-890-9953 cell



          To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
          From: westhouse@...
          Date: Tue, 23 Apr 2013 00:44:21 +0000
          Subject: Re: 1812 Reminder - Make plans to attend the 200th Anniversary Massacre at Fort Mims




























          The Battle of Burnt Corn Creek, 27 July, 1813 is what sparked the attack on Fort Mims, although the fire was smoldering for some time as American settlers were moving through Creek territory along the 'Federal Road'.



          The Battle of Burnt Corn, 27 July 1813, a smaller conflict within the War of 1812, is often considered to be the opening battle of the war between the Creek Indians and the United States.



          The Creek nation occupied a huge swath of land in the territory of Mississippi, between Georgia and the newly created state of Louisiana in what is now the state of Alabama. With Georgia pressing for expansion westward and the constant push of settlers into the area, tensions were on the rise and conditions were ripe for a major conflict. A visit by Shawnee warrior Tecumseh in the fall of 1811, urging a unified Indian nation and a casting aside of the white man's ways, also led to confrontation that divided the Creek nation into two factions, friendly Creeks and those who opposed the white man's ways, the Red Sticks.



          Mixed-blood chief Peter McQueen led some 300 Red Stick Creeks to Pensacola to acquire arms and ammunition from the Spanish. News of the Red Stick expedition soon spread and a force of about 180 men of the Mississippi Territorial militia was organized under the command of Colonel James Caller. Travelling south toward Pensacola, Caller's men came upon a small portion of McQueen's warriors in a camp along Burnt Corn Creek on 27 July. McQueen's men seemed to be few and were, at the time, occupied with cooking and other activities. Without waiting to further analyze the situation, Caller's men launched a spirited attack that sent the Creeks fleeing toward the creek. After a brief struggle, Caller's men were called back from the pursuit. In the process of going through and redistributing the captured goods, the inattentive Americans were attacked by the remainder of the Creek warriors, numbering about one hundred, who had been hidden some distance away. A fierce battle erupted and, engaged by overwhelming numbers, the Americans were forced to retreat, having lost two killed and fifteen wounded. The Creeks lost two killed and five wounded. The outcome was a victory for the Red Stick Creeks which put the whole area in a state of alarm.



          Following the attack at Burnt Corn Creek, Creek warriors were ripe for revenge and soon met to plan retaliation. Settlers throughout the area had begun to gather at forts for protection as news of native unrest and the attack at Burnt Corn spread. About 500 men, women and children, including many who had been involved in the Battle of Burnt Corn, gathered at Fort Mims, about fifty miles northeast of Mobile. The fort was a crude stockade that had been erected around the house of Samuel Mims. The interior area also contained several other buildings and an unfinished blockhouse. In command was Major Daniel Beasley of the First Regiment of Mississippi Infantry.



          Dave Westhouse



          --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Dickerson" <mdickerson1@...> wrote:

          What provoked the Red Stick to attack Fort Mims? Wouldn't that be the spark?



          Mark Dickerson



          Original message:



          The massacre at Fort Mims was the spark that ignited the Red Stick War.

          In a surprise attack on the outpost fort, more than 1000 Red Stick

          Warriors surprised approximately 550 unsuspecting settlers and militia.


















          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Thomas Robinson
          As a frequent lecturer at the annual Fort Mims event, I would agree with all of what Mr. Westhouse offers; however, and reading the exchange of letters between
          Message 4 of 11 , Apr 23 6:40 AM
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            As a frequent lecturer at the annual Fort Mims event, I would agree with all of what Mr. Westhouse offers; however, and reading the exchange of letters between Benjamin Hawkins and the principle players among the Creeks and settlers, the situation is much more complicated. US economic policy is the driving force to move the native population to a cash economy and to establish property ownership and animal husbandry as a means of broadening the power of the Nation. Rather than going into a subject that may not be of interest to the entire list, let me suggest, to make a search in the American State Papers, http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/amlaw/lwsp.html
            a search of Panton, Leslie and company, Benjamin Hawkins, Big Warrior, High Head Jim, William Augustus Bowles, John or James Innerarity, John Forbes.

            I am happy to discuss off list at t_a_robinson@...

            Tom
          • Thomas Robinson
            Sadly, Fort Mims was a family feud that spilled over into front-line US politics. Many of the inhabitants that had sought shelter inside the fort were
            Message 5 of 11 , Apr 23 7:00 AM
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              Sadly, Fort Mims was a family feud that spilled over into front-line US politics. Many of the inhabitants that had sought shelter inside the fort were half-blood Muskogee, along with White and European settlers. Outside, the Red Stick faction consisted of mixed-blood kinfolk mulattoes and full-blood Creek. There are stories that William Weatherford (Red Eagle) was disgusted by that sight of family-on-family violence and tried to stop the attack. In one well documented instance, a woman, Vicey McGirth and her children were saved from the slaughter by a Red Stick warrior, whom she had taken in and raised as her own child when he was orphaned as a child. He placed himself in front of the woman and children, telling other warriors that he was taking them as slaves. The young warrior spirited Mrs. McGirth and the children to Pensacola and later to his farmstead. Afterward, he told his "White mother" that he would not survive the conflict and was killed at Horseshoe Bend.
            • Chris Kimball
              An excellent book on the Creek War that came out last year and was edited by Kathryn E. Holland-Braund is, Tohopeka, Rethinking the Creek War & the War of
              Message 6 of 11 , Apr 24 4:50 AM
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                An excellent book on the Creek War that came out last year and was edited by Kathryn E. Holland-Braund is, "Tohopeka, Rethinking the Creek War & the War of 1812," from The University of Alabama Press.

                The book is mainly the collection of papers given at the Creek War Symposium held in 2009 at Auburn University in Alabama.

                It is a fresh look at reexamining the issues of the Creek War, such as Burn Corn, Tecumseh's influence, and other things about the war that have long been misunderstood. I would highly recommend it for anyone interested in the Creek War and the causes & issues surrounding it. I found the chapter on Burnt Corn particularly enlightening.

                Chris Kimball


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