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  • gord
    Hi Group have a question about the availability of muskets in upper Canada in 1812. what was the most common? what would be the oldest/model used? what would
    Message 1 of 10 , Feb 2, 2012
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      Hi Group

      have a question about the availability of muskets in upper Canada in 1812. what was the most common?
      what would be the oldest/model used?
      what would the average militia man have a.k.a farmer/local?
      did the models change over the war or did they keep their grandfathers old musket from the 1728's through out the war?

      thank you for your time

      Cheers
      Gordy

      2nd Lincoln militia
    • royalscotstailor
      As far as I know, the India or 3rd Pattern Brown Bess was pretty much standard issue to British Regulars by the start of the war. I imagine some units and
      Message 2 of 10 , Feb 2, 2012
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        As far as I know, the "India" or 3rd Pattern Brown Bess was pretty much standard issue to British Regulars by the start of the war. I imagine some units and militia would have the 2nd Pattern Besses if they had not been re-equipped. Farmers would have had various muskets , shotguns and fowling-pieces... a well-cared-for weapon from 1728 might have remained in a family but the bore would be pretty eroded after 70 years if it was fired regularly, I think.

        Kevin

        --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "gord" <em.gord@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > what would be the oldest/model used?
        > what would the average militia man have a.k.a farmer/local?
        > did the models change over the war or did they keep their grandfathers old musket from the 1728's through out the war?
        >
        >
      • Harry
        Gordy, A very good source to find info on types and numbers of arms issued is SMALL ARMS OF THE BRITISH FORCES IN AMERICA 1664-1815 by DeWitt Bailey. Chapter
        Message 3 of 10 , Feb 3, 2012
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          Gordy,
          A very good source to find info on types and numbers of arms issued is SMALL ARMS OF THE BRITISH FORCES IN AMERICA 1664-1815 by DeWitt Bailey. Chapter 20 covers the 1812 period.

          There were just about 96,000 of the 1728 Pattern Musket produced (see THE BROWN BESS by Goldstein and Mowbray)so it is unlikely any of this pattern would be in the hands of militia. It is more likely the '42, '56 or 69 Pattern which were produced in far larger numbers.

          Regards,
          Harry
          1st RS, 3d Coy

          --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "gord" <em.gord@...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi Group
          >
          > have a question about the availability of muskets in upper Canada in 1812. what was the most common?
          > what would be the oldest/model used?
          > what would the average militia man have a.k.a farmer/local?
          > did the models change over the war or did they keep their grandfathers old musket from the 1728's through out the war?
          >
          > thank you for your time
          >
          > Cheers
          > Gordy
          >
          > 2nd Lincoln militia
          >
        • Ray Hobbs
          This is from memory. I have the documentary backing in my files.In the Militia Act, promulgated in March 1808, it was stipulated that the militiamen would
          Message 4 of 10 , Feb 3, 2012
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            This is from memory. I have the documentary backing in my files.In the Militia Act, promulgated in March 1808, it was stipulated that the militiamen would bring their own arms to the regular musters (NB War had not yet begun). They also had to bring three cartridges.In March 1811 the Act was amended to include the formation of Flank Companies, and to adjust the size of companies from 100 to 50. No changes were made to the section on arms.I also have a record of arms distributed to the 1st Lincoln Militia in 1812. They were a mixture of British, American and French, probably captured at Detroit. Balls were also issued of various sizes. Tat was really no problem because the lead could be melted down and resized.To complete the picture one would need to look at the records of the Inspector General of Militia at the Archives in Ottawa, and any subsequent General Orders that were issued during the war.Locally I have two friends who have muskets from relatives who were members of the 2nd York. Both have been converted to cap and ball muskets - so they had a long life. One is a Charleville, the other is a farmer's fowler.At Chambly a store of arms was documented at the beginning of the war, probably designated for the militia. It was in sorry shape - probably a left over from the 1770s and 1780s. I.e. Short Pattern Bess.Hope this helps.Yrs etc.Ray HobbsHon Col. 41st Regt.
          • Kevin Windsor
            At the Niagara Falls History Museum there is a musket that is attributed to an Officer of the Flank Coy of the 2nd Lincoln Militia (James Thompson). It is an
            Message 5 of 10 , Feb 3, 2012
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              At the Niagara Falls History Museum there is a musket that is attributed to
              an Officer of the Flank Coy of the 2nd Lincoln Militia (James Thompson). It
              is an India Pattern.



              Kevin

              RNR

              ___



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Mark Dickerson
              This is according to Rene Chartrand A Scarlet Coat , starting page 159: For the militia of Upper Canada in 1811 there were 2529 English muskets and 2320
              Message 6 of 10 , Feb 3, 2012
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                This is according to Rene Chartrand "A Scarlet Coat", starting page 159:



                For the militia of Upper Canada in 1811 there were 2529 English muskets and
                2320 French muskets which could be issued to militia units or provincial
                units. In Upper and Lower Canada there were 10 286 weapons for 71 000 men.
                The BO sent 10 000 arms in August 1812. Nova Scotia had 10 000 arms, mostly
                Short land pattern, of which Prevost sent half of these to Quebec. In the
                spring of 1813 Prevost received at Quebec another 10 000 muskets and 400
                pistols from England.



                The "French" muskets were bought in 1797 from American dealers. Between
                1804 and 1815 there were 1, 603, 711 India Pattern muskets manufactured.
                Chartrand also states that the embodied and sedentary militia initially most
                likely used the Short Land pattern during the war.



                "By the summer of 1813 there were enough firearms in Canada and this was no
                longer considered a pressing problem by the authorities." (Page 161)



                Does any of that help?



                Mark Dickerson









                From: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                Of gord
                Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2012 7:17 PM
                To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: 1812 newbee





                Hi Group

                have a question about the availability of muskets in upper Canada in 1812.
                what was the most common?
                what would be the oldest/model used?
                what would the average militia man have a.k.a farmer/local?
                did the models change over the war or did they keep their grandfathers old
                musket from the 1728's through out the war?

                thank you for your time

                Cheers
                Gordy

                2nd Lincoln militia





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • gord
                Thank you for the information here is a theory that I have please correct if wrong. the muskets that probably every farmer/citizen would have, were taken great
                Message 7 of 10 , Feb 3, 2012
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                  Thank you for the information

                  here is a theory that I have please correct if wrong. the muskets that probably every farmer/citizen would have, were taken great care of probably better than any other tool that they had just for survival purposes. with that being said it would be quit possible for older muskets showing up during the 1812 war with the militia units? i am also guessing that these older muskets would have been traded up for newer models just like automobiles today as soon as availible? or would they be able to keep old trustworthy throughout the war?

                  Cheers
                  Gordy
                  2nd lincoln militia
                  in seek of knowledge
                • James Yaworsky
                  ... After August 16, 1812, there were a few thousand more muskets available, courtesy of General Hull... weapons both taken from his army, and from the
                  Message 8 of 10 , Feb 3, 2012
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                    --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Dickerson" <mdickerson1@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > This is according to Rene Chartrand "A Scarlet Coat", starting page 159:

                    > For the militia of Upper Canada in 1811 there were 2529 English muskets and [snip]

                    After August 16, 1812, there were a few thousand more muskets available, courtesy of General Hull... weapons both taken from his army, and from the extensive stores in Detroit. Presumably these were all "French" American Charleville/Harpers Ferry weapons.

                    Jim Yaworsky
                    41st
                  • Mark Dickerson
                    I assume that most of the muskets that were kept by the government in Upper Canada were stored at the various garrisons in the region such as Ft Malden, Pt.
                    Message 9 of 10 , Feb 3, 2012
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                      I assume that most of the muskets that were kept by the government in Upper
                      Canada were stored at the various garrisons in the region such as Ft Malden,
                      Pt. Dover, Burlington, York, etc. They would be given to the militia as
                      they were called up for their period of duty. Then they were returned to
                      stores again as soon as the militia 30 (60, 90) days were done. If a
                      militiaman had his own weapon, then that's what he used. I am not sure if
                      weapons would have been 'traded in' for new ones. The last thing the
                      government would want it a lot of weapons floating about in the public.



                      Mark Dickerson






                      Subject: Re: 1812 arming the militia





                      Thank you for the information

                      here is a theory that I have please correct if wrong. the muskets that
                      probably every farmer/citizen would have, were taken great care of probably
                      better than any other tool that they had just for survival purposes. with
                      that being said it would be quit possible for older muskets showing up
                      during the 1812 war with the militia units? i am also guessing that these
                      older muskets would have been traded up for newer models just like
                      automobiles today as soon as availible? or would they be able to keep old
                      trust worthy throughout the war?

                      Cheers
                      Gordy
                      2nd lincoln militia
                      in seek of knowledge





                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Ray Hobbs
                      Burlington Heights had two magazines built, but that was later in the war. At the earliest in the Spring of 1814.The de Bruyeres map which so many historians
                      Message 10 of 10 , Feb 3, 2012
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                        Burlington Heights had two magazines built, but that was later in the war. At the earliest in the Spring of 1814.The de Bruyeres map which so many historians and writers cite was drawn up in the Fall of 1813, and was a proposal. It sites the two maganzines, yet to be built.Reading the documents regarding the site from October to December 1813, than into the early months of 1814 very little building was accomplished.
                        Ray
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