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USF Constitution

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  • Victor Suthren
    In 1992 I had the pleasure to sail into Boston harbour as crew in the Canadian square-topsail schooner Pacific Swift , on a passage from Baltimore to Halifax.
    Message 1 of 22 , Mar 30, 2011
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      In 1992 I had the pleasure to sail into Boston harbour as crew in the
      Canadian square-topsail schooner 'Pacific Swift', on a passage from
      Baltimore to Halifax. We arrived at 'Constitution's' pier just as morning
      Colors took place, and dipped our Canadian ensign to the grand old lady. Her
      crew could not have been finer hosts for tours, and it was a honor to go
      below in such a storied ship of such importance to the USN. When we sailed
      for Halifax we dipped ensign again and even fired a salute to her---with a
      10 gauge blank---but felt a much deeper sense of respect for her and her
      huge, handsome ensign than our little gun displayed. A visit to her is
      unforgettable, and should be a goal of every 1812 re-enactor, of whatever
      national loyalty.



      Vic Suthren

      Canada



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • annbwass@aol.com
      I had the honor to be part of the Fort McHenry contingent to the Charlestown Navy Yard in 2000. We had the extreme privilege of a private tour of the ship,
      Message 2 of 22 , Mar 30, 2011
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        I had the honor to be part of the Fort McHenry contingent to the
        Charlestown Navy Yard in 2000. We had the extreme privilege of a private tour of
        the ship, as well as being on the USS J F Kennedy for the tall ship sail-by
        (or whatever that is technically called.) We also did living history
        interpretation at the Navy Yard while we there. It was definitely a
        once-in-a-lifetime experience, all in all. Don't know that I will ever get to ride the
        flight deck elevator on a carrier again, or see alcohol served on a US
        Navy ship!

        Ann Wass


        In a message dated 3/30/2011 6:07:03 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
        suthren@... writes:




        In 1992 I had the pleasure to sail into Boston harbour as crew in the
        Canadian square-topsail schooner 'Pacific Swift', on a passage from
        Baltimore to Halifax. We arrived at 'Constitution's' pier just as morning
        Colors took place, and dipped our Canadian ensign to the grand old lady.
        Her
        crew could not have been finer hosts for tours, and it was a honor to go
        below in such a storied ship of such importance to the USN. When we sailed
        for Halifax we dipped ensign again and even fired a salute to her---with a
        10 gauge blank---but felt a much deeper sense of respect for her and her
        huge, handsome ensign than our little gun displayed. A visit to her is
        unforgettable, and should be a goal of every 1812 re-enactor, of whatever
        national loyalty.

        Vic Suthren

        Canada

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Robert White
        Please come again so that I can try to show you the same courtesy and comraderie I received when I attended one of your early School of the Sailor. Be prepared
        Message 3 of 22 , Mar 30, 2011
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          Please come again so that I can try to show you the same courtesy and comraderie
          I received when I attended one of your early School of the Sailor. Be prepared
          to hoist the main brace and Pussers it shall be. Bob White, 1812 Marine Guard,
          USF Constitution



          ________________________________
          From: Victor Suthren <suthren@...>
          To: Warof1812@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Wed, March 30, 2011 6:06:53 PM
          Subject: 1812 USF Constitution


          In 1992 I had the pleasure to sail into Boston harbour as crew in the
          Canadian square-topsail schooner 'Pacific Swift', on a passage from
          Baltimore to Halifax. We arrived at 'Constitution's' pier just as morning
          Colors took place, and dipped our Canadian ensign to the grand old lady. Her
          crew could not have been finer hosts for tours, and it was a honor to go
          below in such a storied ship of such importance to the USN. When we sailed
          for Halifax we dipped ensign again and even fired a salute to her---with a
          10 gauge blank---but felt a much deeper sense of respect for her and her
          huge, handsome ensign than our little gun displayed. A visit to her is
          unforgettable, and should be a goal of every 1812 re-enactor, of whatever
          national loyalty.

          Vic Suthren

          Canada

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Terry
          There was mention in this discussion line of the cost in today s money how much it would cost to build a frigate of the age of sail well there s being built
          Message 4 of 22 , Mar 30, 2011
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            There was mention in this discussion line of the cost in today's money how much it would cost to build a frigate of the age of sail well there's being built right now in France.

            Photos of which are here:

            http://www.fotopedia.com/albums/MjUdkQg3H9A/entries/XBlT3U6-daw

            and the official site of the build is here:

            http://www.hermione.com/en/home/

            Regards,


            Terry
          • tom4141fournier
            What a cool project and wonderful photos, thank you for sharing! Tom
            Message 5 of 22 , Mar 31, 2011
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              What a cool project and wonderful photos, thank you for sharing!

              Tom

              --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Terry" <tlubka@...> wrote:
              >
              > There was mention in this discussion line of the cost in today's money how much it would cost to build a frigate of the age of sail well there's being built right now in France.
              >
              > Photos of which are here:
              >
              > http://www.fotopedia.com/albums/MjUdkQg3H9A/entries/XBlT3U6-daw
              >
              > and the official site of the build is here:
              >
              > http://www.hermione.com/en/home/
              >
              > Regards,
              >
              >
              > Terry
              >
            • Tim Pickles
              I recall some years ago Mark Dennis told me that during renovations to the dockyard buildings at Chatham most of the bits (bar the planking) for a 4th rate
              Message 6 of 22 , Mar 31, 2011
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                I recall some years ago Mark Dennis told me that during renovations to the dockyard buildings at Chatham most of the bits (bar the planking) for a 4th rate hull were found under the floor of the room where the the cables were originally made. I have ever heard what became of it but I understand there was actually discussion as to wether it should be preserved as is or built, however before anything was done I understand the authorities wanted to find out why it was put where it was and why it was never built.


                Aye,


                Tim





                -----Original Message-----
                From: tom4141fournier <tom4141fournier@...>
                To: WarOf1812 <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Thu, Mar 31, 2011 1:41 am
                Subject: 1812 Re: Hermione





                What a cool project and wonderful photos, thank you for sharing!

                Tom

                --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Terry" <tlubka@...> wrote:
                >
                > There was mention in this discussion line of the cost in today's money how much it would cost to build a frigate of the age of sail well there's being built right now in France.
                >
                > Photos of which are here:
                >
                > http://www.fotopedia.com/albums/MjUdkQg3H9A/entries/XBlT3U6-daw
                >
                > and the official site of the build is here:
                >
                > http://www.hermione.com/en/home/
                >
                > Regards,
                >
                >
                > Terry
                >









                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • whittakermp
                Roger that Vic. She s grand. I have an official certificate from the time a few years ago when the United Train of Artillery was invited to fire the salute
                Message 7 of 22 , Mar 31, 2011
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                  Roger that Vic. She's grand. I have an "official certificate" from the time a few years ago when the United Train of Artillery was invited to fire the salute from her at her annual turning. I look forward to seeing the restored Constitution.

                  Michael
                • awhitelion2000
                  Probably wont be long after launching that the Hermione will be taken into British service!
                  Message 8 of 22 , Mar 31, 2011
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                    Probably wont be long after launching that the Hermione will be taken into British service!

                    --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Terry" <tlubka@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > There was mention in this discussion line of the cost in today's money how much it would cost to build a frigate of the age of sail well there's being built right now in France.
                    >
                    > Photos of which are here:
                    >
                    > http://www.fotopedia.com/albums/MjUdkQg3H9A/entries/XBlT3U6-daw
                    >
                    > and the official site of the build is here:
                    >
                    > http://www.hermione.com/en/home/
                    >
                    > Regards,
                    >
                    >
                    > Terry
                    >
                  • Robert White
                    There were indeed some major renovations. Brand spanking new spar deck and recanted which required the replacement of all of the braces underneath.
                    Message 9 of 22 , Mar 31, 2011
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                      There were indeed some major renovations. Brand spanking new spar deck and
                      recanted which required the replacement of all of the braces underneath.
                      Additionally the gunnel in most areas was reduced by over a foot. It appears
                      that in an earlier renovation instead of relying upon the original plans the
                      renovators at the time worked off of pictures and the gunnel looked to be about
                      13 inches taller. Unfortunately the 13 inches were nothing more than canvas
                      where the sailors would air their hammocks and other gear. She is getting close
                      to being finished with this fit out. Note the prior renovators were not the
                      historical group stationed in Boston which does all work on her now. Bob White




                      ________________________________
                      From: whittakermp <whittakermp@...>
                      To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Thu, March 31, 2011 9:11:36 AM
                      Subject: 1812 Re: USF Constitution


                      Roger that Vic. She's grand. I have an "official certificate" from the time a
                      few years ago when the United Train of Artillery was invited to fire the salute
                      from her at her annual turning. I look forward to seeing the restored
                      Constitution.

                      Michael




                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Terry
                      Bob, Could you answer a question about the USF Constitution? I ve always wondered if all the guns on her are the real deal or due to weight and stress on the
                      Message 10 of 22 , Apr 1, 2011
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                        Bob,
                        Could you answer a question about the USF Constitution? I've always wondered if all the guns on her are the real deal or due to weight and stress on the ship most are quakers?

                        I know the Victory has 'artificial' guns on her due to the stress of weight.


                        Regards,

                        Terry
                      • usmarine1814
                        Terry, Bob may confirm or not, but I believe that all the guns are made of Iron (long guns and carronades). I have taken part in the moving of the 24s on the
                        Message 11 of 22 , Apr 2, 2011
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                          Terry,
                          Bob may confirm or not, but I believe that all the guns are made of Iron (long guns and carronades). I have taken part in the moving of the 24s on the gun deck and it took 12 of us to make headway. They are "Quakers" in the sense that they are not working guns as there are no vents to the breech. However the two mosdt forward guns on each side of the gun deck are modern day 3in guns (i believe) encased within a fiberglass body of a 24 pounder. They can be loaded and fired through the breech for firing the salutes. As seen in the group picture.
                          YHOS
                          Colin Murphy
                          USS CON 1812 MG
                          --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Terry" <tlubka@...> wrote:
                          >
                          > Bob,
                          > Could you answer a question about the USF Constitution? I've always wondered if all the guns on her are the real deal or due to weight and stress on the ship most are quakers?
                          >
                          > I know the Victory has 'artificial' guns on her due to the stress of weight.
                          >
                          >
                          > Regards,
                          >
                          > Terry
                          >
                        • Robert White
                          Well, it depends on what you mean by the real deal . None of Constitution s guns are her original guns. All are replicas. But none are quakers . The 24
                          Message 12 of 22 , Apr 4, 2011
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                            Well, it depends on what you mean by the "real deal". None of Constitution's
                            guns are her original guns. All are replicas. But none are "quakers". The 24
                            pounders average about 6 tons a piece and the 32 pound smashers (carronades)
                            about 3 to 4 tons each. The only sacrifice to historical accuracy are the two
                            forward 24 pounders on the gun deck one on the port and one on the starboard
                            side which are actually modified to breech loaders which fire a shell. These
                            two guns firing from alternating sides are what are used to fire the gun
                            salutes. On each trip we generally fire a 21 gun salute opposite Fort
                            Independence in the harbor saluting the United States and then closer to where
                            we dock parallel to where the Statehouse is located inland and actually fairly
                            close to where she was launched we fire a 19 gun salute to the Commonwealth of
                            Massachusetts. Constitution is a rated 44 but normally carried a compliment of
                            55 guns. No problems on weight and stress due to her design and contrary to
                            another post due to her lack of "rot". Great book with all kinds of specs etc.
                            written by a former commanding officer is "A Most Fortunate Ship".

                            Bob White, 1812 Marine Guard, USF Constitution.



                            ________________________________
                            From: Terry <tlubka@...>
                            To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                            Sent: Sat, April 2, 2011 12:34:25 AM
                            Subject: Re: 1812 USF Constitution


                            Bob,
                            Could you answer a question about the USF Constitution? I've always wondered if
                            all the guns on her are the real deal or due to weight and stress on the ship
                            most are quakers?

                            I know the Victory has 'artificial' guns on her due to the stress of weight.

                            Regards,

                            Terry




                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • JJ
                            ANN, We,the 1812 Marine Guard have the very extreme pleasure of participating each year in the celebration of the Ships Birthday every Oct.21st. The Marine
                            Message 13 of 22 , Apr 4, 2011
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                              ANN, We,the 1812 Marine Guard have the very extreme pleasure of participating each year in the celebration of the Ships Birthday every Oct.21st. The Marine Guard as part of the ships crew also receives our RUM ration. (Grog) We are the last and ONLY ship in the US NAVY to attend to the custom.

                              --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, annbwass@... wrote:
                              >
                              > I had the honor to be part of the Fort McHenry contingent to the
                              > Charlestown Navy Yard in 2000. We had the extreme privilege of a private tour of
                              > the ship, as well as being on the USS J F Kennedy for the tall ship sail-by
                              > (or whatever that is technically called.) We also did living history
                              > interpretation at the Navy Yard while we there. It was definitely a
                              > once-in-a-lifetime experience, all in all. Don't know that I will ever get to ride the
                              > flight deck elevator on a carrier again, or see alcohol served on a US
                              > Navy ship!
                              >
                              > Ann Wass
                              >
                              >
                              > In a message dated 3/30/2011 6:07:03 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                              > suthren@... writes:
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > In 1992 I had the pleasure to sail into Boston harbour as crew in the
                              > Canadian square-topsail schooner 'Pacific Swift', on a passage from
                              > Baltimore to Halifax. We arrived at 'Constitution's' pier just as morning
                              > Colors took place, and dipped our Canadian ensign to the grand old lady.
                              > Her
                              > crew could not have been finer hosts for tours, and it was a honor to go
                              > below in such a storied ship of such importance to the USN. When we sailed
                              > for Halifax we dipped ensign again and even fired a salute to her---with a
                              > 10 gauge blank---but felt a much deeper sense of respect for her and her
                              > huge, handsome ensign than our little gun displayed. A visit to her is
                              > unforgettable, and should be a goal of every 1812 re-enactor, of whatever
                              > national loyalty.
                              >
                              > Vic Suthren
                              >
                              > Canada
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                            • Tim Pickles
                              Interesting that the US Navy refers to the drink as grog . As you are probably aware this name derives from Vice Admiral Edward Vernon RN who introduced a
                              Message 14 of 22 , Apr 5, 2011
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                                Interesting that the US Navy refers to the drink as 'grog'. As you are probably aware this name derives from Vice Admiral Edward Vernon RN who introduced a measure of water into the rum ration in 1740. He commonly wore a grogram cloth coat and so was nicknamed old grogram or old grog. Nice that the most 'British' of US units also keeps up a British tradition.


                                Aye


                                Tim


                                -----Original Message-----
                                From: JJ <cplusmc1812@...>
                                To: WarOf1812 <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Mon, Apr 4, 2011 3:44 pm
                                Subject: Re: 1812 USF Constitution







                                ANN, We,the 1812 Marine Guard have the very extreme pleasure of participating each year in the celebration of the Ships Birthday every Oct.21st. The Marine Guard as part of the ships crew also receives our RUM ration. (Grog) We are the last and ONLY ship in the US NAVY to attend to the custom.

                                --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, annbwass@... wrote:
                                >
                                > I had the honor to be part of the Fort McHenry contingent to the
                                > Charlestown Navy Yard in 2000. We had the extreme privilege of a private tour of
                                > the ship, as well as being on the USS J F Kennedy for the tall ship sail-by
                                > (or whatever that is technically called.) We also did living history
                                > interpretation at the Navy Yard while we there. It was definitely a
                                > once-in-a-lifetime experience, all in all. Don't know that I will ever get to ride the
                                > flight deck elevator on a carrier again, or see alcohol served on a US
                                > Navy ship!
                                >
                                > Ann Wass
                                >
                                >
                                > In a message dated 3/30/2011 6:07:03 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                                > suthren@... writes:
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > In 1992 I had the pleasure to sail into Boston harbour as crew in the
                                > Canadian square-topsail schooner 'Pacific Swift', on a passage from
                                > Baltimore to Halifax. We arrived at 'Constitution's' pier just as morning
                                > Colors took place, and dipped our Canadian ensign to the grand old lady.
                                > Her
                                > crew could not have been finer hosts for tours, and it was a honor to go
                                > below in such a storied ship of such importance to the USN. When we sailed
                                > for Halifax we dipped ensign again and even fired a salute to her---with a
                                > 10 gauge blank---but felt a much deeper sense of respect for her and her
                                > huge, handsome ensign than our little gun displayed. A visit to her is
                                > unforgettable, and should be a goal of every 1812 re-enactor, of whatever
                                > national loyalty.
                                >
                                > Vic Suthren
                                >
                                > Canada
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                >










                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • annbwass@aol.com
                                As a textiles person, I appreciate that origin of the term. Am I remembering correctly that lime juice was also an essential ingredient of grog? Ann Wass ...
                                Message 15 of 22 , Apr 5, 2011
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                                  As a textiles person, I appreciate that origin of the term. Am I remembering correctly that lime juice was also an essential ingredient of grog?

                                  Ann Wass




                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: Tim Pickles <BritcomHMP@...>
                                  To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Tue, Apr 5, 2011 8:20 am
                                  Subject: Re: 1812 USF Constitution




                                  Interesting that the US Navy refers to the drink as 'grog'. As you are probably aware this name derives from Vice Admiral Edward Vernon RN who introduced a measure of water into the rum ration in 1740. He commonly wore a grogram cloth coat and so was nicknamed old grogram or old grog. Nice that the most 'British' of US units also keeps up a British tradition.

                                  Aye

                                  Tim

                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: JJ <cplusmc1812@...>
                                  To: WarOf1812 <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Sent: Mon, Apr 4, 2011 3:44 pm
                                  Subject: Re: 1812 USF Constitution

                                  ANN, We,the 1812 Marine Guard have the very extreme pleasure of participating each year in the celebration of the Ships Birthday every Oct.21st. The Marine Guard as part of the ships crew also receives our RUM ration. (Grog) We are the last and ONLY ship in the US NAVY to attend to the custom.

                                  --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, annbwass@... wrote:
                                  >
                                  > I had the honor to be part of the Fort McHenry contingent to the
                                  > Charlestown Navy Yard in 2000. We had the extreme privilege of a private tour of
                                  > the ship, as well as being on the USS J F Kennedy for the tall ship sail-by
                                  > (or whatever that is technically called.) We also did living history
                                  > interpretation at the Navy Yard while we there. It was definitely a
                                  > once-in-a-lifetime experience, all in all. Don't know that I will ever get to ride the
                                  > flight deck elevator on a carrier again, or see alcohol served on a US
                                  > Navy ship!
                                  >
                                  > Ann Wass
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > In a message dated 3/30/2011 6:07:03 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                                  > suthren@... writes:
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > In 1992 I had the pleasure to sail into Boston harbour as crew in the
                                  > Canadian square-topsail schooner 'Pacific Swift', on a passage from
                                  > Baltimore to Halifax. We arrived at 'Constitution's' pier just as morning
                                  > Colors took place, and dipped our Canadian ensign to the grand old lady.
                                  > Her
                                  > crew could not have been finer hosts for tours, and it was a honor to go
                                  > below in such a storied ship of such importance to the USN. When we sailed
                                  > for Halifax we dipped ensign again and even fired a salute to her---with a
                                  > 10 gauge blank---but felt a much deeper sense of respect for her and her
                                  > huge, handsome ensign than our little gun displayed. A visit to her is
                                  > unforgettable, and should be a goal of every 1812 re-enactor, of whatever
                                  > national loyalty.
                                  >
                                  > Vic Suthren
                                  >
                                  > Canada
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  >


                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Tim Pickles
                                  Actually no Ann,s and lime lime juce were used as a preventitive for scurvy but not in grog. Tim ... From: annbwass To: WarOf1812
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Apr 5, 2011
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                                    Actually no Ann,s and lime lime juce were used as a preventitive for scurvy but not in grog.


                                    Tim





                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: annbwass <annbwass@...>
                                    To: WarOf1812 <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Sent: Tue, Apr 5, 2011 3:27 am
                                    Subject: Re: 1812 USF Constitution






                                    As a textiles person, I appreciate that origin of the term. Am I remembering correctly that lime juice was also an essential ingredient of grog?

                                    Ann Wass

                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: Tim Pickles <BritcomHMP@...>
                                    To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Tue, Apr 5, 2011 8:20 am
                                    Subject: Re: 1812 USF Constitution

                                    Interesting that the US Navy refers to the drink as 'grog'. As you are probably aware this name derives from Vice Admiral Edward Vernon RN who introduced a measure of water into the rum ration in 1740. He commonly wore a grogram cloth coat and so was nicknamed old grogram or old grog. Nice that the most 'British' of US units also keeps up a British tradition.

                                    Aye

                                    Tim

                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: JJ <cplusmc1812@...>
                                    To: WarOf1812 <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Sent: Mon, Apr 4, 2011 3:44 pm
                                    Subject: Re: 1812 USF Constitution

                                    ANN, We,the 1812 Marine Guard have the very extreme pleasure of participating each year in the celebration of the Ships Birthday every Oct.21st. The Marine Guard as part of the ships crew also receives our RUM ration. (Grog) We are the last and ONLY ship in the US NAVY to attend to the custom.

                                    --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, annbwass@... wrote:
                                    >
                                    > I had the honor to be part of the Fort McHenry contingent to the
                                    > Charlestown Navy Yard in 2000. We had the extreme privilege of a private tour of
                                    > the ship, as well as being on the USS J F Kennedy for the tall ship sail-by
                                    > (or whatever that is technically called.) We also did living history
                                    > interpretation at the Navy Yard while we there. It was definitely a
                                    > once-in-a-lifetime experience, all in all. Don't know that I will ever get to ride the
                                    > flight deck elevator on a carrier again, or see alcohol served on a US
                                    > Navy ship!
                                    >
                                    > Ann Wass
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > In a message dated 3/30/2011 6:07:03 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                                    > suthren@... writes:
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > In 1992 I had the pleasure to sail into Boston harbour as crew in the
                                    > Canadian square-topsail schooner 'Pacific Swift', on a passage from
                                    > Baltimore to Halifax. We arrived at 'Constitution's' pier just as morning
                                    > Colors took place, and dipped our Canadian ensign to the grand old lady.
                                    > Her
                                    > crew could not have been finer hosts for tours, and it was a honor to go
                                    > below in such a storied ship of such importance to the USN. When we sailed
                                    > for Halifax we dipped ensign again and even fired a salute to her---with a
                                    > 10 gauge blank---but felt a much deeper sense of respect for her and her
                                    > huge, handsome ensign than our little gun displayed. A visit to her is
                                    > unforgettable, and should be a goal of every 1812 re-enactor, of whatever
                                    > national loyalty.
                                    >
                                    > Vic Suthren
                                    >
                                    > Canada
                                    >
                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    >

                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]









                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Tim Pickles
                                    that should have read limes and lime juce ... From: Tim Pickles To: WarOf1812 Sent: Tue, Apr 5, 2011 6:08 am
                                    Message 17 of 22 , Apr 5, 2011
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                                      that should have read


                                      limes and lime juce





                                      -----Original Message-----
                                      From: Tim Pickles <BritcomHMP@...>
                                      To: WarOf1812 <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                                      Sent: Tue, Apr 5, 2011 6:08 am
                                      Subject: Re: 1812 USF Constitution





                                      Actually no Ann,s and lime lime juce were used as a preventitive for scurvy but not in grog.

                                      Tim

                                      -----Original Message-----
                                      From: annbwass <annbwass@...>
                                      To: WarOf1812 <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                                      Sent: Tue, Apr 5, 2011 3:27 am
                                      Subject: Re: 1812 USF Constitution

                                      As a textiles person, I appreciate that origin of the term. Am I remembering correctly that lime juice was also an essential ingredient of grog?

                                      Ann Wass

                                      -----Original Message-----
                                      From: Tim Pickles <BritcomHMP@...>
                                      To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Tue, Apr 5, 2011 8:20 am
                                      Subject: Re: 1812 USF Constitution

                                      Interesting that the US Navy refers to the drink as 'grog'. As you are probably aware this name derives from Vice Admiral Edward Vernon RN who introduced a measure of water into the rum ration in 1740. He commonly wore a grogram cloth coat and so was nicknamed old grogram or old grog. Nice that the most 'British' of US units also keeps up a British tradition.

                                      Aye

                                      Tim

                                      -----Original Message-----
                                      From: JJ <cplusmc1812@...>
                                      To: WarOf1812 <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                                      Sent: Mon, Apr 4, 2011 3:44 pm
                                      Subject: Re: 1812 USF Constitution

                                      ANN, We,the 1812 Marine Guard have the very extreme pleasure of participating each year in the celebration of the Ships Birthday every Oct.21st. The Marine Guard as part of the ships crew also receives our RUM ration. (Grog) We are the last and ONLY ship in the US NAVY to attend to the custom.

                                      --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, annbwass@... wrote:
                                      >
                                      > I had the honor to be part of the Fort McHenry contingent to the
                                      > Charlestown Navy Yard in 2000. We had the extreme privilege of a private tour of
                                      > the ship, as well as being on the USS J F Kennedy for the tall ship sail-by
                                      > (or whatever that is technically called.) We also did living history
                                      > interpretation at the Navy Yard while we there. It was definitely a
                                      > once-in-a-lifetime experience, all in all. Don't know that I will ever get to ride the
                                      > flight deck elevator on a carrier again, or see alcohol served on a US
                                      > Navy ship!
                                      >
                                      > Ann Wass
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > In a message dated 3/30/2011 6:07:03 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                                      > suthren@... writes:
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > In 1992 I had the pleasure to sail into Boston harbour as crew in the
                                      > Canadian square-topsail schooner 'Pacific Swift', on a passage from
                                      > Baltimore to Halifax. We arrived at 'Constitution's' pier just as morning
                                      > Colors took place, and dipped our Canadian ensign to the grand old lady.
                                      > Her
                                      > crew could not have been finer hosts for tours, and it was a honor to go
                                      > below in such a storied ship of such importance to the USN. When we sailed
                                      > for Halifax we dipped ensign again and even fired a salute to her---with a
                                      > 10 gauge blank---but felt a much deeper sense of respect for her and her
                                      > huge, handsome ensign than our little gun displayed. A visit to her is
                                      > unforgettable, and should be a goal of every 1812 re-enactor, of whatever
                                      > national loyalty.
                                      >
                                      > Vic Suthren
                                      >
                                      > Canada
                                      >
                                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      >

                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • JOHN GREIG
                                      Bad enough desecrating good rum with water.  But to add lime juice well !!!!!!! Bottoms Up. Squire ________________________________ From: Tim Pickles
                                      Message 18 of 22 , Apr 5, 2011
                                      • 0 Attachment
                                        Bad enough desecrating good rum with water.  But to add lime juice well !!!!!!!

                                        Bottoms Up.

                                        Squire




                                        ________________________________
                                        From: Tim Pickles <BritcomHMP@...>
                                        To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Tuesday, 5 April, 2011 16:07:28
                                        Subject: Re: 1812 USF Constitution

                                         
                                        Actually no Ann,s and lime lime juce were used as a preventitive for scurvy but
                                        not in grog.

                                        Tim

                                        -----Original Message-----
                                        From: annbwass <annbwass@...>
                                        To: WarOf1812 <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                                        Sent: Tue, Apr 5, 2011 3:27 am
                                        Subject: Re: 1812 USF Constitution

                                        As a textiles person, I appreciate that origin of the term. Am I remembering
                                        correctly that lime juice was also an essential ingredient of grog?

                                        Ann Wass

                                        -----Original Message-----
                                        From: Tim Pickles <BritcomHMP@...>
                                        To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Tue, Apr 5, 2011 8:20 am
                                        Subject: Re: 1812 USF Constitution

                                        Interesting that the US Navy refers to the drink as 'grog'. As you are probably
                                        aware this name derives from Vice Admiral Edward Vernon RN who introduced a
                                        measure of water into the rum ration in 1740. He commonly wore a grogram cloth
                                        coat and so was nicknamed old grogram or old grog. Nice that the most 'British'
                                        of US units also keeps up a British tradition.

                                        Aye

                                        Tim

                                        -----Original Message-----
                                        From: JJ <cplusmc1812@...>
                                        To: WarOf1812 <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                                        Sent: Mon, Apr 4, 2011 3:44 pm
                                        Subject: Re: 1812 USF Constitution

                                        ANN, We,the 1812 Marine Guard have the very extreme pleasure of participating
                                        each year in the celebration of the Ships Birthday every Oct.21st. The Marine
                                        Guard as part of the ships crew also receives our RUM ration. (Grog) We are the
                                        last and ONLY ship in the US NAVY to attend to the custom.


                                        --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, annbwass@... wrote:
                                        >
                                        > I had the honor to be part of the Fort McHenry contingent to the
                                        > Charlestown Navy Yard in 2000. We had the extreme privilege of a private tour
                                        >of
                                        >
                                        > the ship, as well as being on the USS J F Kennedy for the tall ship sail-by
                                        > (or whatever that is technically called.) We also did living history
                                        > interpretation at the Navy Yard while we there. It was definitely a
                                        > once-in-a-lifetime experience, all in all. Don't know that I will ever get to
                                        >ride the
                                        >
                                        > flight deck elevator on a carrier again, or see alcohol served on a US
                                        > Navy ship!
                                        >
                                        > Ann Wass
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > In a message dated 3/30/2011 6:07:03 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                                        > suthren@... writes:
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > In 1992 I had the pleasure to sail into Boston harbour as crew in the
                                        > Canadian square-topsail schooner 'Pacific Swift', on a passage from
                                        > Baltimore to Halifax. We arrived at 'Constitution's' pier just as morning
                                        > Colors took place, and dipped our Canadian ensign to the grand old lady.
                                        > Her
                                        > crew could not have been finer hosts for tours, and it was a honor to go
                                        > below in such a storied ship of such importance to the USN. When we sailed
                                        > for Halifax we dipped ensign again and even fired a salute to her---with a
                                        > 10 gauge blank---but felt a much deeper sense of respect for her and her
                                        > huge, handsome ensign than our little gun displayed. A visit to her is
                                        > unforgettable, and should be a goal of every 1812 re-enactor, of whatever
                                        > national loyalty.
                                        >
                                        > Vic Suthren
                                        >
                                        > Canada
                                        >
                                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        >
                                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        >

                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • annbwass@aol.com
                                        A restaurant I used to frequent served a drink called Navy grog and it had lime juice. I know lime juice was a scurvy preventative, but I thought perhaps by
                                        Message 19 of 22 , Apr 5, 2011
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                          A restaurant I used to frequent served a drink called "Navy grog" and it had lime juice. I know lime juice was a scurvy preventative, but I thought perhaps by adding it to the grog, you took care of several problems at once.

                                          Ann Wass


                                          -----Original Message-----
                                          From: Tim Pickles <BritcomHMP@...>
                                          To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                                          Sent: Tue, Apr 5, 2011 11:07 am
                                          Subject: Re: 1812 USF Constitution




                                          Actually no Ann,s and lime lime juce were used as a preventitive for scurvy but not in grog.

                                          Tim

                                          -----Original Message-----
                                          From: annbwass <annbwass@...>
                                          To: WarOf1812 <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                                          Sent: Tue, Apr 5, 2011 3:27 am
                                          Subject: Re: 1812 USF Constitution

                                          As a textiles person, I appreciate that origin of the term. Am I remembering correctly that lime juice was also an essential ingredient of grog?

                                          Ann Wass

                                          -----Original Message-----
                                          From: Tim Pickles <BritcomHMP@...>
                                          To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                                          Sent: Tue, Apr 5, 2011 8:20 am
                                          Subject: Re: 1812 USF Constitution

                                          Interesting that the US Navy refers to the drink as 'grog'. As you are probably aware this name derives from Vice Admiral Edward Vernon RN who introduced a measure of water into the rum ration in 1740. He commonly wore a grogram cloth coat and so was nicknamed old grogram or old grog. Nice that the most 'British' of US units also keeps up a British tradition.

                                          Aye

                                          Tim

                                          -----Original Message-----
                                          From: JJ <cplusmc1812@...>
                                          To: WarOf1812 <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                                          Sent: Mon, Apr 4, 2011 3:44 pm
                                          Subject: Re: 1812 USF Constitution

                                          ANN, We,the 1812 Marine Guard have the very extreme pleasure of participating each year in the celebration of the Ships Birthday every Oct.21st. The Marine Guard as part of the ships crew also receives our RUM ration. (Grog) We are the last and ONLY ship in the US NAVY to attend to the custom.

                                          --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, annbwass@... wrote:
                                          >
                                          > I had the honor to be part of the Fort McHenry contingent to the
                                          > Charlestown Navy Yard in 2000. We had the extreme privilege of a private tour of
                                          > the ship, as well as being on the USS J F Kennedy for the tall ship sail-by
                                          > (or whatever that is technically called.) We also did living history
                                          > interpretation at the Navy Yard while we there. It was definitely a
                                          > once-in-a-lifetime experience, all in all. Don't know that I will ever get to ride the
                                          > flight deck elevator on a carrier again, or see alcohol served on a US
                                          > Navy ship!
                                          >
                                          > Ann Wass
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > In a message dated 3/30/2011 6:07:03 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                                          > suthren@... writes:
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > In 1992 I had the pleasure to sail into Boston harbour as crew in the
                                          > Canadian square-topsail schooner 'Pacific Swift', on a passage from
                                          > Baltimore to Halifax. We arrived at 'Constitution's' pier just as morning
                                          > Colors took place, and dipped our Canadian ensign to the grand old lady.
                                          > Her
                                          > crew could not have been finer hosts for tours, and it was a honor to go
                                          > below in such a storied ship of such importance to the USN. When we sailed
                                          > for Halifax we dipped ensign again and even fired a salute to her---with a
                                          > 10 gauge blank---but felt a much deeper sense of respect for her and her
                                          > huge, handsome ensign than our little gun displayed. A visit to her is
                                          > unforgettable, and should be a goal of every 1812 re-enactor, of whatever
                                          > national loyalty.
                                          >
                                          > Vic Suthren
                                          >
                                          > Canada
                                          >
                                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          >
                                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          >

                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                                          =


                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • Robert White
                                          Actually, I think the recipe used on Constitution does include lime juice. I do know that the grog sold by Pusser s itself also contains lime juice as I
                                          Message 20 of 22 , Apr 5, 2011
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Actually, I think the recipe used on Constitution does include lime juice. I do
                                            know that the "grog" sold by Pusser's itself also contains lime juice as I
                                            bought some when visiting in Tortola where it is all produced. In fact met the
                                            owner there. Bob White, 1812 Marine Guard, USF Constitution.



                                            ________________________________
                                            From: Tim Pickles <BritcomHMP@...>
                                            To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                                            Sent: Tue, April 5, 2011 11:12:44 AM
                                            Subject: Re: 1812 USF Constitution


                                            that should have read

                                            limes and lime juce

                                            -----Original Message-----
                                            From: Tim Pickles <BritcomHMP@...>
                                            To: WarOf1812 <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                                            Sent: Tue, Apr 5, 2011 6:08 am
                                            Subject: Re: 1812 USF Constitution

                                            Actually no Ann,s and lime lime juce were used as a preventitive for scurvy but
                                            not in grog.

                                            Tim

                                            -----Original Message-----
                                            From: annbwass <annbwass@...>
                                            To: WarOf1812 <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                                            Sent: Tue, Apr 5, 2011 3:27 am
                                            Subject: Re: 1812 USF Constitution

                                            As a textiles person, I appreciate that origin of the term. Am I remembering
                                            correctly that lime juice was also an essential ingredient of grog?

                                            Ann Wass

                                            -----Original Message-----
                                            From: Tim Pickles <BritcomHMP@...>
                                            To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                                            Sent: Tue, Apr 5, 2011 8:20 am
                                            Subject: Re: 1812 USF Constitution

                                            Interesting that the US Navy refers to the drink as 'grog'. As you are probably
                                            aware this name derives from Vice Admiral Edward Vernon RN who introduced a
                                            measure of water into the rum ration in 1740. He commonly wore a grogram cloth
                                            coat and so was nicknamed old grogram or old grog. Nice that the most 'British'
                                            of US units also keeps up a British tradition.

                                            Aye

                                            Tim

                                            -----Original Message-----
                                            From: JJ <cplusmc1812@...>
                                            To: WarOf1812 <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                                            Sent: Mon, Apr 4, 2011 3:44 pm
                                            Subject: Re: 1812 USF Constitution

                                            ANN, We,the 1812 Marine Guard have the very extreme pleasure of participating
                                            each year in the celebration of the Ships Birthday every Oct.21st. The Marine
                                            Guard as part of the ships crew also receives our RUM ration. (Grog) We are the
                                            last and ONLY ship in the US NAVY to attend to the custom.


                                            --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, annbwass@... wrote:
                                            >
                                            > I had the honor to be part of the Fort McHenry contingent to the
                                            > Charlestown Navy Yard in 2000. We had the extreme privilege of a private tour
                                            >of
                                            >
                                            > the ship, as well as being on the USS J F Kennedy for the tall ship sail-by
                                            > (or whatever that is technically called.) We also did living history
                                            > interpretation at the Navy Yard while we there. It was definitely a
                                            > once-in-a-lifetime experience, all in all. Don't know that I will ever get to
                                            >ride the
                                            >
                                            > flight deck elevator on a carrier again, or see alcohol served on a US
                                            > Navy ship!
                                            >
                                            > Ann Wass
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > In a message dated 3/30/2011 6:07:03 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                                            > suthren@... writes:
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > In 1992 I had the pleasure to sail into Boston harbour as crew in the
                                            > Canadian square-topsail schooner 'Pacific Swift', on a passage from
                                            > Baltimore to Halifax. We arrived at 'Constitution's' pier just as morning
                                            > Colors took place, and dipped our Canadian ensign to the grand old lady.
                                            > Her
                                            > crew could not have been finer hosts for tours, and it was a honor to go
                                            > below in such a storied ship of such importance to the USN. When we sailed
                                            > for Halifax we dipped ensign again and even fired a salute to her---with a
                                            > 10 gauge blank---but felt a much deeper sense of respect for her and her
                                            > huge, handsome ensign than our little gun displayed. A visit to her is
                                            > unforgettable, and should be a goal of every 1812 re-enactor, of whatever
                                            > national loyalty.
                                            >
                                            > Vic Suthren
                                            >
                                            > Canada
                                            >
                                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            >

                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • Lee
                                            Dear list- In 1796, encouraged by Sir Gilbert Blane, a prominent naval surgeon, the Admiralty required in it s Regulations and Instructions Relating to his
                                            Message 21 of 22 , Apr 5, 2011
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              Dear list-

                                              In 1796, encouraged by Sir Gilbert Blane, a prominent naval surgeon, the Admiralty required in it's Regulations and Instructions Relating to his Majesty's Service at Sea that, "Lemon Juice at half an ounce per day with sugar at same amount to be allowed when on, or be proceeding to, foreign stations and to be mixed with grog or wine--BUT not while beer is being issued." This quote can be found on p. 40 of Nelson's Blood byJames Pack.

                                              Although any citrus would do, lemon juice was the most potent. However limes were less expensive and became the citrus of choice as time went by. I am sure that most of you know that this gave Brit sailors the nickname "Limey" that eventuated in the same word meaning any generic Brit.

                                              Take Care, Lee Davis,Surgeon, Royal Navy
                                            • charliequ2@gmail.com
                                              Well said sir. Should we refrain on the quality & efficacy of those...? Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry ... From: Lee Sender:
                                              Message 22 of 22 , Apr 5, 2011
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                Well said sir. Should we refrain on the quality & efficacy of those...?
                                                Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

                                                -----Original Message-----
                                                From: "Lee" <wartman@...>
                                                Sender: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                                                Date: Tue, 05 Apr 2011 20:58:37
                                                To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                                                Reply-To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                                                Subject: Re: 1812 USF Constitution

                                                Dear list-

                                                In 1796, encouraged by Sir Gilbert Blane, a prominent naval surgeon, the Admiralty required in it's Regulations and Instructions Relating to his Majesty's Service at Sea that, "Lemon Juice at half an ounce per day with sugar at same amount to be allowed when on, or be proceeding to, foreign stations and to be mixed with grog or wine--BUT not while beer is being issued." This quote can be found on p. 40 of Nelson's Blood byJames Pack.

                                                Although any citrus would do, lemon juice was the most potent. However limes were less expensive and became the citrus of choice as time went by. I am sure that most of you know that this gave Brit sailors the nickname "Limey" that eventuated in the same word meaning any generic Brit.

                                                Take Care, Lee Davis,Surgeon, Royal Navy




                                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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