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RE: [WarOf1812] Role of french canadians during the war

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  • Ray Hobbs
    Ru:In my understanding the uniforms were identical, that is why the two units were often being confused in reports. Here is a citation from the relevant
    Message 1 of 10 , Mar 4, 2011
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      Ru:In my understanding the uniforms were identical, that is why the two units were often being confused in reports. Here is a citation from the relevant warrant to be found in the Archives in Ottawa:
      Blue jacket, red cuff and collar white button ; felt helmet with bearskin ; grey overalls wrap- ped with leather, and Canadian beef half-boots to lace iu front.
      (Canadian Archives, C. 703, p. 63.)
      The "felt helmet" to which the warrant refers is a short round hat with brim, a bit like a truncated top hat, over which, from front to back, was fixed a strip of black bearskin. Its overall effect from a distance was to make it look like a "Tarleton" helmet. "White buttons" were made of pewter, and plain, probably domed. The uniform was an adaptation from the uniform of drivers for the Royal Wagon Train, with the adjustment on the cuff - pointed, not flat.
      Hope this helps.Ray
      To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
      From: ruyourboat@...
      Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 11:46:10 +0000
      Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Role of french canadians during the war




























      Hi Ray



      Thanks for this post. You tantalisingly talk of havi9ng the same uniform as the Provinical Light Dragoons of Upper Canada...other than blue coats do you have any more detail on these guys (Merritt's troop) please?



      Thanks Ru



      --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, <ray.hobbs@...> wrote:

      >

      > In addition to the Infantry regiments listed by Vic, do not forget the Canadian Light Dragoons

      > (Coleman's Troop), which was raised in Montreal in early 1813, and was stood down in late 1815, early

      > 1816.

      > Although raised by an "anglo", the unit was about 50% French Canadian, and served well in the

      > defence of Upper Canada throughout the war. Several members were captured at Moraviantown, and

      > about half of those captured died in captivity.

      > Unfortunately, because of the almost identical uniforms to the Provincial Light edragoons of Upper

      > Canada, the CLD are often confused with them, even in official records.

      > Coleman raised the unit (and paid for much of their kit himself) by using as his core some troops from

      > the Royal Mounted Veterans - veteran British cavalry troopers who had settled in the Canadas. This

      > gave him a very solid base on which to build.

      > Of interest - after the war, partly because of ongoing political squabbles, Coleman settled in Beleville,

      > Upper Canada, and became a prominent politician in the region. His senior lieutenant, Benjamin

      > Holmes, went on to become a very important Quebec businessman, and one of the founders of the

      > Bank of Montreal.

      > Ain't history grand

      > Ray Hobbs

      > Sometimes a.k.a - as in the Crown Forces Mess, Capt. Coleman.

      >

      >

      >

      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

      >


















      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Colonel
      Ray, I would like you, and others, to know that over the winter I have put together a kit for the Canadian Light Dragoons, AKA Coleman s Troop. I did this to
      Message 2 of 10 , Mar 5, 2011
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        Ray,
        I would like you, and others, to know that over the winter I have put together a kit for the Canadian Light Dragoons, AKA Coleman's Troop. I did this to add it to my other mounted impressions thinking that sometime in the future I will be able to wear it at a 200th event that will allow horses on the field. There are other interpretations and illustrations on the felt hat, however, and I made mine from a felt jocky style similar to the Rev War style Tarleton helmet. For all else I followed the Canadian Archives, C. 703, p. 63. It would be nice if others would wish to do this impression as well.

        Tom Moore

        --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, Ray Hobbs <ray.hobbs@...> wrote:
        >
        >
        > Ru:In my understanding the uniforms were identical, that is why the two units were often being confused in reports. Here is a citation from the relevant warrant to be found in the Archives in Ottawa:
        > Blue jacket, red cuff and collar white button ; felt helmet with bearskin ; grey overalls wrap- ped with leather, and Canadian beef half-boots to lace iu front.
        > (Canadian Archives, C. 703, p. 63.)
        > The "felt helmet" to which the warrant refers is a short round hat with brim, a bit like a truncated top hat, over which, from front to back, was fixed a strip of black bearskin. Its overall effect from a distance was to make it look like a "Tarleton" helmet. "White buttons" were made of pewter, and plain, probably domed. The uniform was an adaptation from the uniform of drivers for the Royal Wagon Train, with the adjustment on the cuff - pointed, not flat.
        > Hope this helps.Ray
        > To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
        > From: ruyourboat@...
        > Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 11:46:10 +0000
        > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Role of french canadians during the war
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        > Hi Ray
        >
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        >
        > Thanks for this post. You tantalisingly talk of havi9ng the same uniform as the Provinical Light Dragoons of Upper Canada...other than blue coats do you have any more detail on these guys (Merritt's troop) please?
        >
        >
        >
        > Thanks Ru
        >
        >
        >
        > --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, <ray.hobbs@> wrote:
        >
        > >
        >
        > > In addition to the Infantry regiments listed by Vic, do not forget the Canadian Light Dragoons
        >
        > > (Coleman's Troop), which was raised in Montreal in early 1813, and was stood down in late 1815, early
        >
        > > 1816.
        >
        > > Although raised by an "anglo", the unit was about 50% French Canadian, and served well in the
        >
        > > defence of Upper Canada throughout the war. Several members were captured at Moraviantown, and
        >
        > > about half of those captured died in captivity.
        >
        > > Unfortunately, because of the almost identical uniforms to the Provincial Light edragoons of Upper
        >
        > > Canada, the CLD are often confused with them, even in official records.
        >
        > > Coleman raised the unit (and paid for much of their kit himself) by using as his core some troops from
        >
        > > the Royal Mounted Veterans - veteran British cavalry troopers who had settled in the Canadas. This
        >
        > > gave him a very solid base on which to build.
        >
        > > Of interest - after the war, partly because of ongoing political squabbles, Coleman settled in Beleville,
        >
        > > Upper Canada, and became a prominent politician in the region. His senior lieutenant, Benjamin
        >
        > > Holmes, went on to become a very important Quebec businessman, and one of the founders of the
        >
        > > Bank of Montreal.
        >
        > > Ain't history grand
        >
        > > Ray Hobbs
        >
        > > Sometimes a.k.a - as in the Crown Forces Mess, Capt. Coleman.
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > >
        >
        > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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        > >
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        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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      • Richard Johns
        Ray Thank you so much, that is great information and much appreciated.  The hat detail is especially welcome and will allow the unit to grace my wargames
        Message 3 of 10 , Mar 5, 2011
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          Ray

          Thank you so much, that is great information and much appreciated.  The hat
          detail is especially welcome and will allow the unit to grace my wargames table
          in due course.

          Best regards

          Richard 




          ________________________________
          From: Ray Hobbs <ray.hobbs@...>
          To: warof1812@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Fri, 4 March, 2011 20:36:13
          Subject: RE: [WarOf1812] Role of french canadians during the war


          Ru:In my understanding the uniforms were identical, that is why the two units
          were often being confused in reports. Here is a citation from the relevant
          warrant to be found in the Archives in Ottawa:
          Blue jacket, red cuff and collar white button ;    felt helmet with bearskin
          ;    grey overalls wrap- ped with leather, and Canadian beef half-boots to lace
          iu front.
          (Canadian Archives, C. 703, p. 63.)
          The "felt helmet" to which the warrant refers is a short round hat with brim, a
          bit like a truncated top hat, over which, from front to back, was fixed a strip
          of black bearskin. Its overall effect from a distance was to make it look like a
          "Tarleton" helmet. "White buttons" were made of pewter, and plain, probably
          domed. The uniform was an adaptation from the uniform of drivers for the Royal
          Wagon Train, with the adjustment on the cuff - pointed, not flat.
          Hope this helps.Ray
          To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
          From: ruyourboat@...
          Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 11:46:10 +0000
          Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Role of french canadians during the war






















           


             
               
               
                Hi Ray



          Thanks for this post.  You tantalisingly talk of havi9ng the same uniform as the
          Provinical Light Dragoons of Upper Canada...other than blue coats do you have
          any more detail on these guys (Merritt's troop) please?



          Thanks Ru



          --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, <ray.hobbs@...> wrote:

          >

          > In addition to the Infantry regiments listed by Vic, do not forget the Canadian
          >Light Dragoons
          >

          > (Coleman's Troop), which was raised in Montreal in early 1813, and was stood
          >down in late 1815, early
          >

          > 1816.

          > Although raised by an "anglo", the unit was about 50% French Canadian, and
          >served well in the
          >

          > defence of Upper Canada throughout the war. Several members were captured at
          >Moraviantown, and
          >

          > about half of those captured died in captivity.

          > Unfortunately, because of the almost identical uniforms to the Provincial Light
          >edragoons of Upper
          >

          > Canada, the CLD are often confused with them, even in official records.

          > Coleman raised the unit (and paid for much of their kit himself) by using as
          >his core some troops from
          >

          > the Royal Mounted Veterans - veteran British cavalry troopers who had settled
          >in the Canadas. This
          >

          > gave him a very solid base on which to build.

          > Of interest - after the war, partly because of ongoing political squabbles,
          >Coleman settled in Beleville,
          >

          > Upper Canada, and became a prominent politician in the region. His senior
          >lieutenant, Benjamin
          >

          > Holmes, went on to become a very important Quebec businessman, and one of the
          >founders of the
          >

          > Bank of Montreal.

          > Ain't history grand

          > Ray Hobbs

          > Sometimes a.k.a - as in the Crown Forces Mess, Capt. Coleman.

          >

          >

          >

          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

          >





             
             

             
             






                                   

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Ray Hobbs
          Thank you, Sarah. I am aware of the change. For Ru s inquiry I simply cut and pasted from Homfrey s section on uniforms - a little outdated, but it provided
          Message 4 of 10 , Mar 7, 2011
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            Thank you, Sarah. I am aware of the change. For "Ru's" inquiry I simply cut and pasted from Homfrey's section on uniforms - a little outdated, but it provided all the information needed.RegardsRay

            To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
            From: recce40@...
            Date: Mon, 7 Mar 2011 18:48:29 +0000
            Subject: 1812 Re: Role of french canadians during the war




























            Just an update, Ray.

            C.703 is now known as Record Group (RG)8-I "C-Series", vol. 703 (Reel number C-3236). This may be ordered through interlibrary loan from Library and Archives Canada.



            Cheers,

            Sarah



            --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Colonel" <lehrerprofessoren@...> wrote:

            >

            > Ray,

            > I would like you, and others, to know that over the winter I have put together a kit for the Canadian Light Dragoons, AKA Coleman's Troop. I did this to add it to my other mounted impressions thinking that sometime in the future I will be able to wear it at a 200th event that will allow horses on the field. There are other interpretations and illustrations on the felt hat, however, and I made mine from a felt jocky style similar to the Rev War style Tarleton helmet. For all else I followed the Canadian Archives, C. 703, p. 63. It would be nice if others would wish to do this impression as well.

            >

            > Tom Moore

            >

            > --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, Ray Hobbs <ray.hobbs@> wrote:

            > >

            > >

            > > Ru:In my understanding the uniforms were identical, that is why the two units were often being confused in reports. Here is a citation from the relevant warrant to be found in the Archives in Ottawa:

            > > Blue jacket, red cuff and collar white button ; felt helmet with bearskin ; grey overalls wrap- ped with leather, and Canadian beef half-boots to lace iu front.

            > > (Canadian Archives, C. 703, p. 63.)

            > > The "felt helmet" to which the warrant refers is a short round hat with brim, a bit like a truncated top hat, over which, from front to back, was fixed a strip of black bearskin. Its overall effect from a distance was to make it look like a "Tarleton" helmet. "White buttons" were made of pewter, and plain, probably domed. The uniform was an adaptation from the uniform of drivers for the Royal Wagon Train, with the adjustment on the cuff - pointed, not flat.

            > > Hope this helps.Ray

            > > To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com

            > > From: ruyourboat@

            > > Date: Fri, 4 Mar 2011 11:46:10 +0000

            > > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Role of french canadians during the war

            > >

            > >

            > >

            > >

            > >

            > >

            > >

            > >

            > >

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            > >

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            > >

            > >

            > >

            > >

            > >

            > >

            > > Hi Ray

            > >

            > >

            > >

            > > Thanks for this post. You tantalisingly talk of havi9ng the same uniform as the Provinical Light Dragoons of Upper Canada...other than blue coats do you have any more detail on these guys (Merritt's troop) please?

            > >

            > >

            > >

            > > Thanks Ru

            > >

            > >

            > >

            > > --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, <ray.hobbs@> wrote:

            > >

            > > >

            > >

            > > > In addition to the Infantry regiments listed by Vic, do not forget the Canadian Light Dragoons

            > >

            > > > (Coleman's Troop), which was raised in Montreal in early 1813, and was stood down in late 1815, early

            > >

            > > > 1816.

            > >

            > > > Although raised by an "anglo", the unit was about 50% French Canadian, and served well in the

            > >

            > > > defence of Upper Canada throughout the war. Several members were captured at Moraviantown, and

            > >

            > > > about half of those captured died in captivity.

            > >

            > > > Unfortunately, because of the almost identical uniforms to the Provincial Light edragoons of Upper

            > >

            > > > Canada, the CLD are often confused with them, even in official records.

            > >

            > > > Coleman raised the unit (and paid for much of their kit himself) by using as his core some troops from

            > >

            > > > the Royal Mounted Veterans - veteran British cavalry troopers who had settled in the Canadas. This

            > >

            > > > gave him a very solid base on which to build.

            > >

            > > > Of interest - after the war, partly because of ongoing political squabbles, Coleman settled in Beleville,

            > >

            > > > Upper Canada, and became a prominent politician in the region. His senior lieutenant, Benjamin

            > >

            > > > Holmes, went on to become a very important Quebec businessman, and one of the founders of the

            > >

            > > > Bank of Montreal.

            > >

            > > > Ain't history grand

            > >

            > > > Ray Hobbs

            > >

            > > > Sometimes a.k.a - as in the Crown Forces Mess, Capt. Coleman.

            > >

            > > >

            > >

            > > >

            > >

            > > >

            > >

            > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            > >

            > > >

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            > >

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            > >

            > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            > >

            >


















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