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Blacks in US service

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  • Victor Suthren
    My understanding is that only the USN during the War of 1812 integrated their ships companies to any degree, but that overall US troops remained segregated
    Message 1 of 9 , Dec 19, 2010
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      My understanding is that only the USN during the War of 1812 integrated
      their ships' companies to any degree, but that overall US troops remained
      segregated until 1943. Is this correct?



      Vic Suthren



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Steve Abolt
      Vic,   Merry Christmas!   For the most part this is true.  However blacks did serve in the army during the War and after, but in very limited numbers. 
      Message 2 of 9 , Dec 19, 2010
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        Vic,
         
        Merry Christmas!
         
        For the most part this is true.  However blacks did serve in the army during the War and after, but in very limited numbers.  There was a black private in the regulars who served at Ft. McHenry.  I would need to check but he was either killed or removed from service when it was discovered he was black. 
         
        In the 7th Infantry Jordan Noble served with distinction at the Battle of New Orleans.  He was a musician.  He continued in US Service all the way to the beginning of the American Civil War.  He was a fixture in New Orleans for years after leading Parades with the drum he played at Chalmette. In 1860 he received a gold medal from Winfield Scott in appreciation of his service during the War of 1812, the Seminole Wars, and the War with Mexico.
         
        His tomb has a bronze plaque memorializing his service to his country. Jordan was originally from GA and had enlisted in the 8th INF in 1812.  He was transferred to the 7th, but am unsure of the date.
         
        Following the war there was a black private who served at Ft. Wayne in Indiana.  However I do not have much information on him.
         
        The largest number of free blacks in one unit were the Battalion of Free Men of Color who also fought at New Orleans.

        Warmest regards,
        S.
         
        --- On Sun, 12/19/10, Victor Suthren <suthren@...> wrote:


        From: Victor Suthren <suthren@...>
        Subject: 1812 Blacks in US service
        To: Warof1812@yahoogroups.com
        Date: Sunday, December 19, 2010, 1:40 PM


         



        My understanding is that only the USN during the War of 1812 integrated
        their ships' companies to any degree, but that overall US troops remained
        segregated until 1943. Is this correct?

        Vic Suthren

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]











        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • usmarine1814
        Just throwing in here I thought there was a regiment, either a recruited in New England or in New York, that had a large percentage (not sure how large) of
        Message 3 of 9 , Dec 20, 2010
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          Just throwing in here

          I thought there was a regiment, either a recruited in New England or in New York, that had a large percentage (not sure how large) of blacks but was noticeable and notable.

          For the Marine Corps the earliest orders from 1798 say not Blacks, "Mullatoes" or Indians were to be recruited. However there are some enlistment descriptions that makes one wonder if those orders were not bent a little when manpower shortages arose.
          ie "Name: Charles Johnson"
          Born: Virginia
          Eyes: Black
          Hair: Black
          Complexion: Dark
          Occupation: farmer"

          Nothing definitive but there are very few references in the USMC records (I have only seen two)to "Black, Black, Dark" as a physical description.

          YHOS
          C Murphy
          USS CON 1812 MG
          USMCHC

          --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, Steve Abolt <sacbg7@...> wrote:
          >
          > Vic,
          >  
          > Merry Christmas!
          >  
          > For the most part this is true.  However blacks did serve in the army during the War and after, but in very limited numbers.  There was a black private in the regulars who served at Ft. McHenry.  I would need to check but he was either killed or removed from service when it was discovered he was black. 
          >  
          > In the 7th Infantry Jordan Noble served with distinction at the Battle of New Orleans.  He was a musician.  He continued in US Service all the way to the beginning of the American Civil War.  He was a fixture in New Orleans for years after leading Parades with the drum he played at Chalmette. In 1860 he received a gold medal from Winfield Scott in appreciation of his service during the War of 1812, the Seminole Wars, and the War with Mexico.
          >  
          > His tomb has a bronze plaque memorializing his service to his country. Jordan was originally from GA and had enlisted in the 8th INF in 1812.  He was transferred to the 7th, but am unsure of the date.
          >  
          > Following the war there was a black private who served at Ft. Wayne in Indiana.  However I do not have much information on him.
          >  
          > The largest number of free blacks in one unit were the Battalion of Free Men of Color who also fought at New Orleans.
          >
          > Warmest regards,
          > S.
          >  
          > --- On Sun, 12/19/10, Victor Suthren <suthren@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          > From: Victor Suthren <suthren@...>
          > Subject: 1812 Blacks in US service
          > To: Warof1812@yahoogroups.com
          > Date: Sunday, December 19, 2010, 1:40 PM
          >
          >
          >  
          >
          >
          >
          > My understanding is that only the USN during the War of 1812 integrated
          > their ships' companies to any degree, but that overall US troops remained
          > segregated until 1943. Is this correct?
          >
          > Vic Suthren
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • ANDREW BATEMAN
          ... ... There was a black private in the regulars who served at Ft. McHenry.  I would need to check but he was either killed or removed from service when it
          Message 4 of 9 , Dec 20, 2010
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            --- On Mon, 12/20/10, Steve Abolt <sacbg7@...> wrote:

            ... There was a black private in the regulars who served at Ft. McHenry.  I would need to check but he was either killed or removed from service when it was discovered he was black. <snip>
             
            Killed when it was discovered he was black?  Harsh.
             
            Andrew Bateman, 41st Foot
             

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Vince Wilding
            If I may suggest: Black Jacks: African American Seamen in the Age of Sail by W. Jeffery Bolster http://amzn.to/eVnixe -- Vince Wilding, AKA Honest Jock Matlow
            Message 5 of 9 , Dec 20, 2010
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              If I may suggest:

              Black Jacks: African American Seamen in the Age of Sail by W. Jeffery
              Bolster

              http://amzn.to/eVnixe

              --
              Vince Wilding, AKA Honest Jock Matlow
              www.HJMatlow.com | www.Mirthalicious.com
              A grandfather is someone with silver in his whiskers and gold in his
              heart.
            • johnjogden@gmail.com
              Discovered ? You would think that this would have been noticed by someone when he was recruited... -- Sent from my Palm Pre On Dec 20, 2010 11:10 AM, ANDREW
              Message 6 of 9 , Dec 20, 2010
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                "Discovered"? You would think that this would have been noticed by someone when he was recruited...



                -- Sent from my Palm Pre
                On Dec 20, 2010 11:10 AM, ANDREW BATEMAN <a_bateman@...> wrote:


                 










                --- On Mon, 12/20/10, Steve Abolt <sacbg7@...> wrote:



                ... There was a black private in the regulars who served at Ft. McHenry.  I would need to check but he was either killed or removed from service when it was discovered he was black. <snip>

                 

                Killed when it was discovered he was black?  Harsh.

                 

                Andrew Bateman, 41st Foot

                 



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                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Steve Abolt
                Andrew,   I can see why you might misconstrue what I said due the wording. Killed because he was black was not what was meant.  But,Sarah has answered the
                Message 7 of 9 , Dec 20, 2010
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                  Andrew,
                   
                  I can see why you might misconstrue what I said due the wording. Killed because he was black was not what was meant.  But,Sarah has answered the question.
                   
                  On a side note there is a persistent legend that the ghost of Pvt. Williams still haunts Ft. McHenry.
                   
                  Merry Christmas

                  S.
                   
                  --- On Mon, 12/20/10, ANDREW BATEMAN <a_bateman@...> wrote:


                  From: ANDREW BATEMAN <a_bateman@...>
                  Subject: Re: 1812 Blacks in US service
                  To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Monday, December 20, 2010, 11:09 AM


                   



                  --- On Mon, 12/20/10, Steve Abolt <sacbg7@...> wrote:

                  ... There was a black private in the regulars who served at Ft. McHenry.  I would need to check but he was either killed or removed from service when it was discovered he was black. <snip>
                   
                  Killed when it was discovered he was black?  Harsh.
                   
                  Andrew Bateman, 41st Foot
                   

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                • Ed
                  Check out Amongst My Best Men: African-Americans and The War of 1812 by Gerry Altoff. While this book concentrates primarily on Blacks serving in the USN,
                  Message 8 of 9 , Dec 21, 2010
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                    Check out "Amongst My Best Men: African-Americans and The War of 1812" by Gerry Altoff. While this book concentrates primarily on Blacks serving in the USN, it also examines their service in the Army and Militia.

                    Ed B.
                  • Tom Hurlbut
                    I think we ve all been the beneficiaries (or victims) of Andrew s dry sense of humour.. I know I laughed out loud! Major Tom _____ From:
                    Message 9 of 9 , Dec 21, 2010
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                      I think we've all been the beneficiaries (or victims) of Andrew's dry sense
                      of humour.. I know I laughed out loud!



                      "Major" Tom



                      _____

                      From: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                      Of Steve Abolt
                      Sent: December 20, 2010 2:01 PM
                      To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: 1812 Blacks in US service





                      Andrew,

                      I can see why you might misconstrue what I said due the wording. Killed
                      because he was black was not what was meant. But,Sarah has answered the
                      question.

                      On a side note there is a persistent legend that the ghost of Pvt. Williams
                      still haunts Ft. McHenry.

                      Merry Christmas

                      S.

                      --- On Mon, 12/20/10, ANDREW BATEMAN <a_bateman@...
                      <mailto:a_bateman%40rogers.com> > wrote:

                      From: ANDREW BATEMAN <a_bateman@... <mailto:a_bateman%40rogers.com> >
                      Subject: Re: 1812 Blacks in US service
                      To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com <mailto:WarOf1812%40yahoogroups.com>
                      Date: Monday, December 20, 2010, 11:09 AM



                      --- On Mon, 12/20/10, Steve Abolt <sacbg7@...
                      <mailto:sacbg7%40yahoo.com> > wrote:

                      ... There was a black private in the regulars who served at Ft. McHenry. I
                      would need to check but he was either killed or removed from service when it
                      was discovered he was black. <snip>

                      Killed when it was discovered he was black? Harsh.

                      Andrew Bateman, 41st Foot


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