Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Dragoon kit

Expand Messages
  • KILTONE@aol.com
    List, Seeking patterns and sutlers to make 6th Enniskilling Dragoon kit for upcoming 200th. General direction to look would be most helpful. Types of arms,
    Message 1 of 4 , Jan 25, 2010
    • 0 Attachment
      List,
      Seeking patterns and sutlers to make 6th Enniskilling Dragoon kit for upcoming 200th. General direction to look would be most helpful. Types of arms, slings, saddle kit etc. Uniform pattern especially the helmet.

      Thank you
      Cheers
      Michael Monahan
      HM's Vth Regt of Foot (Rev War) looking to expand impression to Napoleonic






      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • BritcomHMP@aol.com
      Michael, I assume that as you mention Napoleonic you are aware that British heavy cavalry did not serve in the war of 1812. Yes I know there is one reference
      Message 2 of 4 , Jan 25, 2010
      • 0 Attachment
        Michael, I assume that as you mention 'Napoleonic' you are aware that British heavy cavalry did not serve in the war of 1812. Yes I know there is one reference to that posibility but that is for a single individual, not a unit and it is not a primary source, I have looked into this very closely and I am fairly confident in saying that no member of a British Heavy cavalry unit served in the war of 1812 dressed in that uniform. In fact after researching the account I think it highly likely that the individual who wrote the now lost and untraceable account was an infantryman and probably a deserter who remained in the US post war.

        That said, the helmet has been reproduced in the UK (for the 1st) and costs about $2000, the rest of the kit is all mentioned in various books including last year's British Unigorms of the Mapoleonic Wars which gives a very nice, if basic, run down of unifom, arms, equipment and tack.

        Aye

        Tim








        -----Original Message-----
        From: KILTONE@...
        To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Mon, Jan 25, 2010 6:29 pm
        Subject: 1812 Dragoon kit






        List,
        Seeking patterns and sutlers to make 6th Enniskilling Dragoon kit for upcoming 200th. General direction to look would be most helpful. Types of arms, slings, saddle kit etc. Uniform pattern especially the helmet.

        Thank you
        Cheers
        Michael Monahan
        HM's Vth Regt of Foot (Rev War) looking to expand impression to Napoleonic

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]









        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Ed
        Tim, I m assuming you re talking about Sgt William Sannford and his pack of couriers supposedly being at North Point. Logic would dictate that if they are at
        Message 3 of 4 , Jan 27, 2010
        • 0 Attachment
          Tim,

          I'm assuming you're talking about Sgt William Sannford and his pack of couriers supposedly being at North Point.

          Logic would dictate that if they are at North Point, then they should be at Bladensburg and New Orleans also. Yet they don't seem to be listed anywhere. But then again neither is the 6th West Indies Regt and they are listed as having casualties at Bladensburg.

          The good Sergeant's book is listed as being published in London in 1817, herdly a place for a deserter to find a publisher. An alias, perhaps?

          Cheers,
          Ed

          --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, BritcomHMP@... wrote:
          >
          >
          > Michael, I assume that as you mention 'Napoleonic' you are aware that British heavy cavalry did not serve in the war of 1812. Yes I know there is one reference to that posibility but that is for a single individual, not a unit and it is not a primary source, I have looked into this very closely and I am fairly confident in saying that no member of a British Heavy cavalry unit served in the war of 1812 dressed in that uniform. In fact after researching the account I think it highly likely that the individual who wrote the now lost and untraceable account was an infantryman and probably a deserter who remained in the US post war.
          >
        • BritcomHMP@aol.com
          Right you are Ed! I had a long exchange about this about a year ago and went into it in great detail and was sent the quote from the book that mentions the
          Message 4 of 4 , Jan 27, 2010
          • 0 Attachment
            Right you are Ed!
            I had a long exchange about this about a year ago and went into it in great
            detail and was sent the quote from the book that mentions the Sanford
            account.

            There are many problems here, firstly the reference of the Sanford book
            mentions that it was published in 1817, but no one who quotes the reference
            has ever seen the Sanford book, to my knowledge no library or museum has a
            copy of the book in their stacks, this includes the Williams Research Center
            of THNOC, the Anne S K Brown Collection and the British Library. I had
            friends in the museum service both in the US and UK check the title, author and
            publication date in the national museum data bases and nothing at all came
            up. My take on this is that, if the account actually existed, it was never
            actually published. Of course we cannot be sure that IF the book ever did
            exist in published form it was published in London 'England'!

            My reason for speculating that the individual was a deserter (IF he existed
            and IF he wrote an account) is that the local historian who quotes the
            book seems to say that Sanford took up residence in Maryland after the war of
            1812; certainly there were some desertions during the campaign, if he
            didn't desert it is certainly curious that he ends up a well known member of the
            community where the army of which he was once a membe, was merrily raiding
            and burning property.

            On the regiment; here I think that 2+2 may have been made to add up to 5.
            In the quoted account the regiment is referred to as the 'Enniskillen', as
            you know there are two ways in which this name of the famous Irish town can
            be spelt, as above and 'Inniskilling', those these two spellings now seem
            to be almost interchangeable at the time they were not, and were not for a
            reason. the former spelling is the regimental title of the 27th Foot, and
            the second that of the 6th Dragoons. Some people seem to have taken the
            statement that Sanford was a courier to mean that he was a cavalryman which,
            though logical, is an enormous leap of faith and in my opinion, a mistake.
            While the occasional cavalryman was detached to act as a courier to a
            general officer there is no record of this being the case with Ross, indeed the
            Glieg account (which is also quoted at times) specifically states that it
            was the lack of cavalry that caused Ross to grab men from wherever he could
            get them to act a couriers. Also the Sanford account of the death of Ross
            does not match with the official reports of his death and, to me at least,
            reads like something that was made up by someone who only got half the
            story. Certainly in parts it sounds like the gunfight at the OK coral!

            There is no account, or mention in any of the contemporary histories, that
            any British cavalry was with Ross, not only that there is no account in
            regimental histories or records of any of the Inniskillings being in the war
            of 1812 in any capacity whatsoever. The idea that a party of British heavy
            cavalry was on detached duty in Chesapeake region is flat out mistaken, the
            idea that a sergeant and a few troopers would be sent off without an
            officer to serve on Ross' staff is just absurd in the context of the period. Is
            it possible that an ex cavalryman now serving in the infantry was pressed
            into service as a courier? Yes, but the idea that he, or anyone else was
            dressed in heavy cavalry uniform doesn't work; it's just plain wrong, sorry.

            Aye

            Tim



            In a message dated 1/27/2010 3:06:57 PM Central Standard Time,
            rmarine1812@... writes:

            Tim,

            I'm assuming you're talking about Sgt William Sannford and his pack of
            couriers supposedly being at North Point.

            Logic would dictate that if they are at North Point, then they should be
            at Bladensburg and New Orleans also. Yet they don't seem to be listed
            anywhere. But then again neither is the 6th West Indies Regt and they are listed
            as having casualties at Bladensburg.

            The good Sergeant's book is listed as being published in London in 1817,
            herdly a place for a deserter to find a publisher. An alias, perhaps?

            Cheers,
            Ed





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.