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Re: 1812 Old Fort York's Bicentennial Project - New Visitor's Centre design chosen

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  • Craig Williams
    Unless I ve totally misunderstood what I see in this artist s concept (images where scale is skewed to the heroic, and details of what s actually there are
    Message 1 of 13 , Dec 21, 2009
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      Unless I've totally misunderstood what I see in this "artist's
      concept" (images where scale is skewed to the heroic, and details of
      what's actually there are blurred), in this... "expression" of the
      architect's concept (read: attempt to get his work in AD magazine)
      we're actually seeing that the building is proposed to be
      constructed under the Gardiner ( okay, I like the use of dead space
      but... ) on the north side, against the original shoreline, running
      from the current parking lot area to the west and down quite some
      distance to what is now the front gate on the east of the same lot.
      It shows a "vista hallway" overlooking the same said parking lot, or
      is that going away? If it is, where do visitors park? If not, why are
      they featuring the parking lot?
      I am also not impressed by the south side "shutter" appearance. Looks
      like they're trying to copy Moriyama's work on the War Museum (a
      topic for another rant, but suffice it say I think that was a bad
      idea, too).
      Top that off with billboard-like images erected above the hallway and
      it's just something else to get filthy and ugly and tagged with
      graffiti.

      Craig Williams

      On 21-Dec-09, at 10:45 PM, Terry wrote:

      >
      > Craig Williams wrote:
      >
      > I don't like it.
      >
      > Typical of what passes for architecture in Toronto these days, it is
      > about the building not the asset it represents.
      >
      > Craig Williams
      >
      > I have to agree with you Craig. I find it kind of disturbing that
      > the entrance is via under a major highway that drops the occasional
      > piece of concrete. The flip up doors remind me of an old garage
      > door I used to have. Unfortunately the drawings don't really show
      > more but from what I saw it looks strange.
      > What I would have done is put the visitors center at the top of the
      > road. Make the grave parking lot as a grass field representing the
      > killing zone facing the fort entrance. Put the parking lot on the
      > other side of the Gardiner Expressway. With this layout the visitor
      > goes through the visitor center then walks up a path to the
      > entrance of the fort and can therefore get an understanding of it's
      > defenses as you approach it.
      >
      > Regards,
      >
      > Terry
      >
      >
      >



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Craig Williams
      OK... I don t know how this happened as it was a private post to Terry, (sorry Terry, I have apparently reposted your private post to me although I don t know
      Message 2 of 13 , Dec 21, 2009
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        OK... I don't know how this happened as it was a private post to
        Terry, (sorry Terry, I have apparently reposted your private post to
        me although I don't know how)
        Anyway, it's no secret I don't like the design, now you know why.

        Craig
        On 22-Dec-09, at 1:03 AM, Craig Williams wrote:

        > Unless I've totally misunderstood what I see in this "artist's
        > concept" (images where scale is skewed to the heroic, and details of
        > what's actually there are blurred), in this... "expression" of the
        > architect's concept (read: attempt to get his work in AD magazine)
        > we're actually seeing that the building is proposed to be
        > constructed under the Gardiner ( okay, I like the use of dead space
        > but... ) on the north side, against the original shoreline, running
        > from the current parking lot area to the west and down quite some
        > distance to what is now the front gate on the east of the same lot.
        > It shows a "vista hallway" overlooking the same said parking lot, or
        > is that going away? If it is, where do visitors park? If not, why are
        > they featuring the parking lot?
        > I am also not impressed by the south side "shutter" appearance. Looks
        > like they're trying to copy Moriyama's work on the War Museum (a
        > topic for another rant, but suffice it say I think that was a bad
        > idea, too).
        > Top that off with billboard-like images erected above the hallway and
        > it's just something else to get filthy and ugly and tagged with
        > graffiti.
        >
        > Craig Williams
        >
        > On 21-Dec-09, at 10:45 PM, Terry wrote:
        >
        >>
        >> Craig Williams wrote:
        >>
        >> I don't like it.
        >>
        >> Typical of what passes for architecture in Toronto these days, it is
        >> about the building not the asset it represents.
        >>
        >> Craig Williams
        >>
        >> I have to agree with you Craig. I find it kind of disturbing that
        >> the entrance is via under a major highway that drops the occasional
        >> piece of concrete. The flip up doors remind me of an old garage
        >> door I used to have. Unfortunately the drawings don't really show
        >> more but from what I saw it looks strange.
        >> What I would have done is put the visitors center at the top of the
        >> road. Make the grave parking lot as a grass field representing the
        >> killing zone facing the fort entrance. Put the parking lot on the
        >> other side of the Gardiner Expressway. With this layout the visitor
        >> goes through the visitor center then walks up a path to the
        >> entrance of the fort and can therefore get an understanding of it's
        >> defenses as you approach it.
        >>
        >> Regards,
        >>
        >> Terry
        >>
        >>
        >>
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
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      • biggest_plume
        Toronto needs Managing Historic Sites for Dummies ! Drums
        Message 3 of 13 , Dec 22, 2009
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          Toronto needs "Managing Historic Sites for Dummies"!
          "Drums"

          --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, Craig Williams <sgtwarner@...> wrote:
          >
          > OK... I don't know how this happened as it was a private post to
          > Terry, (sorry Terry, I have apparently reposted your private post to
          > me although I don't know how)
          > Anyway, it's no secret I don't like the design, now you know why.
          >
          > Craig
          > On 22-Dec-09, at 1:03 AM, Craig Williams wrote:
          >
          > > Unless I've totally misunderstood what I see in this "artist's
          > > concept" (images where scale is skewed to the heroic, and details of
          > > what's actually there are blurred), in this... "expression" of the
          > > architect's concept (read: attempt to get his work in AD magazine)
          > > we're actually seeing that the building is proposed to be
          > > constructed under the Gardiner ( okay, I like the use of dead space
          > > but... ) on the north side, against the original shoreline, running
          > > from the current parking lot area to the west and down quite some
          > > distance to what is now the front gate on the east of the same lot.
          > > It shows a "vista hallway" overlooking the same said parking lot, or
          > > is that going away? If it is, where do visitors park? If not, why are
          > > they featuring the parking lot?
          > > I am also not impressed by the south side "shutter" appearance. Looks
          > > like they're trying to copy Moriyama's work on the War Museum (a
          > > topic for another rant, but suffice it say I think that was a bad
          > > idea, too).
          > > Top that off with billboard-like images erected above the hallway and
          > > it's just something else to get filthy and ugly and tagged with
          > > graffiti.
          > >
          > > Craig Williams
          > >
          > > On 21-Dec-09, at 10:45 PM, Terry wrote:
          > >
          > >>
          > >> Craig Williams wrote:
          > >>
          > >> I don't like it.
          > >>
          > >> Typical of what passes for architecture in Toronto these days, it is
          > >> about the building not the asset it represents.
          > >>
          > >> Craig Williams
          > >>
          > >> I have to agree with you Craig. I find it kind of disturbing that
          > >> the entrance is via under a major highway that drops the occasional
          > >> piece of concrete. The flip up doors remind me of an old garage
          > >> door I used to have. Unfortunately the drawings don't really show
          > >> more but from what I saw it looks strange.
          > >> What I would have done is put the visitors center at the top of the
          > >> road. Make the grave parking lot as a grass field representing the
          > >> killing zone facing the fort entrance. Put the parking lot on the
          > >> other side of the Gardiner Expressway. With this layout the visitor
          > >> goes through the visitor center then walks up a path to the
          > >> entrance of the fort and can therefore get an understanding of it's
          > >> defenses as you approach it.
          > >>
          > >> Regards,
          > >>
          > >> Terry
          > >>
          > >>
          > >>
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > > ------------------------------------
          > >
          > > War of 1812 Living History:
          > > A wide-ranging information exchange
          > > for all participants and supporters
          > >
          > >
          > > Unit Contact information for North America:
          > > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
          > > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
          > > American Forces Unit Listing
          > > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
          > >
          > > WAR OF 1812 EVENTS LIST:
          > > http://royal.scots.tripod.com/warof1812eventslistYahoo! Groups
          > > Links
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
        • spikeyj
          Have to agree with Craig. I m not impressed. The design looks like it would be a great extension to the Science Centre, but not so much for an 1812 site. And
          Message 4 of 13 , Dec 23, 2009
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            Have to agree with Craig. I'm not impressed.

            The design looks like it would be a great extension to the
            Science Centre, but not so much for an 1812 site.

            And it raises a lot of questions for me about future
            funding for the maintenance and staffing of a big new
            extension to the Fort's property, not just for the
            bicentennial, but for the decades to follow.

            Then there's the question of how you're going to get
            tourists to walk all the way from the parking lots
            (wherever they're going to be) to the Fort itself, when
            they used to complain about how long the walk was when the
            parking lot was only 50 feet from the front gates.

            And the question of how well this project will be
            integrated with things like that flying bike bridge
            announced for the west end of the Common a few months ago.

            I wonder how many people will visit the new building, see
            all they can see there, and then not bother making the trek
            to see the old-fashioned historical site on the other side
            of the wall.

            Spike Y Jones
          • jbwhittaker
            I would have to agree after seeing the canker that was attached to the Royal Ontario Museum. Regards, Bruce Whittaker ... Toronto needs Managing Historic
            Message 5 of 13 , Dec 23, 2009
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              I would have to agree after seeing the canker that was attached to the Royal Ontario Museum.
              Regards,
              Bruce Whittaker

              --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "biggest_plume" <drums1812@...> wrote:

              Toronto needs "Managing Historic Sites for Dummies"!
              "Drums"
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