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Re: War of 1812 Bicentennial activities for 2012-2015

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  • glenn stott
    Dear List, It is very obvious that an 1812 Bicentennial will not be, in the eyes of the Government, an accurate representation of the War, but a large,
    Message 1 of 28 , Dec 12, 2009
    • 0 Attachment
      Dear List,
      It is very obvious that an 1812 Bicentennial will not be, in the eyes of the
      Government, an accurate representation of the War, but a large, bombastic,
      fun for the whole family affair designed to appeal to all. Sort of leaves
      out historic accuracy, small but significant events, and small but important
      sites. I am beginning to sound very bitter. Sorry for that.

      Glenn, Royal Scot Lights
    • Jack reimer
      Glenn, It has been so for longer than time and politics can record. Be not dismayed. As long as we happy few keep these events and memories alive, then the
      Message 2 of 28 , Dec 12, 2009
      • 0 Attachment
        Glenn,

        It has been so for longer than time and politics can record. Be not dismayed. As long as we happy few keep these events and memories alive, then the places and deeds done will not die. This is especially true for our American Civil War in the lower 48. Endeavor to persevere. More will support you than you can imagine.\

        Jack
        Royal Scots, Centre Coy


        ----- Original Message -----
        From: glenn stott<mailto:gstott@...>
        To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com<mailto:WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Saturday, December 12, 2009 12:59 PM
        Subject: Re: War of 1812 Bicentennial activities for 2012-2015



        Dear List,
        It is very obvious that an 1812 Bicentennial will not be, in the eyes of the
        Government, an accurate representation of the War, but a large, bombastic,
        fun for the whole family affair designed to appeal to all. Sort of leaves
        out historic accuracy, small but significant events, and small but important
        sites. I am beginning to sound very bitter. Sorry for that.

        Glenn, Royal Scot Lights





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • ronaldjdale@netscape.net
        I think that London-Middlesex would be more properly linked with Essex, Chatham-Kent. The Battle of the Thames site is represented in the Essex, Chatham-Kent
        Message 3 of 28 , Dec 12, 2009
        • 0 Attachment
          I think that London-Middlesex would be more properly linked with Essex, Chatham-Kent. The Battle of the Thames site is represented in the Essex, Chatham-Kent grouping. Among other things, the development of a spectacular park dedicated to Tecumseh and the Battle of the Thames is part of their plan.

          Niagara also includes Hamilton, Haldimand, Norfolk and Brant.

          Ron


          -----Original Message-----
          From: glenn stott <gstott@...>
          To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Sat, Dec 12, 2009 12:55 pm
          Subject: Re: War of 1812 Bicentennial activities for 2012-2015




          Dear Ray,
          As far as Middlesex-Londomn is concerned, we aren't on the Government Map
          despite being unimaginatively linked to Niagara. Ask Mark about his
          proposed Battle of Moraviantown. Only the larger, or vociferous centres got
          any attention. Sour grapes I guess.

          Glenn Stott, Royal Scots- Lights
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Ray Hobbs" <ray.hobbs@...>
          To: <warof1812@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Saturday, December 12, 2009 11:31 AM
          Subject: RE: War of 1812 Bicentennial activities for 2012-2015

          List:
          Interesting what is left out of this list - the Upper Thames, Norfolk, the
          Big Creek and the Grand River, the Head of the Lake. All of these were
          absolutely crucial geographical features during the War. I wonder where they
          fit in.
          Just musing
          Yrs etc.
          Ray H.

          To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
          From: davidbrunelle@...
          Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 09:52:54 -0500
          Subject: War of 1812 Bicentennial activities for 2012-2015

          Hi Missy,

          The Ministry of Tourism has divided the province into six regions who are
          responsible for the development of capital and special event activities for
          their regions. The province also has many provincial initiatives that they
          will be planning for the bicentennial including a Great Lakes Tall Ship Tour
          and sponsoring one significant event in each region each year over the three
          years of the celebrations/commemorations. In total throughout the province
          there is over 80 million dollars in proposed projects and activities hoping
          to be accomplished depending on financial support. The best way to find out
          what is happening in your region or other regions across the province is to
          contact the representative for each region. They are:

          Niagara:

          Vince Del Buono vdb1812@...

          Deb Whitehouse debwhite@...

          Windsor, Chatham-Kent:

          Sandra Bradt, Windsor, sbradt@...

          Joy Sim, Chatham-Kent, JoySim@...

          Sault Ste Marie-Algoma:

          Carol Caputo, Algoma, carol@...

          Kathy Fisher, Sault Ste Marie, k.fisher@...

          St. Lawrence:

          Jan Bonhomme, allianceadvantage@...

          Pat Macdonald, pat.macdonald@...

          Southern Georgian Bay:

          David Brunelle, davidbrunelle@...

          Toronto:

          Sandra Shaul, sshaul@...

          If you have any other questions please feel free to contact me anytime.

          David J. Brunelle

          Project Director

          Southern Georgian Bay War of 1812 Bicentennial Committee

          ----- Original Message -----

          From: tom4141fournier

          To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com

          Sent: Saturday, December 12, 2009 7:26 AM

          Subject: [Bulk] Re: War of 1812 Bicentennial activities for 2012-2015

          Hi Missy

          I think what you are looking for is still largely in development.

          There is this "official website" but I do not think they have begun to
          populate the calendars yet:

          http://www.visit1812.com/

          You might also want to try:

          http://www.warof1812.ca/

          Tom Fournier

          41st Regiment of Foot

          www.fortyfirst.org

          --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "dumbartonhouse" <missygroppel@...> wrote:

          >

          >

          > Hello, I just joined the list, primarily to learn of any plans for War

          > of 1812 Bicentennial activities (in searching through messages, nothing

          > popped out at me). In August 1815, the second resident of Dumbarton

          > House (then known as Cedar Hill), Charles Carroll, was called upon by

          > the President's lady, Dolley Madison, to bring a cart and collect her

          > from the President's House as the British approached; Dumbarton House

          > was her first stop to safety out of the city. We are participating in

          > various meetings with other DC metro area War of 1812 sites to

          > coordinate Bicentiennial events for 2012-2015. Are there events on the

          > reenactment calendars (or other related calendars) for Bicentennial

          > years at this time that you can share with me, please? Thanks.

          >

          > Also, just taking advantage of the opportunity for your attention:

          >

          > Volunteer Docents sought for Federal-era (1790s-1820s) Dumbarton House

          > in DC. Dumbarton House, a Federal period historic house museum in

          > Georgetown, Washington, DC, is currently recruiting dedicated volunteers

          > to bring history to life through a variety of opportunities. Dumbarton

          > House, headquarters of The National Society of The Colonial Dames of

          > America, offers volunteers and visitors an opportunity to enhance their

          > appreciation of early American history and strives to inform and educate

          > the public about life in Washington during the early days of the

          > Republic (circa 1800) and about Federal period decorative arts and

          > architecture.

          >

          > BENEFITS

          > -complimentary individual museum membership (includes 10% discount on

          > Gift Shop purchases, invitations to private Museum events and programs,

          > discounts on admission to public programs, monthly e-news and bi-annual

          > Events Calendar, and two guest passes for public tours);

          > -ongoing monthly enrichment programs featuring expert lectures or field

          > visits to other sites of interest;

          > -free parking;

          > -annual social events, including the annual Appreciation Dinner;

          > -monthly newsletter for museum volunteers and staff, What's New on Q?;

          > and

          > -access to the Dumbarton House research library.

          >

          >

          > DOCENTS: Dumbarton House recruits volunteers who enjoy working with the

          > public and assisting visitors, to share the Museum¡¦s history and

          > collection with the general public. Docents greet visitors to the Museum

          > and provide tours of the house and its collection of Federal period

          > decorative arts. Trained in the social history and decorative arts of

          > the early 19th century, Docents provide a vital link between the history

          > of the house and its visitors. Docents are expected to commit 2 weekdays

          > (Tuesday-Friday) or 1 weekend day (Saturday-Sunday) per month

          > (10:30am-2:30pm). Extensive training and ongoing enrichment is provided

          > for all Docents. Docents may also choose to volunteer for Group Tours

          > and public programs. Training for new Docents is scheduled for the

          > winter 2010.

          >

          > FOR MORE INFORMATION AND TO APPLY: Volunteer Information Sessions are

          > scheduled December 15, 2009 at 6pm and January 12, 2010 at 6:30pm.

          > Please email Education@...

          > <mailto:Education@...> or call 202-272-2448 ext. 222 for

          > application materials. For more information about Dumbarton House,

          > please visit www.DumbartonHouse.org.

          >

          > Melissa "Missy" Hoggan Groppel

          >

          > Marketing & Events Manager

          >

          > Dumbarton House

          >

          > Headquarters, The National Society of The Colonial Dames of America

          >

          > 2715 Q Street NW â- Washington, DC 20007

          >

          > phone: 202-337-2288 x230 â- fax: 202-337-0348

          >

          > MissyGroppel@... <mailto:MissyGroppel@...>

          > â- DumbartonHouse.org <http://www.dumbartonhouse.org/>

          >

          >

          >

          > Current Exhibition through June 12, 2010: Fran, Have You Supplied the

          > Table? Foods, Service, & Etiquette in the Federal Era, showcasing

          > dining traditions in the context of preparation and presentation as

          > discovered through a unique collection of silver, porcelain, serving

          > wares, and letters.

          >

          >

          >

          > Find, follow, friend, or fan Dumbarton House at

          > blogspot/dumbartonhouse.com, facebook.com, or

          > twitter.com/dumbartonhouse!

          >

          >

          >

          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

          >

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

          ------------------------------------

          War of 1812 Living History:
          A wide-ranging information exchange
          for all participants and supporters

          Unit Contact information for North America:
          Crown Forces Unit Listing:
          http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
          American Forces Unit Listing
          http://usforces1812.tripod.com

          WAR OF 1812 EVENTS LIST:
          http://royal.scots.tripod.com/warof1812eventslistYahoo! Groups Links







          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • glenn stott
          In the eyes of the Government ( I am being bitter) a spectacular park, to be appropriate would have to include waterslides, a theme park, amusement rides etc.
          Message 4 of 28 , Dec 12, 2009
          • 0 Attachment
            In the eyes of the Government ( I am being bitter) a spectacular park, to be appropriate would have to include waterslides, a theme park, amusement rides etc. and oh yes some mention of Tecumseh, but also include a "spectacular" government plaque.
            Ron , also the reason for there not being a separate section which includes Norfolk, Brant, Elgin, and Middlesex is that we were basically ignored when the organizers divided up the pie ( the funds). We were included with Niagara as part of ... oh, we forgot about the London District... oh dear what shall we do with them.
            Granted, no major battles occurred in these regions other than the Burning of Dover Mills, the raids on Port Talbot, Marauder incursions along the Thames valley, the Battle of Longwoods, McArthur's attack, as well as innumerable skirmishes... but to the residents of this region, they were significant to their lives.
            I recognize that for whatever reason, our area was ignored, and not necessarily the fault of anyone other than ourselves. Nevertheless, decisions were and are made without much consultation. The majority of funds appear to be going to sites already established and reasonably prosperous from a tourism view. It would have been advisable to have explored and indeed encouraged other, smaller but significant sites to develop appropriate projects which would have ensured a future role in tourism related to the War of 1812-14. It doesn't appear to be going to happen. We will have the same old sites... York, Niagara, Wasaga Beach??!!!, etc. etc. But we could have had... Moraviantown, Longwoods, Burford, Normandale, Port dover, Fishers' Glen, Port Talbot, Tecumseh Park, etc. etc.

            Glenn, Royal Lights

            Glenn, royal lights
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: ronaldjdale@...
            To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Saturday, December 12, 2009 1:41 PM
            Subject: Re: War of 1812 Bicentennial activities for 2012-2015




            I think that London-Middlesex would be more properly linked with Essex, Chatham-Kent. The Battle of the Thames site is represented in the Essex, Chatham-Kent grouping. Among other things, the development of a spectacular park dedicated to Tecumseh and the Battle of the Thames is part of their plan.

            Niagara also includes Hamilton, Haldimand, Norfolk and Brant.

            Ron

            -----Original Message-----
            From: glenn stott <gstott@...>
            To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Sat, Dec 12, 2009 12:55 pm
            Subject: Re: War of 1812 Bicentennial activities for 2012-2015

            Dear Ray,
            As far as Middlesex-Londomn is concerned, we aren't on the Government Map
            despite being unimaginatively linked to Niagara. Ask Mark about his
            proposed Battle of Moraviantown. Only the larger, or vociferous centres got
            any attention. Sour grapes I guess.

            Glenn Stott, Royal Scots- Lights
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Ray Hobbs" <ray.hobbs@...>
            To: <warof1812@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Saturday, December 12, 2009 11:31 AM
            Subject: RE: War of 1812 Bicentennial activities for 2012-2015

            List:
            Interesting what is left out of this list - the Upper Thames, Norfolk, the
            Big Creek and the Grand River, the Head of the Lake. All of these were
            absolutely crucial geographical features during the War. I wonder where they
            fit in.
            Just musing
            Yrs etc.
            Ray H.

            To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
            From: davidbrunelle@...
            Date: Sat, 12 Dec 2009 09:52:54 -0500
            Subject: War of 1812 Bicentennial activities for 2012-2015

            Hi Missy,

            The Ministry of Tourism has divided the province into six regions who are
            responsible for the development of capital and special event activities for
            their regions. The province also has many provincial initiatives that they
            will be planning for the bicentennial including a Great Lakes Tall Ship Tour
            and sponsoring one significant event in each region each year over the three
            years of the celebrations/commemorations. In total throughout the province
            there is over 80 million dollars in proposed projects and activities hoping
            to be accomplished depending on financial support. The best way to find out
            what is happening in your region or other regions across the province is to
            contact the representative for each region. They are:

            Niagara:

            Vince Del Buono vdb1812@...

            Deb Whitehouse debwhite@...

            Windsor, Chatham-Kent:

            Sandra Bradt, Windsor, sbradt@...

            Joy Sim, Chatham-Kent, JoySim@...

            Sault Ste Marie-Algoma:

            Carol Caputo, Algoma, carol@...

            Kathy Fisher, Sault Ste Marie, k.fisher@...

            St. Lawrence:

            Jan Bonhomme, allianceadvantage@...

            Pat Macdonald, pat.macdonald@...

            Southern Georgian Bay:

            David Brunelle, davidbrunelle@...

            Toronto:

            Sandra Shaul, sshaul@...

            If you have any other questions please feel free to contact me anytime.

            David J. Brunelle

            Project Director

            Southern Georgian Bay War of 1812 Bicentennial Committee

            ----- Original Message -----

            From: tom4141fournier

            To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com

            Sent: Saturday, December 12, 2009 7:26 AM

            Subject: [Bulk] Re: War of 1812 Bicentennial activities for 2012-2015

            Hi Missy

            I think what you are looking for is still largely in development.

            There is this "official website" but I do not think they have begun to
            populate the calendars yet:

            http://www.visit1812.com/

            You might also want to try:

            http://www.warof1812.ca/

            Tom Fournier

            41st Regiment of Foot

            www.fortyfirst.org

            --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "dumbartonhouse" <missygroppel@...> wrote:

            >

            >

            > Hello, I just joined the list, primarily to learn of any plans for War

            > of 1812 Bicentennial activities (in searching through messages, nothing

            > popped out at me). In August 1815, the second resident of Dumbarton

            > House (then known as Cedar Hill), Charles Carroll, was called upon by

            > the President's lady, Dolley Madison, to bring a cart and collect her

            > from the President's House as the British approached; Dumbarton House

            > was her first stop to safety out of the city. We are participating in

            > various meetings with other DC metro area War of 1812 sites to

            > coordinate Bicentiennial events for 2012-2015. Are there events on the

            > reenactment calendars (or other related calendars) for Bicentennial

            > years at this time that you can share with me, please? Thanks.

            >

            > Also, just taking advantage of the opportunity for your attention:

            >

            > Volunteer Docents sought for Federal-era (1790s-1820s) Dumbarton House

            > in DC. Dumbarton House, a Federal period historic house museum in

            > Georgetown, Washington, DC, is currently recruiting dedicated volunteers

            > to bring history to life through a variety of opportunities. Dumbarton

            > House, headquarters of The National Society of The Colonial Dames of

            > America, offers volunteers and visitors an opportunity to enhance their

            > appreciation of early American history and strives to inform and educate

            > the public about life in Washington during the early days of the

            > Republic (circa 1800) and about Federal period decorative arts and

            > architecture.

            >

            > BENEFITS

            > -complimentary individual museum membership (includes 10% discount on

            > Gift Shop purchases, invitations to private Museum events and programs,

            > discounts on admission to public programs, monthly e-news and bi-annual

            > Events Calendar, and two guest passes for public tours);

            > -ongoing monthly enrichment programs featuring expert lectures or field

            > visits to other sites of interest;

            > -free parking;

            > -annual social events, including the annual Appreciation Dinner;

            > -monthly newsletter for museum volunteers and staff, What's New on Q?;

            > and

            > -access to the Dumbarton House research library.

            >

            >

            > DOCENTS: Dumbarton House recruits volunteers who enjoy working with the

            > public and assisting visitors, to share the Museum¡¦s history and

            > collection with the general public. Docents greet visitors to the Museum

            > and provide tours of the house and its collection of Federal period

            > decorative arts. Trained in the social history and decorative arts of

            > the early 19th century, Docents provide a vital link between the history

            > of the house and its visitors. Docents are expected to commit 2 weekdays

            > (Tuesday-Friday) or 1 weekend day (Saturday-Sunday) per month

            > (10:30am-2:30pm). Extensive training and ongoing enrichment is provided

            > for all Docents. Docents may also choose to volunteer for Group Tours

            > and public programs. Training for new Docents is scheduled for the

            > winter 2010.

            >

            > FOR MORE INFORMATION AND TO APPLY: Volunteer Information Sessions are

            > scheduled December 15, 2009 at 6pm and January 12, 2010 at 6:30pm.

            > Please email Education@...

            > <mailto:Education@...> or call 202-272-2448 ext. 222 for

            > application materials. For more information about Dumbarton House,

            > please visit www.DumbartonHouse.org.

            >

            > Melissa "Missy" Hoggan Groppel

            >

            > Marketing & Events Manager

            >

            > Dumbarton House

            >

            > Headquarters, The National Society of The Colonial Dames of America

            >

            > 2715 Q Street NW â- Washington, DC 20007

            >

            > phone: 202-337-2288 x230 â- fax: 202-337-0348

            >

            > MissyGroppel@... <mailto:MissyGroppel@...>

            > â- DumbartonHouse.org <http://www.dumbartonhouse.org/>

            >

            >

            >

            > Current Exhibition through June 12, 2010: Fran, Have You Supplied the

            > Table? Foods, Service, & Etiquette in the Federal Era, showcasing

            > dining traditions in the context of preparation and presentation as

            > discovered through a unique collection of silver, porcelain, serving

            > wares, and letters.

            >

            >

            >

            > Find, follow, friend, or fan Dumbarton House at

            > blogspot/dumbartonhouse.com, facebook.com, or

            > twitter.com/dumbartonhouse!

            >

            >

            >

            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            >

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

            ------------------------------------

            War of 1812 Living History:
            A wide-ranging information exchange
            for all participants and supporters

            Unit Contact information for North America:
            Crown Forces Unit Listing:
            http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
            American Forces Unit Listing
            http://usforces1812.tripod.com

            WAR OF 1812 EVENTS LIST:
            http://royal.scots.tripod.com/warof1812eventslistYahoo! Groups Links

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • larrylozon
            Glenn: I must agree with you, although the War of 1812 was fought in Southwestern Ontario our Government has seen fit to fund Central and Eastern Ontario and
            Message 5 of 28 , Dec 12, 2009
            • 0 Attachment
              Glenn:

              I must agree with you, although the War of 1812 was fought in Southwestern Ontario our Government has seen fit to fund Central and Eastern Ontario and the Niagara Peninsula, ignoring Windsor/Detroit, Sandwich, Fort Malden, the McCrae House, the Battle of the Thames, etc. (for our American Re-enactors our Provincial Ontario government is in Toronto and our National Canadian government is in Ottawa)

              (am I being bitter)


              Yrs:
              L2


              --- Glenn Stott wrote:

              In the eyes of the Government ( I am being bitter) a spectacular park, to be appropriate would have to include waterslides, a theme park, amusement rides etc. and oh yes some mention of Tecumseh, but also include a "spectacular" government plaque.

              Ron , also the reason for there not being a separate section which includes Norfolk, Brant, Elgin, and Middlesex is that we were basically ignored when the organizers divided up the pie ( the funds). We were included with Niagara as part of ... oh, we forgot about the London District... oh dear what shall we do with them.

              Granted, no major battles occurred in these regions other than the Burning of Dover Mills, the raids on Port Talbot, Marauder incursions along the Thames valley, the Battle of Longwoods, McArthur's attack, as well as innumerable skirmishes... but to the residents of this region, they were significant to their lives.

              I recognize that for whatever reason, our area was ignored, and not necessarily the fault of anyone other than ourselves. Nevertheless, decisions were and are made without much consultation. The majority of funds appear to be going to sites already established and reasonably prosperous from a tourism view. It would have been advisable to have explored and indeed encouraged other, smaller but significant sites to develop appropriate projects which would have ensured a future role in tourism related to the War of 1812-14. It doesn't appear to be going to happen. We will have the same old sites... York, Niagara, Wasaga Beach??!!!, etc. etc. But we could have had... Moraviantown, Longwoods, Burford, Normandale, Port dover, Fishers' Glen, Port Talbot, Tecumseh Park, etc. etc.

              > Glenn, Royal Lights
            • DAVID BRUNELLE
              Hi Glen and Everyone, I have spoken with Chris Mc Kay regarding the meeting your region had with Towa Beer and I think the wrong message has been conveyed from
              Message 6 of 28 , Dec 12, 2009
              • 0 Attachment
                Hi Glen and Everyone,

                I have spoken with Chris Mc Kay regarding the meeting your region had with Towa Beer and I think the wrong message has been conveyed from the province to your region. The province does not dictate what happens in your region or which events get funding big or small. The regional representatives have the final say in what goes on in your region and anyone who wishes to be part of the process just has to step forward and inquire. Speaking solely for the Georgian Bay region our mandate it to have a War of 1812 activity, special event, capital project., period pie baking contest, etc. in every community over the three years whether big or small. If someone or group has an idea they would like to bring forth and has the means to accomplish it our region will support it and provincial money (when and if it comes) will be decided by our regional representatives and not the Province.
                The province goal is to support one significant event in each region, each year over the three years of the bicentennial. They do not decide which events will be significant events the regional representatives do. Also just because the province is going to support one significant event each year in each region does not mean they are not going to support other events in that region during that year. They will be and that also in decided by your regional representatives.
                The Southern Georgian Bay region has big and small events planned over the three years and they will all received as much attention and dedication as any large event or capital project would. I and our regional core committee will make sure of this. From a 2.5 million dollar visitor centre being constructed at Nancy Island Historic site to our War of 1812 Veterans Grave Marker Rededication project and everything in between, each initiative will receive its day in the spotlight.
                Before everyone gets discouraged and bogged down in the politics, being on the inside and in the know I am offering my knowledge and services to help direct you to the right people and guide you to make sure your projects and initiatives do not fall to the wayside. Please feel free to contact me anytime with your direct questions on or off line.

                Take Care!

                David J. Brunelle
                Project Director
                Southern Georgian Bay Region
                War of 1812 Bicentennial Committee




                ----- Original Message -----
                From: glenn stott
                To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Saturday, December 12, 2009 12:59 PM
                Subject: [Bulk] Re: War of 1812 Bicentennial activities for 2012-2015



                Dear List,
                It is very obvious that an 1812 Bicentennial will not be, in the eyes of the
                Government, an accurate representation of the War, but a large, bombastic,
                fun for the whole family affair designed to appeal to all. Sort of leaves
                out historic accuracy, small but significant events, and small but important
                sites. I am beginning to sound very bitter. Sorry for that.

                Glenn, Royal Scot Lights





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Kevin Windsor
                Hi Larry, as far as the Bicentennial there have been no funds set aside. If you look at the regions that were created by the Provincial Government you would
                Message 7 of 28 , Dec 13, 2009
                • 0 Attachment
                  Hi Larry, as far as the Bicentennial there have been no funds set aside.



                  If you look at the regions that were created by the Provincial Government
                  you would see that if each region was given a million dollars (no $$ has
                  been set aside this is just a hypothetical number) each site in the Windsor
                  area (the Province shouldn't have to fund Detroit!) would get more $$ than a
                  site in Niagara!



                  KW





                  _____

                  From: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                  Of larrylozon


                  Glenn:

                  I must agree with you, although the War of 1812 was fought in Southwestern
                  Ontario our Government has seen fit to fund Central and Eastern Ontario and
                  the Niagara Peninsula, ignoring Windsor/Detroit, Sandwich, Fort Malden, the
                  McCrae House, the Battle of the Thames, etc. (for our American Re-enactors
                  our Provincial Ontario government is in Toronto and our National Canadian
                  government is in Ottawa)

                  (am I being bitter)

                  Yrs:
                  L2

                  ,___



                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Victor Suthren
                  Perceived imbalances in what the Province of Ontario may choose to do---or not do---as regards significant 1812 events and sites may be covered by the
                  Message 8 of 28 , Dec 13, 2009
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Perceived imbalances in what the Province of Ontario may choose to do---or not do---as regards significant 1812 events and sites may be covered by the developing Parks Canada program, which is intended to take a 'national importance' perspective in 1812 commemoration. The program is being developed by the former Director General of National Parks, Doug Stewart, with able individuals such as Ron Dale and others contributing to that development, and the Parks-led commemorations may bring a balance that will---hopefully---soothe bitter feelings.

                    Vic Suthren


                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: larrylozon
                    To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Saturday, December 12, 2009 4:51 PM
                    Subject: War of 1812 Bicentennial activities for 2012-2015





                    Glenn:

                    I must agree with you, although the War of 1812 was fought in Southwestern Ontario our Government has seen fit to fund Central and Eastern Ontario and the Niagara Peninsula, ignoring Windsor/Detroit, Sandwich, Fort Malden, the McCrae House, the Battle of the Thames, etc. (for our American Re-enactors our Provincial Ontario government is in Toronto and our National Canadian government is in Ottawa)

                    (am I being bitter)

                    Yrs:
                    L2

                    --- Glenn Stott wrote:

                    In the eyes of the Government ( I am being bitter) a spectacular park, to be appropriate would have to include waterslides, a theme park, amusement rides etc. and oh yes some mention of Tecumseh, but also include a "spectacular" government plaque.

                    Ron , also the reason for there not being a separate section which includes Norfolk, Brant, Elgin, and Middlesex is that we were basically ignored when the organizers divided up the pie ( the funds). We were included with Niagara as part of ... oh, we forgot about the London District... oh dear what shall we do with them.

                    Granted, no major battles occurred in these regions other than the Burning of Dover Mills, the raids on Port Talbot, Marauder incursions along the Thames valley, the Battle of Longwoods, McArthur's attack, as well as innumerable skirmishes... but to the residents of this region, they were significant to their lives.

                    I recognize that for whatever reason, our area was ignored, and not necessarily the fault of anyone other than ourselves. Nevertheless, decisions were and are made without much consultation. The majority of funds appear to be going to sites already established and reasonably prosperous from a tourism view. It would have been advisable to have explored and indeed encouraged other, smaller but significant sites to develop appropriate projects which would have ensured a future role in tourism related to the War of 1812-14. It doesn't appear to be going to happen. We will have the same old sites... York, Niagara, Wasaga Beach??!!!, etc. etc. But we could have had... Moraviantown, Longwoods, Burford, Normandale, Port dover, Fishers' Glen, Port Talbot, Tecumseh Park, etc. etc.

                    > Glenn, Royal Lights





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • larrylozon
                    Hi Kevin Didn t you say the Lundy s lane Museum expansion (where you work) was to be funded by the Government s War of 1812 Bicentennial thingie? My reference
                    Message 9 of 28 , Dec 13, 2009
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                      Hi Kevin

                      Didn't you say the Lundy's lane Museum expansion (where you work) was to be funded by the Government's War of 1812 Bicentennial thingie?

                      My reference to Detroit was so all on this list would know that Windsor in the {Province of Ontario} is across the river from Detroit

                      Yrs.,
                      L2


                      --- "Kevin Windsor" wrote:

                      "Hi Larry, as far as the Bicentennial there have been no funds set aside..."
                    • shayna121
                      Vic, The problem with any Parks Canada program I see is two-fold (no offence intended to anyone working on this project): 1 - As they have their own War of
                      Message 10 of 28 , Dec 13, 2009
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                        Vic,
                        The problem with any Parks Canada program I see is two-fold (no offence intended to anyone working on this project): 1 - As they have their own War of 1812 sites, they would obviously have their own agenda and 2 - the past commerative event that I witnessed run by Parks Canada (Louisboug) was, ahem, less than stellar.

                        Kevin - has the response from the Niagara School Boards been positive? I do think that there needs to be Province-wide discussion, as that's where the mandates come from, but it's a start. The problem with history, as always, in the elementary system is that it's only a subject for grades seven and eight (K-6 take Social Studies). In addition, the focus on math and language often leaves little money for history in PD sessions.


                        Chris McKay

                        --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Victor Suthren" <suthren@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Perceived imbalances in what the Province of Ontario may choose to do---or not do---as regards significant 1812 events and sites may be covered by the developing Parks Canada program, which is intended to take a 'national importance' perspective in 1812 commemoration. The program is being developed by the former Director General of National Parks, Doug Stewart, with able individuals such as Ron Dale and others contributing to that development, and the Parks-led commemorations may bring a balance that will---hopefully---soothe bitter feelings.
                        >
                        > Vic Suthren
                        >
                        >
                        > ----- Original Message -----
                        > From: larrylozon
                        > To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                        > Sent: Saturday, December 12, 2009 4:51 PM
                        > Subject: War of 1812 Bicentennial activities for 2012-2015
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Glenn:
                        >
                        > I must agree with you, although the War of 1812 was fought in Southwestern Ontario our Government has seen fit to fund Central and Eastern Ontario and the Niagara Peninsula, ignoring Windsor/Detroit, Sandwich, Fort Malden, the McCrae House, the Battle of the Thames, etc. (for our American Re-enactors our Provincial Ontario government is in Toronto and our National Canadian government is in Ottawa)
                        >
                        > (am I being bitter)
                        >
                        > Yrs:
                        > L2
                        >
                        > --- Glenn Stott wrote:
                        >
                        > In the eyes of the Government ( I am being bitter) a spectacular park, to be appropriate would have to include waterslides, a theme park, amusement rides etc. and oh yes some mention of Tecumseh, but also include a "spectacular" government plaque.
                        >
                        > Ron , also the reason for there not being a separate section which includes Norfolk, Brant, Elgin, and Middlesex is that we were basically ignored when the organizers divided up the pie ( the funds). We were included with Niagara as part of ... oh, we forgot about the London District... oh dear what shall we do with them.
                        >
                        > Granted, no major battles occurred in these regions other than the Burning of Dover Mills, the raids on Port Talbot, Marauder incursions along the Thames valley, the Battle of Longwoods, McArthur's attack, as well as innumerable skirmishes... but to the residents of this region, they were significant to their lives.
                        >
                        > I recognize that for whatever reason, our area was ignored, and not necessarily the fault of anyone other than ourselves. Nevertheless, decisions were and are made without much consultation. The majority of funds appear to be going to sites already established and reasonably prosperous from a tourism view. It would have been advisable to have explored and indeed encouraged other, smaller but significant sites to develop appropriate projects which would have ensured a future role in tourism related to the War of 1812-14. It doesn't appear to be going to happen. We will have the same old sites... York, Niagara, Wasaga Beach??!!!, etc. etc. But we could have had... Moraviantown, Longwoods, Burford, Normandale, Port dover, Fishers' Glen, Port Talbot, Tecumseh Park, etc. etc.
                        >
                        > > Glenn, Royal Lights
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                      • Kevin Windsor
                        Nope! It s part of the Building Canada fund for infrastructure projects. So it is also for roads, bridges, sewers, redevelopment and all that good stuff
                        Message 11 of 28 , Dec 13, 2009
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                          Nope! It's part of the "Building Canada" fund for infrastructure projects.
                          So it is also for roads, bridges, sewers, redevelopment and all that good
                          stuff there! It is jointly funded by the Federal, Provincial and Municipal
                          governments.

                          I am sure that the only reason why it was picked was because of the
                          approaching bicentennial (and the successful promotion from our board, our
                          Local MPP and MP). It has put more sites on the radar of the Governments.



                          So don't sit and wait for the Feddies to hand out huge stacks of cash for
                          the bicentennial. The Federal Gov't will make sure that the sites they have
                          a responsibility to run (Parks Canada and some other National Historic Sites
                          of Canada) will be funded. Now this is not a complaint, just an observation
                          and a reality. There is only so much $$ to throw around. Parks Canada
                          sites have been screaming for $$ for years so it is only natural that if
                          there is an influx of cash it goes to the ones who have been asking the
                          longest first!



                          However, what places can do is to use to bicentennial to their advantage in
                          other grants! Use the Ontario Cultural Attraction Fund to fund a
                          bicentennial event, apply for a Trillium Grant. So look for grants and
                          apply for them using the bicentennial as leverage. It makes other Gov't
                          agencies look good because they are then seen as funding the bicentennial
                          and you get you $$.





                          Kevin

                          _____

                          From: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                          Of larrylozon




                          Hi Kevin

                          Didn't you say the Lundy's lane Museum expansion (where you work) was to be
                          funded by the Government's War of 1812 Bicentennial thingie?

                          My reference to Detroit was so all on this list would know that Windsor in
                          the {Province of Ontario} is across the river from Detroit

                          Yrs.,
                          L2

                          ,_._,___



                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Kevin Windsor
                          Yes it has been! They are part of an education sub-committee that we have formed, they (both boards) are partnering with us in the region on our War of 1812
                          Message 12 of 28 , Dec 13, 2009
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                            Yes it has been! They are part of an education sub-committee that we have
                            formed, they (both boards) are partnering with us in the region on our War
                            of 1812 Digitisation project, and have been pushing the bicentennial at
                            Historica. The thing with approaching the Province first is that it will
                            work better with buy in from the teachers first! You know first hand that
                            there are things that you ~HAVE~ to teach and the more engaged in it that
                            you are the better you are at teaching it!



                            So we start local and they will get the province to change.(we hope?)



                            Do you know of any teachers or ~retired~ teachers that can help? (as bitter
                            and crotchety as he is!)



                            KW



                            _____

                            From: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                            Of shayna121



                            Kevin - has the response from the Niagara School Boards been positive? I do
                            think that there needs to be Province-wide discussion, as that's where the
                            mandates come from, but it's a start. The problem with history, as always,
                            in the elementary system is that it's only a subject for grades seven and
                            eight (K-6 take Social Studies). In addition, the focus on math and language
                            often leaves little money for history in PD sessions.

                            Chris McKay
                            _



                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • larrylozon
                            Thank you Kevin, for your explanation. I am sure all on this list were enlightened. Yrs., L2 ... ... It is jointly funded by the Federal, Provincial and
                            Message 13 of 28 , Dec 13, 2009
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                              Thank you Kevin, for your explanation.

                              I am sure all on this list were enlightened.

                              Yrs.,
                              L2


                              --- "Kevin Windsor" wrote:

                              "... It is jointly funded by the Federal, Provincial and Municipal
                              governments.... I am sure that the only reason why it was picked was because of the approaching bicentennial..."
                            • Mark Dickerson
                              There are a couple of issues that I would like to address from my point of view. First, for those that cannot recognize hyperbole, there are not going to be
                              Message 14 of 28 , Dec 14, 2009
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                                There are a couple of issues that I would like to address from my point of
                                view.



                                First, for those that cannot recognize hyperbole, there are not going to be
                                any waterparks or waterslides or DisneyLand rides at the Tecumseh Monument
                                site. I have been on this committee from the beginning. The first concept
                                design by Ekistics has just been revealed to the committee and the public.
                                It is very somber, and respective of Tecumseh and the participants of the
                                Battle of the Thames. I can make these files available to anybody who wants
                                to see them offline. Please contact me. Various groups have been consulted
                                and invited to attend. These include, but are not exculsive to, local
                                native groups, local land owners, historical groups, (the 41st and the US
                                27th re-enactment groups), municipal government and any concerned public.
                                These plans are not finalized, and phase 2 of the concept design is now
                                underway. Once this is done, then the fundraising starts.





                                Second, what Dave says about each region having autonomy as to what happens
                                in their region is correct. That being said, not each region may or may not
                                be unanimous in their decision making. For example my region is Essex-Kent.
                                Both Essex and Kent are separate municipal governments. The Tourism
                                department of each government has co-operated so far, but when (and if) the
                                money starts flowing to the region, who knows how the money will be divided?
                                Including the upper Thames (i.e. Longwoods) with Essex-Kent might make sense
                                to us, but is either municipality going to be willing to send money to
                                Middlesex County? I don't know. At my meetings I have mentioned
                                developing Longwoods but the response I seem to get is "That is not in our
                                region". Also, will the bi-centennial committee of Niagara be willing to
                                develop/ help/ financially support Brantford, Pt Dover or Bacchus? In my
                                opinion, people from those regions need to make DARN sure they get
                                themselves on the Niagara committee and make their voices be heard or they
                                may be left out in the cold!!!!!



                                I agree with what Dave and Kevin also said about currently available
                                programs and money. The only money that has been distributed so far by the
                                Ministry of Tourism, has been dedicated for each region to basically develop
                                a business plan or hire a development supervisor for their region. Other
                                money that has been earmarked, has been spent by other branches of the
                                government. Curiously, Heritage Canada and the Ministry of Culture have
                                been quiet. They had representatives at the meetings I have been at, but
                                they did not say much.



                                Mark Dickerson

                                Chair of the Battle of the Thames 2013 committee







                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Ian Gardner
                                From today s Toronto Star http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/738396--hamilton-moves-to-exh ume-soldiers-remains Hamilton moves to exhume soldiers
                                Message 15 of 28 , Dec 14, 2009
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                                  From today's Toronto Star

                                  http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/article/738396--hamilton-moves-to-exh
                                  ume-soldiers-remains

                                  "Hamilton moves to exhume soldiers' remains"

                                  "HAMILTON-The city is taking steps to exhume and rebury the remains of
                                  War of 1812 casualties buried under a homeowner's lawn.

                                  Councillors have voted to spend up to $30,000 on a strategy to remove
                                  the remains associated with the Smith's Knoll archeological dig.

                                  Back in 1998 and 1999, 24 bodies were found by diggers and reinterred in
                                  an emotional ceremony with U.S. and Canadian military.

                                  A later renovation of a parkette by Stoney Creek Battlefield Park
                                  revealed the presence of new bones on the adjoining private lot.

                                  It's thought as many as 16 soldiers could be buried under the front lawn
                                  of the neat white bungalow.

                                  Because the archeologist lacked authority to work on the private lot,
                                  the bones were left there.

                                  Councillor Brad Clark and history buffs want these new remains exhumed
                                  for a proper burial.

                                  Stoney Creek was the site of a June 1813 night attack by outnumbered
                                  British forces trying to surprise the advancing Americans as they slept.
                                  Casualties ran high in a brief, confused battle that led to a U.S.
                                  retreat."

                                  Presumably the house referred to in the article is this house here (link
                                  to a Google Map view):

                                  http://tinyurl.com/Stoney-creek

                                  I can't see it being the smaller house to the east next to the creek as
                                  it's gone, replaced by a new driveway into the Battlefield House
                                  property. In any case, if I were the home's owner, with this bit of
                                  intelligence I'd be a little reticent about mowing the lawn.

                                  Ian

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                                • larrylozon
                                  Mark Was not the US 27th Re-enactment Group disbanded a few years ago and the umbrella group The Kent Military Re-enactment Society also disbanded before the
                                  Message 16 of 28 , Dec 14, 2009
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                                    Mark

                                    Was not the US 27th Re-enactment Group disbanded a few years ago and the umbrella group The Kent Military Re-enactment Society also disbanded before the War of 1812 Bicentennial Committee was formed?

                                    I am understood that this disbanding of the 27th USI is the reason the 1st (Royal Scots) Regt. Light Company has chosen the 27thUSI as their second 1812 impression.


                                    Yrs.,
                                    L2

                                    --- "Mark Dickerson" wrote:

                                    "... Various groups have been consulted ... These include ... the US 27th re-enactment groups)..."
                                  • Mark Dickerson
                                    No, the Kent Military Re-enactment Society (US 27th) still exists and has regular monthly meetings. However, none of the members typically dress as such. We
                                    Message 17 of 28 , Dec 14, 2009
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                                      No, the Kent Military Re-enactment Society (US 27th) still exists and has
                                      regular monthly meetings. However, none of the members typically dress as
                                      such. We are present at events as members of other organizations (Royal
                                      Scots light company, 10th Royal Veterans, etc) or as merchants/ civilians.



                                      There is going to be a recruiting drive on the last Sunday of January, in
                                      Thamesville to encourage new people to join the re-enacting hobby and to
                                      promote the Battle of the Thames 2013.



                                      Mark D







                                      From: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                                      Of larrylozon
                                      Sent: December 14, 2009 12:28 PM
                                      To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: War of 1812 Bicentennial activities for 2012-2015






                                      Mark

                                      Was not the US 27th Re-enactment Group disbanded a few years ago and the
                                      umbrella group The Kent Military Re-enactment Society also disbanded before
                                      the War of 1812 Bicentennial Committee was formed?

                                      I am understood that this disbanding of the 27th USI is the reason the 1st
                                      (Royal Scots) Regt. Light Company has chosen the 27thUSI as their second
                                      1812 impression.

                                      Yrs.,
                                      L2

                                      --- "Mark Dickerson" wrote:

                                      "... Various groups have been consulted ... These include ... the US 27th
                                      re-enactment groups)..."





                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • larrylozon
                                      Thank you for the information yrs., L2 ... No, the Kent Military Re-enactment Society (US 27th) still exists..
                                      Message 18 of 28 , Dec 14, 2009
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                                        Thank you for the information

                                        yrs.,
                                        L2


                                        --- "Mark Dickerson" wrote:

                                        " No, the Kent Military Re-enactment Society (US 27th) still exists.."
                                      • DAVID BRUNELLE
                                        Hi Chris, Sorry of the delay answering your questions. The original process that the province used to make up the six regions was based on where historical
                                        Message 19 of 28 , Dec 16, 2009
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                                          Hi Chris,

                                          Sorry of the delay answering your questions.

                                          The original process that the province used to make up the six regions was based on where historical events happened during the War of 1812 and organizations that were already in place that represented War of 1812 interest. Therefore municipalities, historic sites, conservation areas, museums, etc were the primary contacts that the Ministry of Tourism solicited first to be part of the initial regional representation. From there each region took on there own separate direction in regards to how the committee would be set-up, partners & public involvement, funding and new project/initiative development. You also have to take into consideration that each region is operated differently as to who has taken the lead role in making things happen. This fact plays a big role in how fast or slow each region has progressed over the last two years.

                                          Kevin is correct that if you are intending to get the Ministry of Education involved do not go directly to the Ministry of Education as you will not get anywhere with them. The Ministry of Education will not change or alter the current curriculum or add more War of 1812 content due to the upcoming bicentennial. If it did it for the War of 1812 content it would be constantly changing the curriculum every time a significant date or significant event it Canadian history came along. Your best route as Kevin mentioned already is to approach each school board directly with a plan of action as they have more flexibility in added special content to their schools programming. You can also approach each school directly as well. Finding a few teachers, principals or trustees that will help your promote special War of 1812 programming in the schools is a big help as well.

                                          I have been involved with this project for over 2 years now and although the ultimate goal of the Ministry of Tourism is to stimulate tourism dollars they have never once said that generating tourism revenue is the only goal and criteria they are looking for when it comes to supporting War of 1812 Bicentennial activities big or small. All the information that I have been told is just the opposite. Provincial themes at this point up for consideration include:

                                          1. Country and Pride of Place - "Who we are & who we are not"

                                          2. Celebrate that "History does Matter"

                                          3. Our/A Defining Moment

                                          4. My Community - "More than just a war"

                                          5. Honour and Sacrifice

                                          6. Diversity

                                          7. Peace

                                          8. Water

                                          9. Journey/Movement

                                          I have also included a exert from the Southern Georgian Bay War of 1812 Committees mission statement:

                                          This plan provides an overview of the historical significance of communities in and around the Southern Georgian Bay area with reference to the War of 1812. The plan recognizes the opportunity for the community to promote this theme, and puts forward the ideas of local stakeholders in the Southern Georgian Bay area who are interested in developing capital projects, events and activities in recognition of the anniversary. The year 2012 marks the 200th anniversary of the beginning of the War of 1812. This historic event provides a legitimate opportunity to increase our regions profile through:


                                          · Providing an opportunity to revitalize existing historic sites and expand tourism appeal to these sites.
                                          · Providing an opportunity to enhance tourism events and create new ones.
                                          · Celebrate the Bicentennial in an interactive and proactive way.
                                          · Educate the public, particularly local residents and school groups, about the importance of the history of the War of 1812 in our communities.
                                          · Provide an opportunity to instil national, provincial and community pride through a rediscovery of local history.
                                          · Develop tourism product with significant potential to increase visitors and economic impact in the region.

                                          Any further questions that I can help with please let me know!

                                          David Brunelle
                                          Project Director
                                          SGB 1812-2012




                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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