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Re: Rifles----Blunderbuss ?!?! British perspective

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  • Roger Fuller
    Craig and List, in the AWI it was quite common for musketmen on both sides to load not only buck and ball, but to split, mangle and drive nails in the ball to
    Message 1 of 10 , Feb 1, 2000
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      Craig and List,
      in the AWI it was quite common for musketmen on both sides to load not only buck and ball, but to split, mangle and drive nails in the ball to inflict even more horrendous injuries on the enemy. Of course, accuracy- such as it was with smoothbore muskets- suffered.

      If the Americans were using buck and ball in the War of 1812, is there any possibility of the Crown Forces were doing it again as well? I haven't heard of any, myself.

      Roger
    • Roger Fuller
      ... From: Annette and Lloyd Gower To: WarOf1812@onelist.com Date: 01 February 2000 17:47 Subject: Re: [WarOf1812]
      Message 2 of 10 , Feb 1, 2000
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        -----Original Message-----
        From: Annette and Lloyd Gower <agower@...>
        To: WarOf1812@onelist.com <WarOf1812@onelist.com>
        Date: 01 February 2000 17:47
        Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Rifles----Blunderbuss ?!?! British perspective


        From: "Annette and Lloyd Gower" <agower@...>


        Rifles do not , Riflemen do on occasion .
        aberacadabera . poof .
        The Rifles are not "poofs"; they are "saucy fellows". Riflemen of other nations I couldn't possibly comment on.... :^)

        Roger
        3/95th (Rifles)
      • Annette and Lloyd Gower
        Rifles do not , Riflemen do on occasion . aberacadabera . poof . ... From: Roger Fuller To: WarOf1812@onelist.com Sent: Monday, January 31, 2000 10:03 PM
        Message 3 of 10 , Feb 1, 2000
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          Rifles do not , Riflemen do on occasion .
          aberacadabera . poof .
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Roger Fuller
          To: WarOf1812@onelist.com
          Sent: Monday, January 31, 2000 10:03 PM
          Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Rifles----Blunderbuss ?!?! British perspective


          From: "Roger Fuller" <fullerfamily@...>


          Uh...I have no idea what this discussion is all about, and to where it's supposed to be headed :^), but in the British Army of the War of 1812 era, at least in the rifle regiments, I have seen no reference to buck and ball at all being used either in combat or in garrison. I should imagine the buckshot clattering about in the rifled barrel with the ball would throw the path of the ball off a bit, rendering the shot inaccurate, and the rifle superfluous. Up close? Another matter. I'll keep on looking in my references for ball and shot together in a rifle in the British Army, maybe something will turn up. Riflemen always kept- or were supposed to keep- a few musket-style cartridges of undersized ball (and maybe buckshot?)for use in an emergency, but the rifleman's best weapon outside of his rifle was his legs*- when the going got tough, the tough got going- and fast!

          * It sure wasn't the sword- very clumsy, but still deadly when fixed. It had a 1 1/2 edged blade. Still best for chopping firewood, though.

          Blunderbusses in the British Army? No idea. If used, then probably not as official issue. Maybe by wagon drivers, or civilians contracted to serve the army as conductors or sutlers? The only advantage a blunderbuss would have would be the swamped muzzle, easier to load on a pitching wagon or coach. The shortest British Army firearms used in this era besides pistols were the Paget carbine (smoothbore), mostly by light dragoons, and the privately made Baker carbine (rifled), by a few light infantry and Rifles officers.

          BTW I have seen no mention of Mr Nock's seven-barrelled volley gun ever used on land, nor on ships, in active service.

          Roger
          3/95th (Rifles)
          -----Original Message-----
          From: Annette and Lloyd Gower <agower@...>
          To: WarOf1812@onelist.com <WarOf1812@onelist.com>
          Date: 31 January 2000 20:24
          Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Rifles----Blunderbuss ?!?!


          From: "Annette and Lloyd Gower" <agower@...>


          Their were times riflemen were deployed with muskets , we are not unfamiliar to buck and ball , and understand not wanting to be on the receiving end , blunderbuss realy !
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Larry Lozon
          To: WarOf1812@onelist.com
          Sent: Monday, January 31, 2000 7:44 PM
          Subject: [WarOf1812] Rifles----Blunderbuss ?!?!


          From: "Larry Lozon" <lalozon@...>


          Hey Annette er' Lloyd,
          thot you were rifles,
          do rifles shoot "buck n' ball" Roger???


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        • Scott McDonald
          ... AUSTRALIA AUSTRAILA AUSTRAILIA!...NO MORE POOFTAS! This Monyy Python moment has been brought to you by... Scott McDonald
          Message 4 of 10 , Feb 1, 2000
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            >The Rifles are not "poofs"; they are "saucy fellows". Riflemen of other
            >nations I couldn't possibly comment on.... :^)
            >
            >Roger
            >3/95th (Rifles)


            "AUSTRALIA AUSTRAILA AUSTRAILIA!...NO MORE POOFTAS!"
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          • Craig Williams
            If the Americans were using buck and ball in the War of 1812, is there any possibility of the Crown Forces were doing it again as well? I haven t heard of
            Message 5 of 10 , Feb 1, 2000
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              "If the Americans were using buck and ball in the War of 1812, is there any possibility of the Crown Forces were doing it again as well? I haven't heard of any, myself."

              Never heard of it! That would mean producing yet another ammunition and possibly screwing up supply etc. No I believe "buck`n`ball" is souly US
              Craig on this continent.
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            • Len Heidebrecht
              There were an incredable amount of arms and ammunition captured at Detroit, Mackinac, Raisin Queenston,Niagara, etc . Much of those arms and belting were
              Message 6 of 10 , Feb 1, 2000
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                There were an incredable amount of arms and ammunition captured at Detroit, Mackinac, Raisin Queenston,Niagara, etc . Much of those arms and belting were distributed to the militia, so does it not follow that the prewrapped captured ammunition would be issued as well?

                Len

                > "If the Americans were using buck and ball in the War of 1812, is there any possibility of the Crown Forces were doing it again as well? I haven't heard of any, myself."
                >
                > Never heard of it! That would mean producing yet another ammunition and possibly screwing up supply etc. No I believe "buck`n`ball" is souly US
                > Craig on this continent.


                Umm, define which continent please....


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              • Craig Williams
                Actually Len my previous missive got cocked up somehow and should have read, buck and ball is souly US, on this continent. Craig And yes I m pretty sure
                Message 7 of 10 , Feb 1, 2000
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                  Actually Len my previous missive got cocked up somehow and should have
                  read,"buck and ball is souly US, on this continent. Craig"
                  And yes I'm pretty sure that not how to spell "souly" but my spell check is
                  suffering from Microsoft "we don't speak English we speak American", and I
                  am a little dyslexic.


                  As to your comment " There were an incredable amount of arms and ammunition
                  captured at Detroit, Mackinac, Raisin Queenston,Niagara, etc . Much of those
                  arms and belting were distributed to the militia, so does it not follow that
                  the prewrapped captured ammunition would be issued as well?

                  I say yes of course it's possible but I've yet to find referrence. Perhaps
                  someone else knows?
                • Roger Fuller
                  ... From: Scott McDonald To: WarOf1812@onelist.com Date: 01 February 2000 18:26 Subject: Re: [WarOf1812]
                  Message 8 of 10 , Feb 1, 2000
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                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: Scott McDonald <raintree@...>
                    To: WarOf1812@onelist.com <WarOf1812@onelist.com>
                    Date: 01 February 2000 18:26
                    Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Rifles----Blunderbuss ?!?! British perspective

                    "AUSTRALIA AUSTRAILA AUSTRAILIA!...NO MORE POOFTAS!"
                    This Monyy Python moment has been brought to you by...
                    Scott McDonald

                    My all time fave newspaper headline, from Australia, congratulating Elton John when he married some poor woman (an unexpected, ultimately doomed event- they divorced [wonder why...]):

                    "GOOD ON'YER, POUFTER!"

                    Roger
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