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Re: Rifles----Blunderbuss ?!?! British perspective

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  • Roger Fuller
    Craig and List, in the AWI it was quite common for musketmen on both sides to load not only buck and ball, but to split, mangle and drive nails in the ball to
    Message 1 of 10 , Feb 1, 2000
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      Craig and List,
      in the AWI it was quite common for musketmen on both sides to load not only buck and ball, but to split, mangle and drive nails in the ball to inflict even more horrendous injuries on the enemy. Of course, accuracy- such as it was with smoothbore muskets- suffered.

      If the Americans were using buck and ball in the War of 1812, is there any possibility of the Crown Forces were doing it again as well? I haven't heard of any, myself.

      Roger
    • Craig Williams
      Rog, buck and ball is ,in the 1812 war, an ammunition used by the US infantry only. Plenty of evidence of issue on paper and plenty of evidence physically.
      Message 2 of 10 , Feb 1, 2000
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        Rog, "buck and ball" is ,in the 1812 war, an ammunition used by the US infantry only. Plenty of evidence of issue on paper and plenty of evidence physically. One of the US boys dug up at Fort Erie had three rounds of buck and ball in his pocket when he was buried! And then there was that musket at Chateugay that someone "oopsed" into the river, that was still loaded.
        Craig
      • Roger Fuller
        ... From: Annette and Lloyd Gower To: WarOf1812@onelist.com Date: 01 February 2000 17:47 Subject: Re: [WarOf1812]
        Message 3 of 10 , Feb 1, 2000
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          -----Original Message-----
          From: Annette and Lloyd Gower <agower@...>
          To: WarOf1812@onelist.com <WarOf1812@onelist.com>
          Date: 01 February 2000 17:47
          Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Rifles----Blunderbuss ?!?! British perspective


          From: "Annette and Lloyd Gower" <agower@...>


          Rifles do not , Riflemen do on occasion .
          aberacadabera . poof .
          The Rifles are not "poofs"; they are "saucy fellows". Riflemen of other nations I couldn't possibly comment on.... :^)

          Roger
          3/95th (Rifles)
        • Annette and Lloyd Gower
          Rifles do not , Riflemen do on occasion . aberacadabera . poof . ... From: Roger Fuller To: WarOf1812@onelist.com Sent: Monday, January 31, 2000 10:03 PM
          Message 4 of 10 , Feb 1, 2000
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            Rifles do not , Riflemen do on occasion .
            aberacadabera . poof .
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Roger Fuller
            To: WarOf1812@onelist.com
            Sent: Monday, January 31, 2000 10:03 PM
            Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Rifles----Blunderbuss ?!?! British perspective


            From: "Roger Fuller" <fullerfamily@...>


            Uh...I have no idea what this discussion is all about, and to where it's supposed to be headed :^), but in the British Army of the War of 1812 era, at least in the rifle regiments, I have seen no reference to buck and ball at all being used either in combat or in garrison. I should imagine the buckshot clattering about in the rifled barrel with the ball would throw the path of the ball off a bit, rendering the shot inaccurate, and the rifle superfluous. Up close? Another matter. I'll keep on looking in my references for ball and shot together in a rifle in the British Army, maybe something will turn up. Riflemen always kept- or were supposed to keep- a few musket-style cartridges of undersized ball (and maybe buckshot?)for use in an emergency, but the rifleman's best weapon outside of his rifle was his legs*- when the going got tough, the tough got going- and fast!

            * It sure wasn't the sword- very clumsy, but still deadly when fixed. It had a 1 1/2 edged blade. Still best for chopping firewood, though.

            Blunderbusses in the British Army? No idea. If used, then probably not as official issue. Maybe by wagon drivers, or civilians contracted to serve the army as conductors or sutlers? The only advantage a blunderbuss would have would be the swamped muzzle, easier to load on a pitching wagon or coach. The shortest British Army firearms used in this era besides pistols were the Paget carbine (smoothbore), mostly by light dragoons, and the privately made Baker carbine (rifled), by a few light infantry and Rifles officers.

            BTW I have seen no mention of Mr Nock's seven-barrelled volley gun ever used on land, nor on ships, in active service.

            Roger
            3/95th (Rifles)
            -----Original Message-----
            From: Annette and Lloyd Gower <agower@...>
            To: WarOf1812@onelist.com <WarOf1812@onelist.com>
            Date: 31 January 2000 20:24
            Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Rifles----Blunderbuss ?!?!


            From: "Annette and Lloyd Gower" <agower@...>


            Their were times riflemen were deployed with muskets , we are not unfamiliar to buck and ball , and understand not wanting to be on the receiving end , blunderbuss realy !
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Larry Lozon
            To: WarOf1812@onelist.com
            Sent: Monday, January 31, 2000 7:44 PM
            Subject: [WarOf1812] Rifles----Blunderbuss ?!?!


            From: "Larry Lozon" <lalozon@...>


            Hey Annette er' Lloyd,
            thot you were rifles,
            do rifles shoot "buck n' ball" Roger???


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          • Scott McDonald
            ... AUSTRALIA AUSTRAILA AUSTRAILIA!...NO MORE POOFTAS! This Monyy Python moment has been brought to you by... Scott McDonald
            Message 5 of 10 , Feb 1, 2000
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              >The Rifles are not "poofs"; they are "saucy fellows". Riflemen of other
              >nations I couldn't possibly comment on.... :^)
              >
              >Roger
              >3/95th (Rifles)


              "AUSTRALIA AUSTRAILA AUSTRAILIA!...NO MORE POOFTAS!"
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            • Craig Williams
              If the Americans were using buck and ball in the War of 1812, is there any possibility of the Crown Forces were doing it again as well? I haven t heard of
              Message 6 of 10 , Feb 1, 2000
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                "If the Americans were using buck and ball in the War of 1812, is there any possibility of the Crown Forces were doing it again as well? I haven't heard of any, myself."

                Never heard of it! That would mean producing yet another ammunition and possibly screwing up supply etc. No I believe "buck`n`ball" is souly US
                Craig on this continent.
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              • Len Heidebrecht
                There were an incredable amount of arms and ammunition captured at Detroit, Mackinac, Raisin Queenston,Niagara, etc . Much of those arms and belting were
                Message 7 of 10 , Feb 1, 2000
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                  There were an incredable amount of arms and ammunition captured at Detroit, Mackinac, Raisin Queenston,Niagara, etc . Much of those arms and belting were distributed to the militia, so does it not follow that the prewrapped captured ammunition would be issued as well?

                  Len

                  > "If the Americans were using buck and ball in the War of 1812, is there any possibility of the Crown Forces were doing it again as well? I haven't heard of any, myself."
                  >
                  > Never heard of it! That would mean producing yet another ammunition and possibly screwing up supply etc. No I believe "buck`n`ball" is souly US
                  > Craig on this continent.


                  Umm, define which continent please....


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                • Craig Williams
                  Actually Len my previous missive got cocked up somehow and should have read, buck and ball is souly US, on this continent. Craig And yes I m pretty sure
                  Message 8 of 10 , Feb 1, 2000
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                    Actually Len my previous missive got cocked up somehow and should have
                    read,"buck and ball is souly US, on this continent. Craig"
                    And yes I'm pretty sure that not how to spell "souly" but my spell check is
                    suffering from Microsoft "we don't speak English we speak American", and I
                    am a little dyslexic.


                    As to your comment " There were an incredable amount of arms and ammunition
                    captured at Detroit, Mackinac, Raisin Queenston,Niagara, etc . Much of those
                    arms and belting were distributed to the militia, so does it not follow that
                    the prewrapped captured ammunition would be issued as well?

                    I say yes of course it's possible but I've yet to find referrence. Perhaps
                    someone else knows?
                  • Roger Fuller
                    ... From: Scott McDonald To: WarOf1812@onelist.com Date: 01 February 2000 18:26 Subject: Re: [WarOf1812]
                    Message 9 of 10 , Feb 1, 2000
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                      -----Original Message-----
                      From: Scott McDonald <raintree@...>
                      To: WarOf1812@onelist.com <WarOf1812@onelist.com>
                      Date: 01 February 2000 18:26
                      Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Rifles----Blunderbuss ?!?! British perspective

                      "AUSTRALIA AUSTRAILA AUSTRAILIA!...NO MORE POOFTAS!"
                      This Monyy Python moment has been brought to you by...
                      Scott McDonald

                      My all time fave newspaper headline, from Australia, congratulating Elton John when he married some poor woman (an unexpected, ultimately doomed event- they divorced [wonder why...]):

                      "GOOD ON'YER, POUFTER!"

                      Roger
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