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RE: 1812 New Addition - The Drums

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  • petemonahan@sympatico.ca
    Huzzah! Peter Monahan petemonahan@sympatico.ca 705-435-0953 ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    Message 1 of 11 , Apr 27 10:10 AM
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      Huzzah!


      Peter Monahan
      petemonahan@...
      705-435-0953




      > To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
      > From: drums1812@...
      > Date: Mon, 27 Apr 2009 16:55:13 +0000
      > Subject: 1812 New Addition - The Drums
      >
      > I am pleased to announce that Doug Decroix has agreed to join the Drums, Crown forces 1812 as a bugler. For the 2009 season Doug will contribute to our efforts to incorporate bugle calls into camp routines and on the battlefield at events by introducing the correct signals for the battalion and mentoring our young buglers. Welcome Doug!
      >
      > "Drums"
      >
      >
      >
      > ------------------------------------
      >
      > War of 1812 Living History:
      > A wide-ranging information exchange
      > for all participants and supporters
      >
      >
      > Unit Contact information for North America:
      > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
      > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
      > American Forces Unit Listing
      > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
      >
      > WAR OF 1812 EVENTS LIST:
      > http://royal.scots.tripod.com/warof1812eventslistYahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >


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    • Jim Hill
      Oh Ross Keep a close eye on any 6th Foot Lights. Always trouble. Jim
      Message 2 of 11 , Apr 28 6:02 AM
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        Oh Ross
        Keep a close eye on any 6th Foot Lights. Always trouble.
        Jim


        > I am pleased to announce that Doug Decroix has agreed to join the Drums, Crown forces 1812 as a bugler. For the 2009 season Doug will contribute to our efforts to incorporate bugle calls into camp routines and on the battlefield at events by introducing the correct signals for the battalion and mentoring our young buglers. Welcome Doug!
        >
        > "Drums"
        >
      • Kylie Hewitt
        At our Jane Austen Ball this weekend in Rochester, NY, we d like to announce the promotion of one of the attendees from Lt. to Captain in the 1812 RN. We don t
        Message 3 of 11 , Apr 30 2:07 AM
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          At our Jane Austen Ball this weekend in Rochester, NY, we'd like to announce the promotion of one of the attendees from Lt. to Captain in the 1812 RN. We don't have a clue what to say and would appreciate some advice. Thanks.

          -Vive
        • Kevin Windsor
          Isn t the next rank Commander? Or is that an appointment and not a rank? I m fuzzy on those web footed things. ~Probably because they always get me drunk~
          Message 4 of 11 , Apr 30 5:08 AM
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            Isn't the next rank Commander? Or is that an appointment and not a rank?
            I'm fuzzy on those web footed things. ~Probably because they always get me
            drunk~



            Anyway, Vive, I have no idea other than "Here ya go sucker!" then walk away
            snickering. I know that's what happened to Vic! ;-)



            Kevin Windsor

            89th Reg't



            _____

            From: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
            Of Kylie Hewitt



            At our Jane Austen Ball this weekend in Rochester, NY, we'd like to announce
            the promotion of one of the attendees from Lt. to Captain in the 1812 RN. We
            don't have a clue what to say and would appreciate some advice. Thanks.

            -Vive



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          • petemonahan@sympatico.ca
            That s a big help, Mr. Windsor! (insert sarcasm smiley here.) Actually, in his own left-footed way, Mr Windsor has suggested the solution: contact
            Message 5 of 11 , Apr 30 6:20 AM
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              That's a big help, Mr. Windsor! (insert "sarcasm smiley" here.)

              Actually, in his own left-footed way, Mr Windsor has suggested the solution: contact Commodore Vic Suthren on this list. He'll have the proper nomenclature and wording, I'm sure.

              Peter Monahan


              Anyway, Vive, I have no idea other than "Here ya go sucker!" then walk away
              snickering. I know that's what happened to Vic! ;-)


              Kevin Windsor




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            • BritcomHMP@aol.com
              In a message dated 4/30/2009 7:09:12 AM Central Daylight Time, kevin.windsor@sympatico.ca writes: At our Jane Austen Ball this weekend in Rochester, NY, we d
              Message 6 of 11 , Apr 30 8:40 AM
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                In a message dated 4/30/2009 7:09:12 AM Central Daylight Time,
                kevin.windsor@... writes:

                At our Jane Austen Ball this weekend in Rochester, NY, we'd like to
                announce
                the promotion of one of the attendees from Lt. to Captain in the 1812 RN.
                We
                don't have a clue what to say and would appreciate some advice. Thanks.

                -Vive


                ------------------------------------

                As Kevin rightly says that would be a heck of a jump in rank the ranks ion
                acending order are:
                Lieutenant - Lt. Commander - Commander - Captain

                The RN Captain being the equivielnt in rank of an Army in this fashion

                Captain commanding a post ship over 3 years service = Colonel
                Captain commanding a post ship = Major
                Captain not taking post =
                Captain

                Cheers,

                Tim
                **************Big savings on Dell XPS Laptops and
                Desktops!(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1219491521x1201306563/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.double
                click.net%2Fclk%3B214102108%3B35952091%3Bs)


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • BritcomHMP@aol.com
                In a message dated 4/30/2009 10:41:53 AM Central Daylight Time, BritcomHMP@aol.com writes: As Kevin rightly says that would be a heck of a jump in rank the
                Message 7 of 11 , Apr 30 8:49 AM
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                  In a message dated 4/30/2009 10:41:53 AM Central Daylight Time,
                  BritcomHMP@... writes:

                  As Kevin rightly says that would be a heck of a jump in rank the ranks ion

                  acending order are:
                  Lieutenant - Lt. Commander - Commander - Captain



                  --------------------------------

                  Oops! my old Sea Cadet mind kicked in there, that should have been:

                  Lieutenant under 8 years service
                  Lieutenant over 8 years service
                  Commander
                  Captain

                  **************Big savings on Dell XPS Laptops and
                  Desktops!(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1219491521x1201306563/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.double
                  click.net%2Fclk%3B214102108%3B35952091%3Bs)


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • annbwass@aol.com
                  Yes, but that is in the MODERN Navy.? He is correct that commander was not a rank in the early U.S. Navy (my knowledge on the Royal Navy is fuzzier, but
                  Message 8 of 11 , Apr 30 9:55 AM
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                    Yes, but that is in the MODERN Navy.? He is correct that "commander" was not a rank in the early U.S. Navy (my knowledge on the Royal Navy is fuzzier, but wasn't it also true there?? If he were lucky, a man was promoted from lieutenant to captain?)??The U.S. Navy had no admirals, either, until the American Civil War.

                    Ann Wass


                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: BritcomHMP@...
                    To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                    Sent: Thu, 30 Apr 2009 11:49 am
                    Subject: Re: 1812 Promotion Announcement









                    In a message dated 4/30/2009 10:41:53 AM Central Daylight Time,
                    BritcomHMP@... writes:

                    As Kevin rightly says that would be a heck of a jump in rank the ranks ion

                    acending order are:
                    Lieutenant - Lt. Commander - Commander - Captain

                    --------------------------------

                    Oops! my old Sea Cadet mind kicked in there, that should have been:

                    Lieutenant under 8 years service
                    Lieutenant over 8 years service
                    Commander
                    Captain

                    **************Big savings on Dell XPS Laptops and
                    Desktops!(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1219491521x1201306563/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.double
                    click.net%2Fclk%3B214102108%3B35952091%3Bs)

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]








                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • BritcomHMP@aol.com
                    In a message dated 4/30/2009 12:09:15 PM Central Daylight Time, annbwass@aol.com writes: Yes, but that is in the MODERN Navy.? He is correct that commander
                    Message 9 of 11 , Apr 30 10:21 AM
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                      In a message dated 4/30/2009 12:09:15 PM Central Daylight Time,
                      annbwass@... writes:

                      Yes, but that is in the MODERN Navy.? He is correct that "commander" was
                      not a rank in the early U.S. Navy (my knowledge on the Royal Navy is
                      fuzzier, but wasn't it also true there?? If he were lucky, a man was promoted from
                      lieutenant to captain?)??The U.S. Navy had no admirals, either, until the
                      American Civil War.


                      --------------------------------

                      I corrected myself on the Lt. Commander rank Ann, but Commander was a rank
                      at the time, basicaly it was for a commander of a ship that was too small
                      to have a 'captain' in command (though said officer usualy got the courtesy
                      of being called Captain). The other important officer, though in the
                      administrative rather than executive branch, was the Sailing Master but there
                      were some Commanders who acted as their own Sailing masters thereby being
                      known as 'Master and Commander'. Hey, sounds like a good title for a book, even
                      a film!

                      Cheers,

                      Tim
                      **************Big savings on Dell XPS Laptops and
                      Desktops!(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/100126575x1219491521x1201306563/aol?redir=http:%2F%2Fad.double
                      click.net%2Fclk%3B214102108%3B35952091%3Bs)


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Tom Hurlbut
                      Hi there! The promotion from Lieutenant to Captain was not unheard of although the intermediate step Commander was certainly the one that most would take. In
                      Message 10 of 11 , Apr 30 11:41 AM
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                        Hi there!

                        The promotion from Lieutenant to Captain was not unheard of although the intermediate step Commander was certainly the one that most would take.

                        In the vessel, Lieutenants were ranked according to their date of commision, so the first officer was the senior Lt., literally.

                        Sometimes, a Lieutenant was made commander of a vessel, such as a gun brig, schooner, ketch or cutter (all types of rigs) and he would be referred to as a "Lieutenant and Commander", (towards the end of the war it sometimes being called Lt. Commander) but he was still a Lt.

                        Through whatever means a Lieutenant impressed the higher ups (patronage or merit), he might be promoted "Master and Commander" known as Commander and might even get a command, the vessel being called a "Sloop of War" which could be rigged as a brig (two masts) or ship (three masts) but would be rated at less than 20 guns, that being reserved for "proper" "Post" Captains. On board, the Commander would be referred to as "Captain".

                        If he received a promotion to Captain, the fellow was normally set for life, eventually becoming an Admiral in due time, provided he lived long enough. He would command a vessel of 20 guns or more, normally ship rigged although during the 1812 war, there were a number of large brigs that were rated "Post Ships" referring to their large number of guns and the need for a "Post Captain" to command.

                        If a Captain demonstrated talent (like Nelson) possibly superior to that of his "betters", he might receive a posting as "Commodore" and be given a flotilla or Squadron to command. A First Class Commodore had a Captain under him to run his ship, a Second Class Commodore had to run his own ship as well as the squadron. This was a temporary posting. He was still a captain and would revert to that rank when his job was done.

                        During the Napoleonic Wars, there was a need for good senior officers and the Admiralty promoted a bunch of Captains just to get to the ones they wanted (like Nelson). Just because you were an Admiral, didn't mean they had to employ you.

                        As this practice became rather expensive, taking a bunch of supersenior Captains and promoting them to life long half pay as Admirals, they began to bypass some less deserving Captains. Since the promotion was to the various coloured squadrons (Blue, White and Red in ascending order of seniority) these superceeded Captains were said to be "Yellowed" or Rear Admirals of the Yellow Squadron, one that did not exist. It must have been a bitter pill to swallow.

                        Within Crown Forces (the re-enactors) we determined that the ranks should be associated with the skills to go with them. No-one in the Crown Forces Naval Establishments can expect to command anything without passing some sort of competency criteria and our Lieutenants pass their "Boards" by being grilled by merciless senior officers to see if they're worthy. (I'm still having nightmares!)

                        And our Captains have internationally recognised "Masters" papers that would allow them to command real vessels on international waterways. For Crown Forces, they must also have tall ship experience.

                        This is to ensure that somebody who dresses as Nelson and expects to command us is competant. The issue here is that boats/ships have greater potential for hurt than many things. I won't risk my boats and people to anybody unless I know they have the necessary skills. A real naval officer is someone I would trust and a graduate of Crown Forces Naval Establishments Board and is ranked Lieutenant, Commander or Captain is competant.

                        I think Kylie is just looking for words to use as part of the celebration. I would think that a copy of orders would fill the bill.

                        "From the Admiralty

                        You are hereby directed to repair aboard His Majesty's Ship Unbelievable (150 guns!) and assume the rank of Captain, where you are to make the ship in all aspects ready for sea for a period of no less than 6 months, then join the squadron off of Toulon under Rear-Admiral A.S. Pompous, and commence the duties of blockade.

                        Signed, this day,
                        Sir Henry Henry,
                        First Lord"

                        Command might be harbour duty or a company of Sea Fencibles, or whatever this fellow will command, your choice.

                        I hope that helps.

                        "Lt." Tom
                        CFNANE
                        Officer Commanding,
                        Lake Simcoe and Upper Lakes Station

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