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RE: NCO School and the Serj Maj

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  • Kevin Windsor
    How passive agressive of you! Should you not already be at the fort waiting for the men to get there so you can tell them how late they really are!! KW To:
    Message 1 of 19 , Apr 2, 2009
      How passive agressive of you! Should you not already be at the fort waiting for the men to get there so you can tell them how late they really are!!

      KW


      To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com


      PS: will you be joing us at the NCO School, ABOUT WHICH WE HAVE HEARD SO MUCH of late? :7)

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Kevin Windsor
      Congratulations Major Hobbs!! Sniff. . . sniff. . . and to think I knew him when he was just a private and me a lowly corporal! KW 89th _____ From:
      Message 2 of 19 , Apr 2, 2009
        Congratulations Major Hobbs!!



        Sniff. . . sniff. . . and to think I knew him when he was just a private and
        me a lowly corporal!



        KW

        89th





        _____

        From: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
        Of Craig Williams



        With permission of Brig. Gen. Twist,

        I would like to forward the following announcement to the members of
        the Crown Forces and the reenactment community of the North American
        War (1812).

        Effective immediately, Ray Hobbs, Hon. Col. 41st, (having stepped
        down from active field command in the same regiment),
        has agreed to take on the duties and responsibilities of Aide de
        Camp, (with the Army rank of Major), to Lt. Col. Williams.



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • HAROLD DENNISON
        Aye but it s an even greater pleasure to share a dram wi them!  :) I add my congratulations to the list, Sir. Hal Dennison 1-800-385-9630
        Message 3 of 19 , Apr 2, 2009
          Aye but it's an even greater pleasure to share a dram wi' them!  :)
          I add my congratulations to the list, Sir.


          Hal Dennison
          1-800-385-9630
          www.JustDreamLife.com
           
          I teach people like "you" how to make six figure incomes working from home.

          --- On Thu, 4/2/09, Victor Suthren <suthren@...> wrote:

          From: Victor Suthren <suthren@...>
          Subject: Re: 1812 Staff appointment welcomed
          To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
          Received: Thursday, April 2, 2009, 3:14 PM






          Mr Hobbs and Mr Williams are very fine men indeed. It's a pleasure to share a hobby with them.

          Vic Suthren

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: peter monahan
          To: WarOf1812@yahoogrou ps.com
          Sent: Thursday, April 02, 2009 2:22 PM
          Subject: 1812 Staff appointment welcomed

          Mr. Hobbs,

          Would that I were able to say "Let me be the first to congratulate you!" but, alas the best I can do is to be the sixth or seventh to do so. Neverthelesss, my feelings are sincere and deeply held. I should also take the oppurtuinity to tell you, should you not be aware of it, how lucky you are to work with that epitome of military virtue, the brave, the able, the modest Colonel Williams.

          Yr most obedient, sir

          Sergeant Major Toady

          PS: will you be joing us at the NCO School, ABOUT WHICH WE HAVE HEARD SO MUCH of late? :7)

          ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- -

          No virus found in this incoming message.
          Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
          Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.11.38/2037 - Release Date: 04/02/09 06:09:00

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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • JGIL1812@aol.com
          In a message dated 4/2/2009 5:32:45 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, kevin.windsor@sympatico.ca writes:
          Message 4 of 19 , Apr 2, 2009
            In a message dated 4/2/2009 5:32:45 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
            kevin.windsor@... writes:

            <<Sniff. . . sniff. . . and to think I knew him when he was just a private
            and
            me a lowly corporal!>>
            Now Kevin,

            You're are showing your commoner roots there! Up age from the rankers will
            never do!

            JG/RE


            **************Feeling the pinch at the grocery store? Make dinner for $10 or
            less. (http://food.aol.com/frugal-feasts?ncid=emlcntusfood00000001)


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Kevin Garrett
            ... All joking aside, I cannot think of a more refined and knowledgeable re-enactor for the job . Kevin Royal Scots Grens
            Message 5 of 19 , Apr 3, 2009
              --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, JGIL1812@... wrote:
              >
              > <<Sniff. . . sniff. . . and to think I knew him when he was just a private > and> me a lowly corporal!>>

              >
              > You're are showing your commoner roots there! Up age from the rankers will
              > never do!
              >
              >> Ummmm....so let me get this right: Mr. Hobbs WAS a private and when I met him he was a CAPTAIN and then he retired and became an HONORARY LIEUTENANT COLONEL and then he got an appointment as a MAJOR but he'll be wearing the uniform of a CAPTAIN .....I'M SO CONFUSED!?!

              All joking aside, I cannot think of a more refined and knowledgeable re-enactor for the job .

              Kevin
              Royal Scots Grens
              >
              > >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • BritcomHMP@aol.com
              In a message dated 4/3/2009 4:00:37 PM Central Daylight Time, ray.hobbs@sympatico.ca writes: I have a copy of a miniature of Frederick Bligh of the 41st, who
              Message 6 of 19 , Apr 3, 2009
                In a message dated 4/3/2009 4:00:37 PM Central Daylight Time,
                ray.hobbs@... writes:

                I have a copy of a miniature of Frederick Bligh of
                the 41st, who retired in 1856 with the rank of Captain (Brevet Major).
                In the painting he is wearing the collar badges of rank of a Lieutenant
                Colonel. Go figure.



                ------------

                Ah Ray, this is one I can tell you about. Collar rank was very strange in
                that, with only two badges to use, in order to determine rank one must also look
                at the gold lace edging of the collar. All collars were laced around the
                front and collar but field officers also had lace on the bottom of the collar so
                junior officers, with no lace on the bottom:
                Ensign/ 2nd Lt. a single Bath star (pip)
                Lieutenant a single crown
                Captain a star and crown

                Field officers, with lace at the bottom of the collar:
                Major a single Bath star (pip)
                Lt. Colonel a single crown
                Colonel a star and crown

                So he is probably corectly badged for a captain. It was only when the rank
                badges were moved to the shoulder straps/cords that 3 'pips' became the badges
                for a captain.

                The other situation seems most strange although if Shortt had a higher army
                rank than his regimental rank he would certainly be allowed to wear that rank
                with his regimentals.
                Another posibility is that if he reached that rank later in life he might
                have had the artist go back and 'update' his picture. I have seen this done on
                the portrait of the French General Rapp in the museum at Colmar. He is
                depicted in the late revolutionary/early Imperial generals uniform with red collar
                and cuffs but has all of his orders and decorations including those of
                Royalist France post 1815!

                Have you had a look at the picture under a black light?

                Cheers,

                Tim

                **************Hurry! April 15th is almost here. File your Federal taxes FREE
                with TaxACT.
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                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Ray Hobbs
                Ah, Kevin. Let me wade into this confusion. As Captain I held a substantive rank, i.e. at the time I would have been gazetted . That means the rank would have
                Message 7 of 19 , Apr 3, 2009
                  Ah, Kevin. Let me wade into this confusion.

                  As Captain I held a substantive rank, i.e. at the time I would have
                  been "gazetted". That means the rank would have been recognised by
                  Horse Guards and published. It would have been recognised by both the
                  Regiment, and HG. My command would have been a company within the
                  regiment.
                  Upon retirement from said position, I was granted the signal honour
                  (note the word) of being appointed, by the 41st MLHG, as Honorary
                  Colonel. It is purely an advisory role, and was a flattering
                  recognition of my contribution to the 41st. I could swan around in my
                  new epaulettes, and be completely ignored by the rank and file. Captain
                  Fournier is their CO, and I would not assume to command the regiment on
                  the field.
                  Having retired from field command, I would technically be said to have
                  been a half-pay captain.
                  Now, having been called out of retirement to serve as Col. Williams'
                  AdC, I have been granted the army rank of Major. Whether the 41st
                  recognise that rank or not within their structure is entirely their
                  decision. But I have it on the highest authority that my honorary rank
                  still holds.
                  I will note that during the War of 1812, William Shortt held two ranks
                  - Captain (Regimental) and Lieutenant Colonel (Army).
                  Just to confuse the issue, in the Canadas during the War of 1812 there
                  was the practice of "local rank" in which a regular army captain
                  automatically outranked a local militia officer when serving in that
                  militia officer's county. Captain (Brevet Major) Adam Muir of the 41st
                  held for a brief time the rank of Lieutenant Colonel when commanding
                  some militia units. As soon as he returned to his HQ or regular
                  posting, the rank was removed. For these local ranks there was no
                  increase in pay.
                  Just to confuse matters even further, badges of rank were, shall we
                  say, interesting. I have a copy of a miniature of Frederick Bligh of
                  the 41st, who retired in 1856 with the rank of Captain (Brevet Major).
                  In the painting he is wearing the collar badges of rank of a Lieutenant
                  Colonel. Go figure.
                  I also have a copy of a painting of William Shortt, wearing a uniform
                  of the 24th Foot, just before he transferred to the 41st - he is
                  wearing a major's epaulettes. This is a rank he never held in either
                  regiment. Again, go figure.
                  Now, I am sure you are still confused - but at a much higher level. :-)

                  But seriously folks (ugh!) - thank you all who have offered
                  congratulations.
                  Yr Humble and Obdt Svt
                  Ray H


                  On 3-Apr-09, at 3:11 PM, Kevin Garrett wrote:

                  > --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, JGIL1812@... wrote:
                  > >
                  > > <<Sniff. . . sniff. . . and to think I knew him when he was just a
                  > private > and> me a lowly corporal!>>
                  >
                  > >
                  > > You're are showing your commoner roots there! Up age from the
                  > rankers will
                  > > never do!
                  > >
                  > >> Ummmm....so let me get this right: Mr. Hobbs WAS a private and
                  > when I met him he was a CAPTAIN and then he retired and became an
                  > HONORARY LIEUTENANT COLONEL and then he got an appointment as a MAJOR
                  > but he'll be wearing the uniform of a CAPTAIN .....I'M SO CONFUSED!?!
                  >
                  > All joking aside, I cannot think of a more refined and knowledgeable
                  > re-enactor for the job .
                  >
                  > Kevin
                  > Royal Scots Grens
                  > >
                  > > >
                  > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  > >
                  >
                  >


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Kevin Garrett
                  ... Dear CaptainColonelMajorCaptain Hobbs AdeC, ... See what I mean about him being knowledgeable, folks? Kevin MCpl 76/Capt 89/A/Maj 03/ Ret d 06 CF
                  Message 8 of 19 , Apr 4, 2009
                    > >> > All joking aside, I cannot think of a more refined and knowledgeable
                    > > re-enactor for the job .



                    Dear CaptainColonelMajorCaptain Hobbs AdeC,
                    > >
                    >>Thank you Sir for elucidating the fuzzification!

                    See what I mean about him being knowledgeable, folks?

                    Kevin
                    MCpl '76/Capt '89/A/Maj '03/ Ret'd '06 CF Reserve
                    Playing a grunt Infantry Pioneer and Haberdasher to those of refined taste.
                    Royal Scots Grens
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