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advancing the guns

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  • peter monahan
    Good morning Just came from You Tube, where I was watching Michael Matthews clip of Mississinewa. A clip which also showed up with it I found quiote
    Message 1 of 7 , Nov 3, 2008
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      Good morning

      Just came from You Tube, where I was watching Michael Matthews clip of
      Mississinewa. A clip which also showed up with it I found quiote
      intriguing. Google 'the battle of Deltuva, Lithuania, Ukmerge 2008'.

      In brief, it shows 3 reenactors each advancing a gun in concert with an
      infantry advance. There's a shot of one as the clip begins and it
      appears to be pwerhaps -I'm no gunner - a 2/3 scale 4 pounder on a full
      size carriage.

      My point is that this tactical use might have application in our period
      and on our field. Whether it is historically acceptable and can be
      safely done I leave to the swabbies and gunners to fight out.

      Cheers
      Peter
    • mimathews@comcast.net
      I ve seen it done with full size and lesser guns in North America and Europe. At the F&I Grand Encampment 2 and the last F&I event at Fort Meigs some
      Message 2 of 7 , Nov 3, 2008
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        I've seen it done with full size and lesser guns in North America and Europe. At the F&I Grand Encampment 2 and the last F&I event at Fort Meigs some artillery pieces kept up with the advance of the line. It allowed them to shoot more often and provide historic direct support. This was usually a single piece on each end of the line. Obviously at some point their field of fire (angle) was restricted or reduced to the point where they had to cease fire. In some cases they then unslung their muskets and continued to fire. Hard working crews indeed.

        In Europe at Austerlitz we had a four gun battery of full size guns (4 pdrs.) that stayed on our right the entire battle, dragged over the snowy ground. Of course there the safety requirements are lax or non-existent compared to NA. I have a picture taken from behind said battery and you can literally see the eyes of the Austrian grenadiers to their front. Along those lines on the continent (not the UK) they habitually ram cartridges and if the enemy is too close there is none of this elevating nonsense but they fire into the ground a few paces to the front.

        So yes with a strong, able-bodied gun crew and an open field the roles of guns can be much expanded beyond firing three shots and becoming spectators. The caveat is that in each case the fields of engagement were acres or miles in size and the armies had a huge amount of open ground (by Mississinewa standards) to work with safely. Not all of our arenas are so blessed.

        Michael Mathews, former artilleryman

        --
        A Truism - For every action, there is an equal and opposite criticism.

        -------------- Original message --------------
        From: "peter monahan" petemonahan@...
        Good morning

        Just came from You Tube, where I was watching Michael Mathews clip of
        Mississinewa. A clip which also showed up with it I found quote
        intriguing. Google 'the battle of Deltuva, Lithuania, Ukmerge 2008'.

        In brief, it shows 3 reenactors each advancing a gun in concert with an
        infantry advance. There's a shot of one as the clip begins and it
        appears to be pwerhaps -I'm no gunner - a 2/3 scale 4 pounder on a full
        size carriage.

        My point is that this tactical use might have application in our period
        and on our field. Whether it is historically acceptable and can be
        safely done I leave to the swabbies and gunners to fight out.

        Cheers
        Peter


        ood morning

        Just came from You Tube, where I was watching Michael Matthews clip of
        Mississinewa. A clip which also showed up with it I found quiote
        intriguing. Google 'the battle of Deltuva, Lithuania, Ukmerge 2008'.

        In brief, it shows 3 reenactors each advancing a gun in concert with an
        infantry advance. There's a shot of one as the clip begins and it
        appears to be pwerhaps -I'm no gunner - a 2/3 scale 4 pounder on a full
        size carriage.

        My point is that this tactical use might have application in our period
        and on our field. Whether it is historically acceptable and can be
        safely done I leave to the swabbies and gunners to fight out.

        Cheers
        Peter



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • suthren@magma.ca
        Peter In 1998 I was with a battery of two naval gun crews with 3-pounders at a Rev War event at Quebec. We were fitter than the infantry and stayed on the
        Message 3 of 7 , Nov 3, 2008
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          Peter

          In 1998 I was with a battery of two naval gun crews with 3-pounders at a Rev War event at Quebec. We were fitter than the infantry and stayed on the flanks easily as they moved. Officers in command were so unnerved by the experience, however, that we were relegated to static battery firing the next day. Not everyone can handle moving guns.

          Vic
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: peter monahan
          To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 7:40 AM
          Subject: 1812 advancing the guns


          Good morning

          Just came from You Tube, where I was watching Michael Matthews clip of
          Mississinewa. A clip which also showed up with it I found quiote
          intriguing. Google 'the battle of Deltuva, Lithuania, Ukmerge 2008'.

          In brief, it shows 3 reenactors each advancing a gun in concert with an
          infantry advance. There's a shot of one as the clip begins and it
          appears to be pwerhaps -I'm no gunner - a 2/3 scale 4 pounder on a full
          size carriage.

          My point is that this tactical use might have application in our period
          and on our field. Whether it is historically acceptable and can be
          safely done I leave to the swabbies and gunners to fight out.

          Cheers
          Peter





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • whittakermp
          Peter: As a member of the Continetal Line s United Train of Artillery of Rhode Island, I can say on most occasions our three-pounder gun(s) and others are
          Message 4 of 7 , Nov 3, 2008
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            Peter:

            As a member of the Continetal Line's United Train of Artillery of
            Rhode Island, I can say on most occasions our three-pounder gun(s)
            and others are employed as battalion guns in line with the infantry
            and move accordingly.

            In the past, the UTA has held artillery schools in which the
            infantry participated. I have found most CL units are comfortable
            with the guns in the field.

            From time to time, some members of the opposing line approaches too
            closely to the guns. This is diminshing with education.

            However, I have seen, when in battery, the other side disregard the
            guns and come too close. We withdraw and they claim victory. Ah, for
            the lack of cannister and grape. Their officers seen of late more
            inclined to pull their rankers back from the muzzles.

            I have been with the UTA more than 10 years and our preferred modus
            operandi has been as battalion guns.

            The UTA has three rules. Be safe; be happy; or go home. If one or
            both of the first can't be met, put the third into operation.

            Safety is always paramount.

            Michael
          • BritcomHMP@aol.com
            Officers in command were so unnerved by the experience, however, that we were relegated to static battery firing the next day. Not everyone can handle moving
            Message 5 of 7 , Nov 3, 2008
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              Officers in command were so unnerved by the experience, however, that we were relegated to static battery firing the next day. Not everyone can handle moving guns.





              --------------------------------------

              Vic,

              I would hate to think that our 1812 officers were so 'windy' guns, properly and safely handled are a great asset and frankly if it worries those commanding the infantry, then they need more training. With our current crop of 1812 officers, routinely riding horses in action and use to working with all arms of the service I think that moving guns would be no problem, given a large enough field of course!

              Cheers,

              Tim



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Stephen Allie
              Used to command a horse drawn section (2 Guns) with fully mounted crew worked with both foot and horse never was a problem in coordination or safety. Trust and
              Message 6 of 7 , Nov 3, 2008
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                Used to command a horse drawn section (2 Guns) with fully mounted crew
                worked with both foot and horse never was a problem in coordination or
                safety. Trust and training are the key.
                Capt. Allie
                95th
              • LCpl_rm
                Chris Ward at the GT moved his gun up as the line moved forward. Granted that he kept well to the side of the line as to make sure there were no infractions
                Message 7 of 7 , Nov 3, 2008
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                  Chris Ward at the GT moved his gun up as the line moved forward. Granted that he kept well to the side of the line as to make sure there were no infractions or reactions whatsoever but he still kept pace to the advance with no problems from the MD Park personnel. When we moved onto the hill skirmish, Chris moved from the right of the line to the left in support.

                  Cheers,

                  Ed Seufert, Cpl
                  1812 Royal Marines
                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: BritcomHMP@...
                  To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 11:27 AM
                  Subject: Re: 1812 advancing the guns




                  Officers in command were so unnerved by the experience, however, that we were relegated to static battery firing the next day. Not everyone can handle moving guns.

                  --------------------------------------

                  Vic,

                  I would hate to think that our 1812 officers were so 'windy' guns, properly and safely handled are a great asset and frankly if it worries those commanding the infantry, then they need more training. With our current crop of 1812 officers, routinely riding horses in action and use to working with all arms of the service I think that moving guns would be no problem, given a large enough field of course!

                  Cheers,

                  Tim


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