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Re: 5th Lincoln Militia

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  • Dave Westhouse
    Chris, Obviously the other units portraying other Lincoln Militia units would be of great help. Other than that, read the drill manual and attend the
    Message 1 of 28 , Sep 1, 2008
      Chris,

      Obviously the other units portraying other Lincoln Militia units would
      be of great help. Other than that, read the drill manual and attend
      the Officer/NCO school in April. Someone to run you through it all
      would help too.

      Why the change?

      Dave Westhouse,
      1st Royal Scots Battn.





      ...but If anyone hasany information I could use to help portray this
      unit as well as we can it would be greatly appreciated. Commands,
      drills, etc..

      God save the king

      Signed, Captain Wilkinson of the 5th Lincoln Militia
    • ronpontiac
      ... has ... Hi Chris, Assuming that you will be portraying one of the flank companies, probably the best bet for uniform would be to pick a period and go with
      Message 2 of 28 , Sep 1, 2008
        --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Chris" <littlefeatherscrafts@...>
        wrote:

        > I do have some stuff from when I was with the unit, but If anyone
        has
        > any information I could use to help portray this unit as well as we
        > can it would be greatly appreciated.


        Hi Chris,

        Assuming that you will be portraying one of the flank companies,
        probably the best bet for uniform would be to pick a period and go
        with that:

        June 1812----Civilian clothing
        August 1812--Old, beat up faded 41st Regiment coattees for those
        portraying men who went to Detroit with Brock--others in Civilian
        dress

        Summer 1813-December 1814: Officers in Red coats with blue facings,
        buttons in pairs, limited gold lace; men represent a bit of
        problem. The orders say green faced red uniforms. Did this mean red
        coats with green facings or green coats with red facings? Supporting
        documents remain confusing at best but it seems that more red cloth
        was sent out, suggesting that red may have been the colour. All
        surviving Lincoln Militia officers' coattees are red coats with blue
        facings. The headdress could be a "stovepipe" shako or, by the last
        year of the war, a belgic shako. Trousers grey. Belts?? Hard
        call. There were many, many black belts sent out from stores in
        Quebec for the militia but whether or not buff belts were received
        by 1814 would require more concentrated research.

        As per drill etc., the flank companies were well-drilled in the
        standard British platoon and manual exercises.

        Have fun,

        Ron Dale
      • Chris
        ... Was thinking at camp this past weekend, Was thinking on what fun we had back in the day. I joined the 5th Lincoln Militia Back in 1984 and in the mid to
        Message 3 of 28 , Sep 2, 2008
          > Chris,
          >
          > Obviously the other units portraying other Lincoln Militia units would
          > be of great help. Other than that, read the drill manual and attend
          > the Officer/NCO school in April. Someone to run you through it all
          > would help too.
          >
          > Why the change?
          >
          > Dave Westhouse,
          > 1st Royal Scots Battn.

          Was thinking at camp this past weekend, Was thinking on what fun we
          had back in the day.
          I joined the 5th Lincoln Militia Back in 1984 and in the mid to late
          1990's the group went it's own way. Since that date we have lost a few
          good men. I said to my wife I want to bring back The 5th Lincoln. One
          so we can pay respect to the men that fought back in 1812 to 1813,
          Also for the Men that I grew up with and has past on to.
          So this is the reason for the Change. See you all this weekend!

          God save the king

          Signed, Captain Wilkinson of the 5th Lincoln Militia
        • John Potter
          G day all, Just noticed the reference to the Officer / NCO school in April. Assuming that this is for British Napoleonic forces, can someone please enlighten
          Message 4 of 28 , Sep 2, 2008
            G'day all,

            Just noticed the reference to the Officer / NCO school in April.
            Assuming that this is for British Napoleonic forces, can someone
            please enlighten me as to where and when this will be happening..?
            Which manual do you follow here..? Are you linked in with the drill
            and organisation of the British Napoleonic Association and/or the
            British Battalion of the European Napoleonic Society..?

            Thanks,

            John


            --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Westhouse" <westhouse@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > Chris,
            >
            > Obviously the other units portraying other Lincoln Militia units
            would
            > be of great help. Other than that, read the drill manual and attend
            > the Officer/NCO school in April. Someone to run you through it all
            > would help too.
            >
            > Why the change?
            >
            > Dave Westhouse,
            > 1st Royal Scots Battn.
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > ...but If anyone hasany information I could use to help portray this
            > unit as well as we can it would be greatly appreciated. Commands,
            > drills, etc..
            >
            > God save the king
            >
            > Signed, Captain Wilkinson of the 5th Lincoln Militia
            >
          • Gord Deans
            John, This school is held in April of each year at Fort York, Toronto, Ontario for the NCOs and officers of 1812 British Crown Forces units. These unit leaders
            Message 5 of 28 , Sep 2, 2008
              John,

              This school is held in April of each year at Fort York, Toronto,
              Ontario for the NCOs and officers of 1812 British Crown Forces units.
              These unit leaders get refreshment training and drill in the manual of
              arms and parade as practiced by 1812 units in order that they can in
              turn train their units before the reenactment season begins in May at
              Longwoods, near London, Ontario.

              Versions of the manual of arms can be found at the web sites of some
              infantry units such as the 1st Royal Scots.

              This is separate from any Napoleonic associations.

              Gord Deans,
              HMS Charwell Landing Party.

              -----Original Message-----
              From: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com] On
              Behalf Of John Potter
              Sent: September 2, 2008 10:36 PM
              To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: 1812 Officer / NCO school..?


              G'day all,

              Just noticed the reference to the Officer / NCO school in April.
              Assuming that this is for British Napoleonic forces, can someone
              please enlighten me as to where and when this will be happening..?
              Which manual do you follow here..? Are you linked in with the drill
              and organisation of the British Napoleonic Association and/or the
              British Battalion of the European Napoleonic Society..?

              Thanks,

              John


              --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Westhouse" <westhouse@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > Chris,
              >
              > Obviously the other units portraying other Lincoln Militia units
              would
              > be of great help. Other than that, read the drill manual and attend
              > the Officer/NCO school in April. Someone to run you through it all
              > would help too.
              >
              > Why the change?
              >
              > Dave Westhouse,
              > 1st Royal Scots Battn.
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > ...but If anyone hasany information I could use to help portray this
              > unit as well as we can it would be greatly appreciated. Commands,
              > drills, etc..
              >
              > God save the king
              >
              > Signed, Captain Wilkinson of the 5th Lincoln Militia
              >



              ------------------------------------

              War of 1812 Living History:
              A wide-ranging information exchange
              for all participants and supporters


              Unit Contact information for North America:
              Crown Forces Unit Listing:
              http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
              American Forces Unit Listing
              http://usforces1812.tripod.com

              WAR OF 1812 EVENTS LIST:
              http://royal.scots.tripod.com/warof1812eventslistYahoo! Groups
              Links
            • John Potter
              Thanks Gord, I ll check out some websites to see how the manual/s of arms compare with what I m used to. I was intrigued at your separation of 1812 stuff from
              Message 6 of 28 , Sep 2, 2008
                Thanks Gord,

                I'll check out some websites to see how the manual/s of arms compare
                with what I'm used to. I was intrigued at your separation of 1812
                stuff from the broader Napoleonic scene - isn't the War of 1812
                considered part of the Napoleonic Wars here..?

                Cheers,

                John


                --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Gord Deans" <gord.deans@...> wrote:
                >
                > John,
                >
                > This school is held in April of each year at Fort York, Toronto,
                > Ontario for the NCOs and officers of 1812 British Crown Forces
                units.
                > These unit leaders get refreshment training and drill in the manual
                of
                > arms and parade as practiced by 1812 units in order that they can in
                > turn train their units before the reenactment season begins in May
                at
                > Longwoods, near London, Ontario.
                >
                > Versions of the manual of arms can be found at the web sites of some
                > infantry units such as the 1st Royal Scots.
                >
                > This is separate from any Napoleonic associations.
                >
                > Gord Deans,
                > HMS Charwell Landing Party.
                >
                > -----Original Message-----
                > From: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com]
                On
                > Behalf Of John Potter
                > Sent: September 2, 2008 10:36 PM
                > To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                > Subject: 1812 Officer / NCO school..?
                >
                >
                > G'day all,
                >
                > Just noticed the reference to the Officer / NCO school in April.
                > Assuming that this is for British Napoleonic forces, can someone
                > please enlighten me as to where and when this will be happening..?
                > Which manual do you follow here..? Are you linked in with the drill
                > and organisation of the British Napoleonic Association and/or the
                > British Battalion of the European Napoleonic Society..?
                >
                > Thanks,
                >
                > John
                >
                >
                > --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Westhouse" <westhouse@>
                > wrote:
                > >
                > > Chris,
                > >
                > > Obviously the other units portraying other Lincoln Militia units
                > would
                > > be of great help. Other than that, read the drill manual and
                attend
                > > the Officer/NCO school in April. Someone to run you through it all
                > > would help too.
                > >
                > > Why the change?
                > >
                > > Dave Westhouse,
                > > 1st Royal Scots Battn.
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > ...but If anyone hasany information I could use to help portray
                this
                > > unit as well as we can it would be greatly appreciated. Commands,
                > > drills, etc..
                > >
                > > God save the king
                > >
                > > Signed, Captain Wilkinson of the 5th Lincoln Militia
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > War of 1812 Living History:
                > A wide-ranging information exchange
                > for all participants and supporters
                >
                >
                > Unit Contact information for North America:
                > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                > American Forces Unit Listing
                > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                >
                > WAR OF 1812 EVENTS LIST:
                > http://royal.scots.tripod.com/warof1812eventslistYahoo! Groups
                > Links
                >
              • Gord Deans
                The War of 1812 (in far away North America) was a side-issue from the European point of view and had its own unique style. American and Canadian War of 1812
                Message 7 of 28 , Sep 2, 2008
                  The War of 1812 (in far away North America) was a side-issue from the
                  European point of view and had its own unique style. American and
                  Canadian War of 1812 reenactors tend to emphasize the "local" events
                  and reflect the "local" participants, climate and terrain.

                  There are Napoleonic events and groups in North America and there is
                  some cross-participation on occasion but it would be anachronistic and
                  confusing to the public to portray Napoleonic regiments and tactics on
                  the actual sites of North American battles.

                  Many War of 1812 reenactors and units do travel to "Waterloo" each
                  year to get a "taste" of the grand Napoleonic.

                  Gord

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com] On
                  Behalf Of John Potter
                  Sent: September 2, 2008 10:57 PM
                  To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: 1812 Officer / NCO school..?


                  Thanks Gord,

                  I'll check out some websites to see how the manual/s of arms compare
                  with what I'm used to. I was intrigued at your separation of 1812
                  stuff from the broader Napoleonic scene - isn't the War of 1812
                  considered part of the Napoleonic Wars here..?

                  Cheers,

                  John


                  --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Gord Deans" <gord.deans@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > John,
                  >
                  > This school is held in April of each year at Fort York, Toronto,
                  > Ontario for the NCOs and officers of 1812 British Crown Forces
                  units.
                  > These unit leaders get refreshment training and drill in the manual
                  of
                  > arms and parade as practiced by 1812 units in order that they can in
                  > turn train their units before the reenactment season begins in May
                  at
                  > Longwoods, near London, Ontario.
                  >
                  > Versions of the manual of arms can be found at the web sites of some
                  > infantry units such as the 1st Royal Scots.
                  >
                  > This is separate from any Napoleonic associations.
                  >
                  > Gord Deans,
                  > HMS Charwell Landing Party.
                  >
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com]
                  On
                  > Behalf Of John Potter
                  > Sent: September 2, 2008 10:36 PM
                  > To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: 1812 Officer / NCO school..?
                  >
                  >
                  > G'day all,
                  >
                  > Just noticed the reference to the Officer / NCO school in April.
                  > Assuming that this is for British Napoleonic forces, can someone
                  > please enlighten me as to where and when this will be happening..?
                  > Which manual do you follow here..? Are you linked in with the drill
                  > and organisation of the British Napoleonic Association and/or the
                  > British Battalion of the European Napoleonic Society..?
                  >
                  > Thanks,
                  >
                  > John
                • mimathews@comcast.net
                  Someone pass me the popcorn. This ought to be good. ;-) Michael -- A Truism - For every action, there is an equal and opposite criticism. ... From: John
                  Message 8 of 28 , Sep 2, 2008
                    Someone pass me the popcorn. This ought to be good. ;-)

                    Michael

                    --
                    A Truism - For every action, there is an equal and opposite criticism.

                    -------------- Original message --------------
                    From: "John Potter" <potts4259@...>

                    Thanks Gord,

                    I'll check out some websites to see how the manual/s of arms compare
                    with what I'm used to. I was intrigued at your separation of 1812
                    stuff from the broader Napoleonic scene - isn't the War of 1812
                    considered part of the Napoleonic Wars here..?

                    Cheers,

                    John

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                  • Gord Deans
                    John asked: isn t the War of 1812 considered part of the Napoleonic Wars here...? The North American answer would be NO. However, taking the broader French
                    Message 9 of 28 , Sep 2, 2008
                      John asked:
                      "isn't the War of 1812 considered part of the Napoleonic Wars
                      here...?"

                      The North American answer would be "NO."

                      However, taking the broader French / Napoleonic point of view, it was
                      a second front in the Napoleonic War that was meant to distract and
                      weaken the British. I am sure that there was French intervention
                      behind the scenes to provoke the Americans into declaring war (and
                      they thought that they were just going shopping). Although the United
                      States was almost as equally prone to declare war on France as on
                      Britain as a result of the trade embargoes, French manipulations
                      probably tipped the balance.

                      "When gold changes hands, it also usually changes hearts." Who knows
                      what great American family fortune began with the War of 1812 in spite
                      of an economy that was about to collapse.

                      Michael, here is your popcorn.
                    • JGIL1812@aol.com
                      In a message dated 9/2/2008 8:18:07 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, gord.deans@sympatico.ca writes:
                      Message 10 of 28 , Sep 2, 2008
                        In a message dated 9/2/2008 8:18:07 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
                        gord.deans@... writes:

                        <<<but it would be anachronistic and
                        confusing to the public to portray Napoleonic regiments and tactics on
                        the actual sites of North American battles.>>>



                        Gord,

                        Are you saying that the British army in Canada during the Napoleonic Wars
                        didn't follow the same drill and tactics as their European bound brothers?

                        JG/RE



                        **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel
                        deal here.
                        (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • JGIL1812@aol.com
                        In a message dated 9/2/2008 8:58:55 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, gord.deans@sympatico.ca writes: Gord, With all
                        Message 11 of 28 , Sep 2, 2008
                          In a message dated 9/2/2008 8:58:55 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
                          gord.deans@... writes:

                          <<The North American answer would be "NO.">>>
                          Gord,

                          With all due respect maybe the American answer would be a resounding "NO"
                          but much of Prevost policies and tactics were driven by what was happening in
                          Europe and when Nappy was defeated many of the troops engaged in Europe ended
                          up in front of Washington, Plattsburg and New Orleans.

                          Your humble servant,
                          JG/RE





                          **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel
                          deal here.
                          (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Gord Deans
                          The British Army and Navy in North America used the same manuals, rules and regulations. War of 1812 reenactors in North America reenact actual North American
                          Message 12 of 28 , Sep 2, 2008
                            The British Army and Navy in North America used the same manuals,
                            rules and regulations.

                            War of 1812 reenactors in North America reenact actual North American
                            battles and portray actual North American regiments on original battle
                            sites and on the original scale of companies and regiments (and
                            usually without cavalry). Until Plattsburgh, there were few
                            engagements consisting of more than a couple of half-strength British
                            regiments. Some current Napoleonic reenactments are larger than any
                            actual North American battles two hundred years ago.

                            There was neither the resources nor the terrain in North America for
                            the massive armies and tactics of the Napoleonic Wars. The logistics
                            and tactics of multiple armies and divisions in well-populated areas
                            was very different from those of regiments and companies in
                            sparsely-populated areas. Armies on the scale of hundreds of
                            thousands would have starved to death after a few days in the field
                            (or before even getting to the field) in North America.

                            Some progressives will argue (not me), that Napoleonic reenacting in
                            North America (except in preparation for trips to Europe) is
                            equivalent to Middle Ages reenacting in North America -- colourful and
                            fun but not "real" or relevant to the North American experience.

                            Napoleonic reenacting and War of 1812 reenacting might "look the same"
                            but are really quite separate events, organizations and units.

                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com] On
                            Behalf Of JGIL1812@...
                            Sent: September 3, 2008 12:31 AM
                            To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: 1812 Officer / NCO school..?


                            In a message dated 9/2/2008 8:18:07 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
                            gord.deans@... writes:

                            <<<but it would be anachronistic and
                            confusing to the public to portray Napoleonic regiments and tactics
                            on
                            the actual sites of North American battles.>>>



                            Gord,

                            Are you saying that the British army in Canada during the Napoleonic
                            Wars
                            didn't follow the same drill and tactics as their European bound
                            brothers?

                            JG/RE
                          • Gord Deans
                            To reiterate my answer to John s original question - Are you linked in with the drill and organisation of the British Napoleonic Association and/or the
                            Message 13 of 28 , Sep 2, 2008
                              To reiterate my answer to John's original question -
                              "Are you linked in with the drill and organisation of the British
                              Napoleonic Association and/or the British Battalion of the European
                              Napoleonic Society...?"

                              No. The Crown Forces and War of 1812 reenacting community is not
                              "linked" with these associations / societies (the reasons for which
                              have been previously stated).

                              The drill and uniforms (of the British Army) might have been shared in
                              common and in Prevost's mind, North America might have been part of
                              the grand strategy of the Napoleonic War, but in effect it was merely
                              a struggle to save another colony to keep the British empire and pride
                              intact. I would argue that the Carribean colonies were still
                              considered more important by Britain.

                              Actually, losing British North America could have only increased
                              Britain's ability to overcome Napoleon.
                            • Iain Burns
                              Hullo John... Take a look at our (your?) website for my take on things... just click on the 1812 link.
                              Message 14 of 28 , Sep 3, 2008
                                Hullo John...

                                Take a look at our (your?) website for my take on things... just click on the "1812" link.

                                http://www.the-black-watch-lha.org/1815/<http://www.the-black-watch-lha.org/1815/>

                                Aye,
                                Iain

                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: John Potter<mailto:potts4259@...>
                                To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com<mailto:WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                                Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 10:56 PM
                                Subject: Re: 1812 Officer / NCO school..?



                                Thanks Gord,

                                I'll check out some websites to see how the manual/s of arms compare
                                with what I'm used to. I was intrigued at your separation of 1812
                                stuff from the broader Napoleonic scene - isn't the War of 1812
                                considered part of the Napoleonic Wars here..?

                                Cheers,

                                John

                                --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com<mailto:WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>, "Gord Deans" <gord.deans@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > John,
                                >
                                > This school is held in April of each year at Fort York, Toronto,
                                > Ontario for the NCOs and officers of 1812 British Crown Forces
                                units.
                                > These unit leaders get refreshment training and drill in the manual
                                of
                                > arms and parade as practiced by 1812 units in order that they can in
                                > turn train their units before the reenactment season begins in May
                                at
                                > Longwoods, near London, Ontario.
                                >
                                > Versions of the manual of arms can be found at the web sites of some
                                > infantry units such as the 1st Royal Scots.
                                >
                                > This is separate from any Napoleonic associations.
                                >
                                > Gord Deans,
                                > HMS Charwell Landing Party.
                                >
                                > -----Original Message-----
                                > From: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com<mailto:WarOf1812%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com<mailto:WarOf1812%40yahoogroups.com>]
                                On
                                > Behalf Of John Potter
                                > Sent: September 2, 2008 10:36 PM
                                > To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com<mailto:WarOf1812%40yahoogroups.com>
                                > Subject: 1812 Officer / NCO school..?
                                >
                                >
                                > G'day all,
                                >
                                > Just noticed the reference to the Officer / NCO school in April.
                                > Assuming that this is for British Napoleonic forces, can someone
                                > please enlighten me as to where and when this will be happening..?
                                > Which manual do you follow here..? Are you linked in with the drill
                                > and organisation of the British Napoleonic Association and/or the
                                > British Battalion of the European Napoleonic Society..?
                                >
                                > Thanks,
                                >
                                > John
                                >
                                >
                                > --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com<mailto:WarOf1812%40yahoogroups.com>, "Dave Westhouse" <westhouse@>
                                > wrote:
                                > >
                                > > Chris,
                                > >
                                > > Obviously the other units portraying other Lincoln Militia units
                                > would
                                > > be of great help. Other than that, read the drill manual and
                                attend
                                > > the Officer/NCO school in April. Someone to run you through it all
                                > > would help too.
                                > >
                                > > Why the change?
                                > >
                                > > Dave Westhouse,
                                > > 1st Royal Scots Battn.
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > >
                                > > ...but If anyone hasany information I could use to help portray
                                this
                                > > unit as well as we can it would be greatly appreciated. Commands,
                                > > drills, etc..
                                > >
                                > > God save the king
                                > >
                                > > Signed, Captain Wilkinson of the 5th Lincoln Militia
                                > >
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > ------------------------------------
                                >
                                > War of 1812 Living History:
                                > A wide-ranging information exchange
                                > for all participants and supporters
                                >
                                >
                                > Unit Contact information for North America:
                                > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                                > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com<http://1812crownforces.tripod.com/>
                                > American Forces Unit Listing
                                > http://usforces1812.tripod.com<http://usforces1812.tripod.com/>
                                >
                                > WAR OF 1812 EVENTS LIST:
                                > http://royal.scots.tripod.com/warof1812eventslistYahoo<http://royal.scotstripod.com/warof1812eventslistYahoo>! Groups
                                > Links
                                >





                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • BritcomHMP@aol.com
                                The (Bonapartist) French most certainly did encourage the war ad see it as a second front. When Napoleon returned from exile in Elba he sent advisors to the US
                                Message 15 of 28 , Sep 3, 2008
                                  The (Bonapartist) French most certainly did encourage the war ad see it as a second front. When Napoleon returned from exile in Elba he sent advisors to the US including Gerneral Humbert of the 'Year of the French' fame. Humbert was commanding at the attle of Ballinamuck in Ireland where the young Edward Michael Pakenhan first saw action.

                                  Humbert was with?Andrew Jackson at New Orleans and Jackson?sent him to the West Bank of the river?with re-inforcements for Morgan and originaly intended that he should take command in that sector but the troops refsed to be commanded by a "Foreigner".

                                  Cheers

                                  Tim


                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: Gord Deans <gord.deans@...>
                                  To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 10:56 pm
                                  Subject: RE: 1812 Officer / NCO school...?






                                  John asked:
                                  "isn't the War of 1812 considered part of the Napoleonic Wars
                                  here...?"

                                  The North American answer would be "NO."

                                  However, taking the broader French / Napoleonic point of view, it was
                                  a second front in the Napoleonic War that was meant to distract and
                                  weaken the British. I am sure that there was French intervention
                                  behind the scenes to provoke the Americans into declaring war (and
                                  they thought that they were just going shopping). Although the United
                                  States was almost as equally prone to declare war on France as on
                                  Britain as a result of the trade embargoes, French manipulations
                                  probably tipped the balance.

                                  "When gold changes hands, it also usually changes hearts." Who knows
                                  what great American family fortune began with the War of 1812 in spite
                                  of an economy that was about to collapse.

                                  Michael, here is your popcorn.






                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • BritcomHMP@aol.com
                                  Nonetheless the British Army in hcAmerica was the Napoleonic or rather the Wellingtonian army. Certainly it was adapted to new conditions of campaign but
                                  Message 16 of 28 , Sep 3, 2008
                                    Nonetheless the British Army in hcAmerica was the 'Napoleonic' or rather the 'Wellingtonian' army. Certainly it was adapted to new conditions of campaign but it was the same army in every respect, indeed after the first abdication of Buonapart the Naoleonic veterans shipped out to North America much to the cagin of Wellington at Waterloo who didn't have many of his veterans aailable to him.

                                    The biggest effect the Napoleonic wars had on the war of 1812 (in my opinion) was at the battle of New Oreans where, despite the urging of officers who had exerience in the Americas, Pakenham couldn't beleve that Jacksons entrnched and fortified line was anything but a death trap and so?made is first advance as a reconnasance in force rather than an all out attack (he never did have the 3 to one troop ratio that was the rule to take such a position from?seasoned troops). Had he done so he would have carried the position on December 28th.
                                    ?
                                    The Army might have had to adapt for service in North America but it most certainly was the same force used in Europe, and all ovr the world.?
                                    Which reminds me I wonder if we could?re-enact the defeat the Gurkhas in Nepal 1815, first time they had ever been conqured and the begining of their long and glorious history of service with the British Army.

                                    Cheers

                                    Tim?


                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: Gord Deans <gord.deans@...>
                                    To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 12:10 am
                                    Subject: RE: 1812 Officer / NCO school...?






                                    The British Army and Navy in North America used the same manuals,
                                    rules and regulations.

                                    War of 1812 reenactors in North America reenact actual North American
                                    battles and portray actual North American regiments on original battle
                                    sites and on the original scale of companies and regiments (and
                                    usually without cavalry). Until Plattsburgh, there were few
                                    engagements consisting of more than a couple of half-strength British
                                    regiments. Some current Napoleonic reenactments are larger than any
                                    actual North American battles two hundred years ago.

                                    There was neither the resources nor the terrain in North America for
                                    the massive armies and tactics of the Napoleonic Wars. The logistics
                                    and tactics of multiple armies and divisions in well-populated areas
                                    was very different from those of regiments and companies in
                                    sparsely-populated areas. Armies on the scale of hundreds of
                                    thousands would have starved to death after a few days in the field
                                    (or before even getting to the field) in North America.

                                    Some progressives will argue (not me), that Napoleonic reenacting in
                                    North America (except in preparation for trips to Europe) is
                                    equivalent to Middle Ages reenacting in North America -- colourful and
                                    fun but not "real" or relevant to the North American experience.

                                    Napoleonic reenacting and War of 1812 reenacting might "look the same"
                                    but are really quite separate events, organizations and units.

                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com] On
                                    Behalf Of JGIL1812@...
                                    Sent: September 3, 2008 12:31 AM
                                    To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                                    Subject: Re: 1812 Officer / NCO school..?

                                    In a message dated 9/2/2008 8:18:07 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
                                    gord.deans@... writes:

                                    <<<but it would be anachronistic and
                                    confusing to the public to portray Napoleonic regiments and tactics
                                    on
                                    the actual sites of North American battles.>>>

                                    Gord,

                                    Are you saying that the British army in Canada during the Napoleonic
                                    Wars
                                    didn't follow the same drill and tactics as their European bound
                                    brothers?

                                    JG/RE






                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Tom Hurlbut
                                    My daughter s in Nepal right now.. I ll ask her to see if they re interested.. ;-) See you at the GT! Lt. Tom ... From: BritcomHMP@aol.com To:
                                    Message 17 of 28 , Sep 3, 2008
                                      My daughter's in Nepal right now.. I'll ask her to see if they're interested.. ;-)

                                      See you at the GT!

                                      "Lt." Tom

                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      From: BritcomHMP@...
                                      To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 10:22 AM
                                      Subject: Re: 1812 Officer / NCO school...?


                                      Nonetheless the British Army in hcAmerica was the 'Napoleonic' or rather the 'Wellingtonian' army. Certainly it was adapted to new conditions of campaign but it was the same army in every respect, indeed after the first abdication of Buonapart the Naoleonic veterans shipped out to North America much to the cagin of Wellington at Waterloo who didn't have many of his veterans aailable to him.

                                      The biggest effect the Napoleonic wars had on the war of 1812 (in my opinion) was at the battle of New Oreans where, despite the urging of officers who had exerience in the Americas, Pakenham couldn't beleve that Jacksons entrnched and fortified line was anything but a death trap and so?made is first advance as a reconnasance in force rather than an all out attack (he never did have the 3 to one troop ratio that was the rule to take such a position from?seasoned troops). Had he done so he would have carried the position on December 28th.
                                      ?
                                      The Army might have had to adapt for service in North America but it most certainly was the same force used in Europe, and all ovr the world.?
                                      Which reminds me I wonder if we could?re-enact the defeat the Gurkhas in Nepal 1815, first time they had ever been conqured and the begining of their long and glorious history of service with the British Army.

                                      Cheers

                                      Tim?

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                                    • BritcomHMP@aol.com
                                      My daughter s in Nepal right now.. I ll ask her to see if they re interested.. ;-) Well, I might just stay on the sidelines for this, I know the Gurkhas get
                                      Message 18 of 28 , Sep 3, 2008
                                        My daughter's in Nepal right now.. I'll ask her to see if they're interested.. ;-)




                                        Well, I might just stay on the sidelines for this, I know the Gurkhas get very enthusiastic and their old method of dispatching senior officers (if they could get to them) was to dodge under the horse and disembowel or hamstring it, then take the head off the rider!

                                        With?1808-15 wars we often thiink of actions being confined to Europe and North America but it was very much a World War for Britain with actions in South America, India, Java, the Caibbean etc. and of course if we go back to the Revolutionary war?with France we can include Egypt, Palestine, and lots of other places too, including any ocean where a French and British ship might meet.

                                        Cheers

                                        Tim




                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • mimathews@comcast.net
                                        Exactly, some fascinating and oft time highly significant actions on the fringes. Of which North America is a part. I ll take this opportunity to put in a
                                        Message 19 of 28 , Sep 3, 2008
                                          Exactly, some fascinating and oft time highly significant actions "on the fringes." Of which North America is a part. I'll take this opportunity to put in a plug for one of my favorite books, "Dreams of Empire" by Paul Fregosi. Worth a read for anyone wanted the "big picture" effect.

                                          Michael

                                          --
                                          A Truism - For every action, there is an equal and opposite criticism.

                                          -------------- Original message --------------
                                          From: BritcomHMP@...



                                          With?1808-15 wars we often thiink of actions being confined to Europe and North America but it was very much a World War for Britain with actions in South America, India, Java, the Caibbean etc. and of course if we go back to the Revolutionary war?with France we can include Egypt, Palestine, and lots of other places too, including any ocean where a French and British ship might meet.

                                          Cheers

                                          Tim

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                                        • jeff.mason10
                                          Hi My name is Jeff Mason, a member of the Royal Scots Lights. Thought I would pop in and see what was up on the forum. I have a general interest in military
                                          Message 20 of 28 , Jul 26, 2011
                                            Hi My name is Jeff Mason, a member of the Royal Scots Lights. Thought I would pop in and see what was up on the forum. I have a general interest in military history, with Napoleonics, American Civil War, English Civil War, and Ancients being of particular interest.
                                          • MasterAtArms
                                            Welcome to the list, Jeff! Dale Kidd Master at Arms, H.M. Provincial Marine
                                            Message 21 of 28 , Jul 27, 2011
                                              Welcome to the list, Jeff!

                                              Dale Kidd
                                              Master at Arms,
                                              H.M. Provincial Marine
                                            • Glenn Davis
                                              DALE, Greetings from Tennessee! I ve just recently joined your HMMarines group,,,even though I have no real idea of just when I ll be able to start getting my
                                              Message 22 of 28 , Jul 27, 2011
                                                DALE, Greetings from Tennessee! I've just recently joined your HMMarines group,,,even though I have no real idea of just when I'll be able to start getting my kit together and actually be able to attend an event where your group will be present,,,but was just wondering how active the HM Marine group still is,,,active that is? I've looked at your web site and from what I can remember there rerally isn't much there as far as a schedule,,,and was wondering just how far in advnace that the group does try to plan a schedule,,,any info that you could give me would be greatly appreciated! YOS, Glenn Davis

                                                --- On Wed, 7/27/11, MasterAtArms <ucpm_gunner@...> wrote:


                                                From: MasterAtArms <ucpm_gunner@...>
                                                Subject: 1812 Re: Hello to all
                                                To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                                                Date: Wednesday, July 27, 2011, 12:34 PM


                                                 



                                                Welcome to the list, Jeff!

                                                Dale Kidd
                                                Master at Arms,
                                                H.M. Provincial Marine








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