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Re: New Unit - 5th Lincoln Militia

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  • Chris
    As far as I know after I dusted off my old paper work. It s the 5th Lincoln Militia 2nd Company. This will make now in are hobbie 1st Lincoln Militia 4th
    Message 1 of 28 , Sep 1, 2008
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      As far as I know after I dusted off my old paper work.
      It's the 5th Lincoln Militia 2nd Company.
      This will make now in are hobbie
      1st Lincoln Militia
      4th Lincoln Militia
      5th LIncoln Militia
      I do beleave it's Red Coats Green faceing's
      This is what we wear in the 80's
      If any one knows Kevin O'Hallarin could you please pass on my Email
      Address so I can get some info on the 5th Lincoln Militia since he was
      one of are Former members that was in charge of the unit.
      fithlincolnmilitia@...
      Thanks
      Captain Wilkinson
      5th Lincoln Militia
    • Dave Westhouse
      Chris, Obviously the other units portraying other Lincoln Militia units would be of great help. Other than that, read the drill manual and attend the
      Message 2 of 28 , Sep 1, 2008
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        Chris,

        Obviously the other units portraying other Lincoln Militia units would
        be of great help. Other than that, read the drill manual and attend
        the Officer/NCO school in April. Someone to run you through it all
        would help too.

        Why the change?

        Dave Westhouse,
        1st Royal Scots Battn.





        ...but If anyone hasany information I could use to help portray this
        unit as well as we can it would be greatly appreciated. Commands,
        drills, etc..

        God save the king

        Signed, Captain Wilkinson of the 5th Lincoln Militia
      • ronpontiac
        ... has ... Hi Chris, Assuming that you will be portraying one of the flank companies, probably the best bet for uniform would be to pick a period and go with
        Message 3 of 28 , Sep 1, 2008
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          --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Chris" <littlefeatherscrafts@...>
          wrote:

          > I do have some stuff from when I was with the unit, but If anyone
          has
          > any information I could use to help portray this unit as well as we
          > can it would be greatly appreciated.


          Hi Chris,

          Assuming that you will be portraying one of the flank companies,
          probably the best bet for uniform would be to pick a period and go
          with that:

          June 1812----Civilian clothing
          August 1812--Old, beat up faded 41st Regiment coattees for those
          portraying men who went to Detroit with Brock--others in Civilian
          dress

          Summer 1813-December 1814: Officers in Red coats with blue facings,
          buttons in pairs, limited gold lace; men represent a bit of
          problem. The orders say green faced red uniforms. Did this mean red
          coats with green facings or green coats with red facings? Supporting
          documents remain confusing at best but it seems that more red cloth
          was sent out, suggesting that red may have been the colour. All
          surviving Lincoln Militia officers' coattees are red coats with blue
          facings. The headdress could be a "stovepipe" shako or, by the last
          year of the war, a belgic shako. Trousers grey. Belts?? Hard
          call. There were many, many black belts sent out from stores in
          Quebec for the militia but whether or not buff belts were received
          by 1814 would require more concentrated research.

          As per drill etc., the flank companies were well-drilled in the
          standard British platoon and manual exercises.

          Have fun,

          Ron Dale
        • Chris
          ... Was thinking at camp this past weekend, Was thinking on what fun we had back in the day. I joined the 5th Lincoln Militia Back in 1984 and in the mid to
          Message 4 of 28 , Sep 2, 2008
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            > Chris,
            >
            > Obviously the other units portraying other Lincoln Militia units would
            > be of great help. Other than that, read the drill manual and attend
            > the Officer/NCO school in April. Someone to run you through it all
            > would help too.
            >
            > Why the change?
            >
            > Dave Westhouse,
            > 1st Royal Scots Battn.

            Was thinking at camp this past weekend, Was thinking on what fun we
            had back in the day.
            I joined the 5th Lincoln Militia Back in 1984 and in the mid to late
            1990's the group went it's own way. Since that date we have lost a few
            good men. I said to my wife I want to bring back The 5th Lincoln. One
            so we can pay respect to the men that fought back in 1812 to 1813,
            Also for the Men that I grew up with and has past on to.
            So this is the reason for the Change. See you all this weekend!

            God save the king

            Signed, Captain Wilkinson of the 5th Lincoln Militia
          • John Potter
            G day all, Just noticed the reference to the Officer / NCO school in April. Assuming that this is for British Napoleonic forces, can someone please enlighten
            Message 5 of 28 , Sep 2, 2008
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              G'day all,

              Just noticed the reference to the Officer / NCO school in April.
              Assuming that this is for British Napoleonic forces, can someone
              please enlighten me as to where and when this will be happening..?
              Which manual do you follow here..? Are you linked in with the drill
              and organisation of the British Napoleonic Association and/or the
              British Battalion of the European Napoleonic Society..?

              Thanks,

              John


              --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Westhouse" <westhouse@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > Chris,
              >
              > Obviously the other units portraying other Lincoln Militia units
              would
              > be of great help. Other than that, read the drill manual and attend
              > the Officer/NCO school in April. Someone to run you through it all
              > would help too.
              >
              > Why the change?
              >
              > Dave Westhouse,
              > 1st Royal Scots Battn.
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > ...but If anyone hasany information I could use to help portray this
              > unit as well as we can it would be greatly appreciated. Commands,
              > drills, etc..
              >
              > God save the king
              >
              > Signed, Captain Wilkinson of the 5th Lincoln Militia
              >
            • Gord Deans
              John, This school is held in April of each year at Fort York, Toronto, Ontario for the NCOs and officers of 1812 British Crown Forces units. These unit leaders
              Message 6 of 28 , Sep 2, 2008
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                John,

                This school is held in April of each year at Fort York, Toronto,
                Ontario for the NCOs and officers of 1812 British Crown Forces units.
                These unit leaders get refreshment training and drill in the manual of
                arms and parade as practiced by 1812 units in order that they can in
                turn train their units before the reenactment season begins in May at
                Longwoods, near London, Ontario.

                Versions of the manual of arms can be found at the web sites of some
                infantry units such as the 1st Royal Scots.

                This is separate from any Napoleonic associations.

                Gord Deans,
                HMS Charwell Landing Party.

                -----Original Message-----
                From: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com] On
                Behalf Of John Potter
                Sent: September 2, 2008 10:36 PM
                To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: 1812 Officer / NCO school..?


                G'day all,

                Just noticed the reference to the Officer / NCO school in April.
                Assuming that this is for British Napoleonic forces, can someone
                please enlighten me as to where and when this will be happening..?
                Which manual do you follow here..? Are you linked in with the drill
                and organisation of the British Napoleonic Association and/or the
                British Battalion of the European Napoleonic Society..?

                Thanks,

                John


                --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Westhouse" <westhouse@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > Chris,
                >
                > Obviously the other units portraying other Lincoln Militia units
                would
                > be of great help. Other than that, read the drill manual and attend
                > the Officer/NCO school in April. Someone to run you through it all
                > would help too.
                >
                > Why the change?
                >
                > Dave Westhouse,
                > 1st Royal Scots Battn.
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > ...but If anyone hasany information I could use to help portray this
                > unit as well as we can it would be greatly appreciated. Commands,
                > drills, etc..
                >
                > God save the king
                >
                > Signed, Captain Wilkinson of the 5th Lincoln Militia
                >



                ------------------------------------

                War of 1812 Living History:
                A wide-ranging information exchange
                for all participants and supporters


                Unit Contact information for North America:
                Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                American Forces Unit Listing
                http://usforces1812.tripod.com

                WAR OF 1812 EVENTS LIST:
                http://royal.scots.tripod.com/warof1812eventslistYahoo! Groups
                Links
              • John Potter
                Thanks Gord, I ll check out some websites to see how the manual/s of arms compare with what I m used to. I was intrigued at your separation of 1812 stuff from
                Message 7 of 28 , Sep 2, 2008
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                  Thanks Gord,

                  I'll check out some websites to see how the manual/s of arms compare
                  with what I'm used to. I was intrigued at your separation of 1812
                  stuff from the broader Napoleonic scene - isn't the War of 1812
                  considered part of the Napoleonic Wars here..?

                  Cheers,

                  John


                  --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Gord Deans" <gord.deans@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > John,
                  >
                  > This school is held in April of each year at Fort York, Toronto,
                  > Ontario for the NCOs and officers of 1812 British Crown Forces
                  units.
                  > These unit leaders get refreshment training and drill in the manual
                  of
                  > arms and parade as practiced by 1812 units in order that they can in
                  > turn train their units before the reenactment season begins in May
                  at
                  > Longwoods, near London, Ontario.
                  >
                  > Versions of the manual of arms can be found at the web sites of some
                  > infantry units such as the 1st Royal Scots.
                  >
                  > This is separate from any Napoleonic associations.
                  >
                  > Gord Deans,
                  > HMS Charwell Landing Party.
                  >
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com]
                  On
                  > Behalf Of John Potter
                  > Sent: September 2, 2008 10:36 PM
                  > To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: 1812 Officer / NCO school..?
                  >
                  >
                  > G'day all,
                  >
                  > Just noticed the reference to the Officer / NCO school in April.
                  > Assuming that this is for British Napoleonic forces, can someone
                  > please enlighten me as to where and when this will be happening..?
                  > Which manual do you follow here..? Are you linked in with the drill
                  > and organisation of the British Napoleonic Association and/or the
                  > British Battalion of the European Napoleonic Society..?
                  >
                  > Thanks,
                  >
                  > John
                  >
                  >
                  > --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Westhouse" <westhouse@>
                  > wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Chris,
                  > >
                  > > Obviously the other units portraying other Lincoln Militia units
                  > would
                  > > be of great help. Other than that, read the drill manual and
                  attend
                  > > the Officer/NCO school in April. Someone to run you through it all
                  > > would help too.
                  > >
                  > > Why the change?
                  > >
                  > > Dave Westhouse,
                  > > 1st Royal Scots Battn.
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > ...but If anyone hasany information I could use to help portray
                  this
                  > > unit as well as we can it would be greatly appreciated. Commands,
                  > > drills, etc..
                  > >
                  > > God save the king
                  > >
                  > > Signed, Captain Wilkinson of the 5th Lincoln Militia
                  > >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ------------------------------------
                  >
                  > War of 1812 Living History:
                  > A wide-ranging information exchange
                  > for all participants and supporters
                  >
                  >
                  > Unit Contact information for North America:
                  > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                  > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                  > American Forces Unit Listing
                  > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                  >
                  > WAR OF 1812 EVENTS LIST:
                  > http://royal.scots.tripod.com/warof1812eventslistYahoo! Groups
                  > Links
                  >
                • Gord Deans
                  The War of 1812 (in far away North America) was a side-issue from the European point of view and had its own unique style. American and Canadian War of 1812
                  Message 8 of 28 , Sep 2, 2008
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                    The War of 1812 (in far away North America) was a side-issue from the
                    European point of view and had its own unique style. American and
                    Canadian War of 1812 reenactors tend to emphasize the "local" events
                    and reflect the "local" participants, climate and terrain.

                    There are Napoleonic events and groups in North America and there is
                    some cross-participation on occasion but it would be anachronistic and
                    confusing to the public to portray Napoleonic regiments and tactics on
                    the actual sites of North American battles.

                    Many War of 1812 reenactors and units do travel to "Waterloo" each
                    year to get a "taste" of the grand Napoleonic.

                    Gord

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com] On
                    Behalf Of John Potter
                    Sent: September 2, 2008 10:57 PM
                    To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: 1812 Officer / NCO school..?


                    Thanks Gord,

                    I'll check out some websites to see how the manual/s of arms compare
                    with what I'm used to. I was intrigued at your separation of 1812
                    stuff from the broader Napoleonic scene - isn't the War of 1812
                    considered part of the Napoleonic Wars here..?

                    Cheers,

                    John


                    --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Gord Deans" <gord.deans@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > John,
                    >
                    > This school is held in April of each year at Fort York, Toronto,
                    > Ontario for the NCOs and officers of 1812 British Crown Forces
                    units.
                    > These unit leaders get refreshment training and drill in the manual
                    of
                    > arms and parade as practiced by 1812 units in order that they can in
                    > turn train their units before the reenactment season begins in May
                    at
                    > Longwoods, near London, Ontario.
                    >
                    > Versions of the manual of arms can be found at the web sites of some
                    > infantry units such as the 1st Royal Scots.
                    >
                    > This is separate from any Napoleonic associations.
                    >
                    > Gord Deans,
                    > HMS Charwell Landing Party.
                    >
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com]
                    On
                    > Behalf Of John Potter
                    > Sent: September 2, 2008 10:36 PM
                    > To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                    > Subject: 1812 Officer / NCO school..?
                    >
                    >
                    > G'day all,
                    >
                    > Just noticed the reference to the Officer / NCO school in April.
                    > Assuming that this is for British Napoleonic forces, can someone
                    > please enlighten me as to where and when this will be happening..?
                    > Which manual do you follow here..? Are you linked in with the drill
                    > and organisation of the British Napoleonic Association and/or the
                    > British Battalion of the European Napoleonic Society..?
                    >
                    > Thanks,
                    >
                    > John
                  • mimathews@comcast.net
                    Someone pass me the popcorn. This ought to be good. ;-) Michael -- A Truism - For every action, there is an equal and opposite criticism. ... From: John
                    Message 9 of 28 , Sep 2, 2008
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                      Someone pass me the popcorn. This ought to be good. ;-)

                      Michael

                      --
                      A Truism - For every action, there is an equal and opposite criticism.

                      -------------- Original message --------------
                      From: "John Potter" <potts4259@...>

                      Thanks Gord,

                      I'll check out some websites to see how the manual/s of arms compare
                      with what I'm used to. I was intrigued at your separation of 1812
                      stuff from the broader Napoleonic scene - isn't the War of 1812
                      considered part of the Napoleonic Wars here..?

                      Cheers,

                      John

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                    • Gord Deans
                      John asked: isn t the War of 1812 considered part of the Napoleonic Wars here...? The North American answer would be NO. However, taking the broader French
                      Message 10 of 28 , Sep 2, 2008
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                        John asked:
                        "isn't the War of 1812 considered part of the Napoleonic Wars
                        here...?"

                        The North American answer would be "NO."

                        However, taking the broader French / Napoleonic point of view, it was
                        a second front in the Napoleonic War that was meant to distract and
                        weaken the British. I am sure that there was French intervention
                        behind the scenes to provoke the Americans into declaring war (and
                        they thought that they were just going shopping). Although the United
                        States was almost as equally prone to declare war on France as on
                        Britain as a result of the trade embargoes, French manipulations
                        probably tipped the balance.

                        "When gold changes hands, it also usually changes hearts." Who knows
                        what great American family fortune began with the War of 1812 in spite
                        of an economy that was about to collapse.

                        Michael, here is your popcorn.
                      • JGIL1812@aol.com
                        In a message dated 9/2/2008 8:18:07 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, gord.deans@sympatico.ca writes:
                        Message 11 of 28 , Sep 2, 2008
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                          In a message dated 9/2/2008 8:18:07 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
                          gord.deans@... writes:

                          <<<but it would be anachronistic and
                          confusing to the public to portray Napoleonic regiments and tactics on
                          the actual sites of North American battles.>>>



                          Gord,

                          Are you saying that the British army in Canada during the Napoleonic Wars
                          didn't follow the same drill and tactics as their European bound brothers?

                          JG/RE



                          **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel
                          deal here.
                          (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • JGIL1812@aol.com
                          In a message dated 9/2/2008 8:58:55 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, gord.deans@sympatico.ca writes: Gord, With all
                          Message 12 of 28 , Sep 2, 2008
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                            In a message dated 9/2/2008 8:58:55 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
                            gord.deans@... writes:

                            <<The North American answer would be "NO.">>>
                            Gord,

                            With all due respect maybe the American answer would be a resounding "NO"
                            but much of Prevost policies and tactics were driven by what was happening in
                            Europe and when Nappy was defeated many of the troops engaged in Europe ended
                            up in front of Washington, Plattsburg and New Orleans.

                            Your humble servant,
                            JG/RE





                            **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel
                            deal here.
                            (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Gord Deans
                            The British Army and Navy in North America used the same manuals, rules and regulations. War of 1812 reenactors in North America reenact actual North American
                            Message 13 of 28 , Sep 2, 2008
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                              The British Army and Navy in North America used the same manuals,
                              rules and regulations.

                              War of 1812 reenactors in North America reenact actual North American
                              battles and portray actual North American regiments on original battle
                              sites and on the original scale of companies and regiments (and
                              usually without cavalry). Until Plattsburgh, there were few
                              engagements consisting of more than a couple of half-strength British
                              regiments. Some current Napoleonic reenactments are larger than any
                              actual North American battles two hundred years ago.

                              There was neither the resources nor the terrain in North America for
                              the massive armies and tactics of the Napoleonic Wars. The logistics
                              and tactics of multiple armies and divisions in well-populated areas
                              was very different from those of regiments and companies in
                              sparsely-populated areas. Armies on the scale of hundreds of
                              thousands would have starved to death after a few days in the field
                              (or before even getting to the field) in North America.

                              Some progressives will argue (not me), that Napoleonic reenacting in
                              North America (except in preparation for trips to Europe) is
                              equivalent to Middle Ages reenacting in North America -- colourful and
                              fun but not "real" or relevant to the North American experience.

                              Napoleonic reenacting and War of 1812 reenacting might "look the same"
                              but are really quite separate events, organizations and units.

                              -----Original Message-----
                              From: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com] On
                              Behalf Of JGIL1812@...
                              Sent: September 3, 2008 12:31 AM
                              To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: 1812 Officer / NCO school..?


                              In a message dated 9/2/2008 8:18:07 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
                              gord.deans@... writes:

                              <<<but it would be anachronistic and
                              confusing to the public to portray Napoleonic regiments and tactics
                              on
                              the actual sites of North American battles.>>>



                              Gord,

                              Are you saying that the British army in Canada during the Napoleonic
                              Wars
                              didn't follow the same drill and tactics as their European bound
                              brothers?

                              JG/RE
                            • Gord Deans
                              To reiterate my answer to John s original question - Are you linked in with the drill and organisation of the British Napoleonic Association and/or the
                              Message 14 of 28 , Sep 2, 2008
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                                To reiterate my answer to John's original question -
                                "Are you linked in with the drill and organisation of the British
                                Napoleonic Association and/or the British Battalion of the European
                                Napoleonic Society...?"

                                No. The Crown Forces and War of 1812 reenacting community is not
                                "linked" with these associations / societies (the reasons for which
                                have been previously stated).

                                The drill and uniforms (of the British Army) might have been shared in
                                common and in Prevost's mind, North America might have been part of
                                the grand strategy of the Napoleonic War, but in effect it was merely
                                a struggle to save another colony to keep the British empire and pride
                                intact. I would argue that the Carribean colonies were still
                                considered more important by Britain.

                                Actually, losing British North America could have only increased
                                Britain's ability to overcome Napoleon.
                              • Iain Burns
                                Hullo John... Take a look at our (your?) website for my take on things... just click on the 1812 link.
                                Message 15 of 28 , Sep 3, 2008
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                                  Hullo John...

                                  Take a look at our (your?) website for my take on things... just click on the "1812" link.

                                  http://www.the-black-watch-lha.org/1815/<http://www.the-black-watch-lha.org/1815/>

                                  Aye,
                                  Iain

                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: John Potter<mailto:potts4259@...>
                                  To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com<mailto:WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 10:56 PM
                                  Subject: Re: 1812 Officer / NCO school..?



                                  Thanks Gord,

                                  I'll check out some websites to see how the manual/s of arms compare
                                  with what I'm used to. I was intrigued at your separation of 1812
                                  stuff from the broader Napoleonic scene - isn't the War of 1812
                                  considered part of the Napoleonic Wars here..?

                                  Cheers,

                                  John

                                  --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com<mailto:WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>, "Gord Deans" <gord.deans@...> wrote:
                                  >
                                  > John,
                                  >
                                  > This school is held in April of each year at Fort York, Toronto,
                                  > Ontario for the NCOs and officers of 1812 British Crown Forces
                                  units.
                                  > These unit leaders get refreshment training and drill in the manual
                                  of
                                  > arms and parade as practiced by 1812 units in order that they can in
                                  > turn train their units before the reenactment season begins in May
                                  at
                                  > Longwoods, near London, Ontario.
                                  >
                                  > Versions of the manual of arms can be found at the web sites of some
                                  > infantry units such as the 1st Royal Scots.
                                  >
                                  > This is separate from any Napoleonic associations.
                                  >
                                  > Gord Deans,
                                  > HMS Charwell Landing Party.
                                  >
                                  > -----Original Message-----
                                  > From: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com<mailto:WarOf1812%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com<mailto:WarOf1812%40yahoogroups.com>]
                                  On
                                  > Behalf Of John Potter
                                  > Sent: September 2, 2008 10:36 PM
                                  > To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com<mailto:WarOf1812%40yahoogroups.com>
                                  > Subject: 1812 Officer / NCO school..?
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > G'day all,
                                  >
                                  > Just noticed the reference to the Officer / NCO school in April.
                                  > Assuming that this is for British Napoleonic forces, can someone
                                  > please enlighten me as to where and when this will be happening..?
                                  > Which manual do you follow here..? Are you linked in with the drill
                                  > and organisation of the British Napoleonic Association and/or the
                                  > British Battalion of the European Napoleonic Society..?
                                  >
                                  > Thanks,
                                  >
                                  > John
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com<mailto:WarOf1812%40yahoogroups.com>, "Dave Westhouse" <westhouse@>
                                  > wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > Chris,
                                  > >
                                  > > Obviously the other units portraying other Lincoln Militia units
                                  > would
                                  > > be of great help. Other than that, read the drill manual and
                                  attend
                                  > > the Officer/NCO school in April. Someone to run you through it all
                                  > > would help too.
                                  > >
                                  > > Why the change?
                                  > >
                                  > > Dave Westhouse,
                                  > > 1st Royal Scots Battn.
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > > ...but If anyone hasany information I could use to help portray
                                  this
                                  > > unit as well as we can it would be greatly appreciated. Commands,
                                  > > drills, etc..
                                  > >
                                  > > God save the king
                                  > >
                                  > > Signed, Captain Wilkinson of the 5th Lincoln Militia
                                  > >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > ------------------------------------
                                  >
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                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • BritcomHMP@aol.com
                                  The (Bonapartist) French most certainly did encourage the war ad see it as a second front. When Napoleon returned from exile in Elba he sent advisors to the US
                                  Message 16 of 28 , Sep 3, 2008
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                                    The (Bonapartist) French most certainly did encourage the war ad see it as a second front. When Napoleon returned from exile in Elba he sent advisors to the US including Gerneral Humbert of the 'Year of the French' fame. Humbert was commanding at the attle of Ballinamuck in Ireland where the young Edward Michael Pakenhan first saw action.

                                    Humbert was with?Andrew Jackson at New Orleans and Jackson?sent him to the West Bank of the river?with re-inforcements for Morgan and originaly intended that he should take command in that sector but the troops refsed to be commanded by a "Foreigner".

                                    Cheers

                                    Tim


                                    -----Original Message-----
                                    From: Gord Deans <gord.deans@...>
                                    To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 10:56 pm
                                    Subject: RE: 1812 Officer / NCO school...?






                                    John asked:
                                    "isn't the War of 1812 considered part of the Napoleonic Wars
                                    here...?"

                                    The North American answer would be "NO."

                                    However, taking the broader French / Napoleonic point of view, it was
                                    a second front in the Napoleonic War that was meant to distract and
                                    weaken the British. I am sure that there was French intervention
                                    behind the scenes to provoke the Americans into declaring war (and
                                    they thought that they were just going shopping). Although the United
                                    States was almost as equally prone to declare war on France as on
                                    Britain as a result of the trade embargoes, French manipulations
                                    probably tipped the balance.

                                    "When gold changes hands, it also usually changes hearts." Who knows
                                    what great American family fortune began with the War of 1812 in spite
                                    of an economy that was about to collapse.

                                    Michael, here is your popcorn.






                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • BritcomHMP@aol.com
                                    Nonetheless the British Army in hcAmerica was the Napoleonic or rather the Wellingtonian army. Certainly it was adapted to new conditions of campaign but
                                    Message 17 of 28 , Sep 3, 2008
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                                      Nonetheless the British Army in hcAmerica was the 'Napoleonic' or rather the 'Wellingtonian' army. Certainly it was adapted to new conditions of campaign but it was the same army in every respect, indeed after the first abdication of Buonapart the Naoleonic veterans shipped out to North America much to the cagin of Wellington at Waterloo who didn't have many of his veterans aailable to him.

                                      The biggest effect the Napoleonic wars had on the war of 1812 (in my opinion) was at the battle of New Oreans where, despite the urging of officers who had exerience in the Americas, Pakenham couldn't beleve that Jacksons entrnched and fortified line was anything but a death trap and so?made is first advance as a reconnasance in force rather than an all out attack (he never did have the 3 to one troop ratio that was the rule to take such a position from?seasoned troops). Had he done so he would have carried the position on December 28th.
                                      ?
                                      The Army might have had to adapt for service in North America but it most certainly was the same force used in Europe, and all ovr the world.?
                                      Which reminds me I wonder if we could?re-enact the defeat the Gurkhas in Nepal 1815, first time they had ever been conqured and the begining of their long and glorious history of service with the British Army.

                                      Cheers

                                      Tim?


                                      -----Original Message-----
                                      From: Gord Deans <gord.deans@...>
                                      To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 12:10 am
                                      Subject: RE: 1812 Officer / NCO school...?






                                      The British Army and Navy in North America used the same manuals,
                                      rules and regulations.

                                      War of 1812 reenactors in North America reenact actual North American
                                      battles and portray actual North American regiments on original battle
                                      sites and on the original scale of companies and regiments (and
                                      usually without cavalry). Until Plattsburgh, there were few
                                      engagements consisting of more than a couple of half-strength British
                                      regiments. Some current Napoleonic reenactments are larger than any
                                      actual North American battles two hundred years ago.

                                      There was neither the resources nor the terrain in North America for
                                      the massive armies and tactics of the Napoleonic Wars. The logistics
                                      and tactics of multiple armies and divisions in well-populated areas
                                      was very different from those of regiments and companies in
                                      sparsely-populated areas. Armies on the scale of hundreds of
                                      thousands would have starved to death after a few days in the field
                                      (or before even getting to the field) in North America.

                                      Some progressives will argue (not me), that Napoleonic reenacting in
                                      North America (except in preparation for trips to Europe) is
                                      equivalent to Middle Ages reenacting in North America -- colourful and
                                      fun but not "real" or relevant to the North American experience.

                                      Napoleonic reenacting and War of 1812 reenacting might "look the same"
                                      but are really quite separate events, organizations and units.

                                      -----Original Message-----
                                      From: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com] On
                                      Behalf Of JGIL1812@...
                                      Sent: September 3, 2008 12:31 AM
                                      To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                                      Subject: Re: 1812 Officer / NCO school..?

                                      In a message dated 9/2/2008 8:18:07 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
                                      gord.deans@... writes:

                                      <<<but it would be anachronistic and
                                      confusing to the public to portray Napoleonic regiments and tactics
                                      on
                                      the actual sites of North American battles.>>>

                                      Gord,

                                      Are you saying that the British army in Canada during the Napoleonic
                                      Wars
                                      didn't follow the same drill and tactics as their European bound
                                      brothers?

                                      JG/RE






                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • Tom Hurlbut
                                      My daughter s in Nepal right now.. I ll ask her to see if they re interested.. ;-) See you at the GT! Lt. Tom ... From: BritcomHMP@aol.com To:
                                      Message 18 of 28 , Sep 3, 2008
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                                        My daughter's in Nepal right now.. I'll ask her to see if they're interested.. ;-)

                                        See you at the GT!

                                        "Lt." Tom

                                        ----- Original Message -----
                                        From: BritcomHMP@...
                                        To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 10:22 AM
                                        Subject: Re: 1812 Officer / NCO school...?


                                        Nonetheless the British Army in hcAmerica was the 'Napoleonic' or rather the 'Wellingtonian' army. Certainly it was adapted to new conditions of campaign but it was the same army in every respect, indeed after the first abdication of Buonapart the Naoleonic veterans shipped out to North America much to the cagin of Wellington at Waterloo who didn't have many of his veterans aailable to him.

                                        The biggest effect the Napoleonic wars had on the war of 1812 (in my opinion) was at the battle of New Oreans where, despite the urging of officers who had exerience in the Americas, Pakenham couldn't beleve that Jacksons entrnched and fortified line was anything but a death trap and so?made is first advance as a reconnasance in force rather than an all out attack (he never did have the 3 to one troop ratio that was the rule to take such a position from?seasoned troops). Had he done so he would have carried the position on December 28th.
                                        ?
                                        The Army might have had to adapt for service in North America but it most certainly was the same force used in Europe, and all ovr the world.?
                                        Which reminds me I wonder if we could?re-enact the defeat the Gurkhas in Nepal 1815, first time they had ever been conqured and the begining of their long and glorious history of service with the British Army.

                                        Cheers

                                        Tim?

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                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • BritcomHMP@aol.com
                                        My daughter s in Nepal right now.. I ll ask her to see if they re interested.. ;-) Well, I might just stay on the sidelines for this, I know the Gurkhas get
                                        Message 19 of 28 , Sep 3, 2008
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                                          My daughter's in Nepal right now.. I'll ask her to see if they're interested.. ;-)




                                          Well, I might just stay on the sidelines for this, I know the Gurkhas get very enthusiastic and their old method of dispatching senior officers (if they could get to them) was to dodge under the horse and disembowel or hamstring it, then take the head off the rider!

                                          With?1808-15 wars we often thiink of actions being confined to Europe and North America but it was very much a World War for Britain with actions in South America, India, Java, the Caibbean etc. and of course if we go back to the Revolutionary war?with France we can include Egypt, Palestine, and lots of other places too, including any ocean where a French and British ship might meet.

                                          Cheers

                                          Tim




                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • mimathews@comcast.net
                                          Exactly, some fascinating and oft time highly significant actions on the fringes. Of which North America is a part. I ll take this opportunity to put in a
                                          Message 20 of 28 , Sep 3, 2008
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                                            Exactly, some fascinating and oft time highly significant actions "on the fringes." Of which North America is a part. I'll take this opportunity to put in a plug for one of my favorite books, "Dreams of Empire" by Paul Fregosi. Worth a read for anyone wanted the "big picture" effect.

                                            Michael

                                            --
                                            A Truism - For every action, there is an equal and opposite criticism.

                                            -------------- Original message --------------
                                            From: BritcomHMP@...



                                            With?1808-15 wars we often thiink of actions being confined to Europe and North America but it was very much a World War for Britain with actions in South America, India, Java, the Caibbean etc. and of course if we go back to the Revolutionary war?with France we can include Egypt, Palestine, and lots of other places too, including any ocean where a French and British ship might meet.

                                            Cheers

                                            Tim

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                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • jeff.mason10
                                            Hi My name is Jeff Mason, a member of the Royal Scots Lights. Thought I would pop in and see what was up on the forum. I have a general interest in military
                                            Message 21 of 28 , Jul 26 12:42 PM
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                                              Hi My name is Jeff Mason, a member of the Royal Scots Lights. Thought I would pop in and see what was up on the forum. I have a general interest in military history, with Napoleonics, American Civil War, English Civil War, and Ancients being of particular interest.
                                            • MasterAtArms
                                              Welcome to the list, Jeff! Dale Kidd Master at Arms, H.M. Provincial Marine
                                              Message 22 of 28 , Jul 27 5:34 AM
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                                                Welcome to the list, Jeff!

                                                Dale Kidd
                                                Master at Arms,
                                                H.M. Provincial Marine
                                              • Glenn Davis
                                                DALE, Greetings from Tennessee! I ve just recently joined your HMMarines group,,,even though I have no real idea of just when I ll be able to start getting my
                                                Message 23 of 28 , Jul 27 11:23 AM
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                                                  DALE, Greetings from Tennessee! I've just recently joined your HMMarines group,,,even though I have no real idea of just when I'll be able to start getting my kit together and actually be able to attend an event where your group will be present,,,but was just wondering how active the HM Marine group still is,,,active that is? I've looked at your web site and from what I can remember there rerally isn't much there as far as a schedule,,,and was wondering just how far in advnace that the group does try to plan a schedule,,,any info that you could give me would be greatly appreciated! YOS, Glenn Davis

                                                  --- On Wed, 7/27/11, MasterAtArms <ucpm_gunner@...> wrote:


                                                  From: MasterAtArms <ucpm_gunner@...>
                                                  Subject: 1812 Re: Hello to all
                                                  To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Date: Wednesday, July 27, 2011, 12:34 PM


                                                   



                                                  Welcome to the list, Jeff!

                                                  Dale Kidd
                                                  Master at Arms,
                                                  H.M. Provincial Marine








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