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RE: 1812 RE: New Unit - 5th Lincoln Militia

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  • Kevin Windsor
    Mr. Arnt is with the 1st Lincoln Militia KW _____ From: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of John Harris 2-Will you
    Message 1 of 28 , Sep 1, 2008
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      Mr. Arnt is with the 1st Lincoln Militia



      KW



      _____

      From: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
      Of John Harris


      2-Will you working with the already established 5th Lincoln Militia
      Under/with Calvin Arnt? ( My apologies if I've mis-spelled)





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • John Harris
      I stand corrected !!! Thank you Kevin ! Regards John PS- Y all look the same to us !! 8^) ... On Behalf
      Message 2 of 28 , Sep 1, 2008
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        I stand corrected !!! Thank you Kevin !
        Regards
        John
        PS- Y'all look the same to us !!
        8^)

        --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Kevin Windsor"
        <kevin.windsor@...> wrote:
        >
        > Mr. Arnt is with the 1st Lincoln Militia
        >
        >
        >
        > KW
        >
        >
        >
        > _____
        >
        > From: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com]
        On Behalf
        > Of John Harris
        >
        >
        > 2-Will you working with the already established 5th Lincoln Militia
        > Under/with Calvin Arnt? ( My apologies if I've mis-spelled)
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
      • Chris
        As far as I know after I dusted off my old paper work. It s the 5th Lincoln Militia 2nd Company. This will make now in are hobbie 1st Lincoln Militia 4th
        Message 3 of 28 , Sep 1, 2008
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          As far as I know after I dusted off my old paper work.
          It's the 5th Lincoln Militia 2nd Company.
          This will make now in are hobbie
          1st Lincoln Militia
          4th Lincoln Militia
          5th LIncoln Militia
          I do beleave it's Red Coats Green faceing's
          This is what we wear in the 80's
          If any one knows Kevin O'Hallarin could you please pass on my Email
          Address so I can get some info on the 5th Lincoln Militia since he was
          one of are Former members that was in charge of the unit.
          fithlincolnmilitia@...
          Thanks
          Captain Wilkinson
          5th Lincoln Militia
        • Dave Westhouse
          Chris, Obviously the other units portraying other Lincoln Militia units would be of great help. Other than that, read the drill manual and attend the
          Message 4 of 28 , Sep 1, 2008
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            Chris,

            Obviously the other units portraying other Lincoln Militia units would
            be of great help. Other than that, read the drill manual and attend
            the Officer/NCO school in April. Someone to run you through it all
            would help too.

            Why the change?

            Dave Westhouse,
            1st Royal Scots Battn.





            ...but If anyone hasany information I could use to help portray this
            unit as well as we can it would be greatly appreciated. Commands,
            drills, etc..

            God save the king

            Signed, Captain Wilkinson of the 5th Lincoln Militia
          • ronpontiac
            ... has ... Hi Chris, Assuming that you will be portraying one of the flank companies, probably the best bet for uniform would be to pick a period and go with
            Message 5 of 28 , Sep 1, 2008
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              --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Chris" <littlefeatherscrafts@...>
              wrote:

              > I do have some stuff from when I was with the unit, but If anyone
              has
              > any information I could use to help portray this unit as well as we
              > can it would be greatly appreciated.


              Hi Chris,

              Assuming that you will be portraying one of the flank companies,
              probably the best bet for uniform would be to pick a period and go
              with that:

              June 1812----Civilian clothing
              August 1812--Old, beat up faded 41st Regiment coattees for those
              portraying men who went to Detroit with Brock--others in Civilian
              dress

              Summer 1813-December 1814: Officers in Red coats with blue facings,
              buttons in pairs, limited gold lace; men represent a bit of
              problem. The orders say green faced red uniforms. Did this mean red
              coats with green facings or green coats with red facings? Supporting
              documents remain confusing at best but it seems that more red cloth
              was sent out, suggesting that red may have been the colour. All
              surviving Lincoln Militia officers' coattees are red coats with blue
              facings. The headdress could be a "stovepipe" shako or, by the last
              year of the war, a belgic shako. Trousers grey. Belts?? Hard
              call. There were many, many black belts sent out from stores in
              Quebec for the militia but whether or not buff belts were received
              by 1814 would require more concentrated research.

              As per drill etc., the flank companies were well-drilled in the
              standard British platoon and manual exercises.

              Have fun,

              Ron Dale
            • Chris
              ... Was thinking at camp this past weekend, Was thinking on what fun we had back in the day. I joined the 5th Lincoln Militia Back in 1984 and in the mid to
              Message 6 of 28 , Sep 2, 2008
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                > Chris,
                >
                > Obviously the other units portraying other Lincoln Militia units would
                > be of great help. Other than that, read the drill manual and attend
                > the Officer/NCO school in April. Someone to run you through it all
                > would help too.
                >
                > Why the change?
                >
                > Dave Westhouse,
                > 1st Royal Scots Battn.

                Was thinking at camp this past weekend, Was thinking on what fun we
                had back in the day.
                I joined the 5th Lincoln Militia Back in 1984 and in the mid to late
                1990's the group went it's own way. Since that date we have lost a few
                good men. I said to my wife I want to bring back The 5th Lincoln. One
                so we can pay respect to the men that fought back in 1812 to 1813,
                Also for the Men that I grew up with and has past on to.
                So this is the reason for the Change. See you all this weekend!

                God save the king

                Signed, Captain Wilkinson of the 5th Lincoln Militia
              • John Potter
                G day all, Just noticed the reference to the Officer / NCO school in April. Assuming that this is for British Napoleonic forces, can someone please enlighten
                Message 7 of 28 , Sep 2, 2008
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                  G'day all,

                  Just noticed the reference to the Officer / NCO school in April.
                  Assuming that this is for British Napoleonic forces, can someone
                  please enlighten me as to where and when this will be happening..?
                  Which manual do you follow here..? Are you linked in with the drill
                  and organisation of the British Napoleonic Association and/or the
                  British Battalion of the European Napoleonic Society..?

                  Thanks,

                  John


                  --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Westhouse" <westhouse@...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > Chris,
                  >
                  > Obviously the other units portraying other Lincoln Militia units
                  would
                  > be of great help. Other than that, read the drill manual and attend
                  > the Officer/NCO school in April. Someone to run you through it all
                  > would help too.
                  >
                  > Why the change?
                  >
                  > Dave Westhouse,
                  > 1st Royal Scots Battn.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > ...but If anyone hasany information I could use to help portray this
                  > unit as well as we can it would be greatly appreciated. Commands,
                  > drills, etc..
                  >
                  > God save the king
                  >
                  > Signed, Captain Wilkinson of the 5th Lincoln Militia
                  >
                • Gord Deans
                  John, This school is held in April of each year at Fort York, Toronto, Ontario for the NCOs and officers of 1812 British Crown Forces units. These unit leaders
                  Message 8 of 28 , Sep 2, 2008
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                    John,

                    This school is held in April of each year at Fort York, Toronto,
                    Ontario for the NCOs and officers of 1812 British Crown Forces units.
                    These unit leaders get refreshment training and drill in the manual of
                    arms and parade as practiced by 1812 units in order that they can in
                    turn train their units before the reenactment season begins in May at
                    Longwoods, near London, Ontario.

                    Versions of the manual of arms can be found at the web sites of some
                    infantry units such as the 1st Royal Scots.

                    This is separate from any Napoleonic associations.

                    Gord Deans,
                    HMS Charwell Landing Party.

                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com] On
                    Behalf Of John Potter
                    Sent: September 2, 2008 10:36 PM
                    To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: 1812 Officer / NCO school..?


                    G'day all,

                    Just noticed the reference to the Officer / NCO school in April.
                    Assuming that this is for British Napoleonic forces, can someone
                    please enlighten me as to where and when this will be happening..?
                    Which manual do you follow here..? Are you linked in with the drill
                    and organisation of the British Napoleonic Association and/or the
                    British Battalion of the European Napoleonic Society..?

                    Thanks,

                    John


                    --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Westhouse" <westhouse@...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    > Chris,
                    >
                    > Obviously the other units portraying other Lincoln Militia units
                    would
                    > be of great help. Other than that, read the drill manual and attend
                    > the Officer/NCO school in April. Someone to run you through it all
                    > would help too.
                    >
                    > Why the change?
                    >
                    > Dave Westhouse,
                    > 1st Royal Scots Battn.
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > ...but If anyone hasany information I could use to help portray this
                    > unit as well as we can it would be greatly appreciated. Commands,
                    > drills, etc..
                    >
                    > God save the king
                    >
                    > Signed, Captain Wilkinson of the 5th Lincoln Militia
                    >



                    ------------------------------------

                    War of 1812 Living History:
                    A wide-ranging information exchange
                    for all participants and supporters


                    Unit Contact information for North America:
                    Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                    http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                    American Forces Unit Listing
                    http://usforces1812.tripod.com

                    WAR OF 1812 EVENTS LIST:
                    http://royal.scots.tripod.com/warof1812eventslistYahoo! Groups
                    Links
                  • John Potter
                    Thanks Gord, I ll check out some websites to see how the manual/s of arms compare with what I m used to. I was intrigued at your separation of 1812 stuff from
                    Message 9 of 28 , Sep 2, 2008
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                      Thanks Gord,

                      I'll check out some websites to see how the manual/s of arms compare
                      with what I'm used to. I was intrigued at your separation of 1812
                      stuff from the broader Napoleonic scene - isn't the War of 1812
                      considered part of the Napoleonic Wars here..?

                      Cheers,

                      John


                      --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Gord Deans" <gord.deans@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > John,
                      >
                      > This school is held in April of each year at Fort York, Toronto,
                      > Ontario for the NCOs and officers of 1812 British Crown Forces
                      units.
                      > These unit leaders get refreshment training and drill in the manual
                      of
                      > arms and parade as practiced by 1812 units in order that they can in
                      > turn train their units before the reenactment season begins in May
                      at
                      > Longwoods, near London, Ontario.
                      >
                      > Versions of the manual of arms can be found at the web sites of some
                      > infantry units such as the 1st Royal Scots.
                      >
                      > This is separate from any Napoleonic associations.
                      >
                      > Gord Deans,
                      > HMS Charwell Landing Party.
                      >
                      > -----Original Message-----
                      > From: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com]
                      On
                      > Behalf Of John Potter
                      > Sent: September 2, 2008 10:36 PM
                      > To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                      > Subject: 1812 Officer / NCO school..?
                      >
                      >
                      > G'day all,
                      >
                      > Just noticed the reference to the Officer / NCO school in April.
                      > Assuming that this is for British Napoleonic forces, can someone
                      > please enlighten me as to where and when this will be happening..?
                      > Which manual do you follow here..? Are you linked in with the drill
                      > and organisation of the British Napoleonic Association and/or the
                      > British Battalion of the European Napoleonic Society..?
                      >
                      > Thanks,
                      >
                      > John
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Westhouse" <westhouse@>
                      > wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Chris,
                      > >
                      > > Obviously the other units portraying other Lincoln Militia units
                      > would
                      > > be of great help. Other than that, read the drill manual and
                      attend
                      > > the Officer/NCO school in April. Someone to run you through it all
                      > > would help too.
                      > >
                      > > Why the change?
                      > >
                      > > Dave Westhouse,
                      > > 1st Royal Scots Battn.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > ...but If anyone hasany information I could use to help portray
                      this
                      > > unit as well as we can it would be greatly appreciated. Commands,
                      > > drills, etc..
                      > >
                      > > God save the king
                      > >
                      > > Signed, Captain Wilkinson of the 5th Lincoln Militia
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ------------------------------------
                      >
                      > War of 1812 Living History:
                      > A wide-ranging information exchange
                      > for all participants and supporters
                      >
                      >
                      > Unit Contact information for North America:
                      > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                      > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                      > American Forces Unit Listing
                      > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                      >
                      > WAR OF 1812 EVENTS LIST:
                      > http://royal.scots.tripod.com/warof1812eventslistYahoo! Groups
                      > Links
                      >
                    • Gord Deans
                      The War of 1812 (in far away North America) was a side-issue from the European point of view and had its own unique style. American and Canadian War of 1812
                      Message 10 of 28 , Sep 2, 2008
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                        The War of 1812 (in far away North America) was a side-issue from the
                        European point of view and had its own unique style. American and
                        Canadian War of 1812 reenactors tend to emphasize the "local" events
                        and reflect the "local" participants, climate and terrain.

                        There are Napoleonic events and groups in North America and there is
                        some cross-participation on occasion but it would be anachronistic and
                        confusing to the public to portray Napoleonic regiments and tactics on
                        the actual sites of North American battles.

                        Many War of 1812 reenactors and units do travel to "Waterloo" each
                        year to get a "taste" of the grand Napoleonic.

                        Gord

                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com] On
                        Behalf Of John Potter
                        Sent: September 2, 2008 10:57 PM
                        To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: 1812 Officer / NCO school..?


                        Thanks Gord,

                        I'll check out some websites to see how the manual/s of arms compare
                        with what I'm used to. I was intrigued at your separation of 1812
                        stuff from the broader Napoleonic scene - isn't the War of 1812
                        considered part of the Napoleonic Wars here..?

                        Cheers,

                        John


                        --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Gord Deans" <gord.deans@...> wrote:
                        >
                        > John,
                        >
                        > This school is held in April of each year at Fort York, Toronto,
                        > Ontario for the NCOs and officers of 1812 British Crown Forces
                        units.
                        > These unit leaders get refreshment training and drill in the manual
                        of
                        > arms and parade as practiced by 1812 units in order that they can in
                        > turn train their units before the reenactment season begins in May
                        at
                        > Longwoods, near London, Ontario.
                        >
                        > Versions of the manual of arms can be found at the web sites of some
                        > infantry units such as the 1st Royal Scots.
                        >
                        > This is separate from any Napoleonic associations.
                        >
                        > Gord Deans,
                        > HMS Charwell Landing Party.
                        >
                        > -----Original Message-----
                        > From: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com]
                        On
                        > Behalf Of John Potter
                        > Sent: September 2, 2008 10:36 PM
                        > To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                        > Subject: 1812 Officer / NCO school..?
                        >
                        >
                        > G'day all,
                        >
                        > Just noticed the reference to the Officer / NCO school in April.
                        > Assuming that this is for British Napoleonic forces, can someone
                        > please enlighten me as to where and when this will be happening..?
                        > Which manual do you follow here..? Are you linked in with the drill
                        > and organisation of the British Napoleonic Association and/or the
                        > British Battalion of the European Napoleonic Society..?
                        >
                        > Thanks,
                        >
                        > John
                      • mimathews@comcast.net
                        Someone pass me the popcorn. This ought to be good. ;-) Michael -- A Truism - For every action, there is an equal and opposite criticism. ... From: John
                        Message 11 of 28 , Sep 2, 2008
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                          Someone pass me the popcorn. This ought to be good. ;-)

                          Michael

                          --
                          A Truism - For every action, there is an equal and opposite criticism.

                          -------------- Original message --------------
                          From: "John Potter" <potts4259@...>

                          Thanks Gord,

                          I'll check out some websites to see how the manual/s of arms compare
                          with what I'm used to. I was intrigued at your separation of 1812
                          stuff from the broader Napoleonic scene - isn't the War of 1812
                          considered part of the Napoleonic Wars here..?

                          Cheers,

                          John

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                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Gord Deans
                          John asked: isn t the War of 1812 considered part of the Napoleonic Wars here...? The North American answer would be NO. However, taking the broader French
                          Message 12 of 28 , Sep 2, 2008
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                            John asked:
                            "isn't the War of 1812 considered part of the Napoleonic Wars
                            here...?"

                            The North American answer would be "NO."

                            However, taking the broader French / Napoleonic point of view, it was
                            a second front in the Napoleonic War that was meant to distract and
                            weaken the British. I am sure that there was French intervention
                            behind the scenes to provoke the Americans into declaring war (and
                            they thought that they were just going shopping). Although the United
                            States was almost as equally prone to declare war on France as on
                            Britain as a result of the trade embargoes, French manipulations
                            probably tipped the balance.

                            "When gold changes hands, it also usually changes hearts." Who knows
                            what great American family fortune began with the War of 1812 in spite
                            of an economy that was about to collapse.

                            Michael, here is your popcorn.
                          • JGIL1812@aol.com
                            In a message dated 9/2/2008 8:18:07 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, gord.deans@sympatico.ca writes:
                            Message 13 of 28 , Sep 2, 2008
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                              In a message dated 9/2/2008 8:18:07 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
                              gord.deans@... writes:

                              <<<but it would be anachronistic and
                              confusing to the public to portray Napoleonic regiments and tactics on
                              the actual sites of North American battles.>>>



                              Gord,

                              Are you saying that the British army in Canada during the Napoleonic Wars
                              didn't follow the same drill and tactics as their European bound brothers?

                              JG/RE



                              **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel
                              deal here.
                              (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • JGIL1812@aol.com
                              In a message dated 9/2/2008 8:58:55 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time, gord.deans@sympatico.ca writes: Gord, With all
                              Message 14 of 28 , Sep 2, 2008
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                                In a message dated 9/2/2008 8:58:55 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
                                gord.deans@... writes:

                                <<The North American answer would be "NO.">>>
                                Gord,

                                With all due respect maybe the American answer would be a resounding "NO"
                                but much of Prevost policies and tactics were driven by what was happening in
                                Europe and when Nappy was defeated many of the troops engaged in Europe ended
                                up in front of Washington, Plattsburg and New Orleans.

                                Your humble servant,
                                JG/RE





                                **************It's only a deal if it's where you want to go. Find your travel
                                deal here.
                                (http://information.travel.aol.com/deals?ncid=aoltrv00050000000047)


                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Gord Deans
                                The British Army and Navy in North America used the same manuals, rules and regulations. War of 1812 reenactors in North America reenact actual North American
                                Message 15 of 28 , Sep 2, 2008
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                                  The British Army and Navy in North America used the same manuals,
                                  rules and regulations.

                                  War of 1812 reenactors in North America reenact actual North American
                                  battles and portray actual North American regiments on original battle
                                  sites and on the original scale of companies and regiments (and
                                  usually without cavalry). Until Plattsburgh, there were few
                                  engagements consisting of more than a couple of half-strength British
                                  regiments. Some current Napoleonic reenactments are larger than any
                                  actual North American battles two hundred years ago.

                                  There was neither the resources nor the terrain in North America for
                                  the massive armies and tactics of the Napoleonic Wars. The logistics
                                  and tactics of multiple armies and divisions in well-populated areas
                                  was very different from those of regiments and companies in
                                  sparsely-populated areas. Armies on the scale of hundreds of
                                  thousands would have starved to death after a few days in the field
                                  (or before even getting to the field) in North America.

                                  Some progressives will argue (not me), that Napoleonic reenacting in
                                  North America (except in preparation for trips to Europe) is
                                  equivalent to Middle Ages reenacting in North America -- colourful and
                                  fun but not "real" or relevant to the North American experience.

                                  Napoleonic reenacting and War of 1812 reenacting might "look the same"
                                  but are really quite separate events, organizations and units.

                                  -----Original Message-----
                                  From: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com] On
                                  Behalf Of JGIL1812@...
                                  Sent: September 3, 2008 12:31 AM
                                  To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                                  Subject: Re: 1812 Officer / NCO school..?


                                  In a message dated 9/2/2008 8:18:07 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
                                  gord.deans@... writes:

                                  <<<but it would be anachronistic and
                                  confusing to the public to portray Napoleonic regiments and tactics
                                  on
                                  the actual sites of North American battles.>>>



                                  Gord,

                                  Are you saying that the British army in Canada during the Napoleonic
                                  Wars
                                  didn't follow the same drill and tactics as their European bound
                                  brothers?

                                  JG/RE
                                • Gord Deans
                                  To reiterate my answer to John s original question - Are you linked in with the drill and organisation of the British Napoleonic Association and/or the
                                  Message 16 of 28 , Sep 2, 2008
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                                    To reiterate my answer to John's original question -
                                    "Are you linked in with the drill and organisation of the British
                                    Napoleonic Association and/or the British Battalion of the European
                                    Napoleonic Society...?"

                                    No. The Crown Forces and War of 1812 reenacting community is not
                                    "linked" with these associations / societies (the reasons for which
                                    have been previously stated).

                                    The drill and uniforms (of the British Army) might have been shared in
                                    common and in Prevost's mind, North America might have been part of
                                    the grand strategy of the Napoleonic War, but in effect it was merely
                                    a struggle to save another colony to keep the British empire and pride
                                    intact. I would argue that the Carribean colonies were still
                                    considered more important by Britain.

                                    Actually, losing British North America could have only increased
                                    Britain's ability to overcome Napoleon.
                                  • Iain Burns
                                    Hullo John... Take a look at our (your?) website for my take on things... just click on the 1812 link.
                                    Message 17 of 28 , Sep 3, 2008
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                                      Hullo John...

                                      Take a look at our (your?) website for my take on things... just click on the "1812" link.

                                      http://www.the-black-watch-lha.org/1815/<http://www.the-black-watch-lha.org/1815/>

                                      Aye,
                                      Iain

                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      From: John Potter<mailto:potts4259@...>
                                      To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com<mailto:WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                                      Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 10:56 PM
                                      Subject: Re: 1812 Officer / NCO school..?



                                      Thanks Gord,

                                      I'll check out some websites to see how the manual/s of arms compare
                                      with what I'm used to. I was intrigued at your separation of 1812
                                      stuff from the broader Napoleonic scene - isn't the War of 1812
                                      considered part of the Napoleonic Wars here..?

                                      Cheers,

                                      John

                                      --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com<mailto:WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>, "Gord Deans" <gord.deans@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > John,
                                      >
                                      > This school is held in April of each year at Fort York, Toronto,
                                      > Ontario for the NCOs and officers of 1812 British Crown Forces
                                      units.
                                      > These unit leaders get refreshment training and drill in the manual
                                      of
                                      > arms and parade as practiced by 1812 units in order that they can in
                                      > turn train their units before the reenactment season begins in May
                                      at
                                      > Longwoods, near London, Ontario.
                                      >
                                      > Versions of the manual of arms can be found at the web sites of some
                                      > infantry units such as the 1st Royal Scots.
                                      >
                                      > This is separate from any Napoleonic associations.
                                      >
                                      > Gord Deans,
                                      > HMS Charwell Landing Party.
                                      >
                                      > -----Original Message-----
                                      > From: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com<mailto:WarOf1812%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com<mailto:WarOf1812%40yahoogroups.com>]
                                      On
                                      > Behalf Of John Potter
                                      > Sent: September 2, 2008 10:36 PM
                                      > To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com<mailto:WarOf1812%40yahoogroups.com>
                                      > Subject: 1812 Officer / NCO school..?
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > G'day all,
                                      >
                                      > Just noticed the reference to the Officer / NCO school in April.
                                      > Assuming that this is for British Napoleonic forces, can someone
                                      > please enlighten me as to where and when this will be happening..?
                                      > Which manual do you follow here..? Are you linked in with the drill
                                      > and organisation of the British Napoleonic Association and/or the
                                      > British Battalion of the European Napoleonic Society..?
                                      >
                                      > Thanks,
                                      >
                                      > John
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com<mailto:WarOf1812%40yahoogroups.com>, "Dave Westhouse" <westhouse@>
                                      > wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > Chris,
                                      > >
                                      > > Obviously the other units portraying other Lincoln Militia units
                                      > would
                                      > > be of great help. Other than that, read the drill manual and
                                      attend
                                      > > the Officer/NCO school in April. Someone to run you through it all
                                      > > would help too.
                                      > >
                                      > > Why the change?
                                      > >
                                      > > Dave Westhouse,
                                      > > 1st Royal Scots Battn.
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > ...but If anyone hasany information I could use to help portray
                                      this
                                      > > unit as well as we can it would be greatly appreciated. Commands,
                                      > > drills, etc..
                                      > >
                                      > > God save the king
                                      > >
                                      > > Signed, Captain Wilkinson of the 5th Lincoln Militia
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > ------------------------------------
                                      >
                                      > War of 1812 Living History:
                                      > A wide-ranging information exchange
                                      > for all participants and supporters
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > Unit Contact information for North America:
                                      > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                                      > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com<http://1812crownforces.tripod.com/>
                                      > American Forces Unit Listing
                                      > http://usforces1812.tripod.com<http://usforces1812.tripod.com/>
                                      >
                                      > WAR OF 1812 EVENTS LIST:
                                      > http://royal.scots.tripod.com/warof1812eventslistYahoo<http://royal.scotstripod.com/warof1812eventslistYahoo>! Groups
                                      > Links
                                      >





                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • BritcomHMP@aol.com
                                      The (Bonapartist) French most certainly did encourage the war ad see it as a second front. When Napoleon returned from exile in Elba he sent advisors to the US
                                      Message 18 of 28 , Sep 3, 2008
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                                        The (Bonapartist) French most certainly did encourage the war ad see it as a second front. When Napoleon returned from exile in Elba he sent advisors to the US including Gerneral Humbert of the 'Year of the French' fame. Humbert was commanding at the attle of Ballinamuck in Ireland where the young Edward Michael Pakenhan first saw action.

                                        Humbert was with?Andrew Jackson at New Orleans and Jackson?sent him to the West Bank of the river?with re-inforcements for Morgan and originaly intended that he should take command in that sector but the troops refsed to be commanded by a "Foreigner".

                                        Cheers

                                        Tim


                                        -----Original Message-----
                                        From: Gord Deans <gord.deans@...>
                                        To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                                        Sent: Tue, 2 Sep 2008 10:56 pm
                                        Subject: RE: 1812 Officer / NCO school...?






                                        John asked:
                                        "isn't the War of 1812 considered part of the Napoleonic Wars
                                        here...?"

                                        The North American answer would be "NO."

                                        However, taking the broader French / Napoleonic point of view, it was
                                        a second front in the Napoleonic War that was meant to distract and
                                        weaken the British. I am sure that there was French intervention
                                        behind the scenes to provoke the Americans into declaring war (and
                                        they thought that they were just going shopping). Although the United
                                        States was almost as equally prone to declare war on France as on
                                        Britain as a result of the trade embargoes, French manipulations
                                        probably tipped the balance.

                                        "When gold changes hands, it also usually changes hearts." Who knows
                                        what great American family fortune began with the War of 1812 in spite
                                        of an economy that was about to collapse.

                                        Michael, here is your popcorn.






                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • BritcomHMP@aol.com
                                        Nonetheless the British Army in hcAmerica was the Napoleonic or rather the Wellingtonian army. Certainly it was adapted to new conditions of campaign but
                                        Message 19 of 28 , Sep 3, 2008
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                                          Nonetheless the British Army in hcAmerica was the 'Napoleonic' or rather the 'Wellingtonian' army. Certainly it was adapted to new conditions of campaign but it was the same army in every respect, indeed after the first abdication of Buonapart the Naoleonic veterans shipped out to North America much to the cagin of Wellington at Waterloo who didn't have many of his veterans aailable to him.

                                          The biggest effect the Napoleonic wars had on the war of 1812 (in my opinion) was at the battle of New Oreans where, despite the urging of officers who had exerience in the Americas, Pakenham couldn't beleve that Jacksons entrnched and fortified line was anything but a death trap and so?made is first advance as a reconnasance in force rather than an all out attack (he never did have the 3 to one troop ratio that was the rule to take such a position from?seasoned troops). Had he done so he would have carried the position on December 28th.
                                          ?
                                          The Army might have had to adapt for service in North America but it most certainly was the same force used in Europe, and all ovr the world.?
                                          Which reminds me I wonder if we could?re-enact the defeat the Gurkhas in Nepal 1815, first time they had ever been conqured and the begining of their long and glorious history of service with the British Army.

                                          Cheers

                                          Tim?


                                          -----Original Message-----
                                          From: Gord Deans <gord.deans@...>
                                          To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                                          Sent: Wed, 3 Sep 2008 12:10 am
                                          Subject: RE: 1812 Officer / NCO school...?






                                          The British Army and Navy in North America used the same manuals,
                                          rules and regulations.

                                          War of 1812 reenactors in North America reenact actual North American
                                          battles and portray actual North American regiments on original battle
                                          sites and on the original scale of companies and regiments (and
                                          usually without cavalry). Until Plattsburgh, there were few
                                          engagements consisting of more than a couple of half-strength British
                                          regiments. Some current Napoleonic reenactments are larger than any
                                          actual North American battles two hundred years ago.

                                          There was neither the resources nor the terrain in North America for
                                          the massive armies and tactics of the Napoleonic Wars. The logistics
                                          and tactics of multiple armies and divisions in well-populated areas
                                          was very different from those of regiments and companies in
                                          sparsely-populated areas. Armies on the scale of hundreds of
                                          thousands would have starved to death after a few days in the field
                                          (or before even getting to the field) in North America.

                                          Some progressives will argue (not me), that Napoleonic reenacting in
                                          North America (except in preparation for trips to Europe) is
                                          equivalent to Middle Ages reenacting in North America -- colourful and
                                          fun but not "real" or relevant to the North American experience.

                                          Napoleonic reenacting and War of 1812 reenacting might "look the same"
                                          but are really quite separate events, organizations and units.

                                          -----Original Message-----
                                          From: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com] On
                                          Behalf Of JGIL1812@...
                                          Sent: September 3, 2008 12:31 AM
                                          To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                                          Subject: Re: 1812 Officer / NCO school..?

                                          In a message dated 9/2/2008 8:18:07 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
                                          gord.deans@... writes:

                                          <<<but it would be anachronistic and
                                          confusing to the public to portray Napoleonic regiments and tactics
                                          on
                                          the actual sites of North American battles.>>>

                                          Gord,

                                          Are you saying that the British army in Canada during the Napoleonic
                                          Wars
                                          didn't follow the same drill and tactics as their European bound
                                          brothers?

                                          JG/RE






                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • Tom Hurlbut
                                          My daughter s in Nepal right now.. I ll ask her to see if they re interested.. ;-) See you at the GT! Lt. Tom ... From: BritcomHMP@aol.com To:
                                          Message 20 of 28 , Sep 3, 2008
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                                            My daughter's in Nepal right now.. I'll ask her to see if they're interested.. ;-)

                                            See you at the GT!

                                            "Lt." Tom

                                            ----- Original Message -----
                                            From: BritcomHMP@...
                                            To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                                            Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 10:22 AM
                                            Subject: Re: 1812 Officer / NCO school...?


                                            Nonetheless the British Army in hcAmerica was the 'Napoleonic' or rather the 'Wellingtonian' army. Certainly it was adapted to new conditions of campaign but it was the same army in every respect, indeed after the first abdication of Buonapart the Naoleonic veterans shipped out to North America much to the cagin of Wellington at Waterloo who didn't have many of his veterans aailable to him.

                                            The biggest effect the Napoleonic wars had on the war of 1812 (in my opinion) was at the battle of New Oreans where, despite the urging of officers who had exerience in the Americas, Pakenham couldn't beleve that Jacksons entrnched and fortified line was anything but a death trap and so?made is first advance as a reconnasance in force rather than an all out attack (he never did have the 3 to one troop ratio that was the rule to take such a position from?seasoned troops). Had he done so he would have carried the position on December 28th.
                                            ?
                                            The Army might have had to adapt for service in North America but it most certainly was the same force used in Europe, and all ovr the world.?
                                            Which reminds me I wonder if we could?re-enact the defeat the Gurkhas in Nepal 1815, first time they had ever been conqured and the begining of their long and glorious history of service with the British Army.

                                            Cheers

                                            Tim?

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                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • BritcomHMP@aol.com
                                            My daughter s in Nepal right now.. I ll ask her to see if they re interested.. ;-) Well, I might just stay on the sidelines for this, I know the Gurkhas get
                                            Message 21 of 28 , Sep 3, 2008
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                                              My daughter's in Nepal right now.. I'll ask her to see if they're interested.. ;-)




                                              Well, I might just stay on the sidelines for this, I know the Gurkhas get very enthusiastic and their old method of dispatching senior officers (if they could get to them) was to dodge under the horse and disembowel or hamstring it, then take the head off the rider!

                                              With?1808-15 wars we often thiink of actions being confined to Europe and North America but it was very much a World War for Britain with actions in South America, India, Java, the Caibbean etc. and of course if we go back to the Revolutionary war?with France we can include Egypt, Palestine, and lots of other places too, including any ocean where a French and British ship might meet.

                                              Cheers

                                              Tim




                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            • mimathews@comcast.net
                                              Exactly, some fascinating and oft time highly significant actions on the fringes. Of which North America is a part. I ll take this opportunity to put in a
                                              Message 22 of 28 , Sep 3, 2008
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                                                Exactly, some fascinating and oft time highly significant actions "on the fringes." Of which North America is a part. I'll take this opportunity to put in a plug for one of my favorite books, "Dreams of Empire" by Paul Fregosi. Worth a read for anyone wanted the "big picture" effect.

                                                Michael

                                                --
                                                A Truism - For every action, there is an equal and opposite criticism.

                                                -------------- Original message --------------
                                                From: BritcomHMP@...



                                                With?1808-15 wars we often thiink of actions being confined to Europe and North America but it was very much a World War for Britain with actions in South America, India, Java, the Caibbean etc. and of course if we go back to the Revolutionary war?with France we can include Egypt, Palestine, and lots of other places too, including any ocean where a French and British ship might meet.

                                                Cheers

                                                Tim

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                                              • jeff.mason10
                                                Hi My name is Jeff Mason, a member of the Royal Scots Lights. Thought I would pop in and see what was up on the forum. I have a general interest in military
                                                Message 23 of 28 , Jul 26, 2011
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                                                  Hi My name is Jeff Mason, a member of the Royal Scots Lights. Thought I would pop in and see what was up on the forum. I have a general interest in military history, with Napoleonics, American Civil War, English Civil War, and Ancients being of particular interest.
                                                • MasterAtArms
                                                  Welcome to the list, Jeff! Dale Kidd Master at Arms, H.M. Provincial Marine
                                                  Message 24 of 28 , Jul 27, 2011
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                                                    Welcome to the list, Jeff!

                                                    Dale Kidd
                                                    Master at Arms,
                                                    H.M. Provincial Marine
                                                  • Glenn Davis
                                                    DALE, Greetings from Tennessee! I ve just recently joined your HMMarines group,,,even though I have no real idea of just when I ll be able to start getting my
                                                    Message 25 of 28 , Jul 27, 2011
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                                                      DALE, Greetings from Tennessee! I've just recently joined your HMMarines group,,,even though I have no real idea of just when I'll be able to start getting my kit together and actually be able to attend an event where your group will be present,,,but was just wondering how active the HM Marine group still is,,,active that is? I've looked at your web site and from what I can remember there rerally isn't much there as far as a schedule,,,and was wondering just how far in advnace that the group does try to plan a schedule,,,any info that you could give me would be greatly appreciated! YOS, Glenn Davis

                                                      --- On Wed, 7/27/11, MasterAtArms <ucpm_gunner@...> wrote:


                                                      From: MasterAtArms <ucpm_gunner@...>
                                                      Subject: 1812 Re: Hello to all
                                                      To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                                                      Date: Wednesday, July 27, 2011, 12:34 PM


                                                       



                                                      Welcome to the list, Jeff!

                                                      Dale Kidd
                                                      Master at Arms,
                                                      H.M. Provincial Marine








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