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Re: 1812 Re: Master and Commander

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  • John Ogden
    Now we just need a script and someone to pitch it to... ... -- John J. Ogden Hanley School of Law Duquesne University Class of 2011 Who does not see that the
    Message 1 of 17 , Aug 1, 2008
      Now we just need a script and someone to pitch it to...

      On 8/1/08, suthren@... <suthren@...> wrote:
      >
      > I really think the story of the Lake Erie naval race,culminating at
      > Put-in Bay, would make a terrific film, particularly because of several
      > factors: (a) Perry and Barclay were both honourable men and fine seamen, and
      > did the best they could under trying conditions; (b) Perry's seamanship in
      > getting his fleet out 'over the bar' was masterful; (c) Barclay manned his
      > fleet with Brits, Canadians and Warriors, and fought hard and
      > courageously---as did Perry's men---in a close-fought battle that could have
      > gone either way; and (d) Perry and his men treated Barclay's men with
      > honour, and the seamen worked together to put things back together after the
      > battle. And Perry tended Barclay personally, even supporting him as they
      > stood at the burial of the officers of both fleets ashore. Courage,
      > seamanship, honour and the behavior of brave "officers and gentlemen" who
      > respected one another. It doesn't get any better than that. And what a film
      > it would make....
      >
      > Vic
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: JGIL1812@... <JGIL1812%40aol.com>
      > To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com <WarOf1812%40yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 11:49 AM
      > Subject: Re: 1812 Re: Master and Commander
      >
      > Vic,
      >
      > You've raised an interesting side conversation here. If you were making a
      > film today centered on the War of 1812, who would be the central characters
      > to
      > make it saleable to the American and Canadian movie or TV audiences? As you
      >
      > have mentioned Barney, Perry and Scott I am sure that there are other
      > choices
      > that would make a decent film palatable to both sides of the border.
      > Waiting
      > to hear from the world!
      >
      > JG/RE
      >
      > In a message dated 8/1/2008 5:09:32 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
      > suthren@... <suthren%40magma.ca> writes:
      >
      > <<In our 1812 era let's hope that the upcoming Bicentennial stirs in some
      > flinty Hollywood heart the urge to see box-office in, say, the exploits of
      > Joshua Barney or Oliver Hazard Perry (or even 'Old Fuss And Feathers'
      > Winfield
      > Scott) who battle Brits and Canadians that are gallant and worthy foes, not
      >
      > despicable near-criminals. We can hope, eh?>>
      >
      > **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for
      > FanHouse Fantasy Football today.
      > (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020)
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >



      --
      John J. Ogden
      Hanley School of Law
      Duquesne University
      Class of 2011

      "Who does not see that the same authority which can establish Christianity
      in exclusion of all other religions may establish, with the same ease, any
      particular sect of Christians in exclusion of all other sects?" -- James
      Madison, June 20, 1785

      "As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense,
      founded on the Christian religion; as it has in itself no character of
      enmity against the laws, religion, or tranquility, of Musselmen; and, as the
      said States never entered into any war, or act of hostility against any
      Mahometan nation, it is declared by the parties, that no pretext arising
      from religious opinions, shall ever produce an interruption of the harmony
      existing between the two countries." -- Article 11 of the Treaty of Peace
      and Friendship between the United States and the Bey and Subjects of Tripoli
      of Barbary, 3 Junad 1211 (Muslim calendar), 4 November 1796 C.E..


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • suthren@magma.ca
      I really think the story of the Lake Erie naval race,culminating at Put-in Bay, would make a terrific film, particularly because of several factors: (a) Perry
      Message 2 of 17 , Aug 1, 2008
        I really think the story of the Lake Erie naval race,culminating at Put-in Bay, would make a terrific film, particularly because of several factors: (a) Perry and Barclay were both honourable men and fine seamen, and did the best they could under trying conditions; (b) Perry's seamanship in getting his fleet out 'over the bar' was masterful; (c) Barclay manned his fleet with Brits, Canadians and Warriors, and fought hard and courageously---as did Perry's men---in a close-fought battle that could have gone either way; and (d) Perry and his men treated Barclay's men with honour, and the seamen worked together to put things back together after the battle. And Perry tended Barclay personally, even supporting him as they stood at the burial of the officers of both fleets ashore. Courage, seamanship, honour and the behavior of brave "officers and gentlemen" who respected one another. It doesn't get any better than that. And what a film it would make....

        Vic
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: JGIL1812@...
        To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Friday, August 01, 2008 11:49 AM
        Subject: Re: 1812 Re: Master and Commander


        Vic,

        You've raised an interesting side conversation here. If you were making a
        film today centered on the War of 1812, who would be the central characters to
        make it saleable to the American and Canadian movie or TV audiences? As you
        have mentioned Barney, Perry and Scott I am sure that there are other choices
        that would make a decent film palatable to both sides of the border. Waiting
        to hear from the world!

        JG/RE


        In a message dated 8/1/2008 5:09:32 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,
        suthren@... writes:

        <<In our 1812 era let's hope that the upcoming Bicentennial stirs in some
        flinty Hollywood heart the urge to see box-office in, say, the exploits of
        Joshua Barney or Oliver Hazard Perry (or even 'Old Fuss And Feathers' Winfield
        Scott) who battle Brits and Canadians that are gallant and worthy foes, not
        despicable near-criminals. We can hope, eh?>>

        **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for
        FanHouse Fantasy Football today.
        (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020)

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • BritcomHMP@aol.com
        In a message dated 8/1/2008 7:09:22 AM Central Daylight Time, suthren@magma.ca writes: In our 1812 era let s hope that the upcoming Bicentennial stirs in some
        Message 3 of 17 , Aug 1, 2008
          In a message dated 8/1/2008 7:09:22 AM Central Daylight Time,
          suthren@... writes:

          In our 1812 era let's hope that the upcoming Bicentennial stirs in some
          flinty Hollywood heart the urge to see box-office in, say, the exploits of Joshua
          Barney or Oliver Hazard Perry (or even 'Old Fuss And Feathers' Winfield
          Scott) who battle Brits and Canadians that are gallant and worthy foes, not
          despicable near-criminals. We can hope, eh?




          -------------------------------------

          Don't bank on it, this stupid atitude is so ingrained that a few years ago
          I, and other members of this list, were present at a Battle of New Orleans
          commemoration where the emenent historian Robert Remini (Andrew Jackson expert
          and the official historian of the US Congress) was invited to speak. He shocked
          - no horified many of his listeners when aften making many questionable
          remarks about the British, in the presence of many local dignitaries, including
          the Honorary British Consul, he tried to bring his talk uo to date with the
          statement "and today we are again fighting against terrorists who would like to
          end our way of life"!!

          When one has higly respected historians coming out with such brain dead
          statements what can we expect from Hollywood.

          Cheers,

          Tim



          **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget?
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        • Dale Kidd
          Sadly, it seems that the concept of honourable treatment of one s emnemies is out of fashion in Hollywood today, whether historically factual or not. I shudder
          Message 4 of 17 , Aug 1, 2008
            Sadly, it seems that the concept of honourable treatment of one's
            emnemies is out of fashion in Hollywood today, whether historically
            factual or not. I shudder to think of how any portrayal of the Battle
            of Put-in Bay produced today would treat Barclay. He would almost
            certainly die spitted on the blade of a grimacing Perry, who would
            likely be played by Hollywood's all-American hunk de jour. Barclay,
            naturally, would be played by some weasely-looking fellow with a
            British accent.

            Perhaps it would be better if Hollywood did NOT take too close an
            interest in the bicentennial.... they might actually succeed in
            rekindling the war.

            ~Dale
          • dzallis
            ... some ... exploits of Joshua ... Winfield ... foes, not ... Orleans ... Jackson expert ... speak. He shocked ... questionable ... dignitaries, including ...
            Message 5 of 17 , Aug 2, 2008
              --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, BritcomHMP@... wrote:
              >
              >
              > In a message dated 8/1/2008 7:09:22 AM Central Daylight Time,
              > suthren@... writes:
              >
              > In our 1812 era let's hope that the upcoming Bicentennial stirs in
              some
              > flinty Hollywood heart the urge to see box-office in, say, the
              exploits of Joshua
              > Barney or Oliver Hazard Perry (or even 'Old Fuss And Feathers'
              Winfield
              > Scott) who battle Brits and Canadians that are gallant and worthy
              foes, not
              > despicable near-criminals. We can hope, eh?
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > --------------------------
              > Don't bank on it, this -----------
              > stupid atitude is so ingrained that a few years ago
              > I, and other members of this list, were present at a Battle of New
              Orleans
              > commemoration where the emenent historian Robert Remini (Andrew
              Jackson expert
              > and the official historian of the US Congress) was invited to
              speak. He shocked
              > - no horified many of his listeners when aften making many
              questionable
              > remarks about the British, in the presence of many local
              dignitaries, including
              > the Honorary British Consul, he tried to bring his talk uo to date
              with the
              > statement "and today we are again fighting against terrorists who
              would like to
              > end our way of life"!!
              >
              > When one has higly respected historians coming out with such brain
              dead
              > statements what can we expect from Hollywood.
              >
              > Cheers,
              >
              > Tim
              >I remember hearing Robert Remini talk on one of the History
              Channels. He was so one sided in regards to Jackson that it was
              repugnant. Later, I was watching one of the Richard Sharpe series and
              during the commercial breaks Richard Cornwell was asked some
              questions. The most interesting was, he was asked if the French were
              really that bad. He replied that they were not but it was done for
              dramatic effect. Then there must be something against portraying the
              soldiesr as they really were. After all, soldiers probably fight for
              their comrades rather than the symbols we are shown.

              Warmest respects,
              David Vargo
              >
              >
              > **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your
              budget?
              > Read reviews on AOL Autos.
              > (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?
              ncid=aolaut00050000000017 )
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • BritcomHMP@aol.com
              In a message dated 8/2/2008 11:26:32 AM Central Daylight Time, Davidjrvargo@aol.com writes: Then there must be something against portraying the soldiesr as
              Message 6 of 17 , Aug 2, 2008
                In a message dated 8/2/2008 11:26:32 AM Central Daylight Time,
                Davidjrvargo@... writes:

                Then there must be something against portraying the
                soldiesr as they really were. After all, soldiers probably fight for
                their comrades rather than the symbols we are shown.




                --------------------------------------

                Very True David. I think a very good method is to try to tell the same story
                twice, one from eavch side, which is actualy what I did in my New Orleans
                book. The funny thing is I still got criticised by some people for being anti US
                or rather pro British. It seemed that some took my pro US statements as just
                a plain statement of fact and my pro Brit statements as anti US lies.

                On the movie screen this has been done a few times, examples include Tora!
                Tora! Tora! in which they basicaly made two films form two different poits of
                view and edited them into one, and more recently Clint Eastwood's movies Flags
                of Our Fathers and Letters from Iwo Jima which looked at the same event from
                the two sides. Personaly I think that this would be a great way to portray
                the war of 1812, I really do not understand the obsession at justifying
                killing the enemy by having to portray him as evil incarnate (unless he actualy
                was).
                I put it down to modern touchy feely ideas that allof this heroism is very
                bad and the only reason it can ever be glorified is if the other chap is so
                intolerable that they had to be wiped from the face of the earth.

                I don't think the one of my favorite lines from Zulu would ever be used
                today,

                "You know, even as I was shooting em' I was proud of em'"

                Cheers

                Tim



                **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget?
                Read reviews on AOL Autos.
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