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Master and Commander (again)

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  • suthren@magma.ca
    The disappointing box-office results for M&C were caused by its lack of an interesting stoiryline that would capture a wider audience. Gladiator , which also
    Message 1 of 13 , Jul 31 2:31 PM
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      The disappointing box-office results for M&C were caused by its lack of an interesting stoiryline that would capture a wider audience. "Gladiator", which also starred Russell Crowe, won just such as audience through its powerful storyline even thought rife with inaccuracies about the Roman Empire. M&C was criticised to a degree---at least among those in the naval or maritime world who could spot them---for its errors in seamanship and the naval culture and methods of 1805, and this prevented the film from truly gaining an aura of historical quality in spite of its less than successful storyline---but again, grantedly only among those who know better. For those who don't know the difference between a selvagee strop and a stay tackle, M&C will look fine as an historical piece of the Napoleonic era. But for those who know, the pity is that it could have been so, so much better.

      Vic Suthren

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • James Yaworsky
      ... of an interesting stoiryline that would capture a wider audience. Gladiator , which also starred Russell Crowe, won just such as audience through its
      Message 2 of 13 , Jul 31 3:32 PM
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        --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, <suthren@...> wrote:
        >
        > The disappointing box-office results for M&C were caused by its lack
        of an interesting stoiryline that would capture a wider audience.
        "Gladiator", which also starred Russell Crowe, won just such as
        audience through its powerful storyline even thought rife with
        inaccuracies about the Roman Empire.

        Can't disagree with you there, Vic. "Gladiator" was M&C on
        mega-steroids, action-wise... throw in the obligatory half-dressed
        slave girls, gladiator fights for the sadists with "hunks" for the
        ladies, and the lack of any other big-movie competition at the time it
        came out, and "presto" - a movie that ripped off most of its plot from
        The Fall of the Roman Empire (Alec Guiness, Stephen Boyd, etc) and
        used sound clips from "Zulu" for the initial German/Roman battle was
        suddenly a box office smash. It says a lot about the paucity of
        Hollywood's offerings that year that "Gladiator" got the best picture
        Oscar! ;>)

        Jim Yaworsky
        41st
      • Christopher Obee
        I think that the folks that objected most strenuously to the M&C movie were the fans of the books. The butchery of the plot and characters satisfied no one.
        Message 3 of 13 , Jul 31 4:38 PM
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          I think that the folks that objected most strenuously to the M&C movie were
          the fans of the books. The butchery of the plot and characters satisfied no
          one. It was as if the director had wanted the period and the title and
          nothing else. To be honest it would not be possible to satisfy my
          expectation of the movie. The books were too powerful and the imagery too
          evocative for any movie to imitate. Still I maintain that the most heinous
          fault of M&C the movie was that it made a concerted effort to pander to the
          average public and failed. I made the mistake of seeing the movie with two
          people who had no knowledge of the period and none of wooden ships. They
          were lost the entire time and peppered me with questions throughout the
          movie.



          _____

          From: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
          Of suthren@...
          Sent: Thursday, July 31, 2008 5:31 PM
          To: Warof1812@egroups.com (E-mail)
          Subject: 1812 Master and Commander (again)



          The disappointing box-office results for M&C were caused by its lack of an
          interesting stoiryline that would capture a wider audience. "Gladiator",
          which also starred Russell Crowe, won just such as audience through its
          powerful storyline even thought rife with inaccuracies about the Roman
          Empire. M&C was criticised to a degree---at least among those in the naval
          or maritime world who could spot them---for its errors in seamanship and the
          naval culture and methods of 1805, and this prevented the film from truly
          gaining an aura of historical quality in spite of its less than successful
          storyline---but again, grantedly only among those who know better. For those
          who don't know the difference between a selvagee strop and a stay tackle,
          M&C will look fine as an historical piece of the Napoleonic era. But for
          those who know, the pity is that it could have been so, so much better.

          Vic Suthren

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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        • BritcomHMP@aol.com
          In a message dated 7/31/2008 5:33:23 PM Central Daylight Time, yawors1@uwindsor.ca writes: a movie that ripped off most of its plot from The Fall of the Roman
          Message 4 of 13 , Jul 31 9:37 PM
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            In a message dated 7/31/2008 5:33:23 PM Central Daylight Time,
            yawors1@... writes:

            a movie that ripped off most of its plot from
            The Fall of the Roman Empire (Alec Guiness, Stephen Boyd, etc) and
            used sound clips from "Zulu"


            -------

            Ah but though it starts with 'The Fall of the Roman Empire' it segues into
            'Spartacus' (with Oliver Reed playing the Peter Ustinov part) before returning
            to FotRE (with Derek Jacobi in the Charles Lawton part, even has the same
            character name).
            I think the biggest giveaway to the rip off of plot is thje Praetorians
            forming a mini arena with their shields, in FotRE this is because Stephen Boyd
            and Christpher Plumer are fighting in a city plaza, why they do it in an actual
            arena is for one reson only, the director thought it looked 'cool'in the
            original film!



            **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for
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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Craig Williams
            .... And when you think about it, those damned Romans stole everything from the Greeks! CW ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            Message 5 of 13 , Aug 1, 2008
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              .... And when you think about it, those damned Romans stole
              everything from the Greeks!


              CW
              On 1-Aug-08, at 12:37 AM, BritcomHMP@... wrote:

              >
              > In a message dated 7/31/2008 5:33:23 PM Central Daylight Time,
              > yawors1@... writes:
              >
              > a movie that ripped off most of its plot from
              > The Fall of the Roman Empire (Alec Guiness, Stephen Boyd, etc) and
              > used sound clips from "Zulu"
              >
              > -------
              >
              > Ah but though it starts with 'The Fall of the Roman Empire' it
              > segues into
              > 'Spartacus' (with Oliver Reed playing the Peter Ustinov part)
              > before returning
              > to FotRE (with Derek Jacobi in the Charles Lawton part, even has
              > the same
              > character name).


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • James Yaworsky
              Sir Laurence Olivier: So which damned one s Spartacus?!? ; ) Jim Yaworsky [sorry - couldn t resist...]
              Message 6 of 13 , Aug 1, 2008
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                Sir Laurence Olivier: "So which damned one's Spartacus?!?" ;>)

                Jim Yaworsky

                [sorry - couldn't resist...]


                > On 1-Aug-08, at 12:37 AM, BritcomHMP@... wrote:
                > > Ah but though it starts with 'The Fall of the Roman Empire' it
                > > segues into
                > > 'Spartacus' (with Oliver Reed playing the Peter Ustinov part)
              • whittakermp
                I don t know the difference between a selvage strop and a stay tackle, but I ll figure it out. Vic, do you give tutorials? Many of the unwashed who read Pierre
                Message 7 of 13 , Aug 2, 2008
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                  I don't know the difference between a selvage strop and a stay tackle,
                  but I'll figure it out. Vic, do you give tutorials?

                  Many of the unwashed who read Pierre Berton's volumes on the War of
                  1812 may not have picked out his errors. Nonetheless, his work
                  attracted many to the hobby and then they learned. All things come
                  through experience and much like schooling, it takes time to become
                  educated.

                  Tree things were right in The Pariot: Benjamin Martin's rage over his
                  son's death acted out on the lobsterback he hacked; the debate in the
                  legislature over going to war; and Aunt Charolotte busting out of her
                  stays.

                  And Gladiator...what about those teutonic Zulus chanting in the forest?

                  Michael Whittaker
                • Gord Deans
                  If you are reading the latest edition of the Journal of the War of 1812, Volume 11, No. 2, on Page 5 do NOT be mislead by the article about Port Claiborne,
                  Message 8 of 13 , Aug 2, 2008
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                    If you are reading the latest edition of the Journal of the War of
                    1812, Volume 11, No. 2, on Page 5 do NOT be mislead by the article
                    about Port Claiborne, Ontario, which 'seek[s] to put Port Claiborne
                    "on the map."'

                    Port Claiborne, Ontario, is NOT and NEVER will be on the map.
                    Port Claiborne, Ontario, does NOT exist except in the editor's mind.
                    Dan Anger does NOT exist.
                    There is a Don Anger, a local historian with several books to his
                    credit.
                    The Port Claiborne Historical and Marine Museum does NOT exist.
                    There is a Port Colborne Historical and Marine Museum.
                    And yes, Virginia is the curator and Don's wife.

                    Could this be the result of the collision of dyslexia with a
                    typographical error or is it part of a sinister plot by Cousin
                    Jonathan to create a new city in Ontario?

                    It can only be hoped for that the historical facts presented will be a
                    little more accurate.



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Craig Williams
                    ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    Message 9 of 13 , Aug 2, 2008
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                      > Gord said.....
                      >
                      > Could this be the result of the collision of dyslexia with a
                      > typographical error or is it part of a sinister plot by Cousin
                      > Jonathan to create a new city in Ontario?
                      >

                      >
                      > This is likely the same "syndrome" that has Lake Ontario and Lake
                      > Erie flipped and no Georgian Bay in the "Napoleonic Source Book" by
                      > PJ Haythornthwaite or should I say Hyahtronethwiate?
                      >
                      >

                      > Craig Williams
                      >
                      >
                      >


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • peter monahan
                      Gord said..... Could this be the result of the collision of dyslexia with a typographical error... Dyslexics of the world untie!
                      Message 10 of 13 , Aug 2, 2008
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                        Gord said.....

                        Could this be the result of the collision of dyslexia with a
                        typographical error...

                        "Dyslexics of the world untie!"
                      • BritcomHMP@aol.com
                        In a message dated 8/2/2008 4:21:25 PM Central Daylight Time, sgtwarner@sympatico.ca writes: This is likely the same syndrome that has Lake Ontario and Lake
                        Message 11 of 13 , Aug 2, 2008
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                          In a message dated 8/2/2008 4:21:25 PM Central Daylight Time,
                          sgtwarner@... writes:

                          This is likely the same "syndrome" that has Lake Ontario and Lake
                          > Erie flipped and no Georgian Bay in the "Napoleonic Source Book" by
                          > PJ Haythornthwaite or should I say Hyahtronethwiate?



                          ------------------------------------------

                          My experience of the man (from many years ago) is that now he has written it
                          down he will defend its accuracy to the death, I never knew him to admit a
                          mistake.

                          'So he has written, so shall it be!'



                          **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget?
                          Read reviews on AOL Autos.
                          (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00050000000017 )


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Craig Williams
                          So therefore, by that logic, I now live in Hamilton at the head of Lake Erie? );^P Craig ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          Message 12 of 13 , Aug 3, 2008
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                            So therefore, by that logic, I now live in Hamilton at the head of
                            Lake Erie?

                            );^P

                            Craig
                            On 3-Aug-08, at 12:33 AM, BritcomHMP@... wrote:

                            >
                            > In a message dated 8/2/2008 4:21:25 PM Central Daylight Time,
                            > sgtwarner@... writes:
                            >
                            > This is likely the same "syndrome" that has Lake Ontario and Lake
                            > > Erie flipped and no Georgian Bay in the "Napoleonic Source Book" by
                            > > PJ Haythornthwaite or should I say Hyahtronethwiate?
                            >
                            > ------------------------------------------
                            >
                            > My experience of the man (from many years ago) is that now he has
                            > written it
                            > down he will defend its accuracy to the death, I never knew him to
                            > admit a
                            > mistake.
                            >
                            > 'So he has written, so shall it be!'
                            >
                            > **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your
                            > budget?
                            > Read reviews on AOL Autos.
                            > (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?
                            > ncid=aolaut00050000000017 )
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                            >
                            >



                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Ray Hobbs
                            And, speaking of Hamilton. I have lost count of the number of misplacings of Burlington Heights in maps in books on the War of 1812. The location seems to be
                            Message 13 of 13 , Aug 3, 2008
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                              And, speaking of Hamilton. I have lost count of the number of
                              misplacings of "Burlington Heights" in maps in books on the War of
                              1812. The location seems to be the most mobile of any and all other
                              sites - ranging from St. Catharine's to Milton.
                              Ray H
                              41st



                              On 3-Aug-08, at 9:04 AM, Craig Williams wrote:

                              > So therefore, by that logic, I now live in Hamilton at the head of
                              > Lake Erie?
                              >
                              > );^P
                              >
                              > Craig
                              > On 3-Aug-08, at 12:33 AM, BritcomHMP@... wrote:
                              >
                              > >
                              > > In a message dated 8/2/2008 4:21:25 PM Central Daylight Time,
                              > > sgtwarner@... writes:
                              > >
                              > > This is likely the same "syndrome" that has Lake Ontario and Lake
                              > > > Erie flipped and no Georgian Bay in the "Napoleonic Source Book"
                              > by
                              > > > PJ Haythornthwaite or should I say Hyahtronethwiate?
                              > >
                              > > ------------------------------------------
                              > >
                              > > My experience of the man (from many years ago) is that now he has
                              > > written it
                              > > down he will defend its accuracy to the death, I never knew him to
                              > > admit a
                              > > mistake.
                              > >
                              > > 'So he has written, so shall it be!'
                              > >
                              > > **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your
                              > > budget?
                              > > Read reviews on AOL Autos.
                              > > (http://autos.aol.com/cars-BMW-128-2008/expert-review?
                              > > ncid=aolaut00050000000017 )
                              > >
                              > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              > >
                              > >
                              > >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                              >
                              >

                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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