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War of 1812

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  • Rob Taylor
    Dr. Wesley B. Turner an Associate Professor of History at Brock University in St. Catherines Ontario puts it this way in one of his books. Who won the War of
    Message 1 of 13 , Feb 21, 1999
      Dr. Wesley B. Turner an Associate Professor of History at Brock
      University in St. Catherines Ontario puts it this way in one of his
      books.

      Who won the War of 1812?

      The Americans tend to think they did. They won several big land
      battles that in certain cases prevented major British invasions. They
      conquered part of Upper Canada and won control of the two lakes. They
      still take great pride in several single ship victories. Combat at sea
      and on land created heroes and inspired traditions in the navy and
      army. For instance, the grey dress uniform worn by cadets at the
      United States Military Academy at West Point commemorates the victory
      at Chippawa in 1814 where the troops there wore grey. Finally, the
      United States did not lose anything. In fact, Americans believed that
      their country was more respected as a result of the war, that it had
      proved it's strength and independence.
      The Canadian view is different. Canadians believe the main American
      aim was to conquer Canada. This was not achieved, and therefore the
      Canadian side won the war. Certainly, the major American war effort
      was on land and directed against Canada, particularly Upper Canada.
      Canadians remember the defeat of large American forces by smaller
      numbers of defenders. They forgot or disregard western Upper Canada or
      American victories on Lake Erie and Champlain as well in single ship
      fighting at sea. Canada did not have war aims because it did not seek
      war. Simply, the fact they survived is an argument that the defenders
      won.
      The war of 1812 received little attention in British history books
      because it was such a minor affair compared to the long and hard
      fought Napoleonic Wars. Britain did not lose anything and was not
      forced to renounce it's policies of impressment and blockade. But
      these were wartime policies which Britain did not need to use after
      1814. The growth of British power, prestige and wealth during the
      nineteenth century pushed this little far into the background. If
      there is a British point of view, it probably agrees with the Canadian
      one.

      Rob Taylor
      ==
      War of 1812 Website: http://members.tripod.com/~war1812/
    • Andrew S. Finch
      What everybody seems to be saying is that there is a separate Canadian and British identity at the time of the war yet I do not believe this was the case. The
      Message 2 of 13 , Feb 28, 1999
        What everybody seems to be saying is that there is a separate Canadian and
        British identity at the time of the war yet I do not believe this was the
        case.
        The overwhelming view would be that the people believed themselves to be
        British
        On another trac perhaps Tim could give us some numbers but I do not believe
        the British land forces were any where as big s Russia, Prussia or Austria.
        So when we refer to Britain as a great power the reference should be a great
        maritime power .
        There isn't on battle when British land forces got over 80,000 as far as I
        know

        -----Original Message-----
        From: Rob Taylor [mailto:niagara_falls_98@...]
        Sent: Sunday, February 21, 1999 2:16 PM
        To: WarOf1812@onelist.com
        Subject: [WarOf1812] War of 1812

        From: Rob Taylor <niagara_falls_98@...>

        Dr. Wesley B. Turner an Associate Professor of History at Brock
        University in St. Catherines Ontario puts it this way in one of his
        books.

        Who won the War of 1812?

        The Americans tend to think they did. They won several big land
        battles that in certain cases prevented major British invasions. They
        conquered part of Upper Canada and won control of the two lakes. They
        still take great pride in several single ship victories. Combat at sea
        and on land created heroes and inspired traditions in the navy and
        army. For instance, the grey dress uniform worn by cadets at the
        United States Military Academy at West Point commemorates the victory
        at Chippawa in 1814 where the troops there wore grey. Finally, the
        United States did not lose anything. In fact, Americans believed that
        their country was more respected as a result of the war, that it had
        proved it's strength and independence.
        The Canadian view is different. Canadians believe the main American
        aim was to conquer Canada. This was not achieved, and therefore the
        Canadian side won the war. Certainly, the major American war effort
        was on land and directed against Canada, particularly Upper Canada.
        Canadians remember the defeat of large American forces by smaller
        numbers of defenders. They forgot or disregard western Upper Canada or
        American victories on Lake Erie and Champlain as well in single ship
        fighting at sea. Canada did not have war aims because it did not seek
        war. Simply, the fact they survived is an argument that the defenders
        won.
        The war of 1812 received little attention in British history books
        because it was such a minor affair compared to the long and hard
        fought Napoleonic Wars. Britain did not lose anything and was not
        forced to renounce it's policies of impressment and blockade. But
        these were wartime policies which Britain did not need to use after
        1814. The growth of British power, prestige and wealth during the
        nineteenth century pushed this little far into the background. If
        there is a British point of view, it probably agrees with the Canadian
        one.

        Rob Taylor
        ==
        War of 1812 Website: http://members.tripod.com/~war1812/




        ------------------------------------------------------------------------
        Come see our new web site! http://www.onelist.com
        ------------------------------------------------------------------------
        The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
        square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
        square miles...
      • Larry Lozon
        According to the Canadian History Channel they will be featuring the movie The War of 1812 on Wednesday and Thursday evening. I believe this is the film that
        Message 3 of 13 , Nov 1, 1999
          According to the Canadian History Channel
          they will be featuring the movie
          The War of 1812
          on Wednesday and Thursday evening.
          I believe this is the film that was filmed
          at Mississinewa and Fort George as
          well as other locations.
          Grab a VCR tape, as I am sure our
          American, New Zealand and British
          mates will want a copy.
          Larry
        • Greg Butt
          Don t forget your Aussie mates as well!! Sgt Gregory Butt 73rd Regt. of Foot, New South Wales, Australia ... From: Larry Lozon To: 1812
          Message 4 of 13 , Nov 4, 1999
            Don't forget your Aussie mates as well!!

            Sgt Gregory Butt
            73rd Regt. of Foot, New South Wales, Australia
            -----Original Message-----
            From: Larry Lozon <lalozon@...>
            To: 1812 OneList <WarOf1812@onelist.com>
            Date: Tuesday, 2 November 1999 15:08
            Subject: [WarOf1812] War of 1812


            According to the Canadian History Channel
            they will be featuring the movie
            The War of 1812
            on Wednesday and Thursday evening.
            I believe this is the film that was filmed
            at Mississinewa and Fort George as
            well as other locations.
            Grab a VCR tape, as I am sure our
            American, New Zealand and British
            mates will want a copy.
            Larry
          • Allan and Rosemary Jones
            Dear List On this note, would any generous list members be willing to send copies of any 1812 re-enactment videos to a poor, deprived Brit who is suffering
            Message 5 of 13 , Nov 4, 1999
              Dear List

              On this note, would any generous list members be willing to send copies
              of any 1812 re-enactment videos to a poor, deprived Brit who is
              suffering from 1812 deficiency? :-) NTSC is no problem as I have a dual
              purpose video, and anything I can provide in return I shall try to do.

              Allan Jones

              > Larry Lozon wrote:
              >
              > According to the Canadian History Channel
              > they will be featuring the movie
              > The War of 1812
              > on Wednesday and Thursday evening.
              > I believe this is the film that was filmed
              > at Mississinewa and Fort George as
              > well as other locations.
              > Grab a VCR tape, as I am sure our
              > American, New Zealand and British
              > mates will want a copy.
              > Larry
              >
            • Rob Taylor
              Allen: They are showing the mini-series again this Sunday. I will mail it to you if you like. Contact me directly at niagara_falls_98@yahoo.com Rob Taylor ...
              Message 6 of 13 , Nov 9, 1999
                Allen:
                They are showing the mini-series again this
                Sunday. I will mail it to you if you like. Contact me
                directly at
                niagara_falls_98@...

                Rob Taylor

                --- Allan and Rosemary Jones
                <allan@...> wrote:
                > Dear List
                >
                > On this note, would any generous list members be
                > willing to send copies
                > of any 1812 re-enactment videos to a poor, deprived
                > Brit who is
                > suffering from 1812 deficiency? :-) NTSC is no
                > problem as I have a dual
                > purpose video, and anything I can provide in return
                > I shall try to do.
                >
                > Allan Jones
                >
                > > Larry Lozon wrote:
                > >
                > > According to the Canadian History Channel
                > > they will be featuring the movie
                > > The War of 1812
                > > on Wednesday and Thursday evening.
                > > I believe this is the film that was filmed
                > > at Mississinewa and Fort George as
                > > well as other locations.
                > > Grab a VCR tape, as I am sure our
                > > American, New Zealand and British
                > > mates will want a copy.
                > > Larry
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over
                > the fate of hundreds of square miles: in North
                > America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS
                > of square miles...
                >
                <HR>
                <html>
                >


                =====
                War of 1812 Website: http://members.tripod.com/~war1812/
              • Rob Taylor
                Henry Clay was so confident of an easy victory in a strike across the border that he said, I trust I shall not be presumptuous when I state that I verily
                Message 7 of 13 , Sep 5, 2000
                  Henry Clay was so confident of an easy victory in a
                  strike across the border that he said, "I trust I
                  shall not be presumptuous when I state that I verily
                  believe that the militia of Kentucky alone are
                  competent to place Montreal and Upper Canada at your
                  feet." He estimated that it would take the American
                  troops no more than four weeks to overrun and hold the
                  important regions of British North America. Thomas
                  Jefferson stated that it would be "a mere matter of
                  marching"
                  Many people find it unpatriotic to adhere to the
                  facts. After failing to capture Canada the U.S. found
                  themselves fighting a defensive war to save their own
                  country. At one point Mr. Madison (the U.S. President)
                  was even hiding in the hills of Virginia because the
                  captial of the country "Washington" had been attacked
                  and was burning. When the war was over the only
                  American soldiers left in Canada were prisoners of
                  war, yet a great deal of America was occupied by
                  British forces, Maine, Fort Niagara, Fort Mackinac to
                  name but a few. These were returned to the United
                  States via the Treaty of Ghent, this was a credit to
                  the American negotiators. In short America did not
                  obtain any of their military goals. In the New England
                  state they even considered secession, feeling that the
                  war was unjust and fought for reasons other than
                  stated by the war hawks. Many have said that after
                  this conflict, Great Britain's interference in
                  American affairs ended, so in some way this is a
                  victory. But the truth be told it was not the war in
                  North America that won America the right of being left
                  alone, but the greater war in Europe that did. With
                  Napoleon defeated and Great Britain supreme at sea the
                  world was to see a relative peace for a hundered
                  years. And in this time of peace America was safe, and
                  grew strong. So when a country is invaded, and they
                  defend said country, they win in my book. No offense
                  intended.

                  Rob Taylor


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                • Larry Lozon
                  From: : Ed Bolla ..... Nice to see that Canadians have there own version ....... ............... Have you noticed that ..... American
                  Message 8 of 13 , Dec 6, 2002
                    From: : Ed Bolla"<Armchairadm@...>



                    " ..... Nice to see that Canadians have there own version ......."

                    ...............

                    Have you noticed that .....

                    American authors write:
                    ~ Americans won the War of 1812 at New Orleans .....

                    British/Canadian authors write:
                    ~ British won the War of 1812 at Queenston Heights ....

                    Canadian authors who live east of Lake Erie:
                    ~ never mentioned the War west of Niagara ......

                    ~ some only use one or two books as gospel ..........
                    ( Regimental records have a wealth of information)

                    ~ most, only know about the War in their back yards .........

                    ~ overweight and older re-enactors want to be elite troops ........
                    (we should all be 10th Royal Veteran Battalion!)

                    ~ most want others to do their research for them ......FREE .......

                    ~ most want to start their own unit, instead of raising a company
                    of an established group who have the research ............

                    ~ think that their Regiment won the War of 1812 ... single handed!

                    ~ think they need a Circus size tent for a weekend .......

                    ~ are afraid an Umbrella Group will not allow them to do what is
                    historically incorrect ...........

                    ~ New Osprey Books have the same photos as in the others ..........

                    ~ those who bitch about an event, haven't attended it in 5 years ......

                    ................

                    I rec'd this from a seasoned 1812 re-enactor, and I have to agree
                    with HER!!!

                    ............

                    PS: BRAVO Mr. Pickles !!!
                    BRAVO Mr. Harris !!!

                    BRAVO Mr. Bolla, love your statement:

                    "I'd rather be Historically Accurate
                    than Politically Correct"

                    It fits so beautiful with HER last statement:

                    ~ when re-constructing a fort, the restoration has to be politically
                    correct ........


                    Yours,

                    L Lozon

                    " west of the Niagara Area "
                  • Larry Lozon
                    From: : Ed Bolla ..... Nice to see that Canadians have there own version ....... ... Have you noticed that ..... American authors
                    Message 9 of 13 , Dec 6, 2002
                      From: : Ed Bolla"<Armchairadm@...>


                      " ..... Nice to see that Canadians have there own version ......."

                      --------
                      Have you noticed that .....

                      American authors write:
                      ~ Americans won the War of 1812 at New Orleans .....

                      British/Canadian authors write:
                      ~ British won the War of 1812 at Queenston Heights ....

                      Canadian authors who live east of Lake Erie:
                      ~ never mentioned the War west of Niagara ......

                      ~ some only use one or two books as gospel ..........
                      ( Regimental records have a wealth of information)

                      ~ most, only know about the War in their back yards .........

                      ~ overweight and older re-enactors want to be elite troops ........
                      (we should all be 10th Royal Veteran Battalion!)

                      ~ most want others to do their research for them ......FREE .......

                      ~ most want to start their own unit, instead of raising a company
                      of an established group who have the research ............

                      ~ think that their Regiment won the War of 1812 ... single handed!

                      ~ think they need a Circus size tent for a weekend .......

                      ~ are afraid an Umbrella Group will not allow them to do what is
                      historically incorrect ...........

                      ~ New Osprey Books have the same photos as in the others ..........

                      ~ those who bitch about an event, haven't attended it in 5 years ......

                      -----------
                      I rec'd this from a seasoned 1812 re-enactor, and I have to agree
                      with HER!!!

                      --------

                      PS: BRAVO Mr. Pickles !!!
                      BRAVO Mr. Harris !!!

                      BRAVO Mr. Bolla, love your statement:

                      "I'd rather be Historically Accurate
                      than Politically Correct"

                      It fits so beautiful with HER last statement:

                      ~ when re-constructing a fort, the restoration has to be politically correct ........


                      Yours,

                      L. Lozon

                      " west of the Niagara Area "

























                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • dancingbobd@webtv.net
                      Dear Mr Lozon, I heartly concur with the views that you forwarded re: bias and preferences of many in the re-enacting fields [ pun intended ; ) ]. Warm
                      Message 10 of 13 , Dec 6, 2002
                        Dear Mr Lozon,

                        I heartly concur with the views that you forwarded re: bias and
                        preferences of many in the re-enacting fields [ pun intended ;>) ].

                        \Warm regards,

                        Bob Dorian
                      • Cpl. Wattie <cwattie@nationalpost.com>
                        ... You mean like the one all the ossifers loaf around in? ;-)
                        Message 11 of 13 , Dec 6, 2002
                          > ~ think they need a Circus size tent for a weekend .......
                          You mean like the one all the ossifers loaf around in? ;-)
                        • alliesofheronsandottawawarparty
                          if any group need natives war party at battles we would be happy to help out the war of 1812
                          Message 12 of 13 , May 14, 2009
                            if any group need natives war party at battles we would be happy to help out the war of 1812
                          • Tom Hurlbut
                            Where are you based? Major Tom ... From: alliesofheronsandottawawarparty To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 2:47 PM Subject: War of
                            Message 13 of 13 , May 14, 2009
                              Where are you based?

                              "Major" Tom


                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: alliesofheronsandottawawarparty
                              To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Thursday, May 14, 2009 2:47 PM
                              Subject: War of 1812





                              if any group need natives war party at battles we would be happy to help out the war of 1812








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