Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: [War Of 1812] Reenactment uniform

Expand Messages
  • Ray Hobbs
    There is also a modern depiction of the uniform in British Forces in North America: 1793-1815 opposite page 33. Osprey Men at Arms series, no. 319. The
    Message 1 of 13 , Apr 8, 2008
    • 0 Attachment
      There is also a modern depiction of the uniform in "British Forces in
      North America: 1793-1815" opposite page 33. Osprey Men at Arms series,
      no. 319.
      The picture by Marrion in Chartrand's "Military Uniforms in Canada
      1665-1970". opposite page 64 is incorrect, showing yellow facings
      instead of the correct "light buff" facings.
      But beware, these are modern pictorial translations of written texts
      (warrants).
      The lace format can be found in the website of Military Heritage
      (Discriminating General).

      Also in the Osprey book is a photograph of an original belt plate (p.
      10), and a drawing of the same in "The American war: 1812-1814" page 7.
      On page 22 of that same volume is a drawing of an original button from
      the 104th.

      Hope this helps.
      Ray Hobbs
      41st Regt.


      On 8-Apr-08, at 4:03 PM, Larry Lozon wrote:

      >
      > The photo is on Page 8
      >
      > OSPREY MEN-AT-ARMS 345
      > THE UNITED STATES ARMY
      > 1812 � 1815
      > James L. Kotchan David Rickman
      > ISBN 1 84176 051 X
      >
      > --- "Mark Dickerson" wrote:
      >
      > I believe there are photographs of an original 104th uniform in one
      > of the Osprey books.
      >
      > Mark D
      >
      > From: Jack
      >
      > does anyone have any information and photos of
      > 104th regiment of foot uniforms? Thanks Jack
      >
      >
      >

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Larry Lozon
      Yes Mark there are photos of the coat in Military Illustrated and Chartrand s USA Uniform book but since they are out of print I did not mention them. Yrs L2
      Message 2 of 13 , Apr 8, 2008
      • 0 Attachment
        Yes Mark there are photos of the coat in Military
        Illustrated and Chartrand's USA Uniform book but since they
        are out of print I did not mention them.

        Yrs
        L2


        --- "Mark Dickerson" wrote:

        Thank you Larry. I knew somebody would be able to reference it.
        These are not sketches. They are photographs of the original coat.
        I have been told that Military Illustrated also did some photos and
        research into this coat.

        Mark Dickerson
      • LCpl_rm
        Actually, the coat resides in the Cape Ann Historical Association located in Gloucester, Mass. (USA). Its was on display in the home of the association and I
        Message 3 of 13 , Apr 8, 2008
        • 0 Attachment
          Actually, the coat resides in the Cape Ann Historical Association located in Gloucester, Mass. (USA). Its was on display in the home of the association and I was able to see it about 5-6 years ago.

          The articles in Military Illustrated (MI) occurred in magazines # 20-22, (Aug/Sept 89 - Dec/Jan 90) and were titled "Redcoat: The Regimental Coat of the British Infantryman, c1808-1815". The 104th coat was just one of several that the author was able to view and take detailed close-up pictures. The coats used were: 9th, 26th, 83rd, 87th, 104th and an unidentifiable LI jacket. All reside in various museums in England, Ireland, France and the US. The magazines are rare to find these days and MI only list #20 as being available.

          There was a posting of the pictures from the article several years ago on this group. But I've tried the website http://www.84th.com/military_illustrated_magazine.htm and it no longer works. And as they are copyrighted, copying of the pictures would require permission from MI. Right Jim?

          Cheers,

          Ed Seufert, Cpl
          1812 Royal Marines

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: ronaldjdale@...
          To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 5:52 PM
          Subject: [War Of 1812] 104th Uniform


          As I am sure everyone knows, a full shipment of 104th uniforms,?1100 uniforms, including 22 musicians' buff faced red coattees.? These red coattees were subsequently issued sparingly to musicians of various regular regiments?with??the Rifles receiving ?the buff musician coattees.??

          There is at least one original "out there."? In Rene Chartrand's book on American 1812 uniforms there is a photo of a young man modelling one of the red coats and the photo is creditted to the Cape Cod Historical Society.? Rene had obviously seen the coat and perhaps took the photo as he mentions that it still has 104th buttons on it.? From the photo it appears to be pristine and must be one of those that were not issued.

          Ron Dale

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • ronaldjdale@netscape.net
          Whoops, I meant Cape Ann.? That is indeed how it is referenced in Rene s book.? I am not even a barracks lawyer but I know that there would be no problem
          Message 4 of 13 , Apr 8, 2008
          • 0 Attachment
            Whoops, I meant Cape Ann.? That is indeed how it is referenced in Rene's book.? I am not even a barracks lawyer but I know that there would be no problem scanning a magazine photo for private use.? The copywrite laws? apply to a commercial use of intellectual property or to things like copying for distribution to school classes, using in publications, exhibits?etc.?? Posting on the site?may be unethical and in violation of the copywrite laws of some countries but sending it privately to a friend breaks no rules.

            Ron


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Peter Catley
            Respectfully, the IX jacket mentioned is on display in the National Army Museum in Brussels, I have some photos taken by the Regiment on a visit a few years
            Message 5 of 13 , Apr 8, 2008
            • 0 Attachment
              Respectfully, the IX jacket mentioned is on display in the National
              Army Museum in Brussels, I have some photos taken by the Regiment on a
              visit a few years ago.

              The RBNAM also has some other jackets including Sligo militia which
              were converted to Coldstream FG for the great day.

              There was an article on them published a while ago. I may be able to
              find a copy somewhere!

              If anyone would be interested please contact me off the forum and I
              will forward them to you.

              P**

              On 9 Apr 2008, at 00:56, LCpl_rm wrote:

              > Actually, the coat resides in the Cape Ann Historical Association
              > located in Gloucester, Mass. (USA). Its was on display in the home
              > of the association and I was able to see it about 5-6 years ago.
              >
              > The articles in Military Illustrated (MI) occurred in magazines #
              > 20-22, (Aug/Sept 89 - Dec/Jan 90) and were titled "Redcoat: The
              > Regimental Coat of the British Infantryman, c1808-1815". The 104th
              > coat was just one of several that the author was able to view and
              > take detailed close-up pictures. The coats used were: 9th, 26th,
              > 83rd, 87th, 104th and an unidentifiable LI jacket. All reside in
              > various museums in England, Ireland, France and the US. The
              > magazines are rare to find these days and MI only list #20 as being
              > available.
              >
              > There was a posting of the pictures from the article several years
              > ago on this group. But I've tried the website http://www.84th.com/military_illustrated_magazine.htm
              > and it no longer works. And as they are copyrighted, copying of the
              > pictures would require permission from MI. Right Jim?
              >
              > Cheers,
              >
              > Ed Seufert, Cpl
              > 1812 Royal Marines
              >
              > ----- Original Message -----
              > From: ronaldjdale@...
              > To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
              > Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 5:52 PM
              > Subject: [War Of 1812] 104th Uniform
              >
              > As I am sure everyone knows, a full shipment of 104th uniforms,?1100
              > uniforms, including 22 musicians' buff faced red coattees.? These
              > red coattees were subsequently issued sparingly to musicians of
              > various regular regiments?with??the Rifles receiving ?the buff
              > musician coattees.??
              >
              > There is at least one original "out there."? In Rene Chartrand's
              > book on American 1812 uniforms there is a photo of a young man
              > modelling one of the red coats and the photo is creditted to the
              > Cape Cod Historical Society.? Rene had obviously seen the coat and
              > perhaps took the photo as he mentions that it still has 104th
              > buttons on it.? From the photo it appears to be pristine and must be
              > one of those that were not issued.
              >
              > Ron Dale
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • jak moritz
              Thanks Ronald, Can u send a photo to: jakinvt@yahoo.com? Thanks pal, Jack ronaldjdale@netscape.net wrote: Whoops, I meant Cape Ann.? That is indeed how it
              Message 6 of 13 , Apr 9, 2008
              • 0 Attachment
                Thanks Ronald, Can u send a photo to: jakinvt@...?
                Thanks pal, Jack

                ronaldjdale@... wrote:
                Whoops, I meant Cape Ann.? That is indeed how it is referenced in Rene's book.? I am not even a barracks lawyer but I know that there would be no problem scanning a magazine photo for private use.? The copywrite laws? apply to a commercial use of intellectual property or to things like copying for distribution to school classes, using in publications, exhibits?etc.?? Posting on the site?may be unethical and in violation of the copywrite laws of some countries but sending it privately to a friend breaks no rules.

                Ron


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


                ------------------------------------

                War of 1812 Living History:
                A wide-ranging information exchange
                for all participants and supporters


                Unit Contact information for North America:
                Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                American Forces Unit Listing
                http://usforces1812.tripod.com

                WAR OF 1812 EVENTS LIST:
                http://royal.scots.tripod.com/warof1812eventslistYahoo! Groups Links





                __________________________________________________
                Do You Yahoo!?
                Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                http://mail.yahoo.com

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • jak moritz
                thanks Ray, I will look for the information at the Battle of Plattsburgh History shop. Jack Ray Hobbs wrote: There is also a modern
                Message 7 of 13 , Apr 9, 2008
                • 0 Attachment
                  thanks Ray, I will look for the information at the
                  Battle of Plattsburgh History shop.
                  Jack

                  Ray Hobbs <ray.hobbs@...> wrote:
                  There is also a modern depiction of the uniform in "British Forces in
                  North America: 1793-1815" opposite page 33. Osprey Men at Arms series,
                  no. 319.
                  The picture by Marrion in Chartrand's "Military Uniforms in Canada
                  1665-1970". opposite page 64 is incorrect, showing yellow facings
                  instead of the correct "light buff" facings.
                  But beware, these are modern pictorial translations of written texts
                  (warrants).
                  The lace format can be found in the website of Military Heritage
                  (Discriminating General).

                  Also in the Osprey book is a photograph of an original belt plate (p.
                  10), and a drawing of the same in "The American war: 1812-1814" page 7.
                  On page 22 of that same volume is a drawing of an original button from
                  the 104th.

                  Hope this helps.
                  Ray Hobbs
                  41st Regt.


                  On 8-Apr-08, at 4:03 PM, Larry Lozon wrote:

                  >
                  > The photo is on Page 8
                  >
                  > OSPREY MEN-AT-ARMS 345
                  > THE UNITED STATES ARMY
                  > 1812 – 1815
                  > James L. Kotchan David Rickman
                  > ISBN 1 84176 051 X
                  >
                  > --- "Mark Dickerson" wrote:
                  >
                  > I believe there are photographs of an original 104th uniform in one
                  > of the Osprey books.
                  >
                  > Mark D
                  >
                  > From: Jack
                  >
                  > does anyone have any information and photos of
                  > 104th regiment of foot uniforms? Thanks Jack
                  >
                  >
                  >

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


                  ------------------------------------

                  War of 1812 Living History:
                  A wide-ranging information exchange
                  for all participants and supporters


                  Unit Contact information for North America:
                  Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                  http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                  American Forces Unit Listing
                  http://usforces1812.tripod.com

                  WAR OF 1812 EVENTS LIST:
                  http://royal.scots.tripod.com/warof1812eventslistYahoo! Groups Links





                  __________________________________________________
                  Do You Yahoo!?
                  Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                  http://mail.yahoo.com

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Doug DeCroix
                  Ed is spot on with his references (and so is Ron. . . once he caught up with the reference from Rene!!-- must have been the elephant tracks on your copy Ron!)
                  Message 8 of 13 , Apr 9, 2008
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Ed is spot on with his references (and so is Ron. . . once he caught up with the reference from Rene!!-- must have been the elephant tracks on your copy Ron!)

                    The coat is still at Cape Ann... in fact I have not only seen it but got to touch and photograph it several years ago (with gloves of course!). They were in the process of upgrading their overall exhibitry, providing they got the funding. This is the only original British ranker's coat on this side of the pond as far as anyone knows....it is in impeccable shape-- better condition than most reproductions I have seen in fact.

                    As I recall, those MI articles also had a pattern included, which was drafted by Paul Fortier. It is outstanding. One or more variations on this pattern has been what many of us have been using for our coatees for years. I personally have used a pattern based on his research for nearly 20 years now. I was very gratified to see that many of my "educated guesses" turned out to be spot on when I had a chance to examine the coat myself. Sometimes you get lucky.

                    __________________________________________________
                    Do You Yahoo!?
                    Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                    http://mail.yahoo.com

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.