Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.
 

Re: [War Of 1812] Beating her again and again...

Expand Messages
  • John Ogden
    And the brothers metaphor is amazingly apt: as children my brother and I fought like the proverbial cats and dogs (which is why I still need to have a
    Message 1 of 8 , Mar 27, 2008
      And the "brothers" metaphor is amazingly apt: as children my brother and I
      fought like the proverbial cats and dogs (which is why I still need to have
      a root-canalled tooth re-bleached every five years or so), but now it's
      pretty much us against the world.

      On 3/26/08, suthren@... <suthren@...> wrote:
      >
      > John is quite right. Yet as someone has once said, the myths of what
      > happened often are of greater importance than the realities of what
      > happened. I believe it was quite important for the people of the young
      > American republic to earnestly believe that they had 'defeated' several
      > major British attempts at gaining ascendancy over them (at Plattsburgh,
      > Baltimore and New Orleans)and what this meant to self-respect as a nation.
      > The reality that the RN was bringing the US to a state of bankruptcy and
      > that national ruin loomed ahead is forgotten. Similarly, the Canadian
      > civilian population looked at the "defeats" of all (except Harrison's plunge
      > into Ontario, which retired immediately after killing Tecumseth) American
      > invasion attempts as defining moments in their own self-awareness: status as
      > an independent nation came to Canada later---being part of the British
      > Empire was not that bad a deal---but from 1814 onward, they at least knew
      > who they weren't, and believed they had won that seperate identity and right
      > to evolve as a separate people on the battlefield. That the principal share
      > of the fighting in defence of Canada was done by British troops and warrior
      > Indian allies has equally been forgotten.
      >
      > Truth be told, it is a tragedy that the war ever took place at all,
      > because we are brothers and cousins if ever nations were. And our lads fight
      > beside one another in Afghanistan as proud evidence of that. But in our 1812
      > hobby we can commemorate a common honour/honor in the sincere belief that,
      > yes, we both "won"---because ultimately, an unshakeable friendship won.
      >
      > Vic Suthren
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: John Ogden
      > To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com <WarOf1812%40yahoogroups.com>
      > Sent: Wednesday, March 26, 2008 7:19 AM
      > Subject: Re: [War Of 1812] Beating her again and again...
      >
      > All,
      > As an American whose family has been here since well before the
      > Declaration of Independence (read as "very American"), I would argue that
      > in
      > regards to the War of 1812 there were no clear-cut "winners" in the usual
      > meaning of the word. In the context of this little spat amongst the
      > English-speaking nations, "victory" and "defeat" are highly relative and
      > subjective terms.
      >
      > On 3/26/08, suthren@... <suthren%40magma.ca> <suthren@...<suthren%40magma.ca>>
      > wrote:
      > >
      > > Partial Listing
      > > Engagements Won (Or Lost) by Brown Bess in North America
      > > 1812-1815
      > >
      > > Lost
      > >
      > > New Orleans
      > > Plattsburgh
      > > Baltimore
      > > Chippawa
      > > Moraviantown (the Thames)
      > > Fort Stephenson
      > > York
      > > Fort George
      > >
      > > Won
      > >
      > > Bladensburg/Washington
      > > Detroit
      > > Queenston Heights
      > > Stoney Creek
      > > Lacolle Mill
      > > Crysler's Farm
      > > Chateauguay
      > > Beaver Dams
      > > Fort Mackinac
      > > Prairie du Chien
      > > Oswego
      > > Fort Niagara
      > >
      > > Disputed
      > >
      > > Lundy's Lane
      > > Sackets Harbor
      > >
      > > As said, a partial list only. Much honour/honor on both sides. But 'beat
      > > her again and again'? I don't think so....
      > >
      > > Vic Suthren
      > >
      > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
      > --
      > John J. Ogden
      > Hanley School of Law
      > Duquesne University
      > Class of 2011
      >
      > "Who does not see that the same authority which can establish Christianity
      > in exclusion of all other religions may establish, with the same ease, any
      > particular sect of Christians in exclusion of all other sects?" -- James
      > Madison, June 20, 1785
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
      >
      >



      --
      John J. Ogden
      Hanley School of Law
      Duquesne University
      Class of 2011

      "Who does not see that the same authority which can establish Christianity
      in exclusion of all other religions may establish, with the same ease, any
      particular sect of Christians in exclusion of all other sects?" -- James
      Madison, June 20, 1785


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.