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Re: [War Of 1812] Chamber's Repeating Gun - Was Puckle Gun

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  • peter monahan
    ... called Roman candle principle of stacked charges ?... Don t think I d want to be the poor bugger holding the gun when the barrel explodes... ... Dale I
    Message 1 of 20 , Feb 1, 2008
      --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Dale Kidd" <ucpm_gunner@...> wrote:
      >
      > Is it just me, or is there a very real danger with the so-
      called "Roman candle principle of stacked charges"?... Don't think I'd
      want to be the poor bugger holding the gun when the barrel explodes...
      >
      Dale

      I believe you have hit on one reason, most probably the main reason,
      why Puckle guns and other such arcane ordanance were, mercifully, not
      used for very long or in any great numbers: a shortage of really dumb
      shooters! :7)

      Peter
    • Colin
      Hi Ed I now recall reading that in Teddy s book. I also read it somewhere else....perhaps the same officer s report in another volume. The Brass tubes idea
      Message 2 of 20 , Feb 1, 2008
        Hi Ed
        I now recall reading that in Teddy's book. I also read it somewhere
        else....perhaps the same officer's report in another volume.

        The Brass tubes "idea" comes from the Navy Agent in Boston, Amos
        Binney's records. His original letterbook is at the AMerican
        Antiquarian Society Library in Worcester (Wista as pronounced here)
        Mass. I do not have the exact citing on hand. If I come across it in
        these stacks surrounding me or in my computer files I'll glady pass it
        on to you. If you can get in touch with him, Mark Hilliard also has
        the info as he is the person to have come across it a few years back
        and he shared it with me.

        My best sir
        Colin Murphy
        USS CON 1812 MG
        USMC- HC

        --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "dguts1813" <Armchairadm@...> wrote:
        >
        > "Colin" your description of the Chamber's system is pretty much bang
        > on. All the weapons operated on the "Roman Candle Principle" of
        > stacked charges and projectiles. I've never seen mention of the
        > "Brass Loading Tubes" before. Sounds feasible, would love to see
        more
        > info on that.
        >
        > Ny the way, the reference to the 7 barreled gun being mounted on the
        > Capstan comes from Theodore Roosevelt's Naval War of 1812. He states
        > that a weapon, mounted in that manner was reported by one of the
        > British officer's captured in USS Constitution's action with the Cyan
        > & Levant at the close of the War of 1812.
        >
        > Ed Bolla
        > Brig Niagara
        >
      • BritcomHMP@aol.com
        In a message dated 2/1/2008 6:37:16 AM Central Standard Time, petemonahan@sympatico.ca writes: I believe you have hit on one reason, most probably the main
        Message 3 of 20 , Feb 1, 2008
          In a message dated 2/1/2008 6:37:16 AM Central Standard Time,
          petemonahan@... writes:

          I believe you have hit on one reason, most probably the main reason,
          why Puckle guns and other such arcane ordanance were, mercifully, not
          used for very long or in any great numbers: a shortage of really dumb
          shooters! :7)



          --------------------------------------

          Actualy the danger was far less withe Puckle gun because it had a series of
          revolving chambers. One of the main reasons it wasn't adopted was that the
          design was far ahead of the technology of the time and it cost a fortune. I
          think I am right in saying that the one in the Tower collection which was the
          sample sibmited to the Board of Ordinence, is the only one ever made!

          Cheers

          Tim



          **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
          http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • peter monahan
          In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, BritcomHMP@... wrote: Actualy the danger was far less withe Puckle gun because it had a series of revolving chambers. One of the
          Message 4 of 20 , Feb 1, 2008
            In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, BritcomHMP@... wrote:

            Actualy the danger was far less withe Puckle gun because it had a
            series of revolving chambers. One of the main reasons it wasn't
            adopted was that the design was far ahead of the technology of the
            time and it cost a fortune...

            Cheers

            Tim


            Far be it from me to disagree with your learned self, sir. However,
            I believe most early "revolving chamber" had a disconcerting habit of
            spitting flame in all directions around imperfectly sealed chamber-to-
            barrel seals. I also know that even Mr. Colt's esteemed weapons, at
            least in the days before metal cartridge casings, occasionally "gang
            fired", with all chambers going off at once or in very quick
            succession.

            Perhaps this is the technological gap to which you refer: an
            inability to cast and machine parts to the tolerances necessary to
            ensure proper seals? In any event, it seems that, like many "super
            weapons", these experiments were indeed "ahead of their time".

            Most respectfully, sir
            Peter Monahan
          • BritcomHMP@aol.com
            In a message dated 2/1/2008 9:10:28 AM Central Standard Time, petemonahan@sympatico.ca writes: Far be it from me to disagree with your learned self, sir.
            Message 5 of 20 , Feb 1, 2008
              In a message dated 2/1/2008 9:10:28 AM Central Standard Time,
              petemonahan@... writes:

              Far be it from me to disagree with your learned self, sir. However,
              I believe most early "revolving chamber" had a disconcerting habit of
              spitting flame in all directions around imperfectly sealed chamber-to-
              barrel seals. I also know that even Mr. Colt's esteemed weapons, at
              least in the days before metal cartridge casings, occasionally "gang
              fired", with all chambers going off at once or in very quick
              succession.


              ---------------------------------------------------

              That was certainly a posibility but actualy far less with the Puckle gun as
              the brass chambers holding the charge did not just line up with the barrel,
              they screwed into it. The crank handle first unscrewed the camber then moved
              the revolving block so that the next chamber could be placed oposite the
              breach. Then the crank was turned in the oposite direction to screw the loaded
              chamber into the barel. So as long as the screw threads engaged properly there
              should be no imperfect chamber to barrel seal.

              Cheers,

              Tim



              **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
              (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025
              48)


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • peter monahan
              Clearly, I did not look at the illustration closely enough! I retire, sir, bloodied but unbowed, before your superior logic and expertise ! PM
              Message 6 of 20 , Feb 1, 2008
                Clearly, I did not look at the illustration closely enough!

                I retire, sir, bloodied but unbowed, before your superior logic and
                expertise !

                PM
              • Gordon Deans
                I believe that the real failure of the Puckle Gun could be attributed to the fact that the gunner had to load the round bullets into the round chambers and
                Message 7 of 20 , Feb 1, 2008
                  I believe that the real failure of the Puckle Gun could be attributed
                  to the fact that the gunner had to load the round bullets into the
                  round chambers and the square bullets into the square chambers and to
                  remember when to use which. Something about the lack of natural
                  intelligence.

                  Gord Deans.

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: "peter monahan" <petemonahan@...>
                  To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                  Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 7:36 AM
                  Subject: Re: [War Of 1812] Chamber's Repeating Gun - Was Puckle Gun


                  --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Dale Kidd" <ucpm_gunner@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Is it just me, or is there a very real danger with the so-
                  called "Roman candle principle of stacked charges"?... Don't think I'd
                  want to be the poor bugger holding the gun when the barrel explodes...
                  >
                  Dale

                  I believe you have hit on one reason, most probably the main reason,
                  why Puckle guns and other such arcane ordanance were, mercifully, not
                  used for very long or in any great numbers: a shortage of really dumb
                  shooters! :7)

                  Peter
                • dguts1813
                  ... Actualy the biggest problem wiht the Roman Candle principle use in the Chamber s gun seems to have been that the fireing sequence in the multiple barrels
                  Message 8 of 20 , Feb 2, 2008
                    "Dale Kidd" <ucpm_gunner@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Is it just me, or is there a very real danger with the so-called "Roman
                    > candle principle of stacked charges"? I just envision one bullet
                    > failing to fully exit the barrel due to the explosive force of the
                    > charge venting through the hole in it, then the next charge going off
                    > behind. Don't think I'd want to be the poor bugger holding the gun when
                    > the barrel explodes...
                    >
                    > ~Dale
                    >
                    Actualy the biggest problem wiht the "Roman Candle" principle use in
                    the Chamber's gun seems to have been that the fireing sequence in the
                    multiple barrels would,for want of a better term, get "out of phase"
                    and the weapon would shake itself to peices. Also, there is the
                    obvious draw back that once you pull the trigger the weapon continues
                    to fire until al the charges are expended. There was no way to fire
                    short bursts.

                    As for the multi shot muskets, the version with two locks was a
                    prototype. The production version had, as Mr. Pickles pointed out, a
                    long tube beside the barrel which comunitcated the fire from priming
                    pan to initial the initial charge. After fireing off the 11 stacked
                    rounds the musket could be used as a normal single shot weapon by
                    fliping a small lever above the pan which uncovered a standard vent
                    hole beside the priming pan.

                    Ed B.
                  • Dale Kidd
                    ... wrote: I also know that even Mr. Colt s esteemed weapons, at ... occasionally gang ... This was properly termed a chain-fire , and was indeed a
                    Message 9 of 20 , Feb 3, 2008
                      --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "peter monahan" <petemonahan@...>
                      wrote:
                      I also know that even Mr. Colt's esteemed weapons, at
                      > least in the days before metal cartridge casings,
                      occasionally "gang
                      > fired", with all chambers going off at once or in very quick
                      > succession.


                      This was properly termed a "chain-fire", and was indeed a relatively
                      common occurrence in Col. Colt's early blackpowder revolvers. The
                      proper way to avoid this was to seal the open ends of the cylinder
                      chambers with a wad and/or a layer of grease ahead of the ball.

                      There is a very humorous, and supposedly true, story of a misfire of
                      this type happening to none other than the infamous William "Billy
                      the Kid" Bonney early in his gunfighting career. Apparently, Bonney
                      got into an argument with a cowboy in a saloon, and while his
                      adversary was momentarily distracted, drew his revolver and tried to
                      shoot him in the back (as was the Kid's modus operandi). On this
                      occasion, however, instead of adding another notch to his sixgun,
                      Bonney's revolver chain-fired and blew itself apart in his hand. To
                      add further insult to injury, the would-be target of the young outlaw
                      took considerable umbrage at his intention, and proceeded to beat the
                      Kid to a bloody pulp.

                      Off topic, but interesting none the less.

                      ~Dale
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