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Re: [War Of 1812] Chamber's Repeating Gun - Was Puckle Gun

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  • Dale Kidd
    Is it just me, or is there a very real danger with the so-called Roman candle principle of stacked charges ? I just envision one bullet failing to fully exit
    Message 1 of 20 , Feb 1, 2008
      Is it just me, or is there a very real danger with the so-called "Roman
      candle principle of stacked charges"? I just envision one bullet
      failing to fully exit the barrel due to the explosive force of the
      charge venting through the hole in it, then the next charge going off
      behind. Don't think I'd want to be the poor bugger holding the gun when
      the barrel explodes...

      ~Dale
    • peter monahan
      ... called Roman candle principle of stacked charges ?... Don t think I d want to be the poor bugger holding the gun when the barrel explodes... ... Dale I
      Message 2 of 20 , Feb 1, 2008
        --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Dale Kidd" <ucpm_gunner@...> wrote:
        >
        > Is it just me, or is there a very real danger with the so-
        called "Roman candle principle of stacked charges"?... Don't think I'd
        want to be the poor bugger holding the gun when the barrel explodes...
        >
        Dale

        I believe you have hit on one reason, most probably the main reason,
        why Puckle guns and other such arcane ordanance were, mercifully, not
        used for very long or in any great numbers: a shortage of really dumb
        shooters! :7)

        Peter
      • Colin
        Hi Ed I now recall reading that in Teddy s book. I also read it somewhere else....perhaps the same officer s report in another volume. The Brass tubes idea
        Message 3 of 20 , Feb 1, 2008
          Hi Ed
          I now recall reading that in Teddy's book. I also read it somewhere
          else....perhaps the same officer's report in another volume.

          The Brass tubes "idea" comes from the Navy Agent in Boston, Amos
          Binney's records. His original letterbook is at the AMerican
          Antiquarian Society Library in Worcester (Wista as pronounced here)
          Mass. I do not have the exact citing on hand. If I come across it in
          these stacks surrounding me or in my computer files I'll glady pass it
          on to you. If you can get in touch with him, Mark Hilliard also has
          the info as he is the person to have come across it a few years back
          and he shared it with me.

          My best sir
          Colin Murphy
          USS CON 1812 MG
          USMC- HC

          --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "dguts1813" <Armchairadm@...> wrote:
          >
          > "Colin" your description of the Chamber's system is pretty much bang
          > on. All the weapons operated on the "Roman Candle Principle" of
          > stacked charges and projectiles. I've never seen mention of the
          > "Brass Loading Tubes" before. Sounds feasible, would love to see
          more
          > info on that.
          >
          > Ny the way, the reference to the 7 barreled gun being mounted on the
          > Capstan comes from Theodore Roosevelt's Naval War of 1812. He states
          > that a weapon, mounted in that manner was reported by one of the
          > British officer's captured in USS Constitution's action with the Cyan
          > & Levant at the close of the War of 1812.
          >
          > Ed Bolla
          > Brig Niagara
          >
        • BritcomHMP@aol.com
          In a message dated 2/1/2008 6:37:16 AM Central Standard Time, petemonahan@sympatico.ca writes: I believe you have hit on one reason, most probably the main
          Message 4 of 20 , Feb 1, 2008
            In a message dated 2/1/2008 6:37:16 AM Central Standard Time,
            petemonahan@... writes:

            I believe you have hit on one reason, most probably the main reason,
            why Puckle guns and other such arcane ordanance were, mercifully, not
            used for very long or in any great numbers: a shortage of really dumb
            shooters! :7)



            --------------------------------------

            Actualy the danger was far less withe Puckle gun because it had a series of
            revolving chambers. One of the main reasons it wasn't adopted was that the
            design was far ahead of the technology of the time and it cost a fortune. I
            think I am right in saying that the one in the Tower collection which was the
            sample sibmited to the Board of Ordinence, is the only one ever made!

            Cheers

            Tim



            **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape.
            http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • peter monahan
            In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, BritcomHMP@... wrote: Actualy the danger was far less withe Puckle gun because it had a series of revolving chambers. One of the
            Message 5 of 20 , Feb 1, 2008
              In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, BritcomHMP@... wrote:

              Actualy the danger was far less withe Puckle gun because it had a
              series of revolving chambers. One of the main reasons it wasn't
              adopted was that the design was far ahead of the technology of the
              time and it cost a fortune...

              Cheers

              Tim


              Far be it from me to disagree with your learned self, sir. However,
              I believe most early "revolving chamber" had a disconcerting habit of
              spitting flame in all directions around imperfectly sealed chamber-to-
              barrel seals. I also know that even Mr. Colt's esteemed weapons, at
              least in the days before metal cartridge casings, occasionally "gang
              fired", with all chambers going off at once or in very quick
              succession.

              Perhaps this is the technological gap to which you refer: an
              inability to cast and machine parts to the tolerances necessary to
              ensure proper seals? In any event, it seems that, like many "super
              weapons", these experiments were indeed "ahead of their time".

              Most respectfully, sir
              Peter Monahan
            • BritcomHMP@aol.com
              In a message dated 2/1/2008 9:10:28 AM Central Standard Time, petemonahan@sympatico.ca writes: Far be it from me to disagree with your learned self, sir.
              Message 6 of 20 , Feb 1, 2008
                In a message dated 2/1/2008 9:10:28 AM Central Standard Time,
                petemonahan@... writes:

                Far be it from me to disagree with your learned self, sir. However,
                I believe most early "revolving chamber" had a disconcerting habit of
                spitting flame in all directions around imperfectly sealed chamber-to-
                barrel seals. I also know that even Mr. Colt's esteemed weapons, at
                least in the days before metal cartridge casings, occasionally "gang
                fired", with all chambers going off at once or in very quick
                succession.


                ---------------------------------------------------

                That was certainly a posibility but actualy far less with the Puckle gun as
                the brass chambers holding the charge did not just line up with the barrel,
                they screwed into it. The crank handle first unscrewed the camber then moved
                the revolving block so that the next chamber could be placed oposite the
                breach. Then the crank was turned in the oposite direction to screw the loaded
                chamber into the barel. So as long as the screw threads engaged properly there
                should be no imperfect chamber to barrel seal.

                Cheers,

                Tim



                **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music.
                (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025
                48)


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • peter monahan
                Clearly, I did not look at the illustration closely enough! I retire, sir, bloodied but unbowed, before your superior logic and expertise ! PM
                Message 7 of 20 , Feb 1, 2008
                  Clearly, I did not look at the illustration closely enough!

                  I retire, sir, bloodied but unbowed, before your superior logic and
                  expertise !

                  PM
                • Gordon Deans
                  I believe that the real failure of the Puckle Gun could be attributed to the fact that the gunner had to load the round bullets into the round chambers and
                  Message 8 of 20 , Feb 1, 2008
                    I believe that the real failure of the Puckle Gun could be attributed
                    to the fact that the gunner had to load the round bullets into the
                    round chambers and the square bullets into the square chambers and to
                    remember when to use which. Something about the lack of natural
                    intelligence.

                    Gord Deans.

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: "peter monahan" <petemonahan@...>
                    To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Friday, February 01, 2008 7:36 AM
                    Subject: Re: [War Of 1812] Chamber's Repeating Gun - Was Puckle Gun


                    --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Dale Kidd" <ucpm_gunner@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Is it just me, or is there a very real danger with the so-
                    called "Roman candle principle of stacked charges"?... Don't think I'd
                    want to be the poor bugger holding the gun when the barrel explodes...
                    >
                    Dale

                    I believe you have hit on one reason, most probably the main reason,
                    why Puckle guns and other such arcane ordanance were, mercifully, not
                    used for very long or in any great numbers: a shortage of really dumb
                    shooters! :7)

                    Peter
                  • dguts1813
                    ... Actualy the biggest problem wiht the Roman Candle principle use in the Chamber s gun seems to have been that the fireing sequence in the multiple barrels
                    Message 9 of 20 , Feb 2, 2008
                      "Dale Kidd" <ucpm_gunner@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Is it just me, or is there a very real danger with the so-called "Roman
                      > candle principle of stacked charges"? I just envision one bullet
                      > failing to fully exit the barrel due to the explosive force of the
                      > charge venting through the hole in it, then the next charge going off
                      > behind. Don't think I'd want to be the poor bugger holding the gun when
                      > the barrel explodes...
                      >
                      > ~Dale
                      >
                      Actualy the biggest problem wiht the "Roman Candle" principle use in
                      the Chamber's gun seems to have been that the fireing sequence in the
                      multiple barrels would,for want of a better term, get "out of phase"
                      and the weapon would shake itself to peices. Also, there is the
                      obvious draw back that once you pull the trigger the weapon continues
                      to fire until al the charges are expended. There was no way to fire
                      short bursts.

                      As for the multi shot muskets, the version with two locks was a
                      prototype. The production version had, as Mr. Pickles pointed out, a
                      long tube beside the barrel which comunitcated the fire from priming
                      pan to initial the initial charge. After fireing off the 11 stacked
                      rounds the musket could be used as a normal single shot weapon by
                      fliping a small lever above the pan which uncovered a standard vent
                      hole beside the priming pan.

                      Ed B.
                    • Dale Kidd
                      ... wrote: I also know that even Mr. Colt s esteemed weapons, at ... occasionally gang ... This was properly termed a chain-fire , and was indeed a
                      Message 10 of 20 , Feb 3, 2008
                        --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "peter monahan" <petemonahan@...>
                        wrote:
                        I also know that even Mr. Colt's esteemed weapons, at
                        > least in the days before metal cartridge casings,
                        occasionally "gang
                        > fired", with all chambers going off at once or in very quick
                        > succession.


                        This was properly termed a "chain-fire", and was indeed a relatively
                        common occurrence in Col. Colt's early blackpowder revolvers. The
                        proper way to avoid this was to seal the open ends of the cylinder
                        chambers with a wad and/or a layer of grease ahead of the ball.

                        There is a very humorous, and supposedly true, story of a misfire of
                        this type happening to none other than the infamous William "Billy
                        the Kid" Bonney early in his gunfighting career. Apparently, Bonney
                        got into an argument with a cowboy in a saloon, and while his
                        adversary was momentarily distracted, drew his revolver and tried to
                        shoot him in the back (as was the Kid's modus operandi). On this
                        occasion, however, instead of adding another notch to his sixgun,
                        Bonney's revolver chain-fired and blew itself apart in his hand. To
                        add further insult to injury, the would-be target of the young outlaw
                        took considerable umbrage at his intention, and proceeded to beat the
                        Kid to a bloody pulp.

                        Off topic, but interesting none the less.

                        ~Dale
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