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Re: Some Different Perspectives on who "won" the War of 1812

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  • Rob Taylor
    Jim wrote A war that rages over an entire continent is obviously more complicated than a hockey game, or even a baseball game [ ;.)] The team , whether that
    Message 1 of 9 , Feb 20, 1999
      Jim wrote
      A war that rages over an entire continent is obviously more
      complicated than a hockey game, or even a baseball game [ ;.)] The
      "team", whether that of the U.S. or that of the
      Anglo-Canadian-Natives, hardly has the clearly-defined goals and
      expectations of a sports team; and instead of a single coach, you have
      inter-allied & inter-service rivalries to contend with, etc etc etc.

      Maybe more complicated but the goals of the U.S. were clearly defined,
      to take Canada and this would be victory much in the same way one wins
      a game. I'm surprised you did not catch my meaning.

      Jim wrote
      But even allowing for the vastly more complicated nature of a war as
      opposed to a hockey game, your analysis of what went on at the hockey
      game actually was far more informative to me than just saying "team
      "a" won, 6-2"....

      And a large part of it had nothing to do with the games final result,
      which was the point I was trying to make. I'll put in better terms
      next time.
      ==
      War of 1812 Website: http://members.tripod.com/~war1812/
    • Jim Yaworsky
      From: Rob Taylor Rob wrote but the goals of the U.S. were clearly defined, to take Canada and this would be victory much in the
      Message 2 of 9 , Feb 20, 1999
        From: Rob Taylor <niagara_falls_98@...>

        Rob wrote
        "but the goals of the U.S. were clearly defined, to take Canada and this would be victory much in the same way one wins a game. I'm surprised you did not catch my meaning."
        Jim now replies: actually, I did take your meaning, but from what I'm hearing from our U.S. friends, and from what I've read, the goals of the U.S. were a lot wider than just taking Canada, and some of those other goals were more important to them...and in their opinion, were achieved. Hence, they legitimately are of the opinion that they won!
        Jim wrote: But even allowing for the vastly more complicated nature of a war as opposed to a hockey game, your analysis of what went on at the hockey game actually was far more informative to me than just saying "team "a" won, 6-2"....
        Rob replied: And a large part of it had nothing to do with the games final result, which was the point I was trying to make. I'll put in better terms next time.
        Jim now replies: actually, again, I understood the point you were making, I guess the point I was making was that I still found the "large part of it [that] had nothing to do with the game's final result" to be very interesting & perhaps helps explain why the game turned out the way it did; from a reenactor's point of view, we're supposed to be recreating conditions in the war, 'cause we don't know how it's going to turn out yet, so it's this "other information" that is perhaps more useful to us than the "final score".
        Lest anyone think me not a loyal Canadian, from my personal perspective, I think we won the war, because the survival of the British colonies so they could evolve in to Canada was the most important result of the War - to me. But this doesn't mean that we can't attempt to understand & respect the U.S. perspective & recognize that it too is valid.
      • Rob Taylor
        ... perspective, I think we won the war, because the survival of the British colonies so they could evolve in to Canada was the most important result of the
        Message 3 of 9 , Feb 20, 1999
          Jim wrote:
          > Lest anyone think me not a loyal Canadian, from my personal
          perspective, I think we won the war, because the survival of the
          British colonies so they could evolve in to Canada was the most
          important result of the War - to me. But this doesn't mean that we
          can't attempt to understand & respect the U.S. perspective & recognize
          that it too is valid.

          Rob wrote:
          Yes Jim I will agree with that also, and I am attempting to
          understand & respect the U.S. perspective. I just as of yet have not
          understood it with the facts I have uncovered ... but I will continue
          to look.
          ------------------------------------------------------------------------
          > New hobbies? New interests? Sign up for a new ONElist community.
          > http://www.onelist.com
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          ------------------------------------------------------------------------
          > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of
          hundreds of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the
          fate of THOUSANDS of square miles...
          >

          ==
          War of 1812 Website: http://members.tripod.com/~war1812/
        • Paul W. Schulz
          ... From: IX Regt. To: WarOf1812@onelist.com Date: Saturday, February 20, 1999 3:39 AM Subject: [WarOf1812]
          Message 4 of 9 , Feb 20, 1999
            -----Original Message-----
            From: IX Regt. <ixreg@...>
            To: WarOf1812@onelist.com <WarOf1812@onelist.com>
            Date: Saturday, February 20, 1999 3:39 AM
            Subject: [WarOf1812] Re: Some Different Perspectives on who "won" the War of
            1812


            >From: "IX Regt." <ixreg@...>
            >
            >
            >>From: Jim Yaworsky <yawors1@...>
            >>
            >>May I suggest in our look at who "won" the War of 1812, that we recognize
            that
            >>great nations rarely act for simple reasons, because they have so many
            "special
            >>interest groups" and competing priorities trying to dictate their
            policies. So
            >>perhaps we should be breaking down the "who won" issue in to smaller
            pieces.
            >>
            >>I do think that this discussion, because it is bringing out all sorts of
            >>interesting facts & viewpoints, is a lot of fun. As a Canadian, I still
            put my
            >>faith in the Queen, but I also like my American neighbours & I certainly
            don't
            >>intend to get upset or insulted over anything anyone on this List might
            say
            >>about who won or lost the War of 1812 - there's been a few other
            intervening
            >>events since then, like WW's 1 & 2, that have created bonds of friendship
            &
            >>respect between us all that are rather stronger than hurt feelings from
            1812-15,
            >>I would think!
            >>
            >>Jim Yaworsky, reenactor (i.e. part-time pretend member) of: 41st British
            R.of
            >>F. infantryman,
            >
            >>( i.e. I'm doing everybody but the savages! Guess this
            >>means I personally won!!!)
            >>
            >Jim,
            >
            >Many thanks for your analysis, I enjoyed it a lot, but have to say that
            >I still don't think I'm ever going to the hang of what it was really
            >about. Just a feature of the age when it was necessary to wars
            >occasionally, maybe that's it!
            >
            >P**
            >>
            >>Don't feel to bad neither did most of those who actually fought it. Only a
            few politicians ever know all the reasons why, and that applies to any war.
            As we a reenacting simple soldiers may be we should stick with that as
            thinking like apolitician will induce headaches and lead to eventual brain
            damage.
            Paul W. Schulz
            >>
            >>------------------------------------------------------------------------
            >>Have you seen our new web site? http://www.onelist.com
            >>------------------------------------------------------------------------
            >>The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
            square
            >>miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
            square
            >>miles...
            >
            >--
            >IX Regt.
            >
            >------------------------------------------------------------------------
            >We have a new web site! http://www.onelist.com
            >------------------------------------------------------------------------
            >The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
            square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
            square miles...
          • mmathews@xxxx.xxxxxx.xxxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
            ... (snip excellent analysis) My compliments, nicely stated. Michael Michael Mathews -- ITV Specialist Winona State University Voice: (507) 285-7585 Fax:
            Message 5 of 9 , Feb 22, 1999
              >From: Jim Yaworsky <yawors1@...>

              (snip excellent analysis)

              My compliments, nicely stated.

              Michael

              Michael Mathews -- ITV Specialist
              Winona State University
              Voice: (507) 285-7585 Fax: (507) 280-5568
              ------------------------------
              "Loyalty to pertified opinion never broke a chain
              or freed a human soul" -- Mark Twain
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