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Re: 1812

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  • Paul W. Schulz
    ... From: Roger Fuller To: WarOf1812@onelist.com Date: Thursday, February 18, 1999 8:46 PM Subject:
    Message 1 of 16 , Feb 18 7:59 PM
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      -----Original Message-----
      From: Roger Fuller <fullerfamily@...>
      To: WarOf1812@onelist.com <WarOf1812@onelist.com>
      Date: Thursday, February 18, 1999 8:46 PM
      Subject: [WarOf1812] Re: 1812


      >From: "Roger Fuller" <fullerfamily@...>
      >
      >
      >-----Original Message-----
      >From: Rob Taylor <niagara_falls_98@...>
      >To: WarOf1812@onelist.com <WarOf1812@onelist.com>
      >Date: Thursday, February 18, 1999 8:38 PM
      >Subject: [WarOf1812] Re: 1812
      >
      >
      >>From: Rob Taylor <niagara_falls_98@...>
      >>
      >>Who won the War of 1812 ... You know I asked this question because I
      >>got an e:mail from a gentleman who said in graphic language that the
      >>U.S. won the War. I said in my studies of this conflict I did not find
      >>this to be true. So I decided to ask the question here... I asked why
      >>do some Americans feel that they won the War of 1812. Here is another
      >>e:mail:
      >>
      >> "It depends on what you think the goal was. If you think the goal
      >>was to get Canada, you'll think the U.S. did'nt win. If you think the
      >>goal was to eliminate the Indian threat to the western states you'll
      >>think the U.S. won."
      >>
      >> And again in my studies the British, Canadians and native people
      >>won this war. No offence intended to anyone. It is quite possible I
      >>have yet to read the books that say otherwise.
      >>
      >> Rob
      >>
      >>
      >>==
      >>War of 1812 Website: http://members.tripod.com/~war1812/
      >>
      >>
      >>No, Rob- don't feel dissuaded. You should IMHO continue asking the hard
      >questions that must be asked, or else our research and reenacting become a
      >dry academic exercise with no meaning beyond our armchairs where we would
      be
      >left sitting, to contemplate these issues silently and alone, out of fear
      of
      >offending someone.
      >
      >Who says the War of 1812 is boring, eh?
      >
      >RF
      >3/95th
      >
      >
      >Rob,
      For God sake sir don't apologize. You asked a question that is based on
      facts, but as with any truth the interpretation is high ly dependant upon
      your point of veiw. I enjoyed responding to it and I could not agree with
      Roger more than I do. Please ask....
      Paul Schulz
      4th Us Rt. of Inf
      Snelling's Co.
      >------------------------------------------------------------------------
      >New hobbies? New interests? Sign up for a new ONElist community.
      >http://www.onelist.com
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      >The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
      square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
      square miles...
    • mmathews@xxxx.xxxxxx.xxxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
      ... And who would you nominate in it s place, Tim (he asks naively)? Surely not the army of the Low Countries, Buenes Aires, Tarrifa and Bergan-Op-Zoom? ;-)
      Message 2 of 16 , Feb 22 8:26 AM
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        >From: BritcomHMP@...
        >
        >In a message dated 2/18/99 4:24:05 PM Central Standard Time,
        >bashore@... writes:
        >
        ><< For a nation ill prepared for war, we didn't
        > doo too bad against the second greatest military machine of the early
        > 19th century. >>
        >
        >And the greatest would be? Surely you can't be thinking of the 'machine' that
        >came to a grinding halt in Spain? The one that ended up being 'Blownapart' by
        >the Anglo-Prussians at Waterloo? Naaa! Couldn't be!

        And who would you nominate in it's place, Tim (he asks naively)? Surely
        not the army of the Low Countries, Buenes Aires, Tarrifa and
        Bergan-Op-Zoom? ;-)

        It seems that unless it was under the hand of the Master (as opposed to the
        Grandmaster), it was just another well-trained small army. BTW, glad you
        gave the Germans a share of credit for Waterloo!

        Your friend, teasing all the way,

        Michael
        3e Cie, 21e R�giment de Ligne

        Michael Mathews -- ITV Specialist
        Winona State University
        Voice: (507) 285-7585 Fax: (507) 280-5568
        ------------------------------
        "Loyalty to pertified opinion never broke a chain
        or freed a human soul" -- Mark Twain
      • BritcomHMP@xxx.xxx
        In a message dated 2/22/99 11:25:58 AM Central Standard Time, mmathews@VAX2.WINONA.MSUS.EDU writes:
        Message 3 of 16 , Feb 23 7:16 AM
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          In a message dated 2/22/99 11:25:58 AM Central Standard Time,
          mmathews@... writes:

          << And who would you nominate in it's place, Tim (he asks naively)? Surely
          not the army of the Low Countries, Buenes Aires, Tarrifa and
          Bergan-Op-Zoom? ;-) >>

          Of course not! The one that went to Spain originally under Moore (of blessed
          memory) and honed by 'Old Hooky' . However don't disparage Bergan-Op -Zoom as
          a junior officer of the 33rd Foot remarked at the time "At least I have
          learned what NOT to do!" To my mind that's the difference, the work a day
          soldier who took nothing for granted and covered every angle, and the genius
          who just trusted that luck would always be with him. In the end it wasn't.

          Cheers

          Tim
        • Betsy Bashore
          Who-hoo! These arrive every day, right? I d like to clarify the Barney Fife militia portrayal-- I see far too many folks who want to represent militia,
          Message 4 of 16 , Feb 24 10:18 AM
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            Who-hoo! These arrive every day, right? I'd like to clarify the Barney
            Fife militia portrayal-- I see far too many folks who want to represent
            militia, particularly American, as local yokels too stupid to pour pee
            out of a boot etc. Now I know the rare story of the Ohio militia man
            who was so afraid to fire his rifle (from home) at the muster that when
            his mother later accosted him for his poor performance, he showed her he
            could fire by blowing the 8 rounds he had loaded at the muster (and not
            fired) at once through the roof of her house. Yet, most accounts of
            Ohio and Kentucy militia attest to their diligence to their military
            duty and their tenacity on the field. I ask myself how I would feel if
            my great..... grandfather was portrayed that way.

            For Indian info from a rather good impartial perpective I recommend THE
            MIDDLE GROUND by Richard White-- this is my favorite text because it
            encompasses the 60 years of native/white warfare on the Ohio frontier.
            It provides an impartial discription of the War of 1812 but focuses
            rather heavily on British allied natives and excludes important
            information on US allied Shawnee, Delaware and Seneca. I would also
            recommend THE LETTER BOOK OF THE INDIAN AGENCY AT FORT WAYNE ed. by
            Gayle Thornbough-- details annutities and general relations with allied
            and hostile natives alike. An interesting account of the Prophet
            arriving empty handed at the agency with his band, eating them out of
            stores, then speaking at length to his followers and fellow natives - in
            plain view of the agency-- about the benefits of joining the British
            forces. You just cant please everyone.

            Another interesting account of native use of rifles is drawn from Knopfs
            Document Transcriptions and describes natives, perched in trees, firing
            ineffectually into Fort Meigs from the North side of the river. American
            riflemen fired back and, with random luck, actually plucked at least one
            native from the tree. The supposed tree described was marked by the
            City of Maumee and existed in the downtown area until the 1960's.

            And Sean-- just don't steal the ladder again, we know how to retrieve it
            now.

            Betsy
          • Dave&Monica Bosse
            I have been told that the US lost the war but one the peace of this war. That sounded pretty fair. But it took till 1823 to defind the boarder of Maine and
            Message 5 of 16 , Sep 5, 2000
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              I have been told that the US lost the war but one the peace of this war.
              That sounded pretty fair. But it took till 1823 to defind the boarder of Maine and Canada. But there is one thing we can never take from Canada.....The best strip joints in North America!

              Dave Bosse
              Americas Friend


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • lalozon
              From: Craig Williams Larry et al, Submitted for your approval... I have contacted Mr. Redmond off-list about this, as I agree with
              Message 6 of 16 , Apr 6, 2005
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                From: "Craig Williams" <sgtwarner@...>

                Larry et al,

                Submitted for your approval...

                I have contacted Mr. Redmond off-list about this, as I agree with him, in
                that the comment made by Mr. Stott was motivated by modern politics,
                (terrorism), and not on the passport issue itself. The continued references
                to the original comment were not about re-enacting but rather about the war
                on terrorism and all persons, (including myself), were choosing to talk
                terrorist war when the issue was passports.

                The three things you should never talk about in polite conversation are
                politics, religion, and white shoes!

                Craig Williams







                Mr. Williams

                Sir,

                As always I bow to your wisdom .......

                Your Humble Servant

                L. Lozon
              • johnogden@darksleep.com
                All- White shoes? Am I missing something? John Ogden
                Message 7 of 16 , Apr 6, 2005
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                  All-
                  White shoes? Am I missing something?

                  John Ogden
                  >
                  > From: "Craig Williams" <sgtwarner@...>
                  >
                  > Larry et al,
                  >
                  > Submitted for your approval...
                  >
                  > I have contacted Mr. Redmond off-list about this, as I agree with him,
                  > in
                  > that the comment made by Mr. Stott was motivated by modern politics,
                  > (terrorism), and not on the passport issue itself. The continued
                  > references
                  > to the original comment were not about re-enacting but rather about the
                  > war
                  > on terrorism and all persons, (including myself), were choosing to talk
                  > terrorist war when the issue was passports.
                  >
                  > The three things you should never talk about in polite conversation are
                  > politics, religion, and white shoes!
                  >
                  > Craig Williams
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Mr. Williams
                  >
                  > Sir,
                  >
                  > As always I bow to your wisdom .......
                  >
                  > Your Humble Servant
                  >
                  > L. Lozon
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
                  > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS
                  > of square miles...
                  >
                  > Unit Contact information for North America:
                  > ---------------------------------
                  > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                  > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                  >
                  > American Forces Unit Lisiting
                  > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                  > Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • Craig Williams
                  Either you do em or ya don t! Craig
                  Message 8 of 16 , Apr 6, 2005
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                    Either you do 'em or ya don't!

                    Craig
                    >

                    > All-
                    > White shoes? Am I missing something?
                    >
                    > John Ogden
                  • Len Heidebrecht
                    Well, actually the quote is or ladies in the mess but yes Craig one shouldn t even speak of such a terrible fashion faux pas. Why next people will be
                    Message 9 of 16 , Apr 6, 2005
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                      Well, actually the quote is or 'ladies in the mess' but yes Craig one
                      shouldn't even speak of such a terrible fashion faux pas. Why next
                      people will be mentioning sandals and socks.
                      Oooh the horror, the horror...
                      Len
                      --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, Craig Williams <sgtwarner@s...>
                      wrote:
                      > Either you do 'em or ya don't!
                      >
                      > Craig
                      > >
                      >
                      > > All-
                      > > White shoes? Am I missing something?
                      > >
                      > > John Ogden
                    • JOHN GREIG
                      ... So you have Essex girls in Canada ? Squire John The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of square miles: in North America,
                      Message 10 of 16 , Apr 6, 2005
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                        Len Heidebrecht <lheidebrecht@...> wrote:

                        > >
                        >
                        > > All-
                        > > White shoes? Am I missing something?
                        > >
                        > > John Ogden

                        So you have Essex girls in Canada ?

                        Squire John









                        The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of square miles...

                        Unit Contact information for North America:
                        ---------------------------------
                        Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                        http://1812crownforces.tripod.com

                        American Forces Unit Lisiting
                        http://usforces1812.tripod.com





                        ---------------------------------


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                      • yawors1
                        ... Plenty of em, Squire! All shapes, sizes, ages, races, creeds. ; ) Jim Yaworsky, of the City of Windsor, in the County of ESSEX (population maybe
                        Message 11 of 16 , Apr 7, 2005
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                          --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, JOHN GREIG <je.greig@b...> wrote:
                          >

                          > So you have Essex girls in Canada ?
                          >
                          > Squire John
                          >

                          Plenty of 'em, Squire! All shapes, sizes, ages, races, creeds. ;>)

                          Jim Yaworsky, of the City of Windsor, in the County of ESSEX
                          (population maybe 300,000+, about half of whom are probably female),
                          Province of Ontario, Dominion of Canada... (and this isn't the only
                          Essex County in Canada & the U.S.)
                        • Len Heidebrecht
                          Oh, the sad anoraks. Squire, he s speaking of the County of Essex here in Ontario. Sigh. Len ... creeds. ; ) ... only
                          Message 12 of 16 , Apr 7, 2005
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                            Oh, the sad anoraks.
                            Squire, he's speaking of the County of Essex here in Ontario.
                            Sigh.
                            Len
                            --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "yawors1" <yawors1@u...> wrote:
                            >
                            > --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, JOHN GREIG <je.greig@b...> wrote:
                            > >
                            >
                            > > So you have Essex girls in Canada ?
                            > >
                            > > Squire John
                            > >
                            >
                            > Plenty of 'em, Squire! All shapes, sizes, ages, races,
                            creeds. ;>)
                            >
                            > Jim Yaworsky, of the City of Windsor, in the County of ESSEX
                            > (population maybe 300,000+, about half of whom are probably female),
                            > Province of Ontario, Dominion of Canada... (and this isn't the
                            only
                            > Essex County in Canada & the U.S.)
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