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Leather Water Bucket????

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  • tedyeat
    International Military Antiques just got these in; http://www.ima-usa.com/product_info.php/products_id/1825
    Message 1 of 9 , Jul 8 8:35 PM
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      International Military Antiques just got these in;

      http://www.ima-usa.com/product_info.php/products_id/1825
    • Len Heidebrecht
      Oh dear, oh dear, Well, I think you can list this as a tell them anything, some Rube will buy it. Just because someone has stamped a Broad Arrow on the
      Message 2 of 9 , Jul 9 10:31 AM
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        Oh dear, oh dear,

        Well, I think you can list this as a "tell them anything, some Rube
        will buy it." Just because someone has stamped a Broad Arrow on the
        bottom, that doesn't make it correct.

        Leather buckets were most commonly seen in the 18th and early 19th C
        as home fire-fighting devices. I haven't often (I can't remember
        ever) having run across leather buckets or pails being listed in
        stores reports.

        The description mentions folding up the bucket for storage but I
        think someone is mixing the way the very much later (2nd American
        Civil War?) canvas bucket is stored and that of the stiff sided,
        painted and double sewn edge, fire bucket. Start folding up wet
        leather and it will soon wear out.

        There are some excellant quality leather buckets on the market but
        this is not one of them. That metal hoop and tear drop fastener is a
        dress-catcher/leg-scraper/knuckle jabber if I ever saw one. Leather
        buckets that I've observed have all been either rope or leather
        handled and reinforced.

        The best thing to do is buy a wooden bucket or pail. They're not so
        much more expensive than the cost of this item.


        Cheers,

        Len Heidebrecht

        Cooper to Trade,
        King's Regt,
        Coy of Select Marksmen


        --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "tedyeat" <tedyeat@...> wrote:
        >
        > International Military Antiques just got these in;
        >
        > http://www.ima-usa.com/product_info.php/products_id/1825
        >
      • Craig Williams
        Well.... In response....without the melodrama. As Len points out, leather water buckets were firefighting equipment. According to a book I have on firefighting
        Message 3 of 9 , Jul 9 12:08 PM
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          Well....
          In response....without the melodrama.

          As Len points out, leather water buckets were firefighting equipment.
          According to a book I have on firefighting equipment, the custom was
          that every home that had two or more chimneys was to have at least
          one of these buckets and when a general fire alarm in the community
          was sounded everyone brought out their buckets for the fire brigade
          and participated in the bucket brigade. After the fire was out, (or
          burnt out depending on the outcome), everyone was left sifting the
          pile for their bucket/s. The fire brigade had marked theirs for
          identification purposes and his is what gave rise to the practice of
          decorative painting of the bucket.
          I agree with Len, that the bucket is not likely attributable to the
          artillery, (no matter how many broad arrows you stamp on them), but
          they're fine for use as a fire-bucket.. In Pynes "British Costume"
          the image of the firefighter has two buckets lying in the background
          that appear to be of the same shape and size.

          The excellent quality buckets that Len is referring to are the
          reproduced type used by the navy (from which sooo much firefighting
          equipment was copied), and the fire brigade, and yes they are very
          expensive.

          Craig Williams


          > Oh dear, oh dear,
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > The best thing to do is buy a wooden bucket or pail. They're not so
          > much more expensive than the cost of this item.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Mark Dickerson
          I have always found tin water buckets more convenient than the wooden ones. Mark Dickerson [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          Message 4 of 9 , Jul 9 12:30 PM
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            I have always found tin water buckets more convenient than the wooden ones.

            Mark Dickerson

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Dale Kidd
            ... firefighting ... They are indeed. The Provincial Marine purchased two of these buckets from the leather shop at Black Creek Pioneer Village last year at a
            Message 5 of 9 , Jul 9 2:50 PM
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              --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, Craig Williams <sgtwarner@...> wrote:
              > The excellent quality buckets that Len is referring to are the
              > reproduced type used by the navy (from which sooo much
              firefighting
              > equipment was copied), and the fire brigade, and yes they are very
              > expensive.


              They are indeed. The Provincial Marine purchased two of these buckets
              from the leather shop at Black Creek Pioneer Village last year at a
              cost of well over $200 apiece. In addition, it is worthy of mention
              that they are also somewhat maintenance intensive. The seams need to
              be periodically resealed with beeswax... say, a couple of times a
              season. And they have to be given an application of neetsfoot oil
              before being put back into storage after each event.

              ~Dale
            • MATTHEW PINDERA
              So go wood/ tin or go home wet. M ... firefighting ... They are indeed. The Provincial Marine purchased two of these buckets from the leather shop at Black
              Message 6 of 9 , Jul 9 3:49 PM
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                So go wood/ tin or go home wet. M

                Dale Kidd <ucpm_gunner@...> wrote: --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, Craig Williams <sgtwarner@...> wrote:
                > The excellent quality buckets that Len is referring to are the
                > reproduced type used by the navy (from which sooo much
                firefighting
                > equipment was copied), and the fire brigade, and yes they are very
                > expensive.

                They are indeed. The Provincial Marine purchased two of these buckets
                from the leather shop at Black Creek Pioneer Village last year at a
                cost of well over $200 apiece. In addition, it is worthy of mention
                that they are also somewhat maintenance intensive. The seams need to
                be periodically resealed with beeswax... say, a couple of times a
                season. And they have to be given an application of neetsfoot oil
                before being put back into storage after each event.

                ~Dale






                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Dale Kidd
                I seem to recall this subject having come up once before sometime in the past... Did we not conclude at an earlier date that tin buckets are not, in fact,
                Message 7 of 9 , Jul 9 5:29 PM
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                  I seem to recall this subject having come up once before sometime in
                  the past... Did we not conclude at an earlier date that tin buckets
                  are not, in fact, appropriate to period military use?

                  ~Dale

                  --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, MATTHEW PINDERA <mspindera@...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > So go wood/ tin or go home wet. M
                • Len Heidebrecht
                  Hello All, Craig, what dahdahdahdah, melodrama? I was just trying to point out that the item mentioned (which was also queried on the RevList) is another on a
                  Message 8 of 9 , Jul 10 7:46 AM
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                    Hello All,

                    Craig, what dahdahdahdah, melodrama? I was just trying to point out
                    that the item mentioned (which was also queried on the RevList) is
                    another on a long list of 'theycouldahadits.' I won't say they are
                    misleading their customers, but are perhaps misinformed and under-
                    researched. Leather is not correct for an artillery bucket and this
                    isn't even a good repro of a fire bucket.

                    Mark, thin iron sheet tin coated buckets and pails did indeed exist
                    and were used during the Rev and Napoleonic Wars. Pyne also shows a
                    milk-maid with two beautiful straight sided brass lipped pails. I'm
                    suprised that no-one reproduces these items. The wooden pail or
                    bucket was much more common, cheaper, sturdier and is mentioned in
                    Adye's Pocket Gunner and Smith's Universal Military Dictionary. Now
                    don't get me started on stainless steel or aluminum.

                    Tin camp kettles (sometimes excavated and reported as buckets) with
                    linen covers were also used extensively during the Rev War but fell
                    out of favour afterwards and were brought back in our time because of
                    their weight on campaign. Iron kettles last longer in a garrison but
                    are a bugger to carry. We have discussed in the past, references to
                    the heavy iron kettles of the Flanders and Peninsula campaigns.

                    Mark, could you send me the link off line for the recovered tin-ware?
                    I'm not doubting you, I'd just like it for my personal reference.

                    Cheers,

                    Len

                    --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, Craig Williams <sgtwarner@...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    > Well....
                    > In response....without the melodrama.
                    >
                    > As Len points out, leather water buckets were firefighting
                    equipment.
                    > According to a book I have on firefighting equipment, the custom
                    was
                    > that every home that had two or more chimneys was to have at least
                    > one of these buckets and when a general fire alarm in the
                    community
                    > was sounded everyone brought out their buckets for the fire
                    brigade
                    > and participated in the bucket brigade. After the fire was out,
                    (or
                    > burnt out depending on the outcome), everyone was left sifting the
                    > pile for their bucket/s. The fire brigade had marked theirs for
                    > identification purposes and his is what gave rise to the practice
                    of
                    > decorative painting of the bucket.
                    > I agree with Len, that the bucket is not likely attributable to
                    the
                    > artillery, (no matter how many broad arrows you stamp on them),
                    but
                    > they're fine for use as a fire-bucket.. In Pynes "British Costume"
                    > the image of the firefighter has two buckets lying in the
                    background
                    > that appear to be of the same shape and size.
                    >
                    > The excellent quality buckets that Len is referring to are the
                    > reproduced type used by the navy (from which sooo much
                    firefighting
                    > equipment was copied), and the fire brigade, and yes they are very
                    > expensive.
                    >
                    > Craig Williams
                    >
                    >
                    > > Oh dear, oh dear,
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > > The best thing to do is buy a wooden bucket or pail. They're not
                    so
                    > > much more expensive than the cost of this item.
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                  • Mark Dickerson
                    No problem. But I am not sure that I have your email address. Mine is mdickerson1(at)cogeco.ca Mark ... From: Len Heidebrecht To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                    Message 9 of 9 , Jul 10 7:54 AM
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                      No problem. But I am not sure that I have your email address. Mine is
                      mdickerson1(at)cogeco.ca

                      Mark

                      ----- Original Message -----
                      From: Len Heidebrecht
                      To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Tuesday, July 10, 2007 10:46 AM
                      Subject: [War Of 1812] Re: Leather Water Bucket????


                      Hello All,

                      Craig, what dahdahdahdah, melodrama? I was just trying to point out
                      that the item mentioned (which was also queried on the RevList) is
                      another on a long list of 'theycouldahadits.' I won't say they are
                      misleading their customers, but are perhaps misinformed and under-
                      researched. Leather is not correct for an artillery bucket and this
                      isn't even a good repro of a fire bucket.

                      Mark, thin iron sheet tin coated buckets and pails did indeed exist
                      and were used during the Rev and Napoleonic Wars. Pyne also shows a
                      milk-maid with two beautiful straight sided brass lipped pails. I'm
                      suprised that no-one reproduces these items. The wooden pail or
                      bucket was much more common, cheaper, sturdier and is mentioned in
                      Adye's Pocket Gunner and Smith's Universal Military Dictionary. Now
                      don't get me started on stainless steel or aluminum.

                      Tin camp kettles (sometimes excavated and reported as buckets) with
                      linen covers were also used extensively during the Rev War but fell
                      out of favour afterwards and were brought back in our time because of
                      their weight on campaign. Iron kettles last longer in a garrison but
                      are a bugger to carry. We have discussed in the past, references to
                      the heavy iron kettles of the Flanders and Peninsula campaigns.

                      Mark, could you send me the link off line for the recovered tin-ware?
                      I'm not doubting you, I'd just like it for my personal reference.

                      Cheers,

                      Len

                      --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, Craig Williams <sgtwarner@...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > Well....
                      > In response....without the melodrama.
                      >
                      > As Len points out, leather water buckets were firefighting
                      equipment.
                      > According to a book I have on firefighting equipment, the custom
                      was
                      > that every home that had two or more chimneys was to have at least
                      > one of these buckets and when a general fire alarm in the
                      community
                      > was sounded everyone brought out their buckets for the fire
                      brigade
                      > and participated in the bucket brigade. After the fire was out,
                      (or
                      > burnt out depending on the outcome), everyone was left sifting the
                      > pile for their bucket/s. The fire brigade had marked theirs for
                      > identification purposes and his is what gave rise to the practice
                      of
                      > decorative painting of the bucket.
                      > I agree with Len, that the bucket is not likely attributable to
                      the
                      > artillery, (no matter how many broad arrows you stamp on them),
                      but
                      > they're fine for use as a fire-bucket.. In Pynes "British Costume"
                      > the image of the firefighter has two buckets lying in the
                      background
                      > that appear to be of the same shape and size.
                      >
                      > The excellent quality buckets that Len is referring to are the
                      > reproduced type used by the navy (from which sooo much
                      firefighting
                      > equipment was copied), and the fire brigade, and yes they are very
                      > expensive.
                      >
                      > Craig Williams
                      >
                      >
                      > > Oh dear, oh dear,
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > > The best thing to do is buy a wooden bucket or pail. They're not
                      so
                      > > much more expensive than the cost of this item.
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      > >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >





                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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