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Re: 1812

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  • Roger Fuller
    ... From: Rob Taylor To: WarOf1812@onelist.com Date: Thursday, February 18, 1999 8:38 PM Subject:
    Message 1 of 16 , Feb 18, 1999
      -----Original Message-----
      From: Rob Taylor <niagara_falls_98@...>
      To: WarOf1812@onelist.com <WarOf1812@onelist.com>
      Date: Thursday, February 18, 1999 8:38 PM
      Subject: [WarOf1812] Re: 1812


      >From: Rob Taylor <niagara_falls_98@...>
      >
      >Who won the War of 1812 ... You know I asked this question because I
      >got an e:mail from a gentleman who said in graphic language that the
      >U.S. won the War. I said in my studies of this conflict I did not find
      >this to be true. So I decided to ask the question here... I asked why
      >do some Americans feel that they won the War of 1812. Here is another
      >e:mail:
      >
      > "It depends on what you think the goal was. If you think the goal
      >was to get Canada, you'll think the U.S. did'nt win. If you think the
      >goal was to eliminate the Indian threat to the western states you'll
      >think the U.S. won."
      >
      > And again in my studies the British, Canadians and native people
      >won this war. No offence intended to anyone. It is quite possible I
      >have yet to read the books that say otherwise.
      >
      > Rob
      >
      >
      >==
      >War of 1812 Website: http://members.tripod.com/~war1812/
      >
      >
      >No, Rob- don't feel dissuaded. You should IMHO continue asking the hard
      questions that must be asked, or else our research and reenacting become a
      dry academic exercise with no meaning beyond our armchairs where we would be
      left sitting, to contemplate these issues silently and alone, out of fear of
      offending someone.

      Who says the War of 1812 is boring, eh?

      RF
      3/95th
    • Paul W. Schulz
      ... From: Roger Fuller To: WarOf1812@onelist.com Date: Thursday, February 18, 1999 8:46 PM Subject:
      Message 2 of 16 , Feb 18, 1999
        -----Original Message-----
        From: Roger Fuller <fullerfamily@...>
        To: WarOf1812@onelist.com <WarOf1812@onelist.com>
        Date: Thursday, February 18, 1999 8:46 PM
        Subject: [WarOf1812] Re: 1812


        >From: "Roger Fuller" <fullerfamily@...>
        >
        >
        >-----Original Message-----
        >From: Rob Taylor <niagara_falls_98@...>
        >To: WarOf1812@onelist.com <WarOf1812@onelist.com>
        >Date: Thursday, February 18, 1999 8:38 PM
        >Subject: [WarOf1812] Re: 1812
        >
        >
        >>From: Rob Taylor <niagara_falls_98@...>
        >>
        >>Who won the War of 1812 ... You know I asked this question because I
        >>got an e:mail from a gentleman who said in graphic language that the
        >>U.S. won the War. I said in my studies of this conflict I did not find
        >>this to be true. So I decided to ask the question here... I asked why
        >>do some Americans feel that they won the War of 1812. Here is another
        >>e:mail:
        >>
        >> "It depends on what you think the goal was. If you think the goal
        >>was to get Canada, you'll think the U.S. did'nt win. If you think the
        >>goal was to eliminate the Indian threat to the western states you'll
        >>think the U.S. won."
        >>
        >> And again in my studies the British, Canadians and native people
        >>won this war. No offence intended to anyone. It is quite possible I
        >>have yet to read the books that say otherwise.
        >>
        >> Rob
        >>
        >>
        >>==
        >>War of 1812 Website: http://members.tripod.com/~war1812/
        >>
        >>
        >>No, Rob- don't feel dissuaded. You should IMHO continue asking the hard
        >questions that must be asked, or else our research and reenacting become a
        >dry academic exercise with no meaning beyond our armchairs where we would
        be
        >left sitting, to contemplate these issues silently and alone, out of fear
        of
        >offending someone.
        >
        >Who says the War of 1812 is boring, eh?
        >
        >RF
        >3/95th
        >
        >
        >Rob,
        For God sake sir don't apologize. You asked a question that is based on
        facts, but as with any truth the interpretation is high ly dependant upon
        your point of veiw. I enjoyed responding to it and I could not agree with
        Roger more than I do. Please ask....
        Paul Schulz
        4th Us Rt. of Inf
        Snelling's Co.
        >------------------------------------------------------------------------
        >New hobbies? New interests? Sign up for a new ONElist community.
        >http://www.onelist.com
        >------------------------------------------------------------------------
        >The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
        square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
        square miles...
      • mmathews@xxxx.xxxxxx.xxxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
        ... And who would you nominate in it s place, Tim (he asks naively)? Surely not the army of the Low Countries, Buenes Aires, Tarrifa and Bergan-Op-Zoom? ;-)
        Message 3 of 16 , Feb 22, 1999
          >From: BritcomHMP@...
          >
          >In a message dated 2/18/99 4:24:05 PM Central Standard Time,
          >bashore@... writes:
          >
          ><< For a nation ill prepared for war, we didn't
          > doo too bad against the second greatest military machine of the early
          > 19th century. >>
          >
          >And the greatest would be? Surely you can't be thinking of the 'machine' that
          >came to a grinding halt in Spain? The one that ended up being 'Blownapart' by
          >the Anglo-Prussians at Waterloo? Naaa! Couldn't be!

          And who would you nominate in it's place, Tim (he asks naively)? Surely
          not the army of the Low Countries, Buenes Aires, Tarrifa and
          Bergan-Op-Zoom? ;-)

          It seems that unless it was under the hand of the Master (as opposed to the
          Grandmaster), it was just another well-trained small army. BTW, glad you
          gave the Germans a share of credit for Waterloo!

          Your friend, teasing all the way,

          Michael
          3e Cie, 21e R�giment de Ligne

          Michael Mathews -- ITV Specialist
          Winona State University
          Voice: (507) 285-7585 Fax: (507) 280-5568
          ------------------------------
          "Loyalty to pertified opinion never broke a chain
          or freed a human soul" -- Mark Twain
        • BritcomHMP@xxx.xxx
          In a message dated 2/22/99 11:25:58 AM Central Standard Time, mmathews@VAX2.WINONA.MSUS.EDU writes:
          Message 4 of 16 , Feb 23, 1999
            In a message dated 2/22/99 11:25:58 AM Central Standard Time,
            mmathews@... writes:

            << And who would you nominate in it's place, Tim (he asks naively)? Surely
            not the army of the Low Countries, Buenes Aires, Tarrifa and
            Bergan-Op-Zoom? ;-) >>

            Of course not! The one that went to Spain originally under Moore (of blessed
            memory) and honed by 'Old Hooky' . However don't disparage Bergan-Op -Zoom as
            a junior officer of the 33rd Foot remarked at the time "At least I have
            learned what NOT to do!" To my mind that's the difference, the work a day
            soldier who took nothing for granted and covered every angle, and the genius
            who just trusted that luck would always be with him. In the end it wasn't.

            Cheers

            Tim
          • Betsy Bashore
            Who-hoo! These arrive every day, right? I d like to clarify the Barney Fife militia portrayal-- I see far too many folks who want to represent militia,
            Message 5 of 16 , Feb 24, 1999
              Who-hoo! These arrive every day, right? I'd like to clarify the Barney
              Fife militia portrayal-- I see far too many folks who want to represent
              militia, particularly American, as local yokels too stupid to pour pee
              out of a boot etc. Now I know the rare story of the Ohio militia man
              who was so afraid to fire his rifle (from home) at the muster that when
              his mother later accosted him for his poor performance, he showed her he
              could fire by blowing the 8 rounds he had loaded at the muster (and not
              fired) at once through the roof of her house. Yet, most accounts of
              Ohio and Kentucy militia attest to their diligence to their military
              duty and their tenacity on the field. I ask myself how I would feel if
              my great..... grandfather was portrayed that way.

              For Indian info from a rather good impartial perpective I recommend THE
              MIDDLE GROUND by Richard White-- this is my favorite text because it
              encompasses the 60 years of native/white warfare on the Ohio frontier.
              It provides an impartial discription of the War of 1812 but focuses
              rather heavily on British allied natives and excludes important
              information on US allied Shawnee, Delaware and Seneca. I would also
              recommend THE LETTER BOOK OF THE INDIAN AGENCY AT FORT WAYNE ed. by
              Gayle Thornbough-- details annutities and general relations with allied
              and hostile natives alike. An interesting account of the Prophet
              arriving empty handed at the agency with his band, eating them out of
              stores, then speaking at length to his followers and fellow natives - in
              plain view of the agency-- about the benefits of joining the British
              forces. You just cant please everyone.

              Another interesting account of native use of rifles is drawn from Knopfs
              Document Transcriptions and describes natives, perched in trees, firing
              ineffectually into Fort Meigs from the North side of the river. American
              riflemen fired back and, with random luck, actually plucked at least one
              native from the tree. The supposed tree described was marked by the
              City of Maumee and existed in the downtown area until the 1960's.

              And Sean-- just don't steal the ladder again, we know how to retrieve it
              now.

              Betsy
            • Dave&Monica Bosse
              I have been told that the US lost the war but one the peace of this war. That sounded pretty fair. But it took till 1823 to defind the boarder of Maine and
              Message 6 of 16 , Sep 5, 2000
                I have been told that the US lost the war but one the peace of this war.
                That sounded pretty fair. But it took till 1823 to defind the boarder of Maine and Canada. But there is one thing we can never take from Canada.....The best strip joints in North America!

                Dave Bosse
                Americas Friend


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • lalozon
                From: Craig Williams Larry et al, Submitted for your approval... I have contacted Mr. Redmond off-list about this, as I agree with
                Message 7 of 16 , Apr 6, 2005
                  From: "Craig Williams" <sgtwarner@...>

                  Larry et al,

                  Submitted for your approval...

                  I have contacted Mr. Redmond off-list about this, as I agree with him, in
                  that the comment made by Mr. Stott was motivated by modern politics,
                  (terrorism), and not on the passport issue itself. The continued references
                  to the original comment were not about re-enacting but rather about the war
                  on terrorism and all persons, (including myself), were choosing to talk
                  terrorist war when the issue was passports.

                  The three things you should never talk about in polite conversation are
                  politics, religion, and white shoes!

                  Craig Williams







                  Mr. Williams

                  Sir,

                  As always I bow to your wisdom .......

                  Your Humble Servant

                  L. Lozon
                • johnogden@darksleep.com
                  All- White shoes? Am I missing something? John Ogden
                  Message 8 of 16 , Apr 6, 2005
                    All-
                    White shoes? Am I missing something?

                    John Ogden
                    >
                    > From: "Craig Williams" <sgtwarner@...>
                    >
                    > Larry et al,
                    >
                    > Submitted for your approval...
                    >
                    > I have contacted Mr. Redmond off-list about this, as I agree with him,
                    > in
                    > that the comment made by Mr. Stott was motivated by modern politics,
                    > (terrorism), and not on the passport issue itself. The continued
                    > references
                    > to the original comment were not about re-enacting but rather about the
                    > war
                    > on terrorism and all persons, (including myself), were choosing to talk
                    > terrorist war when the issue was passports.
                    >
                    > The three things you should never talk about in polite conversation are
                    > politics, religion, and white shoes!
                    >
                    > Craig Williams
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > Mr. Williams
                    >
                    > Sir,
                    >
                    > As always I bow to your wisdom .......
                    >
                    > Your Humble Servant
                    >
                    > L. Lozon
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
                    > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS
                    > of square miles...
                    >
                    > Unit Contact information for North America:
                    > ---------------------------------
                    > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                    > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                    >
                    > American Forces Unit Lisiting
                    > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                    > Yahoo! Groups Links
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    >
                  • Craig Williams
                    Either you do em or ya don t! Craig
                    Message 9 of 16 , Apr 6, 2005
                      Either you do 'em or ya don't!

                      Craig
                      >

                      > All-
                      > White shoes? Am I missing something?
                      >
                      > John Ogden
                    • Len Heidebrecht
                      Well, actually the quote is or ladies in the mess but yes Craig one shouldn t even speak of such a terrible fashion faux pas. Why next people will be
                      Message 10 of 16 , Apr 6, 2005
                        Well, actually the quote is or 'ladies in the mess' but yes Craig one
                        shouldn't even speak of such a terrible fashion faux pas. Why next
                        people will be mentioning sandals and socks.
                        Oooh the horror, the horror...
                        Len
                        --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, Craig Williams <sgtwarner@s...>
                        wrote:
                        > Either you do 'em or ya don't!
                        >
                        > Craig
                        > >
                        >
                        > > All-
                        > > White shoes? Am I missing something?
                        > >
                        > > John Ogden
                      • JOHN GREIG
                        ... So you have Essex girls in Canada ? Squire John The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of square miles: in North America,
                        Message 11 of 16 , Apr 6, 2005
                          Len Heidebrecht <lheidebrecht@...> wrote:

                          > >
                          >
                          > > All-
                          > > White shoes? Am I missing something?
                          > >
                          > > John Ogden

                          So you have Essex girls in Canada ?

                          Squire John









                          The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of square miles...

                          Unit Contact information for North America:
                          ---------------------------------
                          Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                          http://1812crownforces.tripod.com

                          American Forces Unit Lisiting
                          http://usforces1812.tripod.com





                          ---------------------------------


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                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • yawors1
                          ... Plenty of em, Squire! All shapes, sizes, ages, races, creeds. ; ) Jim Yaworsky, of the City of Windsor, in the County of ESSEX (population maybe
                          Message 12 of 16 , Apr 7, 2005
                            --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, JOHN GREIG <je.greig@b...> wrote:
                            >

                            > So you have Essex girls in Canada ?
                            >
                            > Squire John
                            >

                            Plenty of 'em, Squire! All shapes, sizes, ages, races, creeds. ;>)

                            Jim Yaworsky, of the City of Windsor, in the County of ESSEX
                            (population maybe 300,000+, about half of whom are probably female),
                            Province of Ontario, Dominion of Canada... (and this isn't the only
                            Essex County in Canada & the U.S.)
                          • Len Heidebrecht
                            Oh, the sad anoraks. Squire, he s speaking of the County of Essex here in Ontario. Sigh. Len ... creeds. ; ) ... only
                            Message 13 of 16 , Apr 7, 2005
                              Oh, the sad anoraks.
                              Squire, he's speaking of the County of Essex here in Ontario.
                              Sigh.
                              Len
                              --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "yawors1" <yawors1@u...> wrote:
                              >
                              > --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, JOHN GREIG <je.greig@b...> wrote:
                              > >
                              >
                              > > So you have Essex girls in Canada ?
                              > >
                              > > Squire John
                              > >
                              >
                              > Plenty of 'em, Squire! All shapes, sizes, ages, races,
                              creeds. ;>)
                              >
                              > Jim Yaworsky, of the City of Windsor, in the County of ESSEX
                              > (population maybe 300,000+, about half of whom are probably female),
                              > Province of Ontario, Dominion of Canada... (and this isn't the
                              only
                              > Essex County in Canada & the U.S.)
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