Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

Re: 1812

Expand Messages
  • Rob Taylor
    Who won the War of 1812 ... You know I asked this question because I got an e:mail from a gentleman who said in graphic language that the U.S. won the War. I
    Message 1 of 16 , Feb 18, 1999
    • 0 Attachment
      Who won the War of 1812 ... You know I asked this question because I
      got an e:mail from a gentleman who said in graphic language that the
      U.S. won the War. I said in my studies of this conflict I did not find
      this to be true. So I decided to ask the question here... I asked why
      do some Americans feel that they won the War of 1812. Here is another
      e:mail:

      "It depends on what you think the goal was. If you think the goal
      was to get Canada, you'll think the U.S. did'nt win. If you think the
      goal was to eliminate the Indian threat to the western states you'll
      think the U.S. won."

      And again in my studies the British, Canadians and native people
      won this war. No offence intended to anyone. It is quite possible I
      have yet to read the books that say otherwise.

      Rob


      ==
      War of 1812 Website: http://members.tripod.com/~war1812/
    • Roger Fuller
      ... From: Rob Taylor To: WarOf1812@onelist.com Date: Thursday, February 18, 1999 8:38 PM Subject:
      Message 2 of 16 , Feb 18, 1999
      • 0 Attachment
        -----Original Message-----
        From: Rob Taylor <niagara_falls_98@...>
        To: WarOf1812@onelist.com <WarOf1812@onelist.com>
        Date: Thursday, February 18, 1999 8:38 PM
        Subject: [WarOf1812] Re: 1812


        >From: Rob Taylor <niagara_falls_98@...>
        >
        >Who won the War of 1812 ... You know I asked this question because I
        >got an e:mail from a gentleman who said in graphic language that the
        >U.S. won the War. I said in my studies of this conflict I did not find
        >this to be true. So I decided to ask the question here... I asked why
        >do some Americans feel that they won the War of 1812. Here is another
        >e:mail:
        >
        > "It depends on what you think the goal was. If you think the goal
        >was to get Canada, you'll think the U.S. did'nt win. If you think the
        >goal was to eliminate the Indian threat to the western states you'll
        >think the U.S. won."
        >
        > And again in my studies the British, Canadians and native people
        >won this war. No offence intended to anyone. It is quite possible I
        >have yet to read the books that say otherwise.
        >
        > Rob
        >
        >
        >==
        >War of 1812 Website: http://members.tripod.com/~war1812/
        >
        >
        >No, Rob- don't feel dissuaded. You should IMHO continue asking the hard
        questions that must be asked, or else our research and reenacting become a
        dry academic exercise with no meaning beyond our armchairs where we would be
        left sitting, to contemplate these issues silently and alone, out of fear of
        offending someone.

        Who says the War of 1812 is boring, eh?

        RF
        3/95th
      • Paul W. Schulz
        ... From: Roger Fuller To: WarOf1812@onelist.com Date: Thursday, February 18, 1999 8:46 PM Subject:
        Message 3 of 16 , Feb 18, 1999
        • 0 Attachment
          -----Original Message-----
          From: Roger Fuller <fullerfamily@...>
          To: WarOf1812@onelist.com <WarOf1812@onelist.com>
          Date: Thursday, February 18, 1999 8:46 PM
          Subject: [WarOf1812] Re: 1812


          >From: "Roger Fuller" <fullerfamily@...>
          >
          >
          >-----Original Message-----
          >From: Rob Taylor <niagara_falls_98@...>
          >To: WarOf1812@onelist.com <WarOf1812@onelist.com>
          >Date: Thursday, February 18, 1999 8:38 PM
          >Subject: [WarOf1812] Re: 1812
          >
          >
          >>From: Rob Taylor <niagara_falls_98@...>
          >>
          >>Who won the War of 1812 ... You know I asked this question because I
          >>got an e:mail from a gentleman who said in graphic language that the
          >>U.S. won the War. I said in my studies of this conflict I did not find
          >>this to be true. So I decided to ask the question here... I asked why
          >>do some Americans feel that they won the War of 1812. Here is another
          >>e:mail:
          >>
          >> "It depends on what you think the goal was. If you think the goal
          >>was to get Canada, you'll think the U.S. did'nt win. If you think the
          >>goal was to eliminate the Indian threat to the western states you'll
          >>think the U.S. won."
          >>
          >> And again in my studies the British, Canadians and native people
          >>won this war. No offence intended to anyone. It is quite possible I
          >>have yet to read the books that say otherwise.
          >>
          >> Rob
          >>
          >>
          >>==
          >>War of 1812 Website: http://members.tripod.com/~war1812/
          >>
          >>
          >>No, Rob- don't feel dissuaded. You should IMHO continue asking the hard
          >questions that must be asked, or else our research and reenacting become a
          >dry academic exercise with no meaning beyond our armchairs where we would
          be
          >left sitting, to contemplate these issues silently and alone, out of fear
          of
          >offending someone.
          >
          >Who says the War of 1812 is boring, eh?
          >
          >RF
          >3/95th
          >
          >
          >Rob,
          For God sake sir don't apologize. You asked a question that is based on
          facts, but as with any truth the interpretation is high ly dependant upon
          your point of veiw. I enjoyed responding to it and I could not agree with
          Roger more than I do. Please ask....
          Paul Schulz
          4th Us Rt. of Inf
          Snelling's Co.
          >------------------------------------------------------------------------
          >New hobbies? New interests? Sign up for a new ONElist community.
          >http://www.onelist.com
          >------------------------------------------------------------------------
          >The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
          square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of
          square miles...
        • mmathews@xxxx.xxxxxx.xxxx.xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
          ... And who would you nominate in it s place, Tim (he asks naively)? Surely not the army of the Low Countries, Buenes Aires, Tarrifa and Bergan-Op-Zoom? ;-)
          Message 4 of 16 , Feb 22, 1999
          • 0 Attachment
            >From: BritcomHMP@...
            >
            >In a message dated 2/18/99 4:24:05 PM Central Standard Time,
            >bashore@... writes:
            >
            ><< For a nation ill prepared for war, we didn't
            > doo too bad against the second greatest military machine of the early
            > 19th century. >>
            >
            >And the greatest would be? Surely you can't be thinking of the 'machine' that
            >came to a grinding halt in Spain? The one that ended up being 'Blownapart' by
            >the Anglo-Prussians at Waterloo? Naaa! Couldn't be!

            And who would you nominate in it's place, Tim (he asks naively)? Surely
            not the army of the Low Countries, Buenes Aires, Tarrifa and
            Bergan-Op-Zoom? ;-)

            It seems that unless it was under the hand of the Master (as opposed to the
            Grandmaster), it was just another well-trained small army. BTW, glad you
            gave the Germans a share of credit for Waterloo!

            Your friend, teasing all the way,

            Michael
            3e Cie, 21e R�giment de Ligne

            Michael Mathews -- ITV Specialist
            Winona State University
            Voice: (507) 285-7585 Fax: (507) 280-5568
            ------------------------------
            "Loyalty to pertified opinion never broke a chain
            or freed a human soul" -- Mark Twain
          • BritcomHMP@xxx.xxx
            In a message dated 2/22/99 11:25:58 AM Central Standard Time, mmathews@VAX2.WINONA.MSUS.EDU writes:
            Message 5 of 16 , Feb 23, 1999
            • 0 Attachment
              In a message dated 2/22/99 11:25:58 AM Central Standard Time,
              mmathews@... writes:

              << And who would you nominate in it's place, Tim (he asks naively)? Surely
              not the army of the Low Countries, Buenes Aires, Tarrifa and
              Bergan-Op-Zoom? ;-) >>

              Of course not! The one that went to Spain originally under Moore (of blessed
              memory) and honed by 'Old Hooky' . However don't disparage Bergan-Op -Zoom as
              a junior officer of the 33rd Foot remarked at the time "At least I have
              learned what NOT to do!" To my mind that's the difference, the work a day
              soldier who took nothing for granted and covered every angle, and the genius
              who just trusted that luck would always be with him. In the end it wasn't.

              Cheers

              Tim
            • Betsy Bashore
              Who-hoo! These arrive every day, right? I d like to clarify the Barney Fife militia portrayal-- I see far too many folks who want to represent militia,
              Message 6 of 16 , Feb 24, 1999
              • 0 Attachment
                Who-hoo! These arrive every day, right? I'd like to clarify the Barney
                Fife militia portrayal-- I see far too many folks who want to represent
                militia, particularly American, as local yokels too stupid to pour pee
                out of a boot etc. Now I know the rare story of the Ohio militia man
                who was so afraid to fire his rifle (from home) at the muster that when
                his mother later accosted him for his poor performance, he showed her he
                could fire by blowing the 8 rounds he had loaded at the muster (and not
                fired) at once through the roof of her house. Yet, most accounts of
                Ohio and Kentucy militia attest to their diligence to their military
                duty and their tenacity on the field. I ask myself how I would feel if
                my great..... grandfather was portrayed that way.

                For Indian info from a rather good impartial perpective I recommend THE
                MIDDLE GROUND by Richard White-- this is my favorite text because it
                encompasses the 60 years of native/white warfare on the Ohio frontier.
                It provides an impartial discription of the War of 1812 but focuses
                rather heavily on British allied natives and excludes important
                information on US allied Shawnee, Delaware and Seneca. I would also
                recommend THE LETTER BOOK OF THE INDIAN AGENCY AT FORT WAYNE ed. by
                Gayle Thornbough-- details annutities and general relations with allied
                and hostile natives alike. An interesting account of the Prophet
                arriving empty handed at the agency with his band, eating them out of
                stores, then speaking at length to his followers and fellow natives - in
                plain view of the agency-- about the benefits of joining the British
                forces. You just cant please everyone.

                Another interesting account of native use of rifles is drawn from Knopfs
                Document Transcriptions and describes natives, perched in trees, firing
                ineffectually into Fort Meigs from the North side of the river. American
                riflemen fired back and, with random luck, actually plucked at least one
                native from the tree. The supposed tree described was marked by the
                City of Maumee and existed in the downtown area until the 1960's.

                And Sean-- just don't steal the ladder again, we know how to retrieve it
                now.

                Betsy
              • Dave&Monica Bosse
                I have been told that the US lost the war but one the peace of this war. That sounded pretty fair. But it took till 1823 to defind the boarder of Maine and
                Message 7 of 16 , Sep 5, 2000
                • 0 Attachment
                  I have been told that the US lost the war but one the peace of this war.
                  That sounded pretty fair. But it took till 1823 to defind the boarder of Maine and Canada. But there is one thing we can never take from Canada.....The best strip joints in North America!

                  Dave Bosse
                  Americas Friend


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • lalozon
                  From: Craig Williams Larry et al, Submitted for your approval... I have contacted Mr. Redmond off-list about this, as I agree with
                  Message 8 of 16 , Apr 6, 2005
                  • 0 Attachment
                    From: "Craig Williams" <sgtwarner@...>

                    Larry et al,

                    Submitted for your approval...

                    I have contacted Mr. Redmond off-list about this, as I agree with him, in
                    that the comment made by Mr. Stott was motivated by modern politics,
                    (terrorism), and not on the passport issue itself. The continued references
                    to the original comment were not about re-enacting but rather about the war
                    on terrorism and all persons, (including myself), were choosing to talk
                    terrorist war when the issue was passports.

                    The three things you should never talk about in polite conversation are
                    politics, religion, and white shoes!

                    Craig Williams







                    Mr. Williams

                    Sir,

                    As always I bow to your wisdom .......

                    Your Humble Servant

                    L. Lozon
                  • johnogden@darksleep.com
                    All- White shoes? Am I missing something? John Ogden
                    Message 9 of 16 , Apr 6, 2005
                    • 0 Attachment
                      All-
                      White shoes? Am I missing something?

                      John Ogden
                      >
                      > From: "Craig Williams" <sgtwarner@...>
                      >
                      > Larry et al,
                      >
                      > Submitted for your approval...
                      >
                      > I have contacted Mr. Redmond off-list about this, as I agree with him,
                      > in
                      > that the comment made by Mr. Stott was motivated by modern politics,
                      > (terrorism), and not on the passport issue itself. The continued
                      > references
                      > to the original comment were not about re-enacting but rather about the
                      > war
                      > on terrorism and all persons, (including myself), were choosing to talk
                      > terrorist war when the issue was passports.
                      >
                      > The three things you should never talk about in polite conversation are
                      > politics, religion, and white shoes!
                      >
                      > Craig Williams
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Mr. Williams
                      >
                      > Sir,
                      >
                      > As always I bow to your wisdom .......
                      >
                      > Your Humble Servant
                      >
                      > L. Lozon
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of
                      > square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS
                      > of square miles...
                      >
                      > Unit Contact information for North America:
                      > ---------------------------------
                      > Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                      > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                      >
                      > American Forces Unit Lisiting
                      > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                      > Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                    • Craig Williams
                      Either you do em or ya don t! Craig
                      Message 10 of 16 , Apr 6, 2005
                      • 0 Attachment
                        Either you do 'em or ya don't!

                        Craig
                        >

                        > All-
                        > White shoes? Am I missing something?
                        >
                        > John Ogden
                      • Len Heidebrecht
                        Well, actually the quote is or ladies in the mess but yes Craig one shouldn t even speak of such a terrible fashion faux pas. Why next people will be
                        Message 11 of 16 , Apr 6, 2005
                        • 0 Attachment
                          Well, actually the quote is or 'ladies in the mess' but yes Craig one
                          shouldn't even speak of such a terrible fashion faux pas. Why next
                          people will be mentioning sandals and socks.
                          Oooh the horror, the horror...
                          Len
                          --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, Craig Williams <sgtwarner@s...>
                          wrote:
                          > Either you do 'em or ya don't!
                          >
                          > Craig
                          > >
                          >
                          > > All-
                          > > White shoes? Am I missing something?
                          > >
                          > > John Ogden
                        • JOHN GREIG
                          ... So you have Essex girls in Canada ? Squire John The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of square miles: in North America,
                          Message 12 of 16 , Apr 6, 2005
                          • 0 Attachment
                            Len Heidebrecht <lheidebrecht@...> wrote:

                            > >
                            >
                            > > All-
                            > > White shoes? Am I missing something?
                            > >
                            > > John Ogden

                            So you have Essex girls in Canada ?

                            Squire John









                            The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of THOUSANDS of square miles...

                            Unit Contact information for North America:
                            ---------------------------------
                            Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                            http://1812crownforces.tripod.com

                            American Forces Unit Lisiting
                            http://usforces1812.tripod.com





                            ---------------------------------


                            Yahoo! Groups Links


                            To visit your group on the web, go to:
                            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/WarOf1812/

                            To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
                            WarOf1812-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com

                            Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.




                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • yawors1
                            ... Plenty of em, Squire! All shapes, sizes, ages, races, creeds. ; ) Jim Yaworsky, of the City of Windsor, in the County of ESSEX (population maybe
                            Message 13 of 16 , Apr 7, 2005
                            • 0 Attachment
                              --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, JOHN GREIG <je.greig@b...> wrote:
                              >

                              > So you have Essex girls in Canada ?
                              >
                              > Squire John
                              >

                              Plenty of 'em, Squire! All shapes, sizes, ages, races, creeds. ;>)

                              Jim Yaworsky, of the City of Windsor, in the County of ESSEX
                              (population maybe 300,000+, about half of whom are probably female),
                              Province of Ontario, Dominion of Canada... (and this isn't the only
                              Essex County in Canada & the U.S.)
                            • Len Heidebrecht
                              Oh, the sad anoraks. Squire, he s speaking of the County of Essex here in Ontario. Sigh. Len ... creeds. ; ) ... only
                              Message 14 of 16 , Apr 7, 2005
                              • 0 Attachment
                                Oh, the sad anoraks.
                                Squire, he's speaking of the County of Essex here in Ontario.
                                Sigh.
                                Len
                                --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "yawors1" <yawors1@u...> wrote:
                                >
                                > --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, JOHN GREIG <je.greig@b...> wrote:
                                > >
                                >
                                > > So you have Essex girls in Canada ?
                                > >
                                > > Squire John
                                > >
                                >
                                > Plenty of 'em, Squire! All shapes, sizes, ages, races,
                                creeds. ;>)
                                >
                                > Jim Yaworsky, of the City of Windsor, in the County of ESSEX
                                > (population maybe 300,000+, about half of whom are probably female),
                                > Province of Ontario, Dominion of Canada... (and this isn't the
                                only
                                > Essex County in Canada & the U.S.)
                              Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.