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Re: [War Of 1812] Forage Cap Source

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  • buffssgt
    I agree, the stocking cap and bonet de police are different enough to be separate hats. In Wellington s Infantry I, under the picture of the surviving wedge
    Message 1 of 18 , May 2, 2007
      I agree, the stocking cap and bonet de police are different enough to
      be separate hats.

      In Wellington's Infantry I, under the picture of the surviving wedge
      cap I believe the caption read that the wedge cap was popular until
      something like the 1820's.

      So counting all these options and variations, really how do you
      determine really what is the most appropriate fatigue hat for any
      particular time in the war?

      Also another interesting quandary, how does this then differ from
      troops garrisoned in Canada, versus troops garrisoned in other parts
      of the empire? I want to say Brassey's British Napoleonic uniforms
      book has one very nice two page picture of a camp scene (Atkinson?)
      in the Penninsula showing a number of wedge caps if my memory serves
      me right.

      I wonder if there are any differing trends between North American
      regiments and those in different parts of the empire.

      Obviously the needs of troops in India and the West Indies were
      different than those in Canada, the Peninsula or on home service.
      The troops in tropical climates were issued modified uniforms for the
      heat, whereas the troops in Canada were issued warmer greatcoats.

      From a practical standpoint (which does not always apply to the army)
      a bonet de police, or a stocking cap can be pulled down farther on
      the head to help keep the ears and head warm in the winter.

      You can fold the flap down on a wedge cap to protect the back of your
      head from rain, or fold it just enough to create a peak and protect
      your eyes.

      I'm having trouble envisioning other useful traits of the pillbox
      cap. Although with the pillbox hat I had made, it's big enough to
      tuck my head into.

      So maybe there were some environmental factors that lead to some
      regiments following a different style, and not just fashion.



      --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Chris McKay" <PrivateCannon@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > Don't get me wrong, I wasn't suggesting that the forage cap that
      you
      > wear is wrong - I have no idea. I was just saying that it is
      better
      > > units having the new pattern is appropriate. Just like tents, or
      > caps...
      >
      > Chris
      >
      > --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Westhouse" <westhouse@>
      > wrote:
      > >
      > > And it gets more confusing and merkier as we go. The Bonnet de
      > Police
      > > with the band as you say 'proper',> > similarity to other units.
      > >
      > > Until the next fashion change or sudden appearance of hard data
      > it's
      > > what we have to wear.
      > >
      > > Dave.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Chris McKay" <PrivateCannon@>
      > > wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Dave et al,
      > > > I believe this may be where some of the confusion comes in.
      > > Though
      > > > > Discriminating General's site, I believe) is a true bonnet de
      > > police
      > > > pattern, with a large turned up band and a tassel.
      > > >
      > > > Chris McKay
      > > >
    • larrylozon
      buffssgt wrote: I agree, the stocking cap and bonet de police are different enough to be separate hats.... how does this then differ from troops
      Message 2 of 18 , May 2, 2007
        "buffssgt" wrote:

        " I agree, the stocking cap and bonet de police are different enough
        to be separate hats.... how does this then differ from troops
        garrisoned in Canada, versus troops garrisoned in other parts of the
        empire? ..."





        I am informed that Fort York (Toronto, Ontario, Canada) received blue
        garrison (Forage) caps [see: photo pillbox2 By: mrkdickerson in the
        Photo section of this Yahoo Group). These were issued to the troops
        garrisoned there.

        This does not coincide with any hat worn in Europe by Wellington's
        Army (as communicated to me)

        We forget The War of 1812 (North America) was not the Penninsula War

        Uniform replacement was not on the priority list for troops in North
        America

        Mr. Twist, Mr.Henderson and others have done research on Forage
        (Garrison) Caps and have come to the conclusion that
        the "elf", "stocking" or " bonnet de police" was the most common hat
        worn by Crown Forces in the Great Lakes area of North America.

        The 7th USI as other USA Forces also wear a similar cap of French
        design



        Yrs.,
        L2
        Upper Canada (Ontario)

        United States Forces 1812
        http://usforces1812.tripod.com

        Crown Forces North America 1812
        http://1812crownforces.tripod.com

        2007 WAR Of 1812 Events
        http://royal.scots.tripod.com/warof1812eventslist

        Sutlers & Merchants
        http://1812crownforces.tripod.com/sutlersmerchants
      • Chris McKay
        Larry, The blue pillbox style forage cap worn by the Fort York guard and the Royal Scots light company was the universal pattern adopted for all infantry
        Message 3 of 18 , May 2, 2007
          Larry,
          The blue pillbox style forage cap worn by the Fort York guard and
          the Royal Scots light company was the universal pattern adopted for
          all infantry regiments in 1812. They were to be issued to all
          infantry regiments, but deliveries to the Peninsula were slow, so
          many did not receive them by the end of the war. In Canada, however,
          10,000 forage caps of this style were recieved in 1813 alone and more
          arrived in 1814. I would argue that by the end of the war, this
          style would dominate in Canada.

          Chris McKay
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > I am informed that Fort York (Toronto, Ontario, Canada) received
          blue
          > garrison (Forage) caps [see: photo pillbox2 By: mrkdickerson in the
          > Photo section of this Yahoo Group). These were issued to the troops
          > garrisoned there.
          >
          > This does not coincide with any hat worn in Europe by Wellington's
          > Army (as communicated to me)
          >
          > We forget The War of 1812 (North America) was not the Penninsula War
          >
          > Uniform replacement was not on the priority list for troops in
          North
          > America
          >
          > Mr. Twist, Mr.Henderson and others have done research on Forage
          > (Garrison) Caps and have come to the conclusion that
          > the "elf", "stocking" or " bonnet de police" was the most common
          hat
          > worn by Crown Forces in the Great Lakes area of North America.
          >
          > The 7th USI as other USA Forces also wear a similar cap of French
          > design
          >
          >
          >
          > Yrs.,
          > L2
          > Upper Canada (Ontario)
          >
          > United States Forces 1812
          > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
          >
          > Crown Forces North America 1812
          > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
          >
          > 2007 WAR Of 1812 Events
          > http://royal.scots.tripod.com/warof1812eventslist
          >
          > Sutlers & Merchants
          > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com/sutlersmerchants
          >
        • larrylozon
          Chris McKay wrote: Larry, ... The blue pillbox style forage cap ... was the universal pattern adopted for all infantry regiments in 1812. ... Chris, What
          Message 4 of 18 , May 2, 2007
            "Chris McKay" wrote:

            Larry,

            "... The blue pillbox style forage cap ... was the universal
            pattern adopted for all infantry regiments in 1812. ..."



            Chris,

            What is your documentation for this?

            Please share it with all of us

            Thanking you in advance,

            Yrs.,
            L2
            PS: Highland Regiments not effected
          • Chris McKay
            For the sake of ease, I ll just refer you to the article written by Keith Raynor (though I did spend some time looking into this issue while I was at the
            Message 5 of 18 , May 2, 2007
              For the sake of ease, I'll just refer you to the article written by
              Keith Raynor (though I did spend some time looking into this issue
              while I was at the Archives).

              http://www.warof1812.ca/foragecaps.htm

              Chris

              --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "larrylozon" <larrylozon@...> wrote:
              >
              >
              > "Chris McKay" wrote:
              >
              > Larry,
              >
              > "... The blue pillbox style forage cap ... was the universal
              > pattern adopted for all infantry regiments in 1812. ..."
              >
              >
              >
              > Chris,
              >
              > What is your documentation for this?
              >
              > Please share it with all of us
              >
              > Thanking you in advance,
              >
              > Yrs.,
              > L2
              > PS: Highland Regiments not effected
              >
            • larrylozon
              Chris McKay wrote: Larry, ... The blue pillbox style forage cap ... was the universal pattern adopted for all infantry regiments in 1812...I ll just refer
              Message 6 of 18 , May 2, 2007
                "Chris McKay" wrote:

                Larry, "... The blue pillbox style forage cap ... was the universal
                pattern adopted for all infantry regiments in 1812...I'll just refer
                you to the article written by Keith Raynor ...
                http://www.warof1812.ca/foragecaps.htm



                Chris

                I must need new bifocals as I cannot find the statement

                "The blue pillbox style forage cap ... was the universal pattern
                adopted for all infantry regiments in 1812"

                in Keith's article.

                Please advise,

                L2
              • Chris McKay
                In fact one watercolour, which is incredibly accurate in all other details, shows a yellow faced regiment wearing bluish grey forage caps with white head
                Message 7 of 18 , May 2, 2007
                  "In fact one watercolour, which is incredibly accurate in all other
                  details, shows a yellow faced regiment wearing bluish grey forage
                  caps with white head bands. However they do not look as flared as
                  the Cavalry pattern and there does not appear to be a torrie. This
                  seems to be the pattern adopted for the infantry by 1813."

                  --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "larrylozon" <larrylozon@...> wrote:
                  >
                  >
                  > "Chris McKay" wrote:
                  >
                  > Larry, "... The blue pillbox style forage cap ... was the
                  universal
                  > pattern adopted for all infantry regiments in 1812...I'll just
                  refer
                  > you to the article written by Keith Raynor ...
                  > http://www.warof1812.ca/foragecaps.htm
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Chris
                  >
                  > I must need new bifocals as I cannot find the statement
                  >
                  > "The blue pillbox style forage cap ... was the universal pattern
                  > adopted for all infantry regiments in 1812"
                  >
                  > in Keith's article.
                  >
                  > Please advise,
                  >
                  > L2
                  >
                • larrylozon
                  Chris McKay wrote: In fact one watercolour ... shows a yellow faced regiment wearing bluish grey forage caps with white head bands... Chris Please send
                  Message 8 of 18 , May 2, 2007
                    "Chris McKay" wrote:

                    "In fact one watercolour ... shows a yellow faced regiment wearing
                    bluish grey forage caps with white head bands..."



                    Chris

                    Please send this watercolour to

                    lalozon (at) netrover.com

                    ... but only if it shows troops in Canada not Europe or UK

                    Thanking you in advance

                    L2
                  • larrylozon
                    Chris McKay wrote: ... one watercolour ... shows a yellow faced regiment wearing bluish grey forage caps with white head bands. .. Chris Perhaps we should
                    Message 9 of 18 , May 2, 2007
                      "Chris McKay" wrote:

                      "... one watercolour ... shows a yellow faced regiment wearing bluish
                      grey forage caps with white head bands. .."



                      Chris

                      Perhaps we should take this conversation (thread) off this Yahoo Group
                      as there are some (I have received emails to the fact) who will not
                      change their kit even if it is historically incorrect


                      Yrs.,
                      L2
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