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Re: [War Of 1812] Forage Cap Source

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  • Mark Dickerson
    Please correct me if I am wrong, but I beleive the porkpie shaped forage cap is a cavalry item and not used by the British infantry. If you check the articles
    Message 1 of 18 , Apr 13 6:32 AM
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      Please correct me if I am wrong, but I beleive the porkpie shaped forage cap is a cavalry item and not used by the British infantry. If you check the articles at the Descriminating General, there is an excellent description of what the hats should be for the infantry during the War of 1812.

      Mark Dickerson


      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Iain Burns
      To: 1812_ProgressiveCampaigner@yahoogroups.com ; WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Friday, April 13, 2007 7:29 AM
      Subject: [War Of 1812] Forage Cap Source


      ....Which leads me to wonder just where I might come up with such a hat...
      does anyone here have a source of supply for the Porkpie shaped Forage Caps; .....


      Any help in this matter would be appreciated,
      By your most North Britanic servant,
      Iain Burns
      Pte
      No. 1 Coy, 42nd





      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Dave Westhouse
      Mark you are correct, This item was covered at the NCO school in April of 2004 I believe, although I was not there(not yet an NCO). The pork pie was discussed
      Message 2 of 18 , Apr 14 7:54 AM
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        Mark you are correct,

        This item was covered at the NCO school in April of 2004 I believe,
        although I was not there(not yet an NCO).

        The pork pie was discussed as you mentioned Mark not to be correct
        for our time period and portrayal and has sparked much debate, even
        within our unit. The article you speak of at the Discriminating
        General is a good one.
        http://www.warof1812.ca/foragecaps.htm
        As discussed in the article there appear to have been 2 types
        the stocking cap and the pillbox.

        Some units have adopted the Bonnet de police(stocking cap) and some
        the pillbox.

        Ray Hobbs has a pattern for the Bonnet de police as do we. If anyone
        needs one, they can contact Ray or myself. I'm sure Mark you could
        provide a pattern for the one the lights wear and also there should
        be sutlers who could manufacture them as well.

        Sutlers should also be aware that many units do not promote the pork
        pie anymore. Know your customer.

        Dave Westhouse,
        1st (Royal Scots) Regiment.


        --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Dickerson" <mdickerson1@...>
        wrote:
        >
        > Please correct me if I am wrong, but I beleive the porkpie shaped
        forage cap is a cavalry item and not used by the British infantry.
        If you check the articles at the Descriminating General, there is an
        excellent description of what the hats should be for the infantry
        during the War of 1812.
        >
        > Mark Dickerson
        >
        >
        > ----- Original Message -----
        > From: Iain Burns
        > Subject: [War Of 1812] Forage Cap Source
        >
        > does anyone here have a source of supply for the Porkpie shaped
        Forage Caps; .....
        >
        >
        > Any help in this matter would be appreciated,
        > By your most North Britanic servant,
        > Iain Burns
        > Pte
        > No. 1 Coy, 42nd
      • buffssgt
        Hello, This might be getting to the point of beating a dead horse, but I m finding this forage cap business to be quite confusing. Especially considering it
        Message 3 of 18 , Apr 23 6:57 AM
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          Hello,
          This might be getting to the point of beating a dead horse, but I'm
          finding this forage cap business to be quite confusing.

          Especially considering it seems that people are using different terms
          to refer to the same article. What I know as a "porkpie" hat is
          completely different than what I believe other people are referring
          to.
          Perhaps one of the authorities could put up some pictures of each
          type of headgear first, so that we may all have a visual reference to
          each article. That way we can instantly connect porkpie, and pillbox
          to an image we've seen.

          Now my understanding is:
          The Bonet de Police (nightcap) hat is being phased out during this
          period. And being replaced by a round forage cap that looks like a
          Tam o'shanter, or the Prussian style forage cap. Now my thought was
          that during the course of the war the transition was being made. The
          War of 1812 site's article seemed to allude to that.
          Also it seems that another hat (the name I know it by escapes me, but
          it's got a half moon shape) is seen in a lot of the camp sketches
          from the early Egyptian campaign. Which my understanding was that
          this hat remained popular for some time as well as another style of
          forage cap. I think in Bryan Fosten's Wellington's Infantry I there
          is a picture of that style which he also mentions it being popular
          among the men. Thus creating a possible 3rd option for forage caps.

          I really think a few really good pictures of each of these hats would
          help reduce some of this confusion.

          Just my two pence.

          Regards,

          Joshua Wingler
          Lt. 1/3rd Foot "The Buffs" East Kent Regiment
          Light Coy. 1814


          --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Westhouse" <westhouse@...>
          wrote:

          "The pork pie was discussed as you mentioned Mark not to be correct
          > for our time period and portrayal and has sparked much debate, even
          > within our unit. The article you speak of at the Discriminating
          > General is a good one.
          > http://www.warof1812.ca/foragecaps.htm
          > As discussed in the article there appear to have been 2 types
          > the stocking cap and the pillbox."


          > --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Dickerson" <mdickerson1@>
          > wrote:
          "Please correct me if I am wrong, but I beleive the porkpie shaped
          > forage cap is a cavalry item and not used by the British infantry.
          > If you check the articles at the Descriminating General, there is
          an
          > excellent description of what the hats should be for the infantry
          > during the War of 1812."
        • Mark Dickerson
          I have included some photos of the hats as you asked Joshua. They are not the best pictures but it can give you an idea. These are how I describe the hats.
          Message 4 of 18 , Apr 23 12:37 PM
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            I have included some photos of the hats as you asked Joshua. They are not the best pictures but it can give you an idea. These are how I describe the hats. Everybody may differ in their opinions.

            Mark Dickerson



            Origianal message

            ..."I really think a few really good pictures of each of these hats would
            help reduce some of this confusion.

            Just my two pence.

            Regards,

            Joshua Wingler
            Lt. 1/3rd Foot "The Buffs" East Kent Regiment
            Light Coy. 1814"







            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Dave Westhouse
            Mark and Joshua, I have added two pics of the bonnet de police as worn by the 1st (Royal Scots) Regiment, Grenadier company. They are the nightcap style. White
            Message 5 of 18 , Apr 24 12:19 AM
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              Mark and Joshua,

              I have added two pics of the bonnet de police as worn by the 1st
              (Royal Scots) Regiment, Grenadier company. They are the nightcap
              style. White with trim, band and number of the same colour as the
              facing.

              Dave Westhouse.

              --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Dickerson" <mdickerson1@...>
              wrote:
              >


              > I have included some photos of the hats as you asked Joshua. They
              are not the best pictures but it can give you an idea. These are how
              I describe the hats. Everybody may differ in their opinions.
              >
              > Mark Dickerson
              >
              >
              >
              > Origianal message
              >
              > ..."I really think a few really good pictures of each of these hats
              would
              > help reduce some of this confusion.
              >
              > Just my two pence.
              >
              > Regards,
              >
              > Joshua Wingler
              > Lt. 1/3rd Foot "The Buffs" East Kent Regiment
              > Light Coy. 1814"
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
            • Chris McKay
              Dave et al, I believe this may be where some of the confusion comes in. Though I don t pretend to know much about stocking forage caps, the article by Keith
              Message 6 of 18 , Apr 24 5:45 AM
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                Dave et al,
                I believe this may be where some of the confusion comes in. Though
                I don't pretend to know much about stocking forage caps, the article
                by Keith Raynor and Robert Henderson lists two styles of stocking
                cap: "one a simple triangle shaped cap with ornamentation mounted on
                it to mimic the French fashion... the other of the exact same pattern
                of the French 'bonnet de police,' with a large turned-up band where
                the forage cap's end and tassel could be tucked." The picture you
                posted as an example of the bonnet de police looks like the first
                pattern mentioned here. It's a simple triangle shape, with basic
                ornamentation and no band. The picture that Mark posted (off the
                Discriminating General's site, I believe) is a true bonnet de police
                pattern, with a large turned up band and a tassel.

                Chris McKay

                --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Westhouse" <westhouse@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > Mark and Joshua,
                >
                > I have added two pics of the bonnet de police as worn by the 1st
                > (Royal Scots) Regiment, Grenadier company. They are the nightcap
                > style. White with trim, band and number of the same colour as the
                > facing.
                >
                > Dave Westhouse.
                >
                > --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Dickerson" <mdickerson1@>
                > wrote:
                > >
                >
                >
                > > I have included some photos of the hats as you asked Joshua.
                They
                > are not the best pictures but it can give you an idea. These are
                how
                > I describe the hats. Everybody may differ in their opinions.
                > >
                > > Mark Dickerson
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > Origianal message
                > >
                > > ..."I really think a few really good pictures of each of these
                hats
                > would
                > > help reduce some of this confusion.
                > >
                > > Just my two pence.
                > >
                > > Regards,
                > >
                > > Joshua Wingler
                > > Lt. 1/3rd Foot "The Buffs" East Kent Regiment
                > > Light Coy. 1814"
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                >
              • Dave Westhouse
                And it gets more confusing and merkier as we go. The Bonnet de Police with the band as you say proper , with the tail that tucks into a band is what I thought
                Message 7 of 18 , Apr 24 6:30 AM
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                  And it gets more confusing and merkier as we go. The Bonnet de Police
                  with the band as you say 'proper', with the tail that tucks into a
                  band is what I thought we were to make when we made the change.

                  What is proper? We can't decide on pork pie, pillbox, bonnet, let
                  alone band or no band, but most other units went with what we
                  currently are using, simple no band boneet like the 41st, 49th, 89th,
                  drums, GLI.

                  Correct? Who knows and will chime in. Better than the pork pie?
                  Probably.

                  Will we ever get all units to wear the same cap? Never. We went with
                  the style we have for many reasons some of which are ease of
                  construction, cost, style, look (matches the barracks jacket), and
                  similarity to other units.

                  Until the next fashion change or sudden appearance of hard data it's
                  what we have to wear.

                  Dave.




                  --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Chris McKay" <PrivateCannon@...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > Dave et al,
                  > I believe this may be where some of the confusion comes in.
                  Though
                  > I don't pretend to know much about stocking forage caps, the
                  article
                  > by Keith Raynor and Robert Henderson lists two styles of stocking
                  > cap: "one a simple triangle shaped cap with ornamentation mounted
                  on
                  > it to mimic the French fashion... the other of the exact same
                  pattern
                  > of the French 'bonnet de police,' with a large turned-up band where
                  > the forage cap's end and tassel could be tucked." The picture you
                  > posted as an example of the bonnet de police looks like the first
                  > pattern mentioned here. It's a simple triangle shape, with basic
                  > ornamentation and no band. The picture that Mark posted (off the
                  > Discriminating General's site, I believe) is a true bonnet de
                  police
                  > pattern, with a large turned up band and a tassel.
                  >
                  > Chris McKay
                  >
                  > --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Westhouse" <westhouse@>
                  > wrote:
                  > >
                  > > Mark and Joshua,
                  > >
                  > > I have added two pics of the bonnet de police as worn by the 1st
                  > > (Royal Scots) Regiment, Grenadier company. They are the nightcap
                  > > style. White with trim, band and number of the same colour as the
                  > > facing.
                  > >
                  > > Dave Westhouse.
                • Craig Williams
                  It would seem that the guarantee here is that the porkpie is incorrect for the infantry. T Craig W ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  Message 8 of 18 , Apr 24 7:14 AM
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                    It would seem that the guarantee here is that the porkpie is
                    incorrect for the infantry.

                    T

                    Craig W
                    >
                    >
                    > Correct? Who knows and will chime in. Better than the pork pie?
                    > Probably.
                    >
                    > Will we ever get all units to wear the same cap? Never. We went with
                    > the style we have for many reasons some of which are ease of
                    > construction, cost, style, look (matches the barracks jacket), and
                    > similarity to other units.
                    >
                    > Until the next fashion change or sudden appearance of hard data it's
                    > what we have to wear.
                    >
                    > Dave.
                    >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Chris McKay
                    Don t get me wrong, I wasn t suggesting that the forage cap that you wear is wrong - I have no idea. I was just saying that it is better labelled a stocking
                    Message 9 of 18 , Apr 24 7:59 AM
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                      Don't get me wrong, I wasn't suggesting that the forage cap that you
                      wear is wrong - I have no idea. I was just saying that it is better
                      labelled a stocking cap than bonnet de police.
                      I don't think we'll ever all be the same either, because different
                      units portray different periods of the war. I believe the 41st
                      portray an earlier period in the war, whereas we portray 1814. The
                      other thing to consider is that at any one time, from unit to unit,
                      there probably were differences in forage caps. Until 1812, the
                      pattern was up to the Regimental colonel. I would suggest,
                      therefore, that showing some units retaining the old pattern and some
                      units having the new pattern is appropriate. Just like tents, or
                      caps...

                      Chris

                      --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Westhouse" <westhouse@...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > And it gets more confusing and merkier as we go. The Bonnet de
                      Police
                      > with the band as you say 'proper', with the tail that tucks into a
                      > band is what I thought we were to make when we made the change.
                      >
                      > What is proper? We can't decide on pork pie, pillbox, bonnet, let
                      > alone band or no band, but most other units went with what we
                      > currently are using, simple no band boneet like the 41st, 49th,
                      89th,
                      > drums, GLI.
                      >
                      > Correct? Who knows and will chime in. Better than the pork pie?
                      > Probably.
                      >
                      > Will we ever get all units to wear the same cap? Never. We went
                      with
                      > the style we have for many reasons some of which are ease of
                      > construction, cost, style, look (matches the barracks jacket), and
                      > similarity to other units.
                      >
                      > Until the next fashion change or sudden appearance of hard data
                      it's
                      > what we have to wear.
                      >
                      > Dave.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Chris McKay" <PrivateCannon@>
                      > wrote:
                      > >
                      > > Dave et al,
                      > > I believe this may be where some of the confusion comes in.
                      > Though
                      > > I don't pretend to know much about stocking forage caps, the
                      > article
                      > > by Keith Raynor and Robert Henderson lists two styles of stocking
                      > > cap: "one a simple triangle shaped cap with ornamentation mounted
                      > on
                      > > it to mimic the French fashion... the other of the exact same
                      > pattern
                      > > of the French 'bonnet de police,' with a large turned-up band
                      where
                      > > the forage cap's end and tassel could be tucked." The picture
                      you
                      > > posted as an example of the bonnet de police looks like the first
                      > > pattern mentioned here. It's a simple triangle shape, with basic
                      > > ornamentation and no band. The picture that Mark posted (off the
                      > > Discriminating General's site, I believe) is a true bonnet de
                      > police
                      > > pattern, with a large turned up band and a tassel.
                      > >
                      > > Chris McKay
                      > >
                      > > --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Westhouse" <westhouse@>
                      > > wrote:
                      > > >
                      > > > Mark and Joshua,
                      > > >
                      > > > I have added two pics of the bonnet de police as worn by the
                      1st
                      > > > (Royal Scots) Regiment, Grenadier company. They are the
                      nightcap
                      > > > style. White with trim, band and number of the same colour as
                      the
                      > > > facing.
                      > > >
                      > > > Dave Westhouse.
                      >
                    • buffssgt
                      I agree, the stocking cap and bonet de police are different enough to be separate hats. In Wellington s Infantry I, under the picture of the surviving wedge
                      Message 10 of 18 , May 2, 2007
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                        I agree, the stocking cap and bonet de police are different enough to
                        be separate hats.

                        In Wellington's Infantry I, under the picture of the surviving wedge
                        cap I believe the caption read that the wedge cap was popular until
                        something like the 1820's.

                        So counting all these options and variations, really how do you
                        determine really what is the most appropriate fatigue hat for any
                        particular time in the war?

                        Also another interesting quandary, how does this then differ from
                        troops garrisoned in Canada, versus troops garrisoned in other parts
                        of the empire? I want to say Brassey's British Napoleonic uniforms
                        book has one very nice two page picture of a camp scene (Atkinson?)
                        in the Penninsula showing a number of wedge caps if my memory serves
                        me right.

                        I wonder if there are any differing trends between North American
                        regiments and those in different parts of the empire.

                        Obviously the needs of troops in India and the West Indies were
                        different than those in Canada, the Peninsula or on home service.
                        The troops in tropical climates were issued modified uniforms for the
                        heat, whereas the troops in Canada were issued warmer greatcoats.

                        From a practical standpoint (which does not always apply to the army)
                        a bonet de police, or a stocking cap can be pulled down farther on
                        the head to help keep the ears and head warm in the winter.

                        You can fold the flap down on a wedge cap to protect the back of your
                        head from rain, or fold it just enough to create a peak and protect
                        your eyes.

                        I'm having trouble envisioning other useful traits of the pillbox
                        cap. Although with the pillbox hat I had made, it's big enough to
                        tuck my head into.

                        So maybe there were some environmental factors that lead to some
                        regiments following a different style, and not just fashion.



                        --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Chris McKay" <PrivateCannon@...>
                        wrote:
                        >
                        > Don't get me wrong, I wasn't suggesting that the forage cap that
                        you
                        > wear is wrong - I have no idea. I was just saying that it is
                        better
                        > > units having the new pattern is appropriate. Just like tents, or
                        > caps...
                        >
                        > Chris
                        >
                        > --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Dave Westhouse" <westhouse@>
                        > wrote:
                        > >
                        > > And it gets more confusing and merkier as we go. The Bonnet de
                        > Police
                        > > with the band as you say 'proper',> > similarity to other units.
                        > >
                        > > Until the next fashion change or sudden appearance of hard data
                        > it's
                        > > what we have to wear.
                        > >
                        > > Dave.
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Chris McKay" <PrivateCannon@>
                        > > wrote:
                        > > >
                        > > > Dave et al,
                        > > > I believe this may be where some of the confusion comes in.
                        > > Though
                        > > > > Discriminating General's site, I believe) is a true bonnet de
                        > > police
                        > > > pattern, with a large turned up band and a tassel.
                        > > >
                        > > > Chris McKay
                        > > >
                      • larrylozon
                        buffssgt wrote: I agree, the stocking cap and bonet de police are different enough to be separate hats.... how does this then differ from troops
                        Message 11 of 18 , May 2, 2007
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                          "buffssgt" wrote:

                          " I agree, the stocking cap and bonet de police are different enough
                          to be separate hats.... how does this then differ from troops
                          garrisoned in Canada, versus troops garrisoned in other parts of the
                          empire? ..."





                          I am informed that Fort York (Toronto, Ontario, Canada) received blue
                          garrison (Forage) caps [see: photo pillbox2 By: mrkdickerson in the
                          Photo section of this Yahoo Group). These were issued to the troops
                          garrisoned there.

                          This does not coincide with any hat worn in Europe by Wellington's
                          Army (as communicated to me)

                          We forget The War of 1812 (North America) was not the Penninsula War

                          Uniform replacement was not on the priority list for troops in North
                          America

                          Mr. Twist, Mr.Henderson and others have done research on Forage
                          (Garrison) Caps and have come to the conclusion that
                          the "elf", "stocking" or " bonnet de police" was the most common hat
                          worn by Crown Forces in the Great Lakes area of North America.

                          The 7th USI as other USA Forces also wear a similar cap of French
                          design



                          Yrs.,
                          L2
                          Upper Canada (Ontario)

                          United States Forces 1812
                          http://usforces1812.tripod.com

                          Crown Forces North America 1812
                          http://1812crownforces.tripod.com

                          2007 WAR Of 1812 Events
                          http://royal.scots.tripod.com/warof1812eventslist

                          Sutlers & Merchants
                          http://1812crownforces.tripod.com/sutlersmerchants
                        • Chris McKay
                          Larry, The blue pillbox style forage cap worn by the Fort York guard and the Royal Scots light company was the universal pattern adopted for all infantry
                          Message 12 of 18 , May 2, 2007
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                            Larry,
                            The blue pillbox style forage cap worn by the Fort York guard and
                            the Royal Scots light company was the universal pattern adopted for
                            all infantry regiments in 1812. They were to be issued to all
                            infantry regiments, but deliveries to the Peninsula were slow, so
                            many did not receive them by the end of the war. In Canada, however,
                            10,000 forage caps of this style were recieved in 1813 alone and more
                            arrived in 1814. I would argue that by the end of the war, this
                            style would dominate in Canada.

                            Chris McKay
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > I am informed that Fort York (Toronto, Ontario, Canada) received
                            blue
                            > garrison (Forage) caps [see: photo pillbox2 By: mrkdickerson in the
                            > Photo section of this Yahoo Group). These were issued to the troops
                            > garrisoned there.
                            >
                            > This does not coincide with any hat worn in Europe by Wellington's
                            > Army (as communicated to me)
                            >
                            > We forget The War of 1812 (North America) was not the Penninsula War
                            >
                            > Uniform replacement was not on the priority list for troops in
                            North
                            > America
                            >
                            > Mr. Twist, Mr.Henderson and others have done research on Forage
                            > (Garrison) Caps and have come to the conclusion that
                            > the "elf", "stocking" or " bonnet de police" was the most common
                            hat
                            > worn by Crown Forces in the Great Lakes area of North America.
                            >
                            > The 7th USI as other USA Forces also wear a similar cap of French
                            > design
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > Yrs.,
                            > L2
                            > Upper Canada (Ontario)
                            >
                            > United States Forces 1812
                            > http://usforces1812.tripod.com
                            >
                            > Crown Forces North America 1812
                            > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                            >
                            > 2007 WAR Of 1812 Events
                            > http://royal.scots.tripod.com/warof1812eventslist
                            >
                            > Sutlers & Merchants
                            > http://1812crownforces.tripod.com/sutlersmerchants
                            >
                          • larrylozon
                            Chris McKay wrote: Larry, ... The blue pillbox style forage cap ... was the universal pattern adopted for all infantry regiments in 1812. ... Chris, What
                            Message 13 of 18 , May 2, 2007
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                              "Chris McKay" wrote:

                              Larry,

                              "... The blue pillbox style forage cap ... was the universal
                              pattern adopted for all infantry regiments in 1812. ..."



                              Chris,

                              What is your documentation for this?

                              Please share it with all of us

                              Thanking you in advance,

                              Yrs.,
                              L2
                              PS: Highland Regiments not effected
                            • Chris McKay
                              For the sake of ease, I ll just refer you to the article written by Keith Raynor (though I did spend some time looking into this issue while I was at the
                              Message 14 of 18 , May 2, 2007
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                                For the sake of ease, I'll just refer you to the article written by
                                Keith Raynor (though I did spend some time looking into this issue
                                while I was at the Archives).

                                http://www.warof1812.ca/foragecaps.htm

                                Chris

                                --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "larrylozon" <larrylozon@...> wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                > "Chris McKay" wrote:
                                >
                                > Larry,
                                >
                                > "... The blue pillbox style forage cap ... was the universal
                                > pattern adopted for all infantry regiments in 1812. ..."
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > Chris,
                                >
                                > What is your documentation for this?
                                >
                                > Please share it with all of us
                                >
                                > Thanking you in advance,
                                >
                                > Yrs.,
                                > L2
                                > PS: Highland Regiments not effected
                                >
                              • larrylozon
                                Chris McKay wrote: Larry, ... The blue pillbox style forage cap ... was the universal pattern adopted for all infantry regiments in 1812...I ll just refer
                                Message 15 of 18 , May 2, 2007
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                                  "Chris McKay" wrote:

                                  Larry, "... The blue pillbox style forage cap ... was the universal
                                  pattern adopted for all infantry regiments in 1812...I'll just refer
                                  you to the article written by Keith Raynor ...
                                  http://www.warof1812.ca/foragecaps.htm



                                  Chris

                                  I must need new bifocals as I cannot find the statement

                                  "The blue pillbox style forage cap ... was the universal pattern
                                  adopted for all infantry regiments in 1812"

                                  in Keith's article.

                                  Please advise,

                                  L2
                                • Chris McKay
                                  In fact one watercolour, which is incredibly accurate in all other details, shows a yellow faced regiment wearing bluish grey forage caps with white head
                                  Message 16 of 18 , May 2, 2007
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                                    "In fact one watercolour, which is incredibly accurate in all other
                                    details, shows a yellow faced regiment wearing bluish grey forage
                                    caps with white head bands. However they do not look as flared as
                                    the Cavalry pattern and there does not appear to be a torrie. This
                                    seems to be the pattern adopted for the infantry by 1813."

                                    --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "larrylozon" <larrylozon@...> wrote:
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > "Chris McKay" wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Larry, "... The blue pillbox style forage cap ... was the
                                    universal
                                    > pattern adopted for all infantry regiments in 1812...I'll just
                                    refer
                                    > you to the article written by Keith Raynor ...
                                    > http://www.warof1812.ca/foragecaps.htm
                                    >
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Chris
                                    >
                                    > I must need new bifocals as I cannot find the statement
                                    >
                                    > "The blue pillbox style forage cap ... was the universal pattern
                                    > adopted for all infantry regiments in 1812"
                                    >
                                    > in Keith's article.
                                    >
                                    > Please advise,
                                    >
                                    > L2
                                    >
                                  • larrylozon
                                    Chris McKay wrote: In fact one watercolour ... shows a yellow faced regiment wearing bluish grey forage caps with white head bands... Chris Please send
                                    Message 17 of 18 , May 2, 2007
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                                      "Chris McKay" wrote:

                                      "In fact one watercolour ... shows a yellow faced regiment wearing
                                      bluish grey forage caps with white head bands..."



                                      Chris

                                      Please send this watercolour to

                                      lalozon (at) netrover.com

                                      ... but only if it shows troops in Canada not Europe or UK

                                      Thanking you in advance

                                      L2
                                    • larrylozon
                                      Chris McKay wrote: ... one watercolour ... shows a yellow faced regiment wearing bluish grey forage caps with white head bands. .. Chris Perhaps we should
                                      Message 18 of 18 , May 2, 2007
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                                        "Chris McKay" wrote:

                                        "... one watercolour ... shows a yellow faced regiment wearing bluish
                                        grey forage caps with white head bands. .."



                                        Chris

                                        Perhaps we should take this conversation (thread) off this Yahoo Group
                                        as there are some (I have received emails to the fact) who will not
                                        change their kit even if it is historically incorrect


                                        Yrs.,
                                        L2
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