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Re: [War Of 1812] Quotes

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  • Ray Hobbs
    L2 The sentiment was originally expressed in the late 16th Century by Charles I of Spain, and was said of the Spanish Empire. Charles was also Charles V of the
    Message 1 of 21 , Mar 2, 2007
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      L2
      The sentiment was originally expressed in the late 16th Century by
      Charles I of Spain, and was said of the Spanish Empire. Charles was
      also Charles V of the Holy Roman Empire at the same time.

      So the Brits "borrowed" the statement/sentiment. More correctly, Lord
      Salisbury used it in 1861 when discussing the cost to Britain of
      maintaining the Empire. Apparently 1.5 million Sterling was a small
      price to pay for the defence of the empire upon which the sun never
      set.

      As far as I am aware, it was not current during the Napoleonic Wars,
      nor the War of 1812.

      Source of this was either Schama's "History of Britain", or Ferguson's
      "Empire" - I do not have them at hand so cannot check.

      Yrs etc.
      Ray H
      XLI


      On 2-Mar-07, at 2:36 PM, larrylozon wrote:

      >
      > "The sun never sets upon the Union Jack"
      > – said by an English Journalist in the aftermass of Waterloo.
      >
      > I found this statement in a book
      >
      > THE LAST LION:
      > Winston Spencer Churchill; alone 1932-1940
      > ISBN 0316 54503 1
      >
      > The statement begs the question where did
      >
      > "The sun never sets upon the British Empire"
      >
      > come from and should we use same during our recreation of the War of
      > 1812?
      >
      > Yrs.,
      > L2
      >
      >
      >
      >

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • suthren@magma.ca
      The idea of an Empire on which the sun never sets only really came into vogue---and expression---in the late Victorian era, after the East India Company had
      Message 2 of 21 , Mar 2, 2007
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        The idea of an Empire on which the sun never sets only really came into vogue---and expression---in the late Victorian era, after the East India Company had given up its monopoly of India and the rush to seize colonial territories of the 1880-1900 period overwhelmed the free-trade-and-no-colonies thinking of the 1830s-1850s. I suspect---although better scholars than me will possibly disagree---that it is not really a mode of thought for our 1812-1814 focus.

        Vic Suthren
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: larrylozon
        To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 2:36 PM
        Subject: [War Of 1812] Quotes



        "The sun never sets upon the Union Jack"
        - said by an English Journalist in the aftermass of Waterloo.

        I found this statement in a book

        THE LAST LION:
        Winston Spencer Churchill; alone 1932-1940
        ISBN 0316 54503 1

        The statement begs the question where did

        "The sun never sets upon the British Empire"

        come from and should we use same during our recreation of the War of
        1812?

        Yrs.,
        L2





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • suthren@magma.ca
        Now, boyo, there s a proper scholar, look you... Vic ... From: Ray Hobbs To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 3:19 PM Subject: Re: [War
        Message 3 of 21 , Mar 2, 2007
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          Now, boyo, there's a proper scholar, look you...

          Vic
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Ray Hobbs
          To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 3:19 PM
          Subject: Re: [War Of 1812] Quotes


          L2
          The sentiment was originally expressed in the late 16th Century by
          Charles I of Spain, and was said of the Spanish Empire. Charles was
          also Charles V of the Holy Roman Empire at the same time.

          So the Brits "borrowed" the statement/sentiment. More correctly, Lord
          Salisbury used it in 1861 when discussing the cost to Britain of
          maintaining the Empire. Apparently 1.5 million Sterling was a small
          price to pay for the defence of the empire upon which the sun never
          set.

          As far as I am aware, it was not current during the Napoleonic Wars,
          nor the War of 1812.

          Source of this was either Schama's "History of Britain", or Ferguson's
          "Empire" - I do not have them at hand so cannot check.

          Yrs etc.
          Ray H
          XLI

          On 2-Mar-07, at 2:36 PM, larrylozon wrote:

          >
          > "The sun never sets upon the Union Jack"
          > – said by an English Journalist in the aftermass of Waterloo.
          >
          > I found this statement in a book
          >
          > THE LAST LION:
          > Winston Spencer Churchill; alone 1932-1940
          > ISBN 0316 54503 1
          >
          > The statement begs the question where did
          >
          > "The sun never sets upon the British Empire"
          >
          > come from and should we use same during our recreation of the War of
          > 1812?
          >
          > Yrs.,
          > L2
          >
          >
          >
          >

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Colin
          I can only imagine some of you have seeen this coming but I had say it. I attribute the quote to to a family member, but I can not recall which one and I
          Message 4 of 21 , Mar 2, 2007
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            I can only imagine some of you have seeen this coming but I had say it.
            I attribute the quote to to a family member, but I can not recall
            which one and I believe many other on this list of the Irish race can
            attribute it to family members of their own, but it has always been
            one of my favorites;

            "The sun never sets on the British Empire...Because God does not trust
            them in the dark!"

            Sorry ..Had to. <-(I must be a repentant Fenian)

            Yrs
            Colin Murphy
            USS CON 1812MG
          • Kevin Windsor
            Murph that was your dad that said that!! KW _____ I can only imagine some of you have seeen this coming but I had say it. I attribute the quote to to a family
            Message 5 of 21 , Mar 2, 2007
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              Murph that was your dad that said that!!



              KW



              _____



              I can only imagine some of you have seeen this coming but I had say it.
              I attribute the quote to to a family member,



              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Ray Hobbs
              Actually, that was said by a Ceylonese (Sri Lankan) politician as that island country was working towards independence. I guess if the Brits can steal the
              Message 6 of 21 , Mar 2, 2007
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                Actually, that was said by a Ceylonese (Sri Lankan) politician as that
                island country was working towards independence. I guess if the Brits
                can steal the original quote, the Irish are welcome to that one :)
                Ray H
                XLI

                On 2-Mar-07, at 8:17 PM, Colin wrote:

                > I can only imagine some of you have seeen this coming but I had say it.
                > I attribute the quote to to a family member, but I can not recall
                > which one and I believe many other on this list of the Irish race can
                > attribute it to family members of their own, but it has always been
                > one of my favorites;
                >
                > "The sun never sets on the British Empire...Because God does not trust
                > them in the dark!"
                >
                > Sorry ..Had to. <-(I must be a repentant Fenian)
                >
                > Yrs
                > Colin Murphy
                > USS CON 1812MG
                >
                >
                >
                >

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Peter Catley
                but Colin, which God :-) and the correct saying is the sun has never set on the British Empire although we would have to say that it has become the
                Message 7 of 21 , Mar 6, 2007
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                  but Colin, which God :-)

                  and the correct saying is "the sun has never set on the British Empire"
                  although we would have to say that it has become the Confederation of
                  the Commonwealth can any other Empire c;aim that? After all countries
                  can come and go:-)

                  Cheers now.

                  P**

                  Colin wrote:
                  >
                  > I can only imagine some of you have seeen this coming but I had say it.
                  > I attribute the quote to to a family member, but I can not recall
                  > which one and I believe many other on this list of the Irish race can
                  > attribute it to family members of their own, but it has always been
                  > one of my favorites;
                  >
                  > "The sun never sets on the British Empire...Because God does not trust
                  > them in the dark!"
                  >
                  > Sorry ..Had to. <-(I must be a repentant Fenian)
                  >
                  > Yrs
                  > Colin Murphy
                  > USS CON 1812MG
                  >
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