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RE: [War Of 1812] Quotes

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  • sgtwarner@sympatico.ca
    Larry, I can t assign the quote directly, but I believe it was coined at the pinnacle of British empire building during Victoria s reign, Craig Williams
    Message 1 of 21 , Mar 2, 2007
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      Larry,

      I can't assign the quote directly, but I believe it was coined at the
      pinnacle of British empire building during Victoria's reign,

      Craig Williams


      >From: "larrylozon" <larrylozon@...>
      >Reply-To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
      >To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
      >Subject: [War Of 1812] Quotes
      >Date: Fri, 02 Mar 2007 19:36:11 -0000
      >
      >
      >"The sun never sets upon the Union Jack"
      > � said by an English Journalist in the aftermass of Waterloo.
      >
      >I found this statement in a book
      >
      >THE LAST LION:
      >Winston Spencer Churchill; alone 1932-1940
      >ISBN 0316 54503 1
      >
      >
      >The statement begs the question where did
      >
      > "The sun never sets upon the British Empire"
      >
      >come from and should we use same during our recreation of the War of
      >1812?
      >
      >Yrs.,
      > L2
      >
      >
    • Ray Hobbs
      L2 The sentiment was originally expressed in the late 16th Century by Charles I of Spain, and was said of the Spanish Empire. Charles was also Charles V of the
      Message 2 of 21 , Mar 2, 2007
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        L2
        The sentiment was originally expressed in the late 16th Century by
        Charles I of Spain, and was said of the Spanish Empire. Charles was
        also Charles V of the Holy Roman Empire at the same time.

        So the Brits "borrowed" the statement/sentiment. More correctly, Lord
        Salisbury used it in 1861 when discussing the cost to Britain of
        maintaining the Empire. Apparently 1.5 million Sterling was a small
        price to pay for the defence of the empire upon which the sun never
        set.

        As far as I am aware, it was not current during the Napoleonic Wars,
        nor the War of 1812.

        Source of this was either Schama's "History of Britain", or Ferguson's
        "Empire" - I do not have them at hand so cannot check.

        Yrs etc.
        Ray H
        XLI


        On 2-Mar-07, at 2:36 PM, larrylozon wrote:

        >
        > "The sun never sets upon the Union Jack"
        > – said by an English Journalist in the aftermass of Waterloo.
        >
        > I found this statement in a book
        >
        > THE LAST LION:
        > Winston Spencer Churchill; alone 1932-1940
        > ISBN 0316 54503 1
        >
        > The statement begs the question where did
        >
        > "The sun never sets upon the British Empire"
        >
        > come from and should we use same during our recreation of the War of
        > 1812?
        >
        > Yrs.,
        > L2
        >
        >
        >
        >

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • suthren@magma.ca
        The idea of an Empire on which the sun never sets only really came into vogue---and expression---in the late Victorian era, after the East India Company had
        Message 3 of 21 , Mar 2, 2007
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          The idea of an Empire on which the sun never sets only really came into vogue---and expression---in the late Victorian era, after the East India Company had given up its monopoly of India and the rush to seize colonial territories of the 1880-1900 period overwhelmed the free-trade-and-no-colonies thinking of the 1830s-1850s. I suspect---although better scholars than me will possibly disagree---that it is not really a mode of thought for our 1812-1814 focus.

          Vic Suthren
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: larrylozon
          To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
          Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 2:36 PM
          Subject: [War Of 1812] Quotes



          "The sun never sets upon the Union Jack"
          - said by an English Journalist in the aftermass of Waterloo.

          I found this statement in a book

          THE LAST LION:
          Winston Spencer Churchill; alone 1932-1940
          ISBN 0316 54503 1

          The statement begs the question where did

          "The sun never sets upon the British Empire"

          come from and should we use same during our recreation of the War of
          1812?

          Yrs.,
          L2





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • suthren@magma.ca
          Now, boyo, there s a proper scholar, look you... Vic ... From: Ray Hobbs To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 3:19 PM Subject: Re: [War
          Message 4 of 21 , Mar 2, 2007
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            Now, boyo, there's a proper scholar, look you...

            Vic
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: Ray Hobbs
            To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Friday, March 02, 2007 3:19 PM
            Subject: Re: [War Of 1812] Quotes


            L2
            The sentiment was originally expressed in the late 16th Century by
            Charles I of Spain, and was said of the Spanish Empire. Charles was
            also Charles V of the Holy Roman Empire at the same time.

            So the Brits "borrowed" the statement/sentiment. More correctly, Lord
            Salisbury used it in 1861 when discussing the cost to Britain of
            maintaining the Empire. Apparently 1.5 million Sterling was a small
            price to pay for the defence of the empire upon which the sun never
            set.

            As far as I am aware, it was not current during the Napoleonic Wars,
            nor the War of 1812.

            Source of this was either Schama's "History of Britain", or Ferguson's
            "Empire" - I do not have them at hand so cannot check.

            Yrs etc.
            Ray H
            XLI

            On 2-Mar-07, at 2:36 PM, larrylozon wrote:

            >
            > "The sun never sets upon the Union Jack"
            > – said by an English Journalist in the aftermass of Waterloo.
            >
            > I found this statement in a book
            >
            > THE LAST LION:
            > Winston Spencer Churchill; alone 1932-1940
            > ISBN 0316 54503 1
            >
            > The statement begs the question where did
            >
            > "The sun never sets upon the British Empire"
            >
            > come from and should we use same during our recreation of the War of
            > 1812?
            >
            > Yrs.,
            > L2
            >
            >
            >
            >

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Colin
            I can only imagine some of you have seeen this coming but I had say it. I attribute the quote to to a family member, but I can not recall which one and I
            Message 5 of 21 , Mar 2, 2007
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              I can only imagine some of you have seeen this coming but I had say it.
              I attribute the quote to to a family member, but I can not recall
              which one and I believe many other on this list of the Irish race can
              attribute it to family members of their own, but it has always been
              one of my favorites;

              "The sun never sets on the British Empire...Because God does not trust
              them in the dark!"

              Sorry ..Had to. <-(I must be a repentant Fenian)

              Yrs
              Colin Murphy
              USS CON 1812MG
            • Kevin Windsor
              Murph that was your dad that said that!! KW _____ I can only imagine some of you have seeen this coming but I had say it. I attribute the quote to to a family
              Message 6 of 21 , Mar 2, 2007
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                Murph that was your dad that said that!!



                KW



                _____



                I can only imagine some of you have seeen this coming but I had say it.
                I attribute the quote to to a family member,



                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Ray Hobbs
                Actually, that was said by a Ceylonese (Sri Lankan) politician as that island country was working towards independence. I guess if the Brits can steal the
                Message 7 of 21 , Mar 2, 2007
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                  Actually, that was said by a Ceylonese (Sri Lankan) politician as that
                  island country was working towards independence. I guess if the Brits
                  can steal the original quote, the Irish are welcome to that one :)
                  Ray H
                  XLI

                  On 2-Mar-07, at 8:17 PM, Colin wrote:

                  > I can only imagine some of you have seeen this coming but I had say it.
                  > I attribute the quote to to a family member, but I can not recall
                  > which one and I believe many other on this list of the Irish race can
                  > attribute it to family members of their own, but it has always been
                  > one of my favorites;
                  >
                  > "The sun never sets on the British Empire...Because God does not trust
                  > them in the dark!"
                  >
                  > Sorry ..Had to. <-(I must be a repentant Fenian)
                  >
                  > Yrs
                  > Colin Murphy
                  > USS CON 1812MG
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Peter Catley
                  but Colin, which God :-) and the correct saying is the sun has never set on the British Empire although we would have to say that it has become the
                  Message 8 of 21 , Mar 6, 2007
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                    but Colin, which God :-)

                    and the correct saying is "the sun has never set on the British Empire"
                    although we would have to say that it has become the Confederation of
                    the Commonwealth can any other Empire c;aim that? After all countries
                    can come and go:-)

                    Cheers now.

                    P**

                    Colin wrote:
                    >
                    > I can only imagine some of you have seeen this coming but I had say it.
                    > I attribute the quote to to a family member, but I can not recall
                    > which one and I believe many other on this list of the Irish race can
                    > attribute it to family members of their own, but it has always been
                    > one of my favorites;
                    >
                    > "The sun never sets on the British Empire...Because God does not trust
                    > them in the dark!"
                    >
                    > Sorry ..Had to. <-(I must be a repentant Fenian)
                    >
                    > Yrs
                    > Colin Murphy
                    > USS CON 1812MG
                    >
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