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1800- british drummers beatings

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  • Barry Turnbull
    Hello to the group, I hope you can help me, i am finding my transition from ex medieval reenactor of 15 years to napoleonic british drummer a bit of a
    Message 1 of 10 , Dec 29, 2006
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      Hello to the group, I hope you can help me, i am finding my
      transition from ex medieval reenactor of 15 years to napoleonic
      british drummer a bit of a disaster,
      I am researching British drummers uniforms and duties etc and am
      wondering if any of you have any info you can share with me or if you
      can lead me in a direction I should follow.
      I am having trouble chasing down the correct/dated drummers
      calls/beatings for the period 1800-1815.
      I have plenty of written scores but I am not sure how relevant they
      are to the British army during the Peninsular and Napoleonic periods.
      hopefully one you can direct me to a possible source that I can use
      that is historically accurate.
      *my first request is for the correct camp duties/beatings for the
      period.
      *my secound is for any recordings of those beatings.
      my third question is are both the american british beatings the same
      as the european british beatings of the time?
      *and my forth is any information on the wearing of the bearskin cap
      for this period by british drummers,(not grenadiers).
      hope you can help.
      any help would be appreciated.
      barry
    • Kevin Windsor
      Ross Flowers Drum Major for the Crown Forces North America! He is a source we (ab)use quite often. Though be prepared, if you use him too often you will turn
      Message 2 of 10 , Dec 30, 2006
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        Ross Flowers Drum Major for the Crown Forces North America!

        He is a source we (ab)use quite often.

        Though be prepared, if you use him too often you will turn 'green'!!



        http://www.drums1812.org/



        As to the bearskin, yes the drummers wore them. Off the top of my head (and
        Ross will correct me if I am wrong) if you are doing early war (or pre war)
        you can wear a bearskin and be in a centre company, but shortly after the
        War of 1812 started only the Grenadier drummers were allowed to wear them.



        Kevin Windsor

        Grenadier Coy

        89th Reg't





        _____

        From: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com [mailto:WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
        Of Barry Turnbull

        hopefully one you can direct me to a possible source that I can use that is
        historically accurate.



        is any information on the wearing of the bearskin cap for this period by
        British drummers,(not grenadiers).





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • James Yaworsky
        ... Good news: same army, same uniforms, same regulations, same, well... everything! We re all one big happy bunch of Soldiers of the King... Jim Yaworsky
        Message 3 of 10 , Dec 30, 2006
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          --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Barry Turnbull"
          > my third question is are both the american british beatings the same
          > as the european british beatings of the time?

          Good news: same army, same uniforms, same regulations, same, well...
          everything! We're all one big happy bunch of Soldiers of the King...

          Jim Yaworsky
          41st
        • Chris McKay
          This brings up an interesting question: which Regiment are you planning on drumming for? That will dictate your uniform. The Royals, for example, didn t have
          Message 4 of 10 , Dec 31, 2006
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            This brings up an interesting question: which Regiment are you
            planning on drumming for? That will dictate your uniform. The
            Royals, for example, didn't have bearskins (drummers, grenadiers or
            anybody). Other Regiments would be different, of course.

            Chris

            --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "James Yaworsky" <yawors1@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Barry Turnbull"
            > > my third question is are both the american british beatings the
            same
            > > as the european british beatings of the time?
            >
            > Good news: same army, same uniforms, same regulations, same,
            well...
            > everything! We're all one big happy bunch of Soldiers of the King...
            >
            > Jim Yaworsky
            > 41st
            >
          • Jack E. Pritchard
            ... What! are you saying that Royal Regiments did not wear Bearskin Caps. All Regiments per His Majesty s Royal Warrents where to have their Drummers wearing
            Message 5 of 10 , Jan 1, 2007
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              --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Chris McKay" <PrivateCannon@...>
              wrote:
              >
              > This brings up an interesting question: which Regiment are you
              > planning on drumming for? That will dictate your uniform. The
              > Royals, for example, didn't have bearskins (drummers, grenadiers or
              > anybody). Other Regiments would be different, of course.
              >
              > Chris

              What! are you saying that Royal Regiments did not wear Bearskin Caps.
              All Regiments per His Majesty's Royal Warrents where to have their
              Drummers wearing bearskin caps. Now when in the field or in a far off
              land they may have used a shako because of costs of the Bearskin caps.
              When the Royal Welch Fusiliers when to Spain they stored their caps
              and use Stove pipe shakos. That said the Grenadier coy, and the
              drummers still may have worn their Bearskin caps.

              THE DRUM Hugh Barty-King
              Uniform Warrent 1802

              Cheers to you Jack


              Fusiliers in Spain 1809
              Royal Welch Fusiliers in Spain 1809 - 23rd Regiment
              Captain Jack Pritchard, Commanding - Gren. & Lt. Detactment
              Members - 1812 Crown Forces, Brigade Napoléon: Napoleonic Reenactment

              I swear to be true to our Sovereign Lord King George, and to serve
              him honestly and faithfully, in Defense of His Person, Crown, and
              Dignity, against all His Enemies or Opposers whatever: And to observe
              and obey His Majesty's Orders, and the Orders of the Generals and
              Officers set over me by His Majesty."
            • Chris McKay
              Sorry, no. First off, when I say the Royals, I don t mean Royal Regiments in general, but THE Royal Regiment (later the Royal Scots). The fourth battalion
              Message 6 of 10 , Jan 1, 2007
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                Sorry, no. First off, when I say "the Royals," I don't mean Royal
                Regiments in general, but THE Royal Regiment (later the Royal
                Scots). The fourth battalion of the Royal Scots had bearskins as
                they were stationed in England in 1812. The first battalion,
                however, since they came directly from the West Indies, didn't have
                them - inspection returns are pretty clear on this point. I believe
                the Third Battalion (in the Peninsula) and the Second Battalion (in
                India) left them at home as well.

                Chris


                > What! are you saying that Royal Regiments did not wear Bearskin
                Caps.
                > All Regiments per His Majesty's Royal Warrents where to have their
                > Drummers wearing bearskin caps. Now when in the field or in a far
                off
                > land they may have used a shako because of costs of the Bearskin
                caps.
                > When the Royal Welch Fusiliers when to Spain they stored their caps
                > and use Stove pipe shakos. That said the Grenadier coy, and the
                > drummers still may have worn their Bearskin caps.
                >
                > THE DRUM Hugh Barty-King
                > Uniform Warrent 1802
                >
                > Cheers to you Jack
                >
                >
                > Fusiliers in Spain 1809
                > Royal Welch Fusiliers in Spain 1809 - 23rd Regiment
                > Captain Jack Pritchard, Commanding - Gren. & Lt. Detactment
                > Members - 1812 Crown Forces, Brigade Napoléon: Napoleonic
                Reenactment
                >
                > I swear to be true to our Sovereign Lord King George, and to serve
                > him honestly and faithfully, in Defense of His Person, Crown, and
                > Dignity, against all His Enemies or Opposers whatever: And to
                observe
                > and obey His Majesty's Orders, and the Orders of the Generals and
                > Officers set over me by His Majesty."
                >
              • Tom Fournier
                I am responding to the thread around Drummers and Bearskins ... I have some details from an 1811 return for the 41st Regiment while they were in Canada: Under
                Message 7 of 10 , Jan 1, 2007
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                  I am responding to the thread around Drummers and Bearskins ...

                  I have some details from an 1811 return for the 41st Regiment while
                  they were in Canada:

                  Under Accoutrements:

                  Drummers

                  Hangers 22
                  Belts 22
                  Drum Carriages 20
                  Drum Cases 20

                  Under Clothing:

                  Drummers

                  Coats 22
                  Waistcoats 22
                  Breeches 22
                  Shoes 22
                  Grenadier Caps 4
                  Caps 22
                  Great Coats 22

                  For the rank & file, there were also 80 Grenadier Caps and for the
                  Sergeants there were 4 Grenadier Caps.

                  I am assuming that the standard "Caps" are the same stovepipe shakos
                  that the rank & file wore?

                  Wishing everyone a Happy New Year!

                  Tom Fournier
                  41st Regiment of Foot
                  www.fortyfirst.org
                • Luthien Tinuviel
                  ... So it would seem that the drummers and fifers of the grenadier company had both a shako and a bearskin (if grenadier cap may be interpreted as bearskin)?
                  Message 8 of 10 , Jan 1, 2007
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                    --- Tom Fournier <tom4141fournier@...> wrote:

                    >
                    > I have some details from an 1811 return for the 41st
                    > Regiment while
                    > they were in Canada:
                    >
                    > Under Accoutrements:
                    >
                    >
                    > Under Clothing:
                    >
                    > Drummers
                    >
                    > Coats 22
                    > Waistcoats 22
                    > Breeches 22
                    > Shoes 22
                    > Grenadier Caps 4
                    > Caps 22
                    > Great Coats 22



                    So it would seem that the drummers and fifers of the
                    grenadier company had both a shako and a bearskin (if
                    "grenadier cap" may be interpreted as bearskin)?
                    Perhaps the bearskins were only worn for special
                    occasions?

                    Beck
                    Fifer, 89th Regt. Grenadier Coy.


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                  • Tom Fournier
                    ... Good question! I went back and checked the ratios on some of the others: 40 Sergeant Coats 40 Caps 4 Grenadier Caps 664 Rank and File Coats 664 Caps 80
                    Message 9 of 10 , Jan 1, 2007
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                      --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, Luthien Tinuviel <rrbeckner@...>
                      wrote:
                      >
                      > So it would seem that the drummers and fifers of the
                      > grenadier company had both a shako and a bearskin (if
                      > "grenadier cap" may be interpreted as bearskin)?
                      > Perhaps the bearskins were only worn for special
                      > occasions?
                      >
                      > Beck
                      > Fifer, 89th Regt. Grenadier Coy.
                      >


                      Good question! I went back and checked the ratios on some of the
                      others:

                      40 Sergeant Coats
                      40 Caps
                      4 Grenadier Caps

                      664 Rank and File Coats
                      664 Caps
                      80 Grenadier Caps

                      The same seems to hold true - both the Grenadier Cap and a regular
                      Cap for all ...

                      Tom
                    • BritcomHMP@aol.com
                      In a message dated 01/01/2007 21:19:45 Central Standard Time, rrbeckner@yahoo.com writes: So it would seem that the drummers and fifers of the grenadier
                      Message 10 of 10 , Jan 2, 2007
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                        In a message dated 01/01/2007 21:19:45 Central Standard Time,
                        rrbeckner@... writes:

                        So it would seem that the drummers and fifers of the
                        grenadier company had both a shako and a bearskin (if
                        "grenadier cap" may be interpreted as bearskin)?
                        Perhaps the bearskins were only worn for special
                        occasions?





                        Not surprising really, Canada was a British possession, the army was not
                        sent there to fight a campaign but was a native army defending its territory
                        from an invader. As such all the troops there (pre invasion) would have been
                        equipped for the formal ceremonies in such a station, including 'grenadier caps'
                        (bearskins is a relatively modern term). Also remember that Sir George
                        Prevost was well known for being a martinet so we can be sure that all formal
                        ceremonies were carried out in the regulation dress, in fact there were Peninsula
                        veterans who complained that Prevost was far more picky about such things
                        than Wellington.

                        Cheers,

                        Tim


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