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Re: Winter Storage of Equipment

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  • glifencible
    ... Shameless plug... Dan Pearson will be doing a presentation on this very topic at the Living History Conference in March. http://livinghistoryconference.com
    Message 1 of 22 , Dec 4, 2006
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      > Can anyone offer some tips as to the year-end cleaning and storage of
      > equipment until Longwoods 2007? Muskets, bayonets, cutlasses, swords,
      > leatherwork, etc.? Cleaning, oiling, polishing, etc.?
      >
      > Without being under the scrutiny of the public this time, it is
      > possible to use the best of the modern products and techniques. What
      > is recommended? What do you use?

      Shameless plug...

      Dan Pearson will be doing a presentation on this very topic at the
      Living History Conference in March.

      http://livinghistoryconference.com

      You may also check out this thread:

      http://glengarrylightinfantry.ca/forum/viewtopic.php?t=7
    • larrylozon
      Ray Hobbs wrote: Gordon: I am sure that most of the redcoat reenactors do what we do in the 41st - continue our reenacting throughout the winter months. I
      Message 2 of 22 , Dec 4, 2006
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        Ray Hobbs wrote:

        Gordon:
        I am sure that most of the redcoat reenactors do what we do in the
        41st - continue our reenacting throughout the winter months.





        I must add to the esteemed Doctor Hobbs' statement:



        If the re-enactor follows the orders set out in i812 - -

        He will clean his musket and kit after he has used it
        and it is ready to be used or stored.


        Yrs.,
        L2
      • glifencible
        ... To add to Larry s statement that was added to Ray s statement, the sooner you clean your musket after using it, and the more frequently you clean it makes
        Message 3 of 22 , Dec 4, 2006
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          --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "larrylozon" <larrylozon@...> wrote:
          >
          >
          >
          > Ray Hobbs wrote:
          >
          > Gordon:
          > I am sure that most of the redcoat reenactors do what we do in the
          > 41st - continue our reenacting throughout the winter months.
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > I must add to the esteemed Doctor Hobbs' statement:
          >
          >
          >
          > If the re-enactor follows the orders set out in i812 - -
          >
          > He will clean his musket and kit after he has used it
          > and it is ready to be used or stored.
          >
          >
          > Yrs.,
          > L2
          To add to Larry's statement that was added to Ray's statement, the
          sooner you clean your musket after using it, and the more frequently
          you clean it makes it much easier to maintain. It will probably work
          better too.
        • suthren@magma.ca
          Naval Kit Storage, Off-season Leatherwork: clean and rub down with Dubbin or similar product Linen, other washables: hand wash in cold water, rinse, and air
          Message 4 of 22 , Dec 4, 2006
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            Naval Kit Storage, Off-season

            Leatherwork: clean and rub down with 'Dubbin' or similar product
            Linen, other washables: hand wash in cold water, rinse, and air dry
            Woolen coats, waistcoats: dryclean and air out afterward
            Canvas (duck) slops: wash if needed in cold water; air dry thoroughly. 'Dubbin' on leather sheath.
            Steel items e.g. sheath knives: clean, wipe down with cloth touched with light oil
            Shoes: clean, polish (if smooth) and apply light coat of 'Dubbin'. Put in shoe trees or cram with paper
            Musquetoons, pistols: clean with warm soapy water; wipe/swab dry; wipe/swab down with light machine oil cloth
            Cutlasses, pikes, boarding axes: ditto as per firelocks
            Canvas items e,g, seabags, hammocks, haversacks, : air in sun to clear out mould and damp before folding and stowing
            Brass: not to be polished. Clean if necessary with warm soapy water and wipe dry.
            Cocked hats: brush with stiff brush

            Store all items away from damp. Place cedar balls or chips with clothing, particularly woolen coats, waistcoats and breeches.

            Pack away lovingly and think of next year....

            Vic Suthren
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: larrylozon
            To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 2:25 PM
            Subject: [WarOf1812] Winter Storage of Equipment




            Ray Hobbs wrote:

            Gordon:
            I am sure that most of the redcoat reenactors do what we do in the
            41st - continue our reenacting throughout the winter months.

            I must add to the esteemed Doctor Hobbs' statement:

            If the re-enactor follows the orders set out in i812 - -

            He will clean his musket and kit after he has used it
            and it is ready to be used or stored.

            Yrs.,
            L2






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          • Dale Kidd
            Speaking as one who is NOT generally actively reenacting during the winter months, I have come up with some minimal maintenance routines. (Though I admit that
            Message 5 of 22 , Dec 4, 2006
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              Speaking as one who is NOT generally actively reenacting during the
              winter months, I have come up with some minimal maintenance routines.
              (Though I admit that I am hoping to be a bit busier this winter than in
              previous years.)

              My muskets/rifles have been stripped and well cleaned, lightly oiled
              where required (NO WD-40... it is reputed to be mildly corrosive over
              long term). I store my guns on a rack in a cool, dry room, uncased.
              Every couple of weeks I wipe them down with a soft silcon-impregnated
              cloth, of the type widely available for hunting and fishing equipment.
              I also polish the brass hardware (with Brasso), and the stocks (with
              liquid furniture polish). If any of the guns have given any hint of
              mechanical problems during the season, they take an off-season trip to
              visit Les Szabo for a tuneup.

              Swords, cutlasses, and bayonets have been carefully cleaned, all the
              brass polished, the blades wiped down with the silicon cloth. I store
              the blades sheathed, racked with the guns. They are also periodically
              wiped down.

              I treat all my leather with a leather conditioner, and make sure that
              any neccessary restitching is taken care of. If needed, I can clean
              and re-dye any pieces that are starting to look overly worn, or have
              been severely scuffed. (Fortunately, I don't have white leather to
              worry about.) I hang up all my leather in a cool, dry place.

              Finally, I also use the off-season to clean up my existing uniforms.
              Wearing white trousers means there's plenty of stain removal to
              achieve. There are always one or two shirt seams that need mending, as
              well. I have also put a couple of new uniform pieces on my Christmas
              list this year... hope Santa is listening. Coats, cloaks, waistcoats,
              and hats need brushing, and sometimes dry cleaning if they're really
              mucked up. (I've found that felt hats, like top hats or round hats,
              respond well to being steamed and brushed.)

              Some of the others, more experienced than I, may have different, and
              even better winter storage and maintenance tips to offer. I hope,
              however, that these are of some use.

              Dale Kidd
              Master at Arms
              H.M. Provincial Marine
            • JGIL1812@aol.com
              In a message dated 12/4/2006 11:51:23 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, blongo@sears.ca writes: He will clean his musket and kit after he has used it ... What s all
              Message 6 of 22 , Dec 4, 2006
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                In a message dated 12/4/2006 11:51:23 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
                blongo@... writes:

                He will clean his musket and kit after he has used it
                > and it is ready to be used or stored.



                What's all this non sense about cleaning and storing your musket. By God
                man... come and campaign at New Orleans in January. I am sure the General can
                ensure that you are put to good use.

                JG/RE


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Mark Dickerson
                I have tried dry cleaning my coats in the past and have been unsatisfied with it. They tend to ruin the pewter buttons. Just simply do what the soldiers did
                Message 7 of 22 , Dec 4, 2006
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                  I have tried dry cleaning my coats in the past and have been unsatisfied with it. They tend to ruin the pewter buttons. Just simply do what the soldiers did 200 years ago. Wash them! Use cold water, gentle cycle, a little bit of Woolite, and allow the drip dry for a couple of days.
                  NO HOT WATER
                  NO AUTOMATIC DRYER!!
                  People will call you crazy and tell you that you will shrink your barracks coat ( great coat, blankets) and that you will burn in the firey depths of Hades. Simply not true. I have washed my greatcoat (and my WW2 uniform) many times and it still fits perfectly. Just be careful with it. During the first time that I ever washed the greatcoat, I looked at the wash water I was thoroughly disgusted that I washed it a second time.
                  According to re-enactor lore, that's why the barrackes coats were white. The more you washed them, the whiter they got.


                  Mark Dickerson









                  Woolen coats, waistcoats: dryclean and air out afterward






                  .


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • glifencible
                  ... I ve used Dryel on all of my wool with great success. (several times a season) If however you try it, use at your own risk... :P
                  Message 8 of 22 , Dec 4, 2006
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                    > Woolen coats, waistcoats: dryclean and air out afterward

                    I've used Dryel on all of my wool with great success. (several times a
                    season) If however you try it, use at your own risk... :P
                  • Dale Kidd
                    ... wrote: Wash them! Use cold water, gentle cycle, a little bit of Woolite, and allow the drip dry for a couple of days. Thanks for the tip, Mark. That
                    Message 9 of 22 , Dec 4, 2006
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                      --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Mark Dickerson" <mdickerson1@...>
                      wrote:
                      "Wash them! Use cold water, gentle cycle, a little bit of Woolite, and
                      allow the drip dry for a couple of days."


                      Thanks for the tip, Mark. That really ought to save me a fair bit on
                      dry cleaning bills! Although my pea coat is dark navy blue, and hides
                      the dirt well, it still ends up filthy and smelling like stale wood
                      smoke. Yech! I'm all in favour of anything that will allow me to
                      launder the darned thing a bit more frequently.

                      ~Dale
                    • Susan Spencer
                      And another shameless plug . . . Les Szabo of the Lion s Den will be my guest at the store in Hamilton (ON) for a Midwinter Musket Tuneup (rifles, etc., too!)
                      Message 10 of 22 , Dec 4, 2006
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                        And another shameless plug . . .

                        Les Szabo of the Lion's Den will be my guest at the store in Hamilton
                        (ON) for a Midwinter Musket Tuneup (rifles, etc., too!) on Saturday,
                        February 10th, 2007. Les will be onsite for the day with his tools at
                        the ready to fix what ails your gear, answer any questions, and
                        generally do what Les does. Everyone welcome -- there's no "cover
                        charge," just the cost of whatever gear and services Les provides.

                        As he says, better to do it then in a relaxed environment than in a rush
                        ten minutes before you have to be on the field . . .

                        For my part, I will ensure that there is a good supply of lemon
                        shortbread onsite that day as well so that the addicts can get their fix
                        . . .

                        Cheers,
                        -- Sioux
                      • philgarringer
                        And don t forget Ogdensburg, NY in February... ... By God ... General can
                        Message 11 of 22 , Dec 4, 2006
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                          And don't forget Ogdensburg, NY in February...


                          --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, JGIL1812@... wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          > In a message dated 12/4/2006 11:51:23 A.M. Pacific Standard Time,
                          > blongo@... writes:
                          >
                          > He will clean his musket and kit after he has used it
                          > > and it is ready to be used or stored.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > What's all this non sense about cleaning and storing your musket.
                          By God
                          > man... come and campaign at New Orleans in January. I am sure the
                          General can
                          > ensure that you are put to good use.
                          >
                          > JG/RE
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                        • larrylozon
                          Mark Dickerson wrote: I have tried dry cleaning my coats ...They tend to ruin the pewter buttons. Mark Remove your Pewter, Gold or Silver plated buttons
                          Message 12 of 22 , Dec 5, 2006
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                            "Mark Dickerson" wrote:

                            I have tried dry cleaning my coats ...They tend to ruin the pewter
                            buttons.




                            Mark

                            Remove your Pewter, Gold or Silver plated buttons from
                            your coat, vest and trousers

                            Send them to the Dry Cleaners

                            When they return

                            Remove them from the plastic

                            Sew on the buttons


                            Voila, les vĂȘtements sont comme nouveau!


                            Yrs.,
                            L2
                          • Mark Dickerson
                            But I found that dry cleaning did not remove all the sweat stains (as icky as that is) on my coat. Plus I am too lazy to remove all those buttons from my coat.
                            Message 13 of 22 , Dec 5, 2006
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                              But I found that dry cleaning did not remove all the sweat stains (as icky as that is) on my coat.
                              Plus I am too lazy to remove all those buttons from my coat. My washing machine is much simpler for lazy people like me.

                              Mark

                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: larrylozon
                              To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2006 11:47 AM
                              Subject: [WarOf1812] Dry Cleaning was Winter Storage of Equipment


                              "Mark Dickerson" wrote:

                              I have tried dry cleaning my coats ...They tend to ruin the pewter
                              buttons.

                              Mark

                              Remove your Pewter, Gold or Silver plated buttons from
                              your coat, vest and trousers

                              Send them to the Dry Cleaners

                              When they return

                              Remove them from the plastic

                              Sew on the buttons

                              Voila, les vĂȘtements sont comme nouveau!

                              Yrs.,
                              L2





                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • larrylozon
                              Mark Dickerson wrote: But I found that dry cleaning did not remove all the sweat stains ... Plus I am too lazy to remove all those buttons from my coat.
                              Message 14 of 22 , Dec 5, 2006
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                                "Mark Dickerson" wrote:

                                " But I found that dry cleaning did not remove all the sweat
                                stains ...
                                Plus I am too lazy to remove all those buttons from my coat. "



                                Mark

                                Use Deodorant and Gold Bond powder and those nasty seat stains won't
                                happen

                                Plus for the Lazy Officers, I do provide a "Button Cut Off and Sew
                                On Service

                                ... and am sure that the Good Doctor can afford it (2nd Mortgage!)

                                Yrs.,
                                L2
                              • Gordon Deans
                                Please forgive any duplicate emails that you might have received as my email provider seems to have resent everything from December 4th. Thanks to everyone for
                                Message 15 of 22 , Dec 6, 2006
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                                  Please forgive any duplicate emails that you might have received as
                                  my email provider seems to have resent everything from December 4th.

                                  Thanks to everyone for the valuable insights into preparing kit for
                                  winter storage. Some do, some don't, but experiences of those that do
                                  will save me some painful lessons. I did check the internet before
                                  asking but found conflicting advice (surprise!) so decided to ask our
                                  1812 period experts.

                                  Not everyone can drill through the winter and I commend those who do.

                                  Gord Deans, Gunner, Royal Navy,
                                  HMS Charwell Landing Party.

                                  P.S. I think that I will pass on the "sheep dip" from the co-op farm
                                  store being from the city.

                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: "Gordon Deans" <gord.deans@...>
                                  To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                                  Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 10:56 AM
                                  Subject: [WarOf1812] Winter Storage of Equipment


                                  With another successful Historic Merchants Gathering completed, the
                                  reenacting season is over for most of us until Longwoods 2007.

                                  Can anyone offer some tips as to the year-end cleaning and storage of
                                  equipment until Longwoods 2007? Muskets, bayonets, cutlasses, swords,
                                  leatherwork, etc.? Cleaning, oiling, polishing, etc.?

                                  Without being under the scrutiny of the public this time, it is
                                  possible to use the best of the modern products and techniques. What
                                  is recommended? What do you use?

                                  Gord Deans
                                • suthren@magma.ca
                                  So there ll be no snickering about Falklands War Brides, etc? Vic ... From: Gordon Deans To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 1:17
                                  Message 16 of 22 , Dec 6, 2006
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                                    So there'll be no snickering about Falklands War Brides, etc?

                                    Vic
                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: Gordon Deans
                                    To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                                    Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 1:17 PM
                                    Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Winter Storage of Equipment


                                    Please forgive any duplicate emails that you might have received as
                                    my email provider seems to have resent everything from December 4th.

                                    Thanks to everyone for the valuable insights into preparing kit for
                                    winter storage. Some do, some don't, but experiences of those that do
                                    will save me some painful lessons. I did check the internet before
                                    asking but found conflicting advice (surprise!) so decided to ask our
                                    1812 period experts.

                                    Not everyone can drill through the winter and I commend those who do.

                                    Gord Deans, Gunner, Royal Navy,
                                    HMS Charwell Landing Party.

                                    P.S. I think that I will pass on the "sheep dip" from the co-op farm
                                    store being from the city.

                                    ----- Original Message -----
                                    From: "Gordon Deans" <gord.deans@...>
                                    To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                                    Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 10:56 AM
                                    Subject: [WarOf1812] Winter Storage of Equipment

                                    With another successful Historic Merchants Gathering completed, the
                                    reenacting season is over for most of us until Longwoods 2007.

                                    Can anyone offer some tips as to the year-end cleaning and storage of
                                    equipment until Longwoods 2007? Muskets, bayonets, cutlasses, swords,
                                    leatherwork, etc.? Cleaning, oiling, polishing, etc.?

                                    Without being under the scrutiny of the public this time, it is
                                    possible to use the best of the modern products and techniques. What
                                    is recommended? What do you use?

                                    Gord Deans






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                                    No virus found in this incoming message.
                                    Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                                    Version: 7.0.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.6/567 - Release Date: 04/12/06


                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Gordon Deans
                                    Vic, To paraphrase an infamous SAS author - what happened in the Falklands should stay in the Falklands. NOW I know what he meant. Thanks. ... From:
                                    Message 17 of 22 , Dec 6, 2006
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                                      Vic,

                                      To paraphrase an infamous SAS author - what happened in the Falklands
                                      should stay in the Falklands. NOW I know what he meant.

                                      Thanks.

                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      From: <suthren@...>
                                      To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                                      Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 4:48 PM
                                      Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Winter Storage of Equipment


                                      So there'll be no snickering about Falklands War Brides, etc?

                                      Vic
                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      From: Gordon Deans
                                      To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                                      Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 1:17 PM
                                      Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Winter Storage of Equipment


                                      Please forgive any duplicate emails that you might have received as
                                      my email provider seems to have resent everything from December 4th.

                                      Thanks to everyone for the valuable insights into preparing kit for
                                      winter storage. Some do, some don't, but experiences of those that
                                      do
                                      will save me some painful lessons. I did check the internet before
                                      asking but found conflicting advice (surprise!) so decided to ask
                                      our
                                      1812 period experts.

                                      Not everyone can drill through the winter and I commend those who
                                      do.

                                      Gord Deans, Gunner, Royal Navy,
                                      HMS Charwell Landing Party.

                                      P.S. I think that I will pass on the "sheep dip" from the co-op farm
                                      store being from the city.

                                      ----- Original Message -----
                                      From: "Gordon Deans" <gord.deans@...>
                                      To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                                      Sent: Monday, December 04, 2006 10:56 AM
                                      Subject: [WarOf1812] Winter Storage of Equipment

                                      With another successful Historic Merchants Gathering completed, the
                                      reenacting season is over for most of us until Longwoods 2007.

                                      Can anyone offer some tips as to the year-end cleaning and storage
                                      of
                                      equipment until Longwoods 2007? Muskets, bayonets, cutlasses,
                                      swords,
                                      leatherwork, etc.? Cleaning, oiling, polishing, etc.?

                                      Without being under the scrutiny of the public this time, it is
                                      possible to use the best of the modern products and techniques. What
                                      is recommended? What do you use?

                                      Gord Deans






                                      ------------------------------------------------------------------------------


                                      No virus found in this incoming message.
                                      Checked by AVG Free Edition.
                                      Version: 7.0.409 / Virus Database: 268.15.6/567 - Release Date:
                                      04/12/06


                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



                                      The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of hundreds
                                      of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the fate of
                                      THOUSANDS of square miles...

                                      Unit Contact information for North America:
                                      Crown Forces Unit Listing:
                                      http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
                                      American Forces Unit Listing
                                      http://usforces1812.tripod.com

                                      WAR OF 1812 EVENTS LIST:
                                      http://royal.scots.tripod.com/warof1812eventslist
                                      Yahoo! Groups Links
                                    • Peter Catley
                                      Only for the Welsh Regiments I m told :-) If we re talking the Falklands, what about the helicopter sport of Penguin bowling:-) Cheers P**
                                      Message 18 of 22 , Dec 7, 2006
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                                        Only for the Welsh Regiments I'm told :-)

                                        If we're talking the Falklands, what about the helicopter sport of
                                        Penguin bowling:-)

                                        Cheers

                                        P**

                                        Gordon Deans wrote:
                                        >
                                        > Vic,
                                        >
                                        > To paraphrase an infamous SAS author - what happened in the Falklands
                                        > should stay in the Falklands. NOW I know what he meant.
                                        >
                                        > Thanks.
                                        >
                                        > ----- Original Message -----
                                        > From: <suthren@... <mailto:suthren%40magma.ca>>
                                        > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com <mailto:WarOf1812%40yahoogroups.com>>
                                        > Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 4:48 PM
                                        > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Winter Storage of Equipment
                                        >
                                        > So there'll be no snickering about Falklands War Brides, etc?
                                        >
                                        > Vic
                                        > ----- Original Message -----
                                        > From: Gordon Deans
                                        > To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com <mailto:WarOf1812%40yahoogroups.com>
                                        > Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 1:17 PM
                                        > -
                                        >
                                        > .
                                        >
                                        >
                                      • Gordon Deans
                                        Didn t the last time they tried that on South Georgia Island end up in a crash? Penguins 1, Royal Marines helicopter 0. {8^) ... From: Peter Catley
                                        Message 19 of 22 , Dec 7, 2006
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                                          Didn't the last time they tried that on South Georgia Island end up in
                                          a crash? Penguins 1, Royal Marines helicopter 0. {8^)

                                          ----- Original Message -----
                                          From: "Peter Catley" <peter.catley@...>
                                          To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
                                          Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 3:14 AM
                                          Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Winter Storage of Equipment


                                          Only for the Welsh Regiments I'm told :-)

                                          If we're talking the Falklands, what about the helicopter sport of
                                          Penguin bowling:-)

                                          Cheers

                                          P**

                                          Gordon Deans wrote:
                                          >
                                          > Vic,
                                          >
                                          > To paraphrase an infamous SAS author - what happened in the
                                          > Falklands
                                          > should stay in the Falklands. NOW I know what he meant.
                                          >
                                          > Thanks.
                                          >
                                          > ----- Original Message -----
                                          > From: <suthren@... <mailto:suthren%40magma.ca>>
                                          > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com <mailto:WarOf1812%40yahoogroups.com>>
                                          > Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 4:48 PM
                                          > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Winter Storage of Equipment
                                          >
                                          > So there'll be no snickering about Falklands War Brides, etc?
                                          >
                                          > Vic
                                        • Peter Catley
                                          I hadn t heard that, I hope it is true! Cheers P**
                                          Message 20 of 22 , Dec 7, 2006
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                                            I hadn't heard that, I hope it is true!

                                            Cheers

                                            P**

                                            Gordon Deans wrote:
                                            >
                                            > Didn't the last time they tried that on South Georgia Island end up in
                                            > a crash? Penguins 1, Royal Marines helicopter 0. {8^)
                                            >
                                            > ----- Original Message -----
                                            > From: "Peter Catley" <peter.catley@...
                                            > <mailto:peter.catley%40btinternet.com>>
                                            > To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com <mailto:WarOf1812%40yahoogroups.com>>
                                            > Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 3:14 AM
                                            > Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Winter Storage of Equipment
                                            >
                                            > Only for the Welsh Regiments I'm told :-)
                                            >
                                            > If we're talking the Falklands, what about the helicopter sport of
                                            > Penguin bowling:-)
                                            >
                                            > Cheers
                                            >
                                            > P**
                                            >
                                            > .
                                            >
                                            >
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