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Re: [WarOf1812] Coincidences of History

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  • Gordon Deans
    Roy, Sorry for the omission, but I was making a point regarding Scottish Regiments, not the Military Heritage Day. It was a pleasure to have your group fill
    Message 1 of 15 , Nov 5, 2006
      Roy,

      Sorry for the omission, but I was making a point regarding Scottish
      Regiments, not the Military Heritage Day.

      It was a pleasure to have your group fill out our 1812 ranks.

      Gord

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: "roy winders" <rangerroy50@...>
      To: <WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com>
      Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2006 7:21 AM
      Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Coincidences of History


      | Not to mention The British Indian Dept. eh!
      |
      |
      | ----- Original Message ----
      | From: Gordon Deans <gord.deans@...>
      | To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
      | Sent: Sunday, November 5, 2006 4:24:03 AM
      | Subject: [WarOf1812] Coincidences of History
      |
      | On Saturday, October 28th, 2006, the Light Company of the Royal
      Scots
      | Regiment [1812] along with the 41st Regiment [1812] and the HMS
      | Charwell Landing Party of [1812] were invited to the armouries in
      | Cambridge to participate in the Military Heritage Day for the Royal
      | Highland Fusiliers Regiment of Canada which currently has nine
      members
      | serving in Afghanistan.
      |
      | This regiment also has sixteen active and trained gunners / members
      in
      | the HMS Charwell Landing Party [1812] including one of the members
      who
      | are serving in Afghanistan.
      |
      | However, the coincidence is that the Royal Highland Fusiliers
      Regiment
      | of Canada has an equivalent ancestor regiment in the Royal Highland
      | Fusiliers Regiment of the United Kingdom. On March 28th, 2006, this
      | was one of the regiments that was combined with the Royal Scots
      | Regiment of the United Kingdom to form the new Royal Regiment of
      | Scotland. So the Royal Scots Regiment [1812] now has an official
      | connection with the Royal Highland Fusiliers Regiment of Canada
      | through the joining of their ancestor regiments.
      |
      | As always, the Royal Scots remained the first battalion and the
      Royal
      | Highland Fusiliers became the second battalion of The Royal Regiment
      | of Scotland. Four other regiments were also combined into The Royal
      | Regiment of Scotland as detailed below.
      |
      | http://www.regiment s.org/regiments/ uk/inf/001SCOTS. htm
      |
      | 2006.03.28 The Royal Regiment of Scotland
      |
      | formed by union of The Royal Scots, The Royal Highland Fusiliers,
      The
      | King's Own Scottish Borderers, The Black Watch, The Highlanders
      | (Seaforth, Gordons and Camerons), and The Argyll and Sutherland
      | Highlanders.
      |
      | - The Royal Scots Battalion RRS, redesignation of 1st Bn Royal Scots
      |
      | - The Royal Highland Fusiliers, 2nd Battalion RRS,
      |
      | redesignation of 1st Bn Royal Highland Fusiliers
      |
      | - The King's Own Scottish Borderers Battalion RRS,
      |
      | redesignation of 1st Bn King's Own Scottish Borderers
      |
      | - The Black Watch, 3rd Battalion RRS, redesignation of 1st Bn Black
      | Watch
      |
      | - The Highlanders, 4th Battalion RRS, redesignation of 1st Bn The
      | Highlanders
      |
      | - The Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders, 5th Battalion RRS,
      |
      | redesignation of 1st Bn Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders
      |
      | 2006.08.01 Royal Scots Bn and King's Own Scottish Borderers Bn
      | amalgamated to form The Royal Scots Borderers, 1st Battalion RRS.
      |
      | It also needs to be stated that the 41st Regiment [1812] has been
      very
      | active and supportive of members of the Royal Highland Fusiliers
      | Regiment of Canada becoming involved in 1812 reenacting although as
      | Royal Navy gunners and sailors. Expect to see a new unit called the
      | HMS Ferret Ship's Boat Crew take to the water in 2007.
      |
      | I wonder if they will be wearing kilts?
      |
      | Gord Deans, Royal Navy [1812],
      | HMS Charwell Landing Party.
      |
      |
      |
      |
      |
      |
      | [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      |
      |
      |
      | The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of
      hundreds of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the
      fate of THOUSANDS of square miles...
      |
      | Unit Contact information for North America:
      | Crown Forces Unit Listing:
      | http://1812crownforces.tripod.com
      | American Forces Unit Listing
      | http://usforces1812.tripod.com
      |
      | WAR OF 1812 EVENTS LIST:
      | http://royal.scots.tripod.com/warof1812eventslist
      | Yahoo! Groups Links
      |
      |
      |
    • roy winders
      Thanks Gord ... From: Gordon Deans To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, November 5, 2006 7:14:51 PM Subject: Re: [WarOf1812]
      Message 2 of 15 , Nov 6, 2006
        Thanks Gord


        ----- Original Message ----
        From: Gordon Deans <gord.deans@...>
        To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Sunday, November 5, 2006 7:14:51 PM
        Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Coincidences of History

        Roy,

        Sorry for the omission, but I was making a point regarding Scottish
        Regiments, not the Military Heritage Day.

        It was a pleasure to have your group fill out our 1812 ranks.

        Gord

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "roy winders" <rangerroy50@ yahoo.ca>
        To: <WarOf1812@yahoogrou ps.com>
        Sent: Sunday, November 05, 2006 7:21 AM
        Subject: Re: [WarOf1812] Coincidences of History

        | Not to mention The British Indian Dept. eh!
        |
        |
        | ----- Original Message ----
        | From: Gordon Deans <gord.deans@sympatic o.ca>
        | To: WarOf1812@yahoogrou ps.com
        | Sent: Sunday, November 5, 2006 4:24:03 AM
        | Subject: [WarOf1812] Coincidences of History
        |
        | On Saturday, October 28th, 2006, the Light Company of the Royal
        Scots
        | Regiment [1812] along with the 41st Regiment [1812] and the HMS
        | Charwell Landing Party of [1812] were invited to the armouries in
        | Cambridge to participate in the Military Heritage Day for the Royal
        | Highland Fusiliers Regiment of Canada which currently has nine
        members
        | serving in Afghanistan.
        |
        | This regiment also has sixteen active and trained gunners / members
        in
        | the HMS Charwell Landing Party [1812] including one of the members
        who
        | are serving in Afghanistan.
        |
        | However, the coincidence is that the Royal Highland Fusiliers
        Regiment
        | of Canada has an equivalent ancestor regiment in the Royal Highland
        | Fusiliers Regiment of the United Kingdom. On March 28th, 2006, this
        | was one of the regiments that was combined with the Royal Scots
        | Regiment of the United Kingdom to form the new Royal Regiment of
        | Scotland. So the Royal Scots Regiment [1812] now has an official
        | connection with the Royal Highland Fusiliers Regiment of Canada
        | through the joining of their ancestor regiments.
        |
        | As always, the Royal Scots remained the first battalion and the
        Royal
        | Highland Fusiliers became the second battalion of The Royal Regiment
        | of Scotland. Four other regiments were also combined into The Royal
        | Regiment of Scotland as detailed below.
        |
        | http://www.regiment s.org/regiments/ uk/inf/001SCOTS. htm
        |
        | 2006.03.28 The Royal Regiment of Scotland
        |
        | formed by union of The Royal Scots, The Royal Highland Fusiliers,
        The
        | King's Own Scottish Borderers, The Black Watch, The Highlanders
        | (Seaforth, Gordons and Camerons), and The Argyll and Sutherland
        | Highlanders.
        |
        | - The Royal Scots Battalion RRS, redesignation of 1st Bn Royal Scots
        |
        | - The Royal Highland Fusiliers, 2nd Battalion RRS,
        |
        | redesignation of 1st Bn Royal Highland Fusiliers
        |
        | - The King's Own Scottish Borderers Battalion RRS,
        |
        | redesignation of 1st Bn King's Own Scottish Borderers
        |
        | - The Black Watch, 3rd Battalion RRS, redesignation of 1st Bn Black
        | Watch
        |
        | - The Highlanders, 4th Battalion RRS, redesignation of 1st Bn The
        | Highlanders
        |
        | - The Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders, 5th Battalion RRS,
        |
        | redesignation of 1st Bn Argyll and Sutherland Highlanders
        |
        | 2006.08.01 Royal Scots Bn and King's Own Scottish Borderers Bn
        | amalgamated to form The Royal Scots Borderers, 1st Battalion RRS.
        |
        | It also needs to be stated that the 41st Regiment [1812] has been
        very
        | active and supportive of members of the Royal Highland Fusiliers
        | Regiment of Canada becoming involved in 1812 reenacting although as
        | Royal Navy gunners and sailors. Expect to see a new unit called the
        | HMS Ferret Ship's Boat Crew take to the water in 2007.
        |
        | I wonder if they will be wearing kilts?
        |
        | Gord Deans, Royal Navy [1812],
        | HMS Charwell Landing Party.
        |
        |
        |
        |
        |
        |
        | [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        |
        |
        |
        | The War of 1812: In Europe, thousands fought over the fate of
        hundreds of square miles: in North America, hundreds determined the
        fate of THOUSANDS of square miles...
        |
        | Unit Contact information for North America:
        | Crown Forces Unit Listing:
        | http://1812crownfor ces.tripod. com
        | American Forces Unit Listing
        | http://usforces1812 .tripod.com
        |
        | WAR OF 1812 EVENTS LIST:
        | http://royal. scots.tripod. com/warof1812eve ntslist
        | Yahoo! Groups Links
        |
        |
        |






        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • larrylozon
        Chris McKay writes: … they d be forced to wear a kilt I have been emailing an X-Colonel of the King s Regiment now UK Army Staff about the recent
        Message 3 of 15 , Nov 6, 2006
          Chris McKay" writes:

          "… they'd be forced to wear a kilt"





          I have been emailing an X-Colonel of the King's Regiment now UK Army
          Staff about the recent amalgamation of the King's Regiment to the
          Duke of Lancaster's Regiment

          The Duke of Lancaster's Regiment was formed from the King's Own
          Royal Border Regiment, the King's Regiment, and the Queen's
          Lancashire Regiment on 1st July 2006.

          I asked him about traditions and wanting to be in a certain Regiment.

          He said' "If a soldier is uncomfortable in a regiment he is always
          free to transfer"

          Yrs.,
          L2
        • larrylozon
          I am researching The British Indian Department Uniform (1810 - 1816) I am using HIS MAJESTY S INDIAN ALLIES British Indian Policy in The Defence Of Canada,
          Message 4 of 15 , Nov 6, 2006
            I am researching The British Indian Department Uniform (1810 - 1816)


            I am using

            HIS MAJESTY'S INDIAN ALLIES
            British Indian Policy in The Defence Of Canada, 1774-1815
            Robert S. Allen
            ISBN 1-55002-175-3

            -------------

            Fort Malden

            That has original documents and tail coats of British Indian
            Department Agents and Officers

            -------------------


            http://www.manitobachiefs.com/treaty/timeline.html

            1783 [Indian Officers' Land]


            "In 1783, a grant of land was made to officers of the British Indian
            Department. These officers, Alexander McKee, Matthew Elliott,
            William Caldwell, and Henry Bird ..."
            --------------

            Canadian and Ontario Archives


            That has original documents from The British Indian Department
            -------------

            Original Portraits such as:

            Uniform as shown in a portrait of William McKay (1816) and specified
            that McKay be shown in British Indian Department uniform

            "When founded (The British Indian Department ) Officers wore red
            tail coats with green collars and cuffs (much like the Army) later
            in the War of 1812 the coat changed to Blue facings ..."

            -----------

            http://www.ammsa.com/classroom/CLASS3Indianaffairs.html

            The History of Indian Affairs
            By Kenneth Williams
            Windspeaker Staff Writer
            Ottawa Canada

            "... In 1755, the British Crown established ... the British Indian
            Department, and, in 1860, the responsibility for Indian affairs was
            transferred from the government of Great Britain to the Province of
            Canada.

            INDIAN DEPARTMENT -- UPPER CANADA

            The following is a list of Canadian officers who participated with
            the British Forces for the INDIAN DEPARTMENT -- UPPER CANADA during
            the War of 1812 - 1815.


            1 Deputy Superintendent-General and Deputy Inspector-General
            Lt.-Colonel William Class, 2 July 1796

            2. ................

            ---------------

            to name a few sources ...


            If anyone knows of 'ORIGINAL' documentation on the British Indian
            Department uniform (1810 - 1816) please contact me off this Yahoo
            Group at: larrylozon (at) yahoo.ca


            Thanking you in advance

            Yrs.,
            L2
          • Richard Hardman
            Does anyone know where I can buy or borrow a copy of Robert Allen s book, The British Indian Department and the Frontier in the North? Richard Hardman British
            Message 5 of 15 , Jan 28 5:08 PM
              Does anyone know where I can buy or borrow a copy of Robert Allen's
              book, The British Indian Department and the Frontier in the North?

              Richard Hardman
              British Indian Department
            • ronaldjdale@netscape.net
              There is an off chance that it is still available from the Queen s Printer in Ottawa or at the Government bookstore in Toronto. I have a copy at work and will
              Message 6 of 15 , Jan 28 7:12 PM
                There is an off chance that it is still available from the Queen's Printer in Ottawa or at the Government bookstore in Toronto.



                I have a copy at work and will look up the ISBN number for you.



                Ron


                -----Original Message-----
                From: Richard Hardman <shelldrake@...>
                To: WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com
                Sent: Mon, 28 Jan 2008 8:08 pm
                Subject: [War Of 1812] The British Indian Department







                Does anyone know where I can buy or borrow a copy of Robert Allen's
                book, The British Indian Department and the Frontier in the North?

                Richard Hardman
                British Indian Department





                ________________________________________________________________________
                More new features than ever. Check out the new AIM(R) Mail ! - http://webmail.aim.com


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • ronaldjdale@netscape.net
                Hello Richard, There are two studies, one based on the other.  You can still get the Dundurn Press book at Chapters etc. Ron Allen, Robert S. “The British
                Message 7 of 15 , Jan 29 7:35 AM
                  Hello Richard,



                  There are two studies, one based on the other.  You can still get the Dundurn Press book at Chapters etc.



                  Ron



                  Allen, Robert S. “The British Indian Department and the Frontier in North America, 1755-1830.” Canadian Historic Sites: Occasional Papers in Archaeology and History/Lieux historiques canadiens: Cahiers d’archéologies et d’histoire. No. 14. Indian and Northern Affairs Canada, 1975.

                   

                   

                  His Majesty's Indian Allies - British Indian Policy in the Defence of Canada 1774-1815

                  Price: $34.99
                  ISBN13: 9781550021844


                  Publisher:  Dundurn Press

                   

                   

                   





                  ________________________________________________________________________
                  More new features than ever. Check out the new AIM(R) Mail ! - http://webmail.aim.com


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • John
                  ... Hi Richard: Where do you hail from. Most libraries should carry it in Ontario. Cheers John MacLeod
                  Message 8 of 15 , Jan 30 11:56 AM
                    --- In WarOf1812@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Hardman" <shelldrake@...>
                    wrote:
                    >
                    > Does anyone know where I can buy or borrow a copy of Robert Allen's
                    > book, The British Indian Department and the Frontier in the North?
                    >
                    > Richard Hardman
                    > British Indian Department
                    >

                    Hi Richard:

                    Where do you hail from. Most libraries should carry it in Ontario.

                    Cheers John MacLeod
                  • Larry Lozon
                    May I also suggest His Majesty s Indian Allies British Indian policy in the defence of Canada, 1774-1815 by Robert S. Allen Dundurn Press, c1993, 1992 or
                    Message 9 of 15 , Jan 30 12:14 PM
                      May I also suggest


                      " His Majesty's Indian Allies"
                      British Indian policy in the defence of Canada, 1774-1815
                      by Robert S. Allen Dundurn Press, c1993, 1992

                      or is this the book you seek?

                      Yrs.,
                      L2



                      --- "Richard Hardman" wrote:

                      Does anyone know where I can buy or borrow a copy of Robert Allen's
                      book, The British Indian Department and the Frontier in the North?
                    • Larry Lozon
                      Kitchener s lPublick Library has it If you live in Ontario an `Inter Library Loan is available Yrs., L2 PS: Good to hear from you Brother John way out there
                      Message 10 of 15 , Jan 30 12:24 PM
                        Kitchener's lPublick Library has it

                        If you live in Ontario an `Inter Library Loan' is available


                        Yrs.,
                        L2

                        PS: Good to hear from you Brother John way out there in the Western
                        District
                        Another good book: "The Western District" ISBN 0-9691611-2-3



                        --- "John" wrote:

                        Hi Richard:

                        Where do you hail from.
                        Most libraries should carry it in Ontario.

                        Cheers John MacLeod>
                      • RICHARD HARDMAN
                        Thanks to all who helped. I will follow-up on all threads and let you know how I made out. Thanks again Larry Lozon wrote: Kitchener s
                        Message 11 of 15 , Jan 30 4:20 PM
                          Thanks to all who helped. I will follow-up on all threads and let you know how I made out.

                          Thanks again

                          Larry Lozon <larrylozon@...> wrote:

                          Kitchener's lPublick Library has it

                          If you live in Ontario an `Inter Library Loan' is available

                          Yrs.,
                          L2

                          PS: Good to hear from you Brother John way out there in the Western
                          District
                          Another good book: "The Western District" ISBN 0-9691611-2-3

                          --- "John" wrote:

                          Hi Richard:

                          Where do you hail from.
                          Most libraries should carry it in Ontario.

                          Cheers John MacLeod>






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